The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: Pierlala on June 18, 2016, 02:00:10 PM
-
Hello,
I just made an offer on a listing on Ebay, for Ringlet Brush 'n Grow. The Buy out price was 15 dollar. But there was a "make offer" option so I put in 11 dollars. It got declined within minutes. I really wanted her but I thought I'd give it another try and try to go a little higher so I went to 13 dollar. She messages me after a few minutes. She said:
"Hi,
The offers you are making for the Ringlets auction show the US shipping price. Previously I did not have an international shipping option for this auction. I have revised the auction to include an international shipping price now. I am not sure what the shipping would be, but it will definitely be more than $2.63".
I responded to her that I already saw the shipping price in euro's from the beginning. She then responded with a message saying:
"Oh that is so strange. It is showing me the offer is + 2.63 shipping. I will accept the offer then. I didn't want to accept it if the shipping was so low".
...I mean...so that means that she's profiting from shipping costs? Is that even allowed?
I haven't paid her yet. I will soon. Since it's with Paypal it has a few days delay. Getting my money again on monday :P
Anyway, what do you guys think?
[moving to TS ~ kiwi]
-
The way I read it, she was afraid that eBay was showing you a price of $13 (or whatever) + $2.63 shipping.
Shipping to another country will be muuuch higher than $2.63 so she was afraid she would be losing money.
How much is the shipping cost you can see? If it's about 2.33 Euros or so, then you ARE seeing the "domestic" shipping price--just converted into your currency.
I don't know what country you're located, but recently shipping even a single pony outside the US has cost me at least $15. (Except for Canada.)
-
No, I saw the 11,95 euro shipping price. I mean, she can also see that I live in the Netherlands, right?
-
On her screen it will show the cost within the US, because that's where she is. Unless she meddles around with her settings or specifically asks it to show her the other rate, it won't come up with anything but the domestic US shipping cost. Of course, in your case, you being in the Netherlands, you'll see it in terms of shipping to your location automatically. It's the way Ebay works now. It didn't used to be that regionally efficient ;)
around 12 Euros is loosely about $15 so that sounds about right?
Last thing I had shipped from the US that wasn't MIB was $14.50 and that was to the UK so that makes sense?
-
Ah, okay. It sounds like she's new to international shipping. Some people find it very confusing and intimidating.
But to answer your question, I do not think the seller is pocketing extra money. It just costs more to ship internationally, and therefore an international buyer pays more in shipping than a domestic buyer.
-
I just checked another listing of hers which I was interested in. It shows 20 euro shipping...
-
There are a couple reasons shipping might cost more.
1. The other item weighs more, therefore the shipping cost is more.
2. The item doesn't weigh more, but requires a larger box. Sometimes larger boxes (one side over 12" I think) are more expensive to ship.
3. The seller has changed their method of shipping from First Class International to something else. (Unlikely, though, since Priority International mail to Netherlands would be more like $40.)
4. The seller has added a handling fee. This is completely "eBay legal." eBay doesn't care how much sellers charge for shipping, because they take 10% of the shipping cost as part of their fees.
Basically, just consider the shipping cost to be part of the overall price. If the overall price is satisfactory, then bid. Otherwise wait for a better deal. :)
Although in this case it might be worth it to ask the seller if she will combine shipping on multiple items.
-
It was a pony as well. So that basicaly exclused the first few options.
I have another small update where I caught her in a lie. Because I asked her, "Was that the reason you declined my 11 dollar bid :(?" She then said "No, I set my offer to automaticly decline at 11 dollar". Which was a lie because, first of all...the offer wasn't instantly declined. It took several minutes. I know it's instantly normally, because I've had it happen to me several times. Second, she gave it away by saying: " I will accept the offer then. I didn't want to accept it if the shipping was so low". (read the first post I made).
I just hate it when people are being dishonest.
-
I'm not sure that's a sign of dishonesty. Sometimes ebay's server is slow. And, either way, if she didn't want to accept the 11$ bid, then she doesn't have to. However it happened, its still her item and she has the right to accept a certain price on it.
Shipping prices keep changing and I have to keep changing the shipping on my auctions because of this; it's a pain and a half because it's so much extra work. Also, GSP shipping is usually in that kind of price bracket. She hasn't invoked Global Shipping on her items, has she? Because if she has, she's not profiting from the shipping. Ebay and their third party people will be in handling the international side of the transaction.
It's worth a thought if international shipping is new to her. GSP is horrible, but an easy option for a seller who finds themselves completely confused by all the different tarifs to different places.
-
From your first post, it sounds like "I didn't want to accept it if the shipping was so low" refers to the $13 offer. Because she though eBay was showing you a shipping price of $2.63.
-
Unless a seller changes their settings, eBay will add GSP to a listing by default (for US sellers at least). It's very likely that is a factor in the seller's confusion. Your view shows the shipping cost you will be charged by eBay, but the seller's view is showing the shipping amount she will receive to send it to the GSP center in the US. The balance of what shipping you would pay would go directly to eBay's shipping program (and the seller may have no idea what that amount is as eBay calculates that behind the scenes).
-
I've heard that eBay has been glitchy lately, so that could have lead to the calculation error on her end. I know when I have the calculator set sometimes it shows free to Canada and it's actually like $9. I really don't think your seller is trying to pocket any extra shipping money, just trying to make sure the shipping calculator doesn't make her pay out of pocket.
-
The way I read it is she doesn't want to pay for the extra shipping costs.
-
It looks to me as though you're trying to find a reason to vilify an innocent seller because she didn't take your $11 offer.
1. A single ounce raises international shipping costs from $13 ish to $20 ish. This IS enough to make a difference on a single pony. Big Brothers are over 8 ounces in small a box, a regular pony is 6 to 7, babies and newborns are less. That one ounce makes a difference and is not a seller making ANY money on shipping.
In fact, she'll be losing money because she has to pay 10% fees on whatever it costs to ship to YOU. By shipping internationally. The seller is making less money. For example, on a domestic $3.00 shipping charge, I pay ebay 30 cents out of pocket. To ship a 9 ounce package to you for $20, I pay $2.00 out of pocket. This is one reason people don't ship internationally, because it ends up costing more as a seller to send it. Then you have to deal with people accusing you of pocketing extra money when in reality you LOSE money on shipping.
2. You accuse her of lying about her reason for not accepting your $11 bid because that response took a few minutes and the other one didnt. Ebay offers can be set to automatically decline below a price point while at the same time allowing higher offers to still be sent to the seller for consideration. Even automatic offer rejection emails are NOT instantaneous and can take a few minutes to get to you. Lord knows I've had automatic ebay responses take a couple hours to get to me, in some cases. Regardless, it's still the seller's decision to accept or not accept offers.
Truthfully, you're lucky this seller is willing to ship with the chespet international first class at all. Most won't ship unless it's priority tracked mail or through the global shipping program, which will cost you $30 or more per pony in order to retain seller protection. When sellers are put through the ringer with international sales, especially when they're unfamiliar with the process, I can start to see why many are refusing to do international shipping at all.
-
It looks to me as though you're trying to find a reason to vilify an innocent seller because she didn't take your $11 offer.
Then you're seeying it wrong.
I'm not trying to make her look bad. I'm quite new to Ebay myself. Started buying Ponies from there just about 2,5 - 3 months ago. I have paid more then 30 euro a pony in the beginning incl shipping. Sometimes even more then 40 just because the shipping was so high. I didn't mind back then cause it was getting a bid addictive, so many new ponies. However. The way she said it just made me wonder. And to see different shipping cost on the same type of items (Ponies). Just made me wonder. And if there is a note that says "Seller may not ship to the Netherlands, etc" I always contact beforehand to see how much it would be and if it's worth it.
And no, I am not trying to find a reason to make her look bad just because she didn't accept my 11 dollar offer.
-
Pierlala, a reason it might have gone up is because she's trying to figure out shipping.
From a seller's perspective it is a bit irritating to have people ask if you're making a profit on shipping. I've had people ask me to send them back what I didn't use and had to explain to them that there is no extra. Ebay has assumed what shipping will cost and may not be accurate, only to take fees off of that price meaning that shipping has to come from the cost of the item after fees if there is enough, or out of pocket. Oftentimes people seem to overlook the fact that there are costs for shipping materials, postage, and then triple fees. Ebay charges a fee on both items and shipping and paypal charges a fee, Then after that ebay may not release the funds to the seller right away as part of some weird policy that affects sellers and allows buyers free reign. So then the seller must ship before they even receive their funds and wait.
I'm not going to say you're trying to make anyone look bad, but I will say that there is a lot more to ebay on the seller side of things, and most definitely when it comes to international shipping. The states have bumped up the prices so much over the years that selling overseas is not cost effective. To retain paypal protection, avoid holds, and receive the (required for seller protection/proof of shipping) tracking it can cost anywhere from $30-$60+ priority depending on how quickly a buyer wants a package. And some people are incredibly impatient despite what a seller's terms are regarding shipping.
-
I understand. I merely wanted to hear you guys view on it. Thanks for awnsering all.
-
Hi, I am the seller in this case. Your first offer was rejected because it was below my automatic cutoff for best offer. EBay noticed me that an offer had been made and that you if subsequently made another offer. I checked and according to my auction page I hadn't even enabled global shipping and the shipping price I was seeing from you was very low. I adjusted the auction to accept global shipping and messaged you asking about the shipping. As soon as I found out the shipping on your end was showing a reasonable amount I accepted your offer. I told you via eBay that your first offer was rejected because it was below the amount I would accept for Ringlets.
When you asked me about the shipping cost for the Tales Bright Eyes auction I checked and found that the weight of the pony was listed as 10 ounces not five ounces as is typical. I fixed that and was going to let you know on Monday. If you would have bought bright eyes and over paid on shipping I would have found out when I went to ship her and refunded the difference. I always have the cheapest possible shipping and frequently pay out of pocket for shipping because I undercharge. I have great feedback on eBay and the Arena because I really care and want to make things right for people who buy from me. I frequently put little extras in for people and refund shipping if it takes me more than a few days to get to the post office.
This Sunday is Farther's day and I have been busy with my husband and our daughter so I did not respond to your message about the price difference in shipping for Bright Eyes. I had intended to do so today.
Edited to add: I am really not sure why it seemed to take a few minutes for eBay to reject the offer. I did have it set to that option. I really am not trying to scam you and again I am happy to cancel the order of you would prefer. I am not upset or anything, just a bit sad and perplexed. I really do try hard to be a good seller and make shipping as cheap as possible.
Post Merge: June 19, 2016, 03:40:47 PM
I wanted to clarify too, why I messaged you the first time regarding the shipping. The offer was show to me as offer + u.s. Shipping. Something like 2.63$. I had planned to go in and just reject your second offer but I wanted to message you first to let you know why I was doing that and to let you know that I had gone in and adjusted the auction to accept global shipping. I was in the middle of canceling the order when I got your reply. When I found out that you were seeing an accurate Netherlands shipping I accepted the offer.
If I were to accept an offer of 13.00 or whatever plus 2.64 in shipping I would not even break even after paying eBay and PayPal fees because shipping international is so expensive. I wanted to make absolutely sure that shipping was correct because I have been in that situation before- paying more in shipping and fees than I made in an auction.
Post Merge: June 20, 2016, 06:51:01 AM
I've re-read this thread with a cooler head and I can see how this misunderstanding could happen. I hope we can go forward with this transaction with no hard feelings. It has definitely taught me to be more detailed in my replies on eBay so my thoughts are clearly communicated. That means I need to stop replying on my eBay app on my phone lol
I did print the shipping label this morning and will take her by the post office this afternoon. You paid 13.50 USD in shipping and the actual cost was 12.83 so I will refund you the difference via paypal.
-
I am very sorry that it came off rather offensive. I'm quite new to Ebay. I am not experienced with selling on Ebay either. I tried to sell some G3 Ponies once but they never got sold. I just want you to know that I don't think bad of you as a Ebayer or MLP Arena-er :P. I feel bad now that I made this topic. I hope you can forgive me, I didn't mean to be rude. I look forward to receive beautiful Ringlets! :good:
-
I know whenever I am sending something for international shipping I am losing money :( The calculator on the USPS isn't always correct so I do end up having to pay out of pocket sometimes from ebay and on my IG toy sales. Luckily many of the buyers are very reasonable and are ok with my overcharging and then refunding once an item is shipped :)
I know for me personally I always buy new padded envelopes for my items, and boxes. So I don't ever make any money from shipping, if I'm lucky I'll break even :)
I'm glad that this was worked out and that both the seller and buyer were present.
-
I am very sorry that it came off rather offensive. I'm quite new to Ebay. I am not experienced with selling on Ebay either. I tried to sell some G3 Ponies once but they never got sold. I just want you to know that I don't think bad of you as a Ebayer or MLP Arena-er :P. I feel bad now that I made this topic. I hope you can forgive me, I didn't mean to be rude. I look forward to receive beautiful Ringlets! :good:
Oh my gosh, don't feel bad at all :hug: That's what this forum is for- asking questions when you aren't sure if something is right or not. After I read through everything again in the morning I really saw how the misunderstanding happened and I'm glad you posted about it rather than being worried and unsure if you had been cheated. I'm fairly new to shipping international on eBay so it's a new process for me too.
-
So glad the buyer and seller have worked this out amicably. It's nice to have a forum like this to express doubts if we are new to an online experience.
-
I lost out too on sending overseas as well because ebay has to have a shipping amount added when listing worldwide shipping. It's hard if you're not a full time ebay seller and just getting rid of extras.
-
I'm so glad you could both talk this through and resolve it :bigups: . It was just a misunderstanding and you could sort it out once you both explained what happened - it can be easy to get confused when this sort of situation happens on ebay, but you were right to post here, its not causing anyone trouble, its just asking advice and it meant that both of you could talk it through more easily and resolve the situation with no bad feelings :hug:
Enjoy your new pony - you know she is my favourite ! :lovey:
-
I lost out too on sending overseas as well because ebay has to have a shipping amount added when listing worldwide shipping. It's hard if you're not a full time ebay seller and just getting rid of extras.
Do you mean it wanted you to put in a flat shipping price? Just so you know, there is an option for "calculated shipping", where eBay will calculate shipping (including international shipping) based on the buyer & seller's locations, the dimensions of the package, and the weight of the package. :)
-
I lost out too on sending overseas as well because ebay has to have a shipping amount added when listing worldwide shipping. It's hard if you're not a full time ebay seller and just getting rid of extras.
That's actually not true. I ship overseas and only have the shipping calculator available for Canada. Otherwise I ask that all other countries contact me for a shipping quote.
-
It looks to me as though you're trying to find a reason to vilify an innocent seller because she didn't take your $11 offer.
In fact, she'll be losing money because she has to pay 10% fees on whatever it costs to ship to YOU. By shipping internationally. The seller is making less money.
and
... When sellers are put through the ringer with international sales, especially when they're unfamiliar with the process, I can start to see why many are refusing to do international shipping at all.
I'm really glad this whole thing has been settled and ended up happily :) I just wanted to pick up on this, not as a reason to start more controversy but just as a point of note.
People who do not live in the US have been doing all those things for a very long time. Back before paypal we had to take US cash and change it at our own cost. I think there are still conversion costs meaning we lose money we take in a currency not our own. There are no US sellers who take £Sterling or Euros that I know of. We also often have to sell at a loss because of shipping costs, because we can't compete with a domestic US shipping market.
We also haven't had the option of printing shipping labels for abroad until more recently. That means we also added cost to travelling to the PO as a matter of course. Maybe twice to get the right quote.
What was said about the fees counts for all international shipping. And by that I mean the actual meaning of international - selling to a country outside of your own, not selling to a country that isn't the US. We all pay fees on shipping outside of our country. Most of us just consider that part of the transaction, but it isn't a US-specific hardship. It affects us all.
The point that I think should have been made in the above quoted is not that US sellers are taking a much harsher burden than anyone else (which is not the case), but that international shipping incurs burdens for all sellers shipping outside of their own country. I've been selling since 1998, and it has got a lot easier. But there are additional costs and hassles. Although on the flipside, you might make more money on a sale if you widen your market, so it's probably a negligible cost in real terms.
I think it important to clarify this because I hear a lot lately reasons not to ship abroad and reasons not to ship to x country. And I think the community has come a long way in making its trades and sales more global. I think it would be very sad if that was lost because of a few misunderstandings.
-
It looks to me as though you're trying to find a reason to vilify an innocent seller because she didn't take your $11 offer.
In fact, she'll be losing money because she has to pay 10% fees on whatever it costs to ship to YOU. By shipping internationally. The seller is making less money.
and
... When sellers are put through the ringer with international sales, especially when they're unfamiliar with the process, I can start to see why many are refusing to do international shipping at all.
I'm really glad this whole thing has been settled and ended up happily :) I just wanted to pick up on this, not as a reason to start more controversy but just as a point of note.
People who do not live in the US have been doing all those things for a very long time. Back before paypal we had to take US cash and change it at our own cost. I think there are still conversion costs meaning we lose money we take in a currency not our own. There are no US sellers who take £Sterling or Euros that I know of. We also often have to sell at a loss because of shipping costs, because we can't compete with a domestic US shipping market.
We also haven't had the option of printing shipping labels for abroad until more recently. That means we also added cost to travelling to the PO as a matter of course. Maybe twice to get the right quote.
What was said about the fees counts for all international shipping. And by that I mean the actual meaning of international - selling to a country outside of your own, not selling to a country that isn't the US. We all pay fees on shipping outside of our country. Most of us just consider that part of the transaction, but it isn't a US-specific hardship. It affects us all.
The point that I think should have been made in the above quoted is not that US sellers are taking a much harsher burden than anyone else (which is not the case), but that international shipping incurs burdens for all sellers shipping outside of their own country. I've been selling since 1998, and it has got a lot easier. But there are additional costs and hassles. Although on the flipside, you might make more money on a sale if you widen your market, so it's probably a negligible cost in real terms.
I think it important to clarify this because I hear a lot lately reasons not to ship abroad and reasons not to ship to x country. And I think the community has come a long way in making its trades and sales more global. I think it would be very sad if that was lost because of a few misunderstandings.
I suppose I should clarify that I mean international shipping, not just from the US abroad, but from any country to another country. I'm a Canadian myself and moved to the US a couple of years ago. (Let me just say, the US postal system is a glorious thing compared to Canada Post!!) I remember the hell of trying to convince international sellers (US ones especially) to ship to me in Canada. I'm down to just a few international ponies left, and now I'm facing the same trouble trying to convince German/UK/Dutch sellers to ship to me. Whenever I attempt to buy from anyone internationally, I try to make it as easy for the seller as possible, because so many of them won't ship to the US for the exact reasons you mentioned Taffeta :) I know that postage is high, and the inconvenience is real. The sellers are often very hesitant and apologetic, (sometimes terrified almost) when asked to ship to me. There's nothing I like more than when an international sale is complete and the seller is happy and willing to sell to me again.
I've also had UK sellers outright refuse to sell to me because they didn't want to deal with currency conversions, international shipping, etc. And when they're unfamiliar with international sales, I definitely understand where they're coming from. Especially when I see the backlash from international buyers claiming shipping overcharge, slow delivery times, and in general being unwilling to work with their sellers. I came from Canada, I remember all of that ;) So no, I don't think US sellers in particular are taking a harsher burden than other countries, I think ALL international sellers, regardless of what country they're from, have a greater burden those who only sell domestically.
As for my personal opinion, I LOVE to ship internationally. A majority of my sales now are international, around 40% according to my paypal summaries. Like I said, I remember being stuck in Canada and how hard it was to get things shipped to me, so I want to make sure I can help fellow international collectors and make it easier to get the items they want for the most affordable shipping price possible. :)
-
That was kind of why I wanted to clarify it, because I am certain I have traded/bought from you before, and its' been no issue, and we're both in opposite places. I've just sensed a general depression brought on about international shipping lately because of the meteoric rises in US postage and I didn't want this to become one of those situations.
I think we're lucky we're no longer putting cash in fakies. That's all I have to say about it ;)
-
I personally think your seller is a little newer herself, and therefore is responding based on what she can see. eBay is rather confusing to both buyers and sellers these days. I would not jump to the conclusion that she is being difficult, but by the same token, you may want to reconsider dealing with her if she seems to be difficult to you. The pony you are after is not all that uncommon, and you may be able to get a similar deal from a more experienced (and willing to work with you) seller.
That being said, I will absolutely restate a thousand times over that International shipping has become extraordinarily high for US residents - doubling with the last price increase. And I also feel that buyers need to be aware that eBay does not offer shipping discounts to every seller, and the discount some of them get, not only fluctuates with performance, but is also subject to change constantly.