The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: TornadoTwist on October 01, 2018, 02:10:09 PM
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So... after months of gathering data. Collecting images and even taken pictures of my ponies. After weeks of getting up earlier to work (6AM yeah!) on the site and sacrifising school-time. I can finally present to you guys:
MLPMerch.com has now databases of all the generations!
https://data.mlpmerch.com/
Since our book will be released in about 2 weeks, and since the book is about the older gens as well. We made the decission so start fully developing the older generations databases to that all would be finished when the book will be released.
Especially the G1 US/Regular section should be quite complete now. We've created a search by characteristics page to ID your G1 (non-Nirvana) Ponies quickly. (I hope :p)
https://data.mlpmerch.com/g1/characteristics/
We've also added a highly-requested feature: You can now add notes to ponies. So if you want to write down where you got it, the condition it's in or which accesories you have/want. You can now do so by clicking on the speech-bubble icon under the pony.
But sadly we're not yet completely finished. You have the abbility to add all the ponies to your list. But some features and collections are yet missing. Below is a small list of things we hope to fix within 2 weeks:
- Adding a search for characteristics page for G2, G3 and G3.5 (and adding ID options)
- Fixing some of the icons who are still from the G4 section
- Release the Ponyville Database
- Adding more images of missing ponies.
- Fixing errors/bug if found
Things that will be also added asap but not within 2 weeks:
- G1 Petites
- Dream Beauties
- G1 Other Figures
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Sadly we're also still missing a lot of images... especially of G1 Nirvana's and the European G2's. You're free to send missing images to us and you'll get credit on page of the specific pony: https://data.mlpmerch.com/g1/details/g1tep2lo/ And at the bottom of the Database page with a link if desired.
So yeah... feel free to report any errors and mistakes and tips are welcome as well. I'm so happy we could finally release these as they have been requested for quite some years. :D
For a more detailed guide feel free to visit our blogpost:
https://www.mlpmerch.com/2018/10/mlp-merch-launches-all-generation.html
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Wow! It’s looking pretty good 😄. I also love your new banner ❤️
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Wow! It’s looking pretty good 😄. I also love your new banner ❤️
Thank you! I was inspired by those new gradient graphics you see online a lot. ^^
The first donated images are also a fact! It's fun filling all the missing items.
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Yay, my donations got featured! It's too bad I don't have more of the missing G2s.
Are Euro G1s in as Nirvana, or just not in yet? I didn't notice Tutti Frutti when I was adding my ponies.
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Yay, my donations got featured! It's too bad I don't have more of the missing G2s.
Are Euro G1s in as Nirvana, or just not in yet? I didn't notice Tutti Frutti when I was adding my ponies.
Tutti Frutti is under the Europe & UK Nirvana Section. :)
https://data.mlpmerch.com/g1-nirvana/set/uk-&-europe/playset-ponies/
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The birthflower G3 page doesn't work: https://data.mlpmerch.com/g3/series/2006/birthday/birthflower-ponies/
Edit - Also the blue Cute Curtsey shown on this page was never released, IIRC: https://data.mlpmerch.com/g3/series/2006/carriage-ponies/
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One more question!
Are the venezeulan ponies the squeaky butts? if so, i can donate another pic.
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One more question!
Are the venezeulan ponies the squeaky butts? if so, i can donate another pic.
Because there are sooo many variants of some ponies I decided to only list one of each pony. I'll add any variant sent to us so yeah, feel free to send the squeaky butts. :D
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As much as I love the G4 site, (it is my go to G4 site) I'm never going to use this for G1 because of the system. It just doesn't work for collecting outside of the US, unless you want to force your collection into the US system (which I don't). I don't want you to get rid of the US system, I would just like to see more integration of ponies.
It's a practical point of organisation which affects a lot of non-US collectors and completely bewilders new collectors coming in from outside of the US.
I used the example in another thread, but if you had Cherries Jubilee and Snowflake as a kid and you got them at the same time from the same store, it's pretty confusing to try to find them on a site using that system, because you'll get Cherries Jubilee in 1985 and Snowflake on some other planet.
The overreliance on the US system is a general bugbear of mine, I admit. BUT with your site especially I think it's important. You might have people coming in new from G4 to G1 and they might have a bunch of ponies they also want to ID at the same time. If they know your site, they are going to want to rely on it because they're familiar with it. It could also be someone cataloguing their childhood ponies. And unless you know a pony is international, how are you going to know? If that makes sense.
Ultimately it's up to you, but I feel like we shouldn't be segregating mainstream store ponies just on the basis they weren't sold in America. They're not Nirvana ponies :/ they belong with the mainstream.
On a detail note, I think both your pictured Tutti Frutti ponies are from the UK. But it's hard to see their streaks from the picture.
Also, not the NBBE and NSS terms. Please :cry:
I also noticed that what you have put together as "NSS" are actually ponies from three separate sets issued in different parts of Europe/the world at different times. It would be more helpful for people who have those ponies (many of whom will be outside the US) for them to be listed in their actual sets and years, under their actual set names.
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I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
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I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
I liked it!
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Looks amazing!
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Hi all, Ossie here, co-author of MLP Merch and developer of the recent update.
The birthflower G3 page doesn't work: https://data.mlpmerch.com/g3/series/2006/birthday/birthflower-ponies/
Edit - Also the blue Cute Curtsey shown on this page was never released, IIRC: https://data.mlpmerch.com/g3/series/2006/carriage-ponies/
Thanks for pointing this out! The link to the birthflower ponies should work now, and clarified that Cute Curtsey is a prototype.
As much as I love the G4 site, (it is my go to G4 site) I'm never going to use this for G1 because of the system. It just doesn't work for collecting outside of the US, unless you want to force your collection into the US system (which I don't). I don't want you to get rid of the US system, I would just like to see more integration of ponies.
It's a practical point of organisation which affects a lot of non-US collectors and completely bewilders new collectors coming in from outside of the US.
I used the example in another thread, but if you had Cherries Jubilee and Snowflake as a kid and you got them at the same time from the same store, it's pretty confusing to try to find them on a site using that system, because you'll get Cherries Jubilee in 1985 and Snowflake on some other planet.
The overreliance on the US system is a general bugbear of mine, I admit. BUT with your site especially I think it's important. You might have people coming in new from G4 to G1 and they might have a bunch of ponies they also want to ID at the same time. If they know your site, they are going to want to rely on it because they're familiar with it. It could also be someone cataloguing their childhood ponies. And unless you know a pony is international, how are you going to know? If that makes sense.
Ultimately it's up to you, but I feel like we shouldn't be segregating mainstream store ponies just on the basis they weren't sold in America. They're not Nirvana ponies :/ they belong with the mainstream.
On a detail note, I think both your pictured Tutti Frutti ponies are from the UK. But it's hard to see their streaks from the picture.
Also, not the NBBE and NSS terms. Please :cry:
I also noticed that what you have put together as "NSS" are actually ponies from three separate sets issued in different parts of Europe/the world at different times. It would be more helpful for people who have those ponies (many of whom will be outside the US) for them to be listed in their actual sets and years, under their actual set names.
The choice to split the nirvana/non-US releases was made a while ago, and I understand the concern that you have with it. We'll keep our ears open for feedback like this, and if commonly heard, re-evaluate if we can create a combined G1 database (we initially had some technical challenges for this).
Regarding the other points, we'll check these errors soon, thanks for checking!
I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
I'm not aware of anything negative around that word :huh:
Looks amazing!
Thanks! ^.^
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I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
I liked it!
Everyone has their own opinion but The word gimmick is more used in my experience for selling/advertising. Or, you'd say something like: we need a gimmick to sell this product, etc.
In laymen terms, It also tends to mean something that cannot sell on it's own so it needs some sort of deception or distraction to sell.
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I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
I liked it!
Everyone has their own opinion but The word gimmick is more used in my experience for selling/advertising. Or, you'd say something like: we need a gimmick to sell this product, etc.
In laymen terms, It also tends to mean something that cannot sell on it's own so it needs some sort of deception or distraction to sell.
Thanks for clarifying, this is something that I personally underestimated as a non-native English speaker. I think 'feature' would be a better alternative? Will change this soon :)
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I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
I'm not aware of anything negative around that word :huh:
As far as MLP goes then I've seen mainly G4 fans use this word in a negative way to describe anything that came before G4. As in I've had comments/replies like: the only way G1 sold ponies was because it had so many gimmicks. I've had these kind of statements directed at me multiple times by G4 fans when discussing G1 or as I pointed out anything pre-g4.
So, it's one reason, but the general use of the word implies marketing/advertising to sell a product, etc. I don't know in terms of collecting if its a word others use a lot or if other collecting communities use this in their general lingo when describing their collection.
Anyway, I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, I'm just pointing out something that I've experienced but also a word I've never really used when describing my collection. I don't generally call my collection gimmicky or a gimmick :/
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I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
I liked it!
Everyone has their own opinion but The word gimmick is more used in my experience for selling/advertising. Or, you'd say something like: we need a gimmick to sell this product, etc.
In laymen terms, It also tends to mean something that cannot sell on it's own so it needs some sort of deception or distraction to sell.
Thanks for clarifying, this is something that I personally underestimated as a non-native English speaker. I think 'feature' would be a better alternative? Will change this soon :)
TBH, you aren't wrong though. They are gimmicks, and I've never found that term to be negative.
Anyway, I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, I'm just pointing out something that I've experienced but also a word I've never really used when describing my collection. I don't generally call my collection gimmicky or a gimmick :/
See. I do.
Ballerina ponies, flutter wings, glow in the dark details. All of these gimmicks.
And I've always embraced it :/ so it's an to each their own.
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I have an initial reaction to something: the word Gimmick.
I don't particularly like this word, especially when speaking as a collector. And I've generally seen it used in a negative mindset where collecting is concerned. So that's one thing I see that kind of made me cringe.
I liked it!
Everyone has their own opinion but The word gimmick is more used in my experience for selling/advertising. Or, you'd say something like: we need a gimmick to sell this product, etc.
In laymen terms, It also tends to mean something that cannot sell on it's own so it needs some sort of deception or distraction to sell.
Thanks for clarifying, this is something that I personally underestimated as a non-native English speaker. I think 'feature' would be a better alternative? Will change this soon :)
I'm not trying to make you change anything if you feel comfortable with the word, it's not the end of the world. I've just seen it used in a negative way when directed at collecting and have had it directed at me as a collector.
I don't know what we use traditionally when talking about aspects of ponies traits.
I'd say sets, but then that would be confusing as not all Twice as fancy ponies are in the same 'set'. Features or feature might be okay. I'd have to think about it.
Interestingly, I just did a google look up of other words for Gimmick and FlimFlam is a synonym (LOL)
Synonyms of gimmick
artifice, device, dodge, fetch, flimflam, gambit, jig, juggle, knack, play, ploy, ruse, scheme, shenanigan, sleight, stratagem, trick, wile
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I don't know what we use traditionally when talking about aspects of ponies
Pre-G4 this forum still used the word gimmick.
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I use MLPmerch a lot for G4, and I like your website design :) I can understand that you worked long hours on this, and what I saw of the G1 section on US releases it looks great. However, I have to agree with Taffeta on the G1 section called “nirvana”, though (maybe not a big surprise :P).
I’m not sure where you got your information on G1 releases outside the US, but just by a brief look through it I spotted quite a lot of wrong information. I’m also confused of the structure as some of the ponies are put into what is their “official” set name, and others have been put into sets with names that I have never seen or heard of before? Even though they do have official set names. I am confused because when I look at the US releases they are sorted after sets correctly, but the “nirvanas” are a mix and match between sets and gimmicks. I think it could be a good idea to double-check your sources for the information you have used in this section :)
I know that the pony releases outside of the US is messy and difficult. I’ve spent over 10 years understanding a very small portion of those releases. I know of other collectors who have spent much more time doing the same. And we know so much more now thanks to all those who spent hour after hour searching for information. I’ve spent MANY hours on this myself- researching especially the releases in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. Many of those hours were spent looking through faulty information. Information that is wrong, but is still sitting on the web and being used as something that is true. Due to this I am cautious on where I go to find information on anything MLP that is not a US release. Unfortunately, your “nirvana” section has too many issues with the information as it is today. I will not use it due to that.
However, I will definitely still use your G4 section and probably also your G1 site for US releases :)
Oh, and by the way; I use the word gimmick to describe ponies too ;) In a positive way :P
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Feature does sound a bit more respectable than gimmick, I'm just used to saying "gimmick".
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@Ossie -thank you for taking that on board.
I have no idea about the technicalities of this, or what is and isn't possible.
I am going to ask though why some of the International ponies are listed under years (Mountain Boys for example) and others not. I may be totally misunderstanding the tech, but is it harder to move the International ponies to the main database and leave Nirvana to Nirvana? Because basically you have them in 2 databases, right? And so you'd just be shifting one set of data to the other.
I think the problem may be that the US system doesn't really make adding ponies from outside easy. I mean, there are extra years to incorporate and then there are different release timelines and stuff. And I can't work out if you are or are not including variations, because some are there (Buttons, Tutti Frutti) and some not (UK Cherries Jubilee). But if you did away with the 'year' label and just had 1982-3, 1983-4 etc, would that not work? At least as an approximation?
I can give specific details if need be, but the NSS category is horrible. It's like looking at a website classification from 15 years ago; not one from 2018. We're working really hard over here to get rid of that term anyway, as it's not productive. But yeah. Paradise doesn't actually exist in that form, and the Posey you reference is actually the one you have pictured for year 3. There's a lot of stuff that isn't quite...right in the INternational section and its organisation. I take that bit seriously because it's so hard to get rid of bad information once it's up online and in circulation. I think the fact you have some of these errors proves that, because some online sites still have bad information about sets and years and ponies.
I'm sorry if I seem pedantic about these details, but in a pony sense I've spent the last 2 decades researching and trying to correct information online about the international releases. And it's frustrating for me to see the same errors or new ones repeated across new sites or updates when much more information is available to make a better and more accurate resource.
And whatever system you use, I think it's fair to ask you to include correct pony information for all sets, not just the ones in the US.
*gives Katrine cookies* you posted as I was writing this :)
Gonna let the Nirvana people deal with the Nirvana/International thing, but there's been a ton of stuff in discussion on the Nirvana forum over what is and isn't a Nirvana, so I suspect they might have comments to make on that as well.
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Feature does sound a bit more respectable than gimmick, I'm just used to saying "gimmick".
Just sayin'
I think I've used gimmick to describe how a pony is sold, I don't know if I would call my twice as fancy ponies a gimmick :p. I mean I get why it might be easy to use that word but I don't know, it just feels a bit off.
Maybe I'm just stubborn or being confusing, but as you point out, it sort of feels more like the word isn't what you'd use as a ID site term. It's more like a conversation word or even...hum, it's more the 'how' not the 'what' of the pony.
That's probably even more confusing,
anyway, I said I'm not trying to be a jerk, but maybe I am it's more I was trying to be helpful. I don't know that I've ever seen another collector ID site call their ponies 'gimmick' to explain the ponies style :p But I could be wrong on that, but whatever makes people happy.
I just feel like there must be a better word than gimmick :)
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I like it :) I only collect G1 so didn't have an account before, but I have created an account and filled in who I have :) I admit it was tricky sometimes from a UK standpoint but everything is a work in progress and you have done a fab job so far! Now how do I get a cool signature thing like yours :lol: :lol:
Edit: I figured it out!
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*gives Katrine cookies* you posted as I was writing this :)
Cookies!! *grabs them all and eats them insanely fast* :yummy:
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Personally I do think of Brush 'n Grows, color-changing, drink 'n wet, twirling tails, etc, as gimmicks. "Feature" does sound a bit more respectable, but "gimmick" is more honest IMO.
At the end of the day I don't really care which word is used, though.
I don't know what we use traditionally when talking about aspects of ponies
Gimmick.
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Personally I do think of Brush 'n Grows, color-changing, drink 'n wet, twirling tails, etc, as gimmicks. "Feature" does sound a bit more respectable, but "gimmick" is more honest IMO.
At the end of the day I don't really care which word is used, though.
I don't know what we use traditionally when talking about aspects of ponies
Gimmick.
This is getting so hardcore on the vocab. I have to admit when someone says Gimmick I think of the Jem/Misfits music video Gimme a Gimmick. I kind of don't think of it as a positive term either.
Theme? Feature? Concept? I think I'd be more likely to use that than gimmick personally.
But I can live with gimmick if the information is made correct.
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Theme / concept would work for things like the Rainbow ponies, but not things like "my tail twirls when you twist my knob" or "my tail twirls when you squeeze my stomach" IMO. (Hasbro loves spinning tails, lol.) "Concept" suggests something abstract to me? Like, an artistic concept. Or else someone having a "concept" for a toy they haven't made yet. I don't think it fits in well with the "ponies that DO things" set.
Maybe action feature?
But I will say I don't think "gimmick" needs to be viewed as a pejorative. Transformers are based on a gimmick: they convert from vehicle to robot. It's totally a gimmick. A great gimmick. (Once it became commonplace in TF, Hasbro made a line of "Action Masters" whose gimmick was . . . they DIDN'T transform. :P )
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Theme / concept would work for things like the Rainbow ponies, but not things like "my tail twirls when you twist my knob" or "my tail twirls when you squeeze my stomach" IMO. (Hasbro loves spinning tails, lol.) "Concept" suggests something abstract to me? Like, an artistic concept. Or else someone having a "concept" for a toy they haven't made yet. I don't think it fits in well with the "ponies that DO things" set.
Maybe action feature?
But I will say I don't think "gimmick" needs to be viewed as a pejorative. Transformers are based on a gimmick: they convert from vehicle to robot. It's totally a gimmick. A great gimmick. (Once it became commonplace in TF, Hasbro made a line of "Action Masters" whose gimmick was . . . they DIDN'T transform. :P )
Theme would still work for all of them. Considering it would be a theme. Just because your tale swings and swishes back and forth doesn't mean it's not the 'theme' of the set you are in. Theme would cover a majority of it I think.
Gimmick IMO just makes it sound cheap.
Besides, I proved many years ago MLP was superior to Transformer toys by smashing my cousins toy robots. Yea, I was proving a point. (Apparently I have a theme as well) So I don't feel like subjugating my ponies to transformerland's gimmicks.
And this might sound like it's coming from someone who doesn't like transformers but I do (I own a few actually), but for science purposes some transformers and GIJoe had to die to answer the question which toy was stronger and better: MLP, Transformers or GIJoe. So we were the original mythbusters back in the day.
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Concrete errors in terms of the Nirvana Ponies (with proof), missing info like release years etc can all be PM'ed to me. I want to fix it I promise. But I can't do it in one day. :P
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Concrete errors in terms of the Nirvana Ponies (with proof), missing info like release years etc can all be PM'ed to me. I want to fix it I promise. But I can't do it in one day. :P
It’s great that you want to fix it, it really is! But I have to point out that I strongly feel that the responsibility for correct info on your page is yourself, including ensuring as correct information as possible. Of course I can email you with what I know(and I am sure others want to as well), but to be honest- your site is very flawed in this section that it is a lot of work. Just by using the name «nirvana» for the section is one major flaw in my opinion. It is grey areas with this term of course, but others again are very clear. Gypsy and all of her set for instance have never been nirvanas... The issue with your site isn’t concrete errors, such as incorrect years of release (although you have those errors as well). That is a quick fix. The issue as I see it is with the structure of section. That is not a quick fix.
You are asking for proof sent with the information, and that is great- but it raises the question I asked earlier; what is your current source of information for this section? Is all the information on there already proof-checked? Since you are asking for proof for new information, it seems like it is and to be honest that worries me even more....
I understand that you can’t do it in one day, it is an overwhelming task you’ve started. If I were you I would have taken the «nirvana» section down for now and put it up after you’ve worked on it some more. Especially if you are unsure of your source. I would think it isn’t a goal in itself to have all ponies on there, if it is not correct?
I’m sorry if I seem harsh. I don’t mean to be. Like I said in my other post, I really like your site for G4 and I am amazed at what you’ve been able to do :)
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Concrete errors in terms of the Nirvana Ponies (with proof), missing info like release years etc can all be PM'ed to me. I want to fix it I promise. But I can't do it in one day. :P
@Katrine, I'm glad you posted, because hopefully that means what I post will be less annoyed. I won't make any apologies though if I am harsh - because basically this is trampling on what I've spent 20 years trying to sort out, and that upsets me.
@TornadoTwist
If you run a website, responsibility for researching information and providing correct intel is yours. Not anyone else's. You run a great G4 site, so I imagine you are well aware of that responsibility.
G1 is not G4. Things are different because there are so many global variations that G4 doesn't have. You also don't have an immediate what's out now and on store shelves aspect. You are dealing with history. That makes it more work and harder to do properly.
The proof demand bothers me. You clearly haven't used validated source material thus far because otherwise you wouldn't have imaginary Paradise on your site. It's a bit off to tell us to prove things when you haven't checked proof with the stuff you already have.
As for proof, my sig contains the link to my website. I may not be the sophisticated web designer you guys are, but I do have time on my side. That site has been there in one form or another for 20 years. That's longer than the Arena. Longer than Nirvana ponies. Longer than any other existing ID site. It was set up to prove the differences in UK release from the US, back in 1998. It is full of backcards, leaflets, advertising, hasbro intel, etc. There is your proof. My frustration is that people expect me to also fix their websites for them as well as run my own. I'm not going to do that. My site is there as a resource. I suggest maybe using it.
This is 2018. We've moved beyond the time period when it was ok to just cobble together international ponies any old way and hope for the best. People actually expect correct information now. Meeting that expectation is your responsibility if you want to run a G1 database on your site. It's just common sense that you do the research to ensure your information is right before you go live. You wouldn't do any different with G4, so it makes no sense to drop your standards for G1.
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Feature makes more sense then theme. Theme really isn't the right word at all.
But as I said. The community has used the word gimmick for g1s (way before G4s). So why not use the word that's been used in the community for a long time? personally think it's cute rather than negative .. but that I can admit is personal.
The fact of the matter is smelly 3D symbols, tails that grow, and wings that flap when you press a button ARE gimmicks. That I *will* argue about.
And what's negative about those things? Nothing.
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Feature makes more sense then theme. Theme really isn't the right word at all.
But as I said. The community has used the word gimmick for g1s (way before G4s). So why not use the word that's been used in the community for a long time? personally think it's cute rather than negative .. but that I can admit is personal.
The fact of the matter is smelly 3D symbols, tails that grow, and wings that flap when you press a button ARE gimmicks. That I *will* argue about.
And what's negative about those things? Nothing.
Okay so at this point it's kind of obvious that it's just disagreeing to disagree. I'm not the pony police who is gonna give out a ticket but my opinion stands on how I feel about using the word gimmick on a collecting ID site. You can either accept what I think as valid for me. You clearly think Theme is bad, but I have more of a feeling it's because I suggested/liked it, at the end of the day I really can Rett Butler whatever word is used.
If I have to choose what is more important in this discussion, I think a site giving out incorrect information is way more of a problem than my minor discomfort and dislike of a word.
As far as incorrect unvalidated information being presented as fact, I'm pretty tired of the 'usual' train these discussions take. Because I've seen it go on since 1997. I think the issue with insisting a long time collectors outside the usa needs to 'prove' their info is a bit much.
Ponypeople like Taffeta have been in the online community for a long time. Longer in fact than I have.
If people want to know who I went to back in the day (and even to this day) when I didn't know or was unsure on something, Taffeta was one of the collectors I would ask to help verify information.
I think from the beginning a lot of us have been frustrated with incorrect info where MLP collecting is concerned. You can even go back to dream valley, one of the original collecting sites that everyone always used; which was good for USA info but kind of shaky on international stuff. The internet was new and some stuff was seriously unknown. But because it was there on a well known site, some stuff was accepted as fact even when collectors outside the USA complained.
But in a lot of ways instead of trusting the people outside the USA, there have been situations where the USA collecting community would just brushed aside or flat out ignored what international pony people tell USA folks. Well it must be right, dream valley has it on there site. Etc, Etc.
I think it's gotten better but obviously from what I'm reading on here, there clearly seems be wrong information still being presented as fact and the only reply comes in as 'prove it'.
It's the same mentality, even with years in the collecting community I would never flat out tell a collector like Taffeta to 'prove it'. I mean I know what's going to happen, she more than likely will, especially if over the years that collector presented facts and info that line up with other collectors outside the usa.
I personally know USA ponies, just like most USA collectors do. It's pretty easy if you grew up in it. I think a lot of people would agree that most of the sites are setup revolving around USA release. And some stuff is made on assumption because someone else had it on their site, or book, or whatever.
But collectors like Taffeta grew up outside the USA, and have been as involved as most of us in MLP back then. So I think there is a pretty good chance that if she's telling you something is incorrect about MLP then my natural instinct is to go with her on it, because she's one of the pony collectors I trust in terms of giving out correct info about MLP and not just repeating stuff because it was on someones website or book or whatever.
Anyway, I don't like the whole 'prove it' mentality. I'd more rather let me check my sorces and ask for collaboration from those people who would know the subject.
And I get it, that's a difficult thing to do, especially if people are not as familar with the community of collectors or who is a long time collector, or who gives out correct info.
But I can vouch for Taffeta being a upstanding long time member of the MLP community who wants to have the correct info out there. If you feel strongly about MLP and having the correct info, I'd say talk to collectors like her. For some collectors it's more about having the right info out there, opposed to just having credit for the info.
So if ya wanna keep arguing about a word, but I'd rather the info be right and call it a kurfuffle pony than the site have misleading or incorrect information.
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Feature makes more sense then theme. Theme really isn't the right word at all.
But as I said. The community has used the word gimmick for g1s (way before G4s). So why not use the word that's been used in the community for a long time? personally think it's cute rather than negative .. but that I can admit is personal.
The fact of the matter is smelly 3D symbols, tails that grow, and wings that flap when you press a button ARE gimmicks. That I *will* argue about.
And what's negative about those things? Nothing.
Okay so at this point it's kind of obvious that it's just disagreeing to disagree
I am not trying to disagree O.o here I like the word gimmick (my opinion) but trying to give feed back on an alternative word because you dislike it (your opinion)
but I can separate my like from the issue. But I was saying if an alternative work was used, "feature" works. Which btw, you suggested it so please just stop thinking I'm arguing. I can't argue someone's opinion.
But I don't see how real flapping wings AREN'T a gimmick.
"Features real flapping flutter wings".
"Theme of real flapping flutter wings"
ETA, I see now you didn't suggest it, I read it in your post that you were thinking about it. So ignore that. But my point was I was trying to be open
Heck, you didn't even suggest theme...
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@katrine2309 / @Taffeta, our apologies if things got wrong worded, please allow me to rephrase.
The nirvana database, at the moment, is not the right name for all ponies in there, we understand. It's our goal to get good documentation and it appears that not all sources that we used were correct. The current release is our first release, and we had a bit of thought before putting in out, exactly for the reasons that were mentioned. Yet we decided to put it online, and I'm glad that this discussion got started, as it will help us approach the 'nirvana' in a better and correct way.
As you mentioned G1 is not G4, and I can't agree more! We have immense respect for those who had the time to investigate the history of local releases (let's avoid nirvana for now) and would like to get in contact with those people. To get the first release out we mainly relied on public sources (and this appears to not be the best approach) and are happy to get signals from you all on improvements. I'm happy to hear that you're willing to help (and we'll definitely take a look at the UK Scrapbook), but we understand that it's not just fixing a few names. Structural changes are needed, and we fully accept that, as our end goal is to get a complete and error-free database.
Regarding the proof, I think it's better to call this 'credibility'. We'd like to prevent to get even more stuff wrong and prefer contact from sources that have already been accepted by the community. No need for certificates in pony-science ;)
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Unicorn :hug: thank you :D
If I cared about making money out of my research I'd have written a book about MLP in the UK a long time ago. I care more about people getting and transmitting correct information.
It matters how long ago I began with this only because in 1998, MLP G1 stuff and info was much more available. And I was writing to Hasbro UK before I was online, and have a list from them from 1995 telling me what ponies they believed they had sold in the UK line from 1985 to 1994, so I got information from them right at the end of the G1 line, before stuff got ditched or downsized. That's important when it comes to building information about G1, because most of it is hard copy.
@Ossie - I think if you really did respect that work you would have used it more before this point. My website is also a public resource and easy to find on google and on my signature. You chose not to use it. That's not my fault.
As for credibility, your site claims an imaginary pony exists. Katrine asked you what your sources were, and you haven't provided any. I think credibility goes both ways. Also, in my experience, if someone tells you something or you read something, you should verify it before you include it anyway. That's just being responsible.
Newsflash: Being a site "everyone uses" also doesn't make it correct.
When Kim developed the year system in 1996 it made sense, because it was a US system for a US community and she did all that work from scratch. I may not like DV but I do respect her for doing that, because she did create something new. Everyone else since then has just copied what she did and then done the same stupid party trick of trying to force European ponies into that system, or segregating them out, rather than stopping to think that maybe the system doesn't work any more because it wasn't ever designed to include ponies from outside the US line.
I feel like if you had asked questions before going live with the site, I'd have been all over helping you with getting it organised, and providing links and pictures and proof, because that's helping people out. I am a helpful person, and I have a ton of material which I am more than happy to share in the interests of correct pony information.
But if you load the site and then tell us to prove our case, its is a slap in the face for the work we've done.
As Uni says, people not in the US have had to prove themselves 10x as much on information and still generally get pushed aside if a US centric site says its a certain way. It helps to have a US person say it, who's seen it happen first hand. It feels a lot like it's only possible for a US system site to be an authority on international MLP and the credibility of those of us who grew up with it is constantly called into question :/
Another Newsflash. Websites that use the US system usually get international stuff wrong. (Though some are worse than others).
Your site has errors because you used those US system sites to build an international section. It's a scenario in which nobody wins. Not you. Not me. Not your users. It creates more work and hassle for all. So we really need to get to a point where the US system is no longer dominating pony organisation. And this is a good opportunity to put that into practice...
I agree with Katrine, you need to take down the international section, rework it, do some research and then come back.