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Hope it's ok to post this rant here since it does pertain to trading advice. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has dealt with hassles in trying to get items to overseas buyers. I don't mind helping fellow collectors across the pond and know offering this option increases profits, but just getting the stuff sent off is becoming more trouble than it's worth.
Today I go to ship a package and fill out the form. New forms that require a barcode so mailing it at the other town PO where they are still in the stone age computer wise, I knew was out of the question. Of course the postal clerk at my local PO has to enter said info into computer which can take a while. Well there is one customer behind me that is doing something that won't take much time so the clerk ask if he can go ahead of me and I agree as I was going to offer him to go first anyway. While clerk is trying to get first customer situated, in walks another person so instead of cutting in front, I have to let her go. Then here comes two more customers who of course need to be waited on. The other postal clerk is in the back, but doesn't bother coming up to open the other register to deal with the influx of people coming in so I could go ahead and get this guy to key in my info.
I don't usually deal with our local PO when shipping overseas because the lady clerk there always huffs and complains she has to key in the info. Well, if you don't like your job, give it to me! I'll take the benefits and pension package. It wasn't so much the waiting, but my brother had to go to work and he was sitting out in the car waiting for me to get done so I had no choice but to take the package back home. I just want to mail this package so the customer will get their item and not complain it was mailed late. How do other US sellers deal with mailing internationally? What problems do you encounter?
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I HATE posting things internationally.
When I have toy sales I always get a few international enquiries, but I try to make my sales US only. It is so much more trouble than its worth.
Half of the time I lose money on shipping, even with the postage calculator.
If an item isn't selling and I have an international buyer interested, I will try and sell to them. But I do tell them it will be at least a week before I can ship since I can only go on Saturdays.
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I use USPS.com for some international shipments. it's not the best, but I can't stand in line waiting forever with my 2year old, so if I can't get my husband to watch her I just buy the labels online and drop the package in the overnight bin.
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Every time I do a batch of sales it takes me at least an hour or two to work out postage options and update the postage table etc then depending what happens deal with problems... The possible problems seem endless! I rely on international bidders to get reasonable prices on eBay. Not even minimum wage but worth it to get rid of extra stuff. One batch left to go before optimal stuff reached!
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I use USPS.com for some international shipments. it's not the best, but I can't stand in line waiting forever with my 2year old, so if I can't get my husband to watch her I just buy the labels online and drop the package in the overnight bin.
This! And if it's an eBay sale or if they pay via PayPal I can just print out a label. I bought a postage scale and I keep measuring tape near my computer. Plus my mailmen are nice and I can leave them notes in my mailbox if my packages are too large and they will come to the house and pick the package up for me.
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If you can, I HIGHLY recommend buying a cheapy black and white printer, the cheapest you can find, and then just use refill black cartridges for the rest of your life. (Mine is over a decade old now) Oh, and a kitchen food scale lol. Then you can print your labels directly from ebay. I love love love being able to do this. I can also request package pickups fright from the ebay site so the mail lady knows to come right to my door and pickup the mail during the normal mail route. I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually gone to the PO this year. (none of them pleasant)
The other nice thing about printing directly from ebay, is they often give you shipping discounts. Usually they aren't huge, just a few nickels and dimes here and there, but it can help offset the fees you pay ebay on your shipping. In some cases, the discounts are HUGE (think priority mail international), and I can actually refund my buyers the difference. That makes them very happy :)
International sales make up 30% on my lowest months to 50% on my highest months, so it's definitely a market worth tapping into. If you're in the US, the ebay postage calculator does all the work for you if you can print your labels online. I LOVE printing my labels online. If I had to stand in lines at the PO every day, I think I'd go nutso. The online labels are so much easier. I highly recommend them if you plan on doing any larger volume of shipping. Even just for domestic stuff, it will make your selling life a million times easier. :)
A side note, don't sign up for ebay's global shipping program... stay far far away from that...
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Perhaps not so (directly) helpful to you guys, but perhaps for us international buyers.... Another collector/friend here in my country put me onto something called YouShop (this is a New Zealand thing).
It means I can purchase in the US and get the parcel sent direct to the US warehouse (so you guys aren't shipping 'internationally') where I can then either get my parcel sent direct to me, or hold it there until other parcels arrive and then I can consolidate them and get them all sent together (saving a bit on shipping usually). I pay for the shipping to the warehouse, and from there to me. It's also cool because it means I can buy from ebay sellers who won't ship international. It's a similar system to the GSP but less painful, though I confess to having had some grumbles with the US warehouse.
Anyway, I guess my point being that it often ends up being a bit cheaper than the GSP for me as a buyer, I get tracking, and if other people have similar systems for their countries it could make things easier for both seller and buyer :)
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Honestly, I refuse to ship internationally anymore. I did it some before but it just takes too much. Too much money, too much time, too much waiting, too many possible problems. I can't get to the post office before it closes pretty much ever. Even if I could I don't have an hour to wait in line just so I can deal with the incompetent staff that apparently don't know what they're doing :/
I know it sucks for all the good international buyers out there (I've sold internationally before and had wonderful buyers here on the Arena), but its just way too much. I'd rather just not sell the stuff instead of having to deal with the headache and stress.
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Perhaps not so (directly) helpful to you guys, but perhaps for us international buyers.... Another collector/friend here in my country put me onto something called YouShop (this is a New Zealand thing).
It means I can purchase in the US and get the parcel sent direct to the US warehouse (so you guys aren't shipping 'internationally') where I can then either get my parcel sent direct to me, or hold it there until other parcels arrive and then I can consolidate them and get them all sent together (saving a bit on shipping usually). I pay for the shipping to the warehouse, and from there to me. It's also cool because it means I can buy from ebay sellers who won't ship international. It's a similar system to the GSP but less painful, though I confess to having had some grumbles with the US warehouse.
Anyway, I guess my point being that it often ends up being a bit cheaper than the GSP for me as a buyer, I get tracking, and if other people have similar systems for their countries it could make things easier for both seller and buyer :)
Yeah that is the same deal as the GSP service, just a different company handling your mail...
In my experience, shipping internationally has never been any more of an inconvenience than going to the post office for anything else! So I just don't get why people have an issue with it. Of course, I understand that postage is expensive but you're paying for a service to bring it to your door! You don't have to travel for it, book a flight, cross customs, etc. In rare instances I know you might pay just as much for gas and toll roads IF you chose to travel to pick it up, but not most of the time. If I want the item, I will pay whatever it costs to have it sent to me. :-p I don't understand buyers who want you to cheap out on postal services and proper packaging, etc.
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I find shipping from the US is a real pain, and made overly complicated. I've done it person, and online and its just too many steps!
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I print all my shipping labels online either direct from PayPal, eBay, or USPS.com then use the pick up service. My mail carrier collects my packages (including international) and I never have to go in to the post office. The carrier has a scanner & enters the customs info in on the spot.
I ship multiple packages a day, and have not had any issues or complaining from disgruntled PO clerks. My carrier has told me multiple times that he "gets paid by the hour & loves people like me because it's justified overtime." :P If your clerks are giving you trouble, try the pick up service.
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I haven't had to stand in line at the post office in years. I print everything through PayPal or USPS.com then drop it off at the counter bypassing the line entirely. International isn't really any more difficult than domestic this way - just a couple of extra steps to fill out the customs info.
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Speaking as an "international" buyer and seller...
In the good old days when I was a silly teenager, I used to get very offended by the glut of US only sellers on Ebay. And I converted a fair few, because shipping then was pretty simple. The problem was largely a fear of the unknown.
These days, as a responsible adult, I respect the choice of each seller as to where they ship. It doesn't mean I like it, but it's really not for me to tell them what to do.
In my case, I have shipped internationally as a rule of thumb since I was 16; I'm now 34 so that's what, 18 years? I've shipped all over the world in that time, and every single time I ship (even though I have scales and a printer), I end up having to go to the post office. I have custom forms at home but I still have to make a trip every time.
I have navigational issues, can't drive and, when at home, have a grand total of nine buses in a day that can take me to the post office and back. That isn't nine bus routes. It;s one bus route that run nine times in a day, missing some hours due to school route diversions. Sometimes I can get a lift, but most often I take the bus. Sometimes it means multiple trips on the same item to doublecheck the pricing and size since they keep changing those rules. I've often lost odd money here and there because of changes in those rules.
Even with all of that, I will still ship worldwide because I believe in it. The only exception has been when Parcelforce introduced the volumetric weight and prices for certain items went up into the $60 or $70 range for no reason.
Everyone has the right to decide where and how they ship. My question to the people who ship to the US (or any country) only is, do you buy from abroad? If so, do you expect the seller to go the extra mile for you, travel out to a PO, do all the things they need to to get you your package? If the answer is yes, then surely the same should apply to your dealings with other buyers?
As an international seller, I have a rule now. Ebay is obviously different, but in private sales, I will ship worldwide, but I won't ship to someone who wouldn't ship to me if the tables were turned. I think that its fine to ship to your own country only, but you should not expect someone in another country to go to the trouble if you wouldn't be willing to do so yourself.
Incidentally, in 18 years of shipping worldwide, I have had no packages go missing and only one occasion thus far when someone forced a refund after claiming they didn't get their item. I've sent and received cash the post, nobody ever stole it either way. And I am so well known at three post offices in my area that they now just give me custom forms and airmail labels when they see me. I have had to carry heavy stuff, awkward stuff, and all of those things, but honestly, that's just a normal part of selling to me.
I don't regret shipping worldwide at all. I love the thought that stuff I have ends up all over the world, and stuff I own came from all over the world. But that's just me.
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Perhaps not so (directly) helpful to you guys, but perhaps for us international buyers.... Another collector/friend here in my country put me onto something called YouShop (this is a New Zealand thing).
It means I can purchase in the US and get the parcel sent direct to the US warehouse (so you guys aren't shipping 'internationally') where I can then either get my parcel sent direct to me, or hold it there until other parcels arrive and then I can consolidate them and get them all sent together (saving a bit on shipping usually). I pay for the shipping to the warehouse, and from there to me. It's also cool because it means I can buy from ebay sellers who won't ship international. It's a similar system to the GSP but less painful, though I confess to having had some grumbles with the US warehouse.
Anyway, I guess my point being that it often ends up being a bit cheaper than the GSP for me as a buyer, I get tracking, and if other people have similar systems for their countries it could make things easier for both seller and buyer :)
Yeah that is the same deal as the GSP service, just a different company handling your mail...
In my experience, shipping internationally has never been any more of an inconvenience than going to the post office for anything else! So I just don't get why people have an issue with it. Of course, I understand that postage is expensive but you're paying for a service to bring it to your door! You don't have to travel for it, book a flight, cross customs, etc. In rare instances I know you might pay just as much for gas and toll roads IF you chose to travel to pick it up, but not most of the time. If I want the item, I will pay whatever it costs to have it sent to me. :-p I don't understand buyers who want you to cheap out on postal services and proper packaging, etc.
For me going to the post office is a pain. I'm in a pretty crowded city, so unless I hit the timing just right I will be in line behind about 10 other people, and then it takes a longggg time for them to process my items. For US shipping, I just stop on my way to work at a USPS kiosk and boom I'm done in 5 minutes. I can ship anything and get stamps. I also work a 9-5 day, 5 days a week, so Saturday is my only day I can ship international, and it normally takes at least an hour chunk from my day off :(
When I used to live in a less crowded rural city, shipping was easy peasy. But its honestly more of a hassle than its worth. I also get buyers who are upset when I tell them shipping will be double the cost of the item they're buying.
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Speaking as an "international" buyer and seller...
In the good old days when I was a silly teenager, I used to get very offended by the glut of US only sellers on Ebay. And I converted a fair few, because shipping then was pretty simple. The problem was largely a fear of the unknown.
These days, as a responsible adult, I respect the choice of each seller as to where they ship. It doesn't mean I like it, but it's really not for me to tell them what to do.
In my case, I have shipped internationally as a rule of thumb since I was 16; I'm now 34 so that's what, 18 years? I've shipped all over the world in that time, and every single time I ship (even though I have scales and a printer), I end up having to go to the post office. I have custom forms at home but I still have to make a trip every time.
I have navigational issues, can't drive and, when at home, have a grand total of nine buses in a day that can take me to the post office and back. That isn't nine bus routes. It;s one bus route that run nine times in a day, missing some hours due to school route diversions. Sometimes I can get a lift, but most often I take the bus. Sometimes it means multiple trips on the same item to doublecheck the pricing and size since they keep changing those rules. I've often lost odd money here and there because of changes in those rules.
Even with all of that, I will still ship worldwide because I believe in it. The only exception has been when Parcelforce introduced the volumetric weight and prices for certain items went up into the $60 or $70 range for no reason.
Everyone has the right to decide where and how they ship. My question to the people who ship to the US (or any country) only is, do you buy from abroad? If so, do you expect the seller to go the extra mile for you, travel out to a PO, do all the things they need to to get you your package? If the answer is yes, then surely the same should apply to your dealings with other buyers?
As an international seller, I have a rule now. Ebay is obviously different, but in private sales, I will ship worldwide, but I won't ship to someone who wouldn't ship to me if the tables were turned. I think that its fine to ship to your own country only, but you should not expect someone in another country to go to the trouble if you wouldn't be willing to do so yourself.
Incidentally, in 18 years of shipping worldwide, I have had no packages go missing and only one occasion thus far when someone forced a refund after claiming they didn't get their item. I've sent and received cash the post, nobody ever stole it either way. And I am so well known at three post offices in my area that they now just give me custom forms and airmail labels when they see me. I have had to carry heavy stuff, awkward stuff, and all of those things, but honestly, that's just a normal part of selling to me.
I don't regret shipping worldwide at all. I love the thought that stuff I have ends up all over the world, and stuff I own came from all over the world. But that's just me.
As you said, I take it as an individual thing. If they ship international, great. If they don't, I can probably just middleman it. Otherwise, tough luck.
I come from a different prospective because I'd say 90% of what I collect is from Japan. I don't ship international...and 95% of the time, neither do they! Doesn't mean I'm going to stop buying. It just means that I need to get a proxy/deputy service involved.
I don't believe in the shipping being a two-way street. Every situation is different. For example, all the effort you put in to shipping...to me, monetarily, that would never be worth it. And while I do partially sell to help someone out here and there, profit is the end goal. And international shipping lately has just not been profitable with all the price hikes.
I USED to ship international. But now I just find it to be too big a hassle, too expensive, and too stressful. I can't find good balance between making the buyers happy, but also protecting myself. Protecting myself means tracking. Which means $40 shipping on $13 items. No one wins there. And even though I never had a bad experience, I literally cannot afford for someone to pull that "I never got my item" thing on me. Don't even want to deal with the risk.
I accept that I'm losing customers. It does suck for both of us. So I hate it when people take it personally, as if I'm saying I hate their country by not shipping to them. It's not at all a personal thing...it's a logistical thing. The majority of my buyers were typically from Germany and the UK, actually. Just couldn't keep doing it. I don't have a moral cause for international shipping. So the time/effort/money it takes to get down there, and the 20-40 minutes in the PO on a Saturday TWO cities over just isn't worth it to an occasional individual seller. Especially if I only made one international sale with a value of $15 or less that week or something. I've always reminded people that I'm not a business, nor do I ever intend to be one. I sell to get rid of the old and buy the new, essentially. Hope that all made sense.
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It is a pain. I will do it, but never without getting a quote first. I've had people make me offers for something with shipping and it turns out shipping actually cost more than what the item was worth. But as a seller who didn't get a quote, I ate my losses. It's a lot of work. I can usually accurately guestimate US shipping costs, but international is hard.
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I accept that I'm losing customers. It does suck for both of us. So I hate it when people take it personally, as if I'm saying I hate their country by not shipping to them....the 20-40 minutes in the PO on a Saturday TWO cities over just isn't worth it to an occasional individual seller.
It is quite personal, if you say it 'isn't worth it' to get a pony to a collector who may not be able to get that pony in their country. It's a frustration and a way of excluding people based on location that I have always hated.
Honestly, I also dislike the justifications for it. I can deal more with people who just say, "I don't ship internationally". That's a choice. When you start adding in things like "It's not worth it" or "it might go missing", then you start implying things about international shipping locations that aren't necessarily justified. Things rarely do go missing. We are trustworthy. You said yourself you never had issues. So those things don't need to be said. They're not actually accurate. You also don't have to justify it. It's your choice. You just have to say that you don't want to, and end of problem.
I think that it becomes personally offensive because people feel the need to make reasons for not shipping internationally rather than just saying, "I don't want to" and leaving it at that. "I don't want to" makes people think they sound mean and nasty, but honestly? Saying it's hassle, not worth it and it might go missing is more offensive. Because "I don't want to" is your choice. The other things are like its the buyer's fault for being in an international location, and that's when it gets insulting.
So I suggest in future you just put, "I don't want to ship internationally" and leave it at that. Sometimes less is more. It's not about the buyer being in an international location, but the seller not wanting to take on the extra work to ship to them. It's a seller thing, not a buyer thing. I think you'll find people take it less personally if you don't make out like their living in another country makes them somehow shady or too much trouble, but that it's just something you have chosen not to do.
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How is it personally offensive that people don't want to spend hours and hours trying to deal with international shipping? That's a ridiculous notion. It is a HUGE pain in the USA. It doesn't mean that sellers hate you or your country or consider you and others in your country untrustworthy. Assuming that is making a very, very huge leap.
A lot of non-US buyers (not necessarily in ponies, but in general sales) don't even understand customs and get furious at the "extra charge" they have to pay, blaming the seller for being dishonest/cheating them/etc. Buyers don't always understand that yes, that insane shipping price is the real actual price and not something inflated so the seller can make a quick buck. Its not worth the time, effort, and potential trouble/bad feedback for a very minimal amount of money for some people (not just on the Arena but in general) and there's nothing wrong with that.
It sucks some people can't buy Pony A from Sally, but there's plenty of other ways to get things. Buy from a different seller, go to eBay, make a friend you trade or "swap" sales with to get exclusives, etc.
And honestly, this is a topic about why and how its a pain. Of course people will give their reasons here. If they upset you that much, just don't read them.
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How is it personally offensive that people don't want to spend hours and hours trying to deal with international shipping? That's a ridiculous notion. It is a HUGE pain in the USA. It doesn't mean that sellers hate you or your country or consider you and others in your country untrustworthy. Assuming that is making a very, very huge leap.
A lot of non-US buyers (not necessarily in ponies, but in general sales) don't even understand customs and get furious at the "extra charge" they have to pay, blaming the seller for being dishonest/cheating them/etc. Buyers don't always understand that yes, that insane shipping price is the real actual price and not something inflated so the seller can make a quick buck. Its not worth the time, effort, and potential trouble/bad feedback for a very minimal amount of money for some people (not just on the Arena but in general) and there's nothing wrong with that.
It sucks some people can't buy Pony A from Sally, but there's plenty of other ways to get things. Buy from a different seller, go to eBay, make a friend you trade or "swap" sales with to get exclusives, etc.
And honestly, this is a topic about why and how its a pain. Of course people will give their reasons here. If they upset you that much, just don't read them.
All of this. Said it better than I could have.
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My family is dual US/Canadian. My mother and her family are born and raised Germans. My husband is from HK. I obviously have no negative feelings for any of these countries or their cultures. That said....
Countries I have had packages lost or destroyed as a buyer or as a seller:
Canada (both lost and destroyed)
Italy (lost)
Hong Kong (I think it was US post that crushed this one, normally they are one of the better ones)
US (lost and destroyed)
Netherlands (destroyed)
Germany (lost)
UK (lost)
I still ship international (Note domestic US is on my list) but I completely understand why people don't and on eBay I normally don't bother because I'm lazy honestly. on here I feel more connection to the people and more flexibility than on eBay, most of my transactions here are international and I might even prefer international because it's more fun to send and receive.
all I'm saying is don't take it personally.
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For me, what is hard to understand it is why some charges are so, and I mean really that much, high, when others, for the same country or city are less.
And that goes for the domestic shipping too.
Regarding international I can understand that people don't know, don't like or just simply don't do it. As it has been said before, there's always a way to find a solution.
But you must agree that some shipping costs, on eBay, are just ridiculously high. When I started using eBay my cousin told me, never to buy from Italy, cause it always gets lost (and he is Italian!), that the sending from UK took a lot longer than from US (which is not true, even if the US are just a week away) and to be careful with the shipping costs, since many people used to charge them higher so that they could make profit about it. I have seen some sales on eBay that prooved me it is true. Selling a pony 5€ plus 25€ on shipping is weird, and that within Europe.
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But you must agree that some shipping costs, on eBay, are just ridiculously high. When I started using eBay my cousin told me, never to buy from Italy, caise it always gets lost (and he is Italian!), that the sending from UK took a lot longer than from US (which is not true, even if the US are just a week away) and to be careful with the shipping costs, since many people used to charge them higher so that they could make profit about it. I have seen some sales on eBay that prooved me it is true. Selling a pony 5€ plus 25€ on shipping is weird, and that within Europe.
Some prices are high because that is the cost of shipping. International Priority mail STARTS at $40+. No profit made.
eBay tried to curb profit on shipping by giving it a 10% fee. :/ Which in turn made sellers have to charge a bit more so they weren't losing money.
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Of course I know most of the people don't make profit and international mail is expensive, but I have seen domestic mail that goes as high as international just because it is like that. Here priority mail is around 7€ and some people charges up to 40€ for the same good and in the same conditions. And there are no custom costs... so I guess for i ternatiknal it would be impossible.
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I have seen some sales on eBay that prooved me it is true. Selling a pony 5€ plus 25€ on shipping is weird, and that within Europe.
I think it is sometimes ebays "Customs services and international tracking provided" which makes it higher shipping cost and usually it takes super long to arrive even within EU/European (some reason it will make detour between countries..).. It is like ~10€ more using that custom stuff inside EU and ~20€ more if it from US..
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How is it personally offensive that people don't want to spend hours and hours trying to deal with international shipping? That's a ridiculous notion. It is a HUGE pain in the USA. It doesn't mean that sellers hate you or your country or consider you and others in your country untrustworthy. Assuming that is making a very, very huge leap.
A lot of non-US buyers (not necessarily in ponies, but in general sales) don't even understand customs and get furious at the "extra charge" they have to pay, blaming the seller for being dishonest/cheating them/etc. Buyers don't always understand that yes, that insane shipping price is the real actual price and not something inflated so the seller can make a quick buck. Its not worth the time, effort, and potential trouble/bad feedback for a very minimal amount of money for some people (not just on the Arena but in general) and there's nothing wrong with that.
It sucks some people can't buy Pony A from Sally, but there's plenty of other ways to get things. Buy from a different seller, go to eBay, make a friend you trade or "swap" sales with to get exclusives, etc.
And honestly, this is a topic about why and how its a pain. Of course people will give their reasons here. If they upset you that much, just don't read them.
As I said before, it's up to you where you ship. I'm not trying to tell you to change your policy. But what this thread has actually become is a forum for Americans to complain about everywhere else in the world. I think that's harsh and I'm not afraid to say so.
I've done a ton of dealing with the US over the years, and I have had US people help me out on auctions and items in the past. I know from those US people that it's not as tough to ship abroad as this thread makes out. Certainly it's no more tough to ship abroad than it is to ship abroad from where I am, in the UK. And as I do it without an issue, I find it hard to empathise with anyone who says a buyer is too much hassle because of where they are, not their track record.
It makes me sad because I've been in the community a long time. In the bad old days, this was the general attitude. There were so few international people that hardly anyone shipped abroad and there was no protection anyway. Now there is a ton of protection. Tracking. The US system is amazing because you get automatic tracking numbers on international packages. I think you actually don't realise how lucky you are, but that's kind of natural, because unless you look at it from outside, you can't see it that way.
With the custom fees, I agree that there are people who don't know. But this goes both ways. I've had American sellers put up the price on a custom form to what they think an item is worth rather than the price I paid for it. So that's as much custom fraud as is putting the gift box. I think what you don't realise is that even if I send something somewhere other than the US, this custom fee thing can happen. It isn't exclusively a problem between the US and outside. I think that's my main beef with this post. Shipping internationally is more work, I think we can all agree that. But that isn't a truth limited to the US system - abroad. It's a global one, from all locations.
In my experience, though, more non-US people understand the rules around custom fees than US people do, because we deal with it and the US don't have to. So I think you're talking about a minority of newer buyers, not the vast majority.
If I am honest, I have had the most trouble over the years shipping to the US. But that is not because more US people have been difficult. It's because over the years I've shipped more items to the US overall. I've never had anything go missing, yet (touch wood) but I have been sent US postal orders, I've had US buyers harass me if the item doesn't arrive within 4 days, and a bunch of other basic things which I imagine are just as annoying as sending an item to someone and then getting yelled at about custom fees that aren't your fault.
But the difference is that if someone in the US causes me a problem, I stop shipping to that person. The US is a huge country. If I decided all US people were too much hassle to send to because one of them had a bad day, then that'd be really stupid in my opinion. I totally understand choosing not to ship to individuals who are troublesome or have annoyed you in the past, but sweeping out whole locations (and in this case, the whole world) based on a few very sparse examples is, to me, kind of rude.
It is your right to ship where you like, and I'm not trying to change that. All I am trying to do is paint the picture from the other side of this fence. It would be deeply offensive of me if I made a post deciding not to ship to the US because of those very few negative experiences over the last 18 years. You have to realise that it is the same from our point of view.
I actually really dislike when it becomes a US/global divide. International means everywhere. It's an inclusive term. I'd really like to stop seeing it used to divide people. In the past, the US was the pony community, with a few of us from outside. That's not the case now. There are so many people here who are not in the US, it's actually easy enough to bypass US sellers for things if those sellers don't want to ship abroad. So it's not so much of a logistical problem as it used to be. It's just very sad to me in terms of the attitude, having seen the community open up, that now it's closing up and separating itself out again along this same line.
The community is a community and it shouldn't be this divisive based on location. The great side of this community is when people are looking for ponies and items only available in certain locations and people go to trouble to pick them up from stores and sell them at cost and shipping. This thread is the more negative side of the community, when helping out someone else in another place is simply too much trouble. There are a few people who genuinely have problems with shipping for whatever reason, but they are the minority.
Summarised, I am not offended that you won't ship to me. That's your call. I'm offended at the rationale behind it, that makes out that it's our fault for being where we are, not your choice based on what you want to handle. You're the seller, you make the rules. You are also responsible for those rules, and it's not the buyer's fault if they live in the wrong place.
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Please stop making assumptions about me. I know what customs are. I know they apply to many countries, and even the US in some rare cases. Do not assume I'm uninformed and don't know what I'm talking about because I'm from the US.
I'm not even going to finish reading your post since you think its fine to make assumptions about people based on what countries they ship to. This was started as a thread for Americans to complain about the US postal system's issues and annoyances with shipping to other countries. If those problems are so offensive to you when Americans discuss them why did you even open this thread? No one here is hating on your country or anyone else's. This is not a world-bashing thread and its ridiculous to claim it is like we're hating on every other country. We're not.
People don't have to spend hours and hours on shipping packages to you. Some people have lives and jobs that literally make it impossible. Please stop taking where people ship and their reasons for that choice personally. Its not about you as a person or your country or whatever others leaps you're making. Its nice that you'll ship anywhere but not everyone is able to offer that, period, and any reason they have for that is perfectly acceptable.
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Honestly Taffeta US eBay defaults to domestic shipping only and we are a big enough country that it's normally "good enough". alot of people don't realize or care. Our international shipping has lost its cheap option (about a year ago) and eBay s new global shipping leaves alot to be desired, so many of us just don't bother. on eBay I'm that person, but if someone messages me I will update so they can bid because they obviously care enough to contact me (which matters! And I do this on UK and German eBay too if I want something enough)
Please don't assume anything because of my lazy eBay listings, I have people from 4 countries regularly shipping to my address or having me shop for them and Canada I have a whole model horse club shipping here ( big + fragile + super picky collectors = lots of liability and space in my home!). I'm willing to do the work, but not on faceless eBay where people are frequently rude or irrational (regardless of location). I'd also point out that if I can, I save my Euro' shipments for when I go up to Canada because Canada post is much better for shipping to Europe.
If you would like, please PM me, I'm more than happy to help you out with shipping addresses including the US and our network can always use a reliable UK address because we get blocked from bidding on UK auctions frequently.
**edit to cut volume.
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You know, when it gets to the point when you start talking down to me because I'm not an American, I think it's time that moderation got involved. All I'm going to do is clarify so that I know I'm not misunderstood.
This was started as a thread for Americans to complain about the US postal system's issues and annoyances with shipping to other countries.
No it wasn't. The original poster was complaining about the postal system. Not about the people in other places that might be buying items. And nor was anyone else in the thread except for you.
If those problems are so offensive to you when Americans discuss them why did you even open this thread?
The thread is titled "why is International shipping a pain"? This is not a US only thread, there is nothing in the thread title to debar me from posting, and if anyone did post a US only thread which was there to bash foreign buyers, I think it would be shut down pretty quick, because that kind of xenophobia is not encouraged on global forums like the Arena.
Besides, not everyone discussing was an American.
You made some assumptions I didn't like:
A lot of non-US buyers (not necessarily in ponies, but in general sales) don't even understand customs and get furious at the "extra charge" they have to pay, blaming the seller for being dishonest/cheating them/etc. Buyers don't always understand that yes, that insane shipping price is the real actual price and not something inflated so the seller can make a quick buck.
Anyone who deals online knows that those things can also apply to buyers in the US to sellers in other places, and even buyers in the US to sellers in the US. You made it about Non-US people only, but the reality is there are good and bad people everywhere.
You then claimed I made assumptions about you:
Please stop making assumptions about me. I know what customs are. I know they apply to many countries, and even the US in some rare cases. Do not assume I'm uninformed and don't know what I'm talking about because I'm from the US.
Again, you are mistaken. I said this:
. I think what you don't realise is that even if I send something somewhere other than the US, this custom fee thing can happen. It isn't exclusively a problem between the US and outside.
If you misread the bolded section, I was saying that you don't realise that when I send to a country which have custom fees, I can also be stung by a buyer complaining about charges just the same as someone in the US can. It's not just something US sellers experience. That was all I said. At no point did I - or have I - insulted you as a person on any level.
People who choose to ship only to the US don't damage anyone by not shipping globally. But they do damage our reputations when they spread generalised lies about our honesty and the risks involved. For that reason and that reason alone I got involved in this discussion. All countries have troublesome buyers. All locations have postal issues and hassles. It's something we all face. Instead of trying to put dividing lines between us, isn't it more constructive to see the things that we have in common and share those? That is what International really means. That's what it should mean.
I don't want people considering whether or not to ship abroad to be put off by someone telling them that most people outside the US are ignorant and troublesome to deal with. People get made scared by claims like that about the unknown outside world, especially if they are new to trading and don't know what the shipping situation is like. Your reason for not shipping abroad is that you find it hassle. That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the honesty or the behaviour of the buyer, wherever they are located. Those things are down to individual people, not geographical locations. That is my point and has always been my point and will continue to be my point for the forseeable future.
@ Kasin - I'm not judging you at all. I actually respect you for your honesty. As I said before, where you ship is a choice. I only get annoyed when people try to make out non-US folk are somehow bad or shady or inexperienced or ignorant or troublesome in a way that doesn't apply to people in the US. I think we all know that people are people everywhere and some good, some bad exist in all places. International is not a divisive word and should stop being used as one, that's all.
And I appreciate your offer, but right now my situation is a bit crazy anyway. I am between two places because of my study and that means that even if I did take in items, it would be my parents who had to deal with them mostly and I wouldn't be able to ship them on within a short time frame. It's not possible right now so I don't act as a middleman any more. I appreciate the sentiment, though. I think that a lot more things like that make a lot more constructive sense than some of the other things that have been banded about.
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No one has called non Americans ignorant. My goodness theres a lot of hurt feelings around this thread.
Honestly shipping internationally is a pain. I'll do it if I have to, but I prefer not too. Most people cringe at priority prices, which is the only way I will ship internationally. It is a hassle to deal with customs forms. Especially if you don't ship internationally often.
I would never belittle someone for their reasins for not shipping or shipping internationally. I'm sad to see honesty being met with such hostility.
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From the OP:
How do other US sellers deal with mailing internationally? What problems do you encounter?
Yes, this is a thread that was started about sellers in the USA dealing with shipping internationally and the US postal system. (Bolding mine.)
I wasn't even going to respond again but this is too far. Do not accuse me (or anyone else here) of being xenophobic. Absolutely no one here has bashed international buyers, people from other countries, or other countries themselves. These are typical concerns and problems talked about every single day in Trader Support. Discussing them has never been an issue before; its the entire point of this sub-forum. The leaps and assumptions you're making about the character of the Americans in this thread for not shipping internationally are extremely out of line.
Obviously people from other countries or with experience shipping with multiple countries' postal systems are welcome to, and have, commented. Its interesting to get their POVs and see how international shipping can also be a pain (or not quite so difficult) abroad. But if a thread about Americans discussing their postal system and the problems they encounter when shipping internationally is so personally offensive to you, that single line in the first post is enough to let you know to stop reading.
If you would like to discuss shipping in non-American countries only you're welcome to make your own thread.
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Taffeta, I feel your pain and I understand what you are trying to say. The USA is the largest pony market; it has the most collectors; it has the most secondary sales. Therefore the general attitude of buying from the secondary market is influenced by them.
It can be next to impossible to find a great seller who understands the in's and out's of online international shopping and shipping. It gets more complicated and more expensive every year. and one buyer with inaccurate expectations can rip you off, put you in debt, mess up your credit card... hence why you so often see sellers saying, " I used to ship everywhere... and now I can't." you know some buyer jerk took them for a couple-hundred dollar ride and gave them a really bad experience!
The banking systems in EU/UK/USA are VERY different! People who haven't traveled internationally don't know that. USA people usually also don't know anything about customs fees because the USA postal system "eats" that loss because... what I just said... The USA is the largest market; it has the most collectors; it has the most secondary sales.
But.... plenty of other countries have trouble too! Let's not start about Russia and Italy - it's not easy for those collectors!
Maybe we should start a sticky thread for all the AGENTS that one can use when shopping internationally! Goodness knows we have enough members buying stuff from all over the world! Agents do make things a lot easier and they are certainly more understanding to your individual circumstance then Pitney Bowes *shudder*.
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A very good and trusted long term pony friend of mine has just poked me to say that I may have come over too confrontational in what I posted above. I stand by what my original message was - which is that shipping is a choice personal to the seller, not really related to where the buyer is, and that everyone is essentially the same no matter where they come from. But if I did phrase it in an overly confrontational manner, my bad. I had thought I'd been quite level really overall with this, but as most people here know, I'm autistic, and sometimes I don't catch it before I post it. (That's why I have friends who poke me).
I have reported the post that offended me to the moderators and I have no intention of continuing the debate from the earlier posts since it's not worth it to anyone. I think that Ilovebabysquirmy's idea is a great one, though. Or a detailed FAQ of some kind to help buyers who are thinking of shipping internationally but have no clue how to and are lost. I know we get individual questions sometimes but that's not quite the same thing. Instead of complaining about how negative some sellers are about the world, maybe we can make it positive by highlighting the good side instead for a change?
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I can well and truly admit that when I moved to Canada from the USA, I was aghast at the dramatic changes. Those of you who were around then understand that basically my collecting came to a halt.
It's one thing to have a spare $12 USD kicking around in paypal, buy a cheap pony, yay happy days... versus, $12 CAD in your paypal starts to pay for the shipping on the item, or maybe the taxes, it's a tossup! what spare $12?
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You moved from the US to Canada Baby Squirmy? You poor poor thing *hugs* I moved from Canada to the US so I was the opposite. And I hear you, shipping is terrible! Back in the late 90's Canada Post used to be pretty comparable. Then around 2003 it went crazy stupid. That ended my collecting/buying/selling/trading. When I finally got to the States it was like someone let loose a flood gate and I could start wheeling and dealing and collecting all the ponies I wanted! :D
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I don't mind shipping overseas myself. I love making other collectors happy by offering them something that may be otherwise impossible to find in their country. I love the compliments I've received over the years. My main gripe is the way ebay has their shipping calculations set up. You have to have the package weight first and put that in and even then you can still get bonked with the shipping cost being more than ebay quoted. Then there's the customs forms where some of the small town post offices around me had no idea of the form change and having to redo the info on another form because the other PO gave me the wrong one? That added with the risk you may get a buyer who is impatient and opens a case on you like I had earlier this year makes it almost not worth it. I rather deal with arena members overseas than ebay unless they are ebay members too so I can have an alternate way of communicating if something goes wrong. I have thought about going with the global shipping program. Let someone else worry with the shipping hassle How is that for sellers?
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Plushroo, I'm with you 100% on eBay vs arena sales.
lovesbabysquirmy and silverdawn, I went US to Canada and back. Canadian shipping is ridiculous, it's cheaper to ship into Canada from the US than domestic Canada post, makes no sense whatsoever. That said there is a loop hole in Canada post international shipping that let's you ship out much cheaper than the US can, so it's not all bad.
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Plushroo, I'm with you 100% on eBay vs arena sales.
lovesbabysquirmy and silverdawn, I went US to Canada and back. Canadian shipping is ridiculous, it's cheaper to ship into Canada from the US than domestic Canada post, makes no sense whatsoever. That said there is a loop hole in Canada post international shipping that let's you ship out much cheaper than the US can, so it's not all bad.
I totally agree with everyone on this. I raise my hand as a fourth person who umm moved to Canada from the Us. I never realized the pricing until it was too late. I also still post to people who are in canada as well as abroad. Shipping is costly anywhere and so are fees. However nothing ventured nothing gained.
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this thread has enlightened me in many ways I did not even expect!
while I know it's a matter of personal choice, before this thread I wasn't really able to understand why would someone not post to abroad (unless they have some specific bad experience, but, then again, that can also happen with a domestic transaction), claiming it's too much of a hassle. and of course I, as an international buyer, also came across the "does not post to my country" sign more often than I wanted.
I was always happy to offer international shipping. to me, sending a registered package domestically and internationally is basically all the same. I fill out the same registration form as what I fill out for an inland registered package, I stand in the same line, I spend exactly the same amount of time at the PO. the only difference is I check a different list of fees (customs still might apply, but since it happens on the recipient's end, our PO doesn't make the sender fill out anything. or they might, for a super insured package, but for just a registered one with a tracking number, no).
now I realise I'm a lucky duck with our local postal system: I never knew you US peeps have to fill in forms, and are in for a more complicated transaction at the PO when posting internationally :blink: now I understand things a lot better.
based on this, while yes, it often makes me sad to see something I'd love to buy is not available for me for purchase, I'd like to thank all of those who, despite the more bumpy ride, still offer to ship internationally. and thanks also go out to some posters here for giving out the details of the often mentioned but never really specified "pain".
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I have thought about going with the global shipping program. Let someone else worry with the shipping hassle How is that for sellers?
All the things you cited about ebay shipping in your post above I can relate to and have experienced selling from the UK, too.
Ebay postage function is very annoying here as well. We have to put in UK domestic postage, then EU/Zone 1 postage, then zone 2 postage...and I can never remember which countries are in which zone so it ends up having to calculate an EU postage rate, a US and Canada postage rate, a rate for down under and then still have the option open to have to weigh something for a person who doesn't find that their country is covered in the above. Before I had the scales I lost a lot of money on eating shipping costs because the PO changed rates and weren't good at getting the word out. And of course I was stuck on a limited bus route which ended its service at the same time I finished work, so going to the PO to get quotes was tricky and time consuming - when the PO was open and not being moved into a branch of WHSmiths. So yeah, the scales saved me so much trouble. But Ebay's shipping thing is annoying.
Royal Mail's site also requires you to do every single weight transaction individually, from the start, so it's really tedious if you have a lot of different weight ranges. Especially if you have to go through the process for tracked and non-tracked options for every one. Listing 20 auctions of mixed weight items on ebay with international rates for each item can literally take a whole afternoon/evening to do. And of course you have to measure the larger items too, because Parcelforce take over if the item has a higher combined measurement than 90cm of its three sides, and they use volumetric calculation, which is a lot more expensive than Royal Mail's options, even tracked.
Mind you, as a buyer I see the benefit to Ebay's thought process. It makes for a smoother checkout as a buyer if a seller has the figures up front. But I think it's an issue everyone has when shipping now. Being exact is tricky wherever you are (and made worse if you are selling in a foreign currency and then some referendum happens and crashes your currency by about 30-40 cents, throwing out your entire calculations. Sigh).
I've never used the GSP as a seller. As a buyer, lately, I find it makes more sense to use it sometimes than straight shipping from the US. I understand the US rates have gone up but when you have a seller who wants to charge you $50 shipping for a bunch of pamphlets that are selling for $10, you know someone's just hit the high button to put off bidders from abroad. At least the GSP gives an option and sometimes it is now randomly cheaper, if the bid price is below the custom threshold. The one concern I've heard from sellers regarding it is the fact they repackage items and that sometimes leads to damage. Although the GSP are liable, it's often the seller who gets the initial blame and fallout from a damaged product even when they have packed it perfectly.
I'm a perfectionist when it comes to postage, so that's why I won't use it. I like to know if I send something delicate that it will arrive with the buyer in the condition I sent it. Not groped around with by someone in the middle trying to save their company money at the expense of customer service.
I'd rather sell through other means if I can, but I am actually thinking that I might just sort stuff and try to get a stall at ponycon next year. I am fed up with ebay selling, but I still have a lot of stuff I don't technically need.
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This topic has helped me to see through some behavior I did find weird before. So now I understand.
It is true that from Canada the shipping costs are really cheap sometimes and from the UK they get higher for the same product.
Personally I like buying in Canada, they ponies are cheaper and the costs too. They take a bit longer but not that much.
I had the situation lately that I wanted a pony from US and I found it in France, the pony costed a bit more here but with all the shipping plus pony it was half than if I had bought it from the US...
So for me I would prefer buying closer if I have the opportunity. But since US ponies are better and more htf I would always consider as a buyer to go to the international.
As for the difference between eBay and the Arena sales, I prefer here, since the feedback is always better, but still for the same case as stated before, I found sellers that were always very communicatives.
Anyway, I like this post for allowing us to share our thoughts about that specific topic.
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This thread has been really interesting. I must be really lucky-- I have a local PO 2 minutes drive away and they're always super helpful and even give me better prices for being a local. Filling out a declaration form takes about 2 minutes and there are no customs charges to worry about.
International postage is crazy expensive in both directions, but those of us in smaller countries don't have much choice if we want to build our collections. I definitely spend more money on postage than on ponies. Sometimes I think it would be amazing to live in the US because the domestic postal charges are so cheap! As we have a huge land mass and a small population our domestic charges are comparatively expensive. Being able to post ponies for under $5 would be a dream.
I'm sorry to hear what an ordeal it is for so many people though. I wouldn't have the patience either in some of your shoes. It makes me appreciate more those who do sell internationally and have a bit more understanding why others don't.