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TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: ChipsteRJ on April 11, 2016, 04:59:36 AM

Title: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 11, 2016, 04:59:36 AM
Greetings,

I understand that we all do it to some extent, but to see a pony sold with a FALSE inaccurate description rehaired being listed for 3X the price it was purchased for makes me sick.


I know I can't post live links, so here is the one I sold:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/322015488625?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1559.l2649


I suppose the best I can do is BLOCK the buyer and confront her about the inaccurate description. If that is the same hair she certainly did wonders, but my pony had cut hair & cancer.

I would certainly ask questions regarding re-hairing any ponies you decide to buy from this seller.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 11, 2016, 07:31:06 AM
Wow.  I found the other auction via the seller's username and that is 100% your Thundercloud with a rehair job.  I can see the same faded pen mark in your pictures and their pictures.

Here is their description for those who can't find the auction. (Click the image to make it bigger.)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


NO mention that the hair isn't original.  For shame.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ponyqueen on April 11, 2016, 07:31:12 AM
Wow. The hair isn't even the same color!
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 11, 2016, 07:36:12 AM
I guess what makes me most upset is not that she gave him a new life, but didn't even hang on to him long enough to enjoy owning him... hardly a month later.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: NovelNerd on April 11, 2016, 08:18:20 PM
I've never seen anything wrong with people flipping. I've had people do it with my stuff and if they can make more good for them. I would say though rehairing and not stating it though is a different matter and pretty awful.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Stormness_1 on April 12, 2016, 02:11:07 AM
Honestly, I flip all the time, because I often find what I need for cheap in lots, and I like bringing all the other ponies back into the community. But to re-hair and not disclose it is really awful. As someone who's not a fan of re-hairs, I'd be pissed. I personally can spot a fresh re-hair a mile away, but if it's played with, or styled, sometimes it's super hard to see, and you don't realize until it's too late, and the pony is in your hands. I can't find her listing in current, complete or sold, maybe she took it down, but if it is your pony (and going on your word and those of others, I'll assume it is) she's epically naive to think she'll get away with something so brazen only a month after buying the pony, on the same website. If I see something like that on ebay not disclosed, I usually send off an email playing dumb and asking questions about if it has had new hair put in, or if it is a custom or the real thing.. usually it guilt's them into an honest response or the item disappears for a while. If not, I click the report button and block them.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Ringlets on April 12, 2016, 05:13:16 AM
I tried to find the auction but I couldn't find it either  :blush: .  Ok, so she bought him to sell for a profit, fine, but if its the same pony and she has not disclosed flaws *and* even worse, has rehaired him, then that is definitely a big no no  :(   thanks for the heads up :hug:
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 12, 2016, 05:26:32 AM
He is still listed. $125
"My Little Pony Mountain Boy Thunder Cloud Flawed Purple Pink Recurled Hair RARE"

Additionally the cancer spots are not shown in her photos.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: bluerose9978 on April 12, 2016, 06:04:43 AM
I saw it too. The seller curled the pony's hair. Search under the user's name and/or BIN listings.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 12, 2016, 06:16:47 AM
I saw it too. The seller curled the pony's hair. Search under the user's name and/or for BIN listings.

They must have done more than "just" curled the existing hair. He ABSOLUTELY had hair & tail trims. She states  "there appears to be no cuts".
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: CoonhoundBetty on April 12, 2016, 06:33:33 AM
In the listing, you can ask a question. If you were to submit a question in that section below the item description (like, has this pony been rehaired), would it appear publicly for everyone to view, not just in private message?
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 12, 2016, 06:47:45 AM
In the listing, you can ask a question. If you were to submit a question in that section below the item description (like, has this pony been rehaired), would it appear publicly for everyone to view, not just in private message?

No, not necessarily. Sellers have the option of posting questions, but they do NOT have to post the question on the listing.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: bluerose9978 on April 12, 2016, 08:39:43 AM
I saw it too. The seller curled the pony's hair. Search under the user's name and/or for BIN listings.

They must have done more than "just" curled the existing hair. He ABSOLUTELY had hair & tail trims. She states  "there appears to be no cuts".

I didn't mean to imply they just curled the hair. I meant they probably curled it to cover up the fact that it has been rehaired. I never said " just" in my original post. Chill out.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 12, 2016, 04:44:35 PM
Well it has been BIN'ed now by somebody.  :(   Thanks for letting us know!

Edit:  oops!  Browser error or something...  ?
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 12, 2016, 05:11:57 PM
It shows as active for me.  Maybe there was a buyer but they backed out?

Item ID is 141955487559 .
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: jrr74 on April 12, 2016, 05:53:15 PM
That is awful.  He/she used the curly hair to hide the flaws of the left ear and eye.  She painted over the symbol to hide the scratch, you can see the lightning bolt is smaller on the DS (hope I got that right (vs NDS :blush:)).  And then the whole hair thing?!  Unbelievable!  Where is the integrity? 
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on April 12, 2016, 08:32:11 PM
My mistake!  Oops I will edit...
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 12, 2016, 08:53:50 PM
Thanks guys for the advice.

Now that I've cooled off a bit I just emailed a confrontational message to the seller requesting that she mark the pony with "RH" I am awaiting a response.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Stormness_1 on April 12, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
So weird that some of us can't see him. I can see one other pony of hers listed (Baby Tic-Tac-Toe), but that's it.

edit: Now I can see other ponies, but still not him. I was sent a link to the listing, and it's the only way I can see it, clicking on "see seller's other listings" makes him disappear again.

That re-hair is a tough one to spot, and the photos hide the marks extremely well. I'd be so mad if I bought him!
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 12, 2016, 11:18:57 PM
Now that jrr74 mentioned it, yeah, they definitely touched up the righthand symbol.  There was a rub on the "elbow" of the lightning bolt that they painted in.  Which would be fine if they had MENTIONED it!  Not okay to pretend like it's original.

BTW I am also wondering if they rehaired the Sherbet they're selling.  It's the same hair color as Thundercloud and the length / way her hair sits doesn't look quite right to me.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 13, 2016, 04:34:44 AM
Certainly makes me think 2X when buying any pony from this seller. I hope none of the previous ones she sold were re-hairs.

I have an issue seeing listings on foreign websites too. Make sure that the ebay you are searching is ebay.com and none of their other international sites.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ashlyne on April 13, 2016, 06:09:59 AM
I messaged the seller on Monday and just got a reply.  The seller admits it is a re-hair.   They don't say anything else.

I thanked them for telling me, and also told them that rehairing a pony, recoloring, repainting symbols or any other sort of covering up of flaws and then not mentioning it in a sale is very frowned upon by collectors.  I told them I wanted to let them know it could damage their reputation as an honest seller and cause problems with your buyer, in case they weren't aware. 

It'll be interesting to see if they adjust their auction.   I noticed the symbol repaint too, but didn't flat-out tell them I noticed it.   LadyMoondancer, I agree that Sherbet looks like a rehair.  It's very well done and that's why these auctions (and seller) are so dangerous.   You would think it would be common sense to mention these things, which makes me think it's intentional.   So sad :(

Post Merge: April 13, 2016, 06:19:56 AM

So weird that some of us can't see him. I can see one other pony of hers listed (Baby Tic-Tac-Toe), but that's it.

edit: Now I can see other ponies, but still not him. I was sent a link to the listing, and it's the only way I can see it, clicking on "see seller's other listings" makes him disappear again.

The auction is set to ship to the US only, so that may be why it isn't showing. If you log out and search on the US ebay site www.ebay.com, he may show up. Or, he might show up if you click on the "worldwide" under Item Location.   Also, the seller spell the name Thunder Cloud, two words.  That may help  :)
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Wardah on April 13, 2016, 10:39:48 AM
I messaged the seller on Monday and just got a reply.  The seller admits it is a re-hair.   They don't say anything else.

I thanked them for telling me, and also told them that rehairing a pony, recoloring, repainting symbols or any other sort of covering up of flaws and then not mentioning it in a sale is very frowned upon by collectors.  I told them I wanted to let them know it could damage their reputation as an honest seller and cause problems with your buyer, in case they weren't aware. 

It'll be interesting to see if they adjust their auction.   I noticed the symbol repaint too, but didn't flat-out tell them I noticed it.   LadyMoondancer, I agree that Sherbet looks like a rehair.  It's very well done and that's why these auctions (and seller) are so dangerous.   You would think it would be common sense to mention these things, which makes me think it's intentional.   So sad :(

I don't see why they aren't mentioning it? Aren't ponies with fixed flaws worth more than flawed ponies? Making them look better brings their value up so why not mention it?
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ashlyne on April 13, 2016, 10:53:59 AM
I messaged the seller on Monday and just got a reply.  The seller admits it is a re-hair.   They don't say anything else.

I thanked them for telling me, and also told them that rehairing a pony, recoloring, repainting symbols or any other sort of covering up of flaws and then not mentioning it in a sale is very frowned upon by collectors.  I told them I wanted to let them know it could damage their reputation as an honest seller and cause problems with your buyer, in case they weren't aware. 

It'll be interesting to see if they adjust their auction.   I noticed the symbol repaint too, but didn't flat-out tell them I noticed it.   LadyMoondancer, I agree that Sherbet looks like a rehair.  It's very well done and that's why these auctions (and seller) are so dangerous.   You would think it would be common sense to mention these things, which makes me think it's intentional.   So sad :(

I don't see why they aren't mentioning it? Aren't ponies with fixed flaws worth more than flawed ponies? Making them look better brings their value up so why not mention it?

Well, you're comparing a pony with known obvious flaws to a one that's had those flaws repaired.  Then, yes, the repaired one might be a little more valuable than the one showing all those flaws (although it depends on who's buying -- some collectors prefer all original parts on a pony, even if they are damaged parts,  over new parts that aren't original or vintage.)   

But what we have here is what appears to be a pony without flaws, with what looks like original hair and symbol paint. And since the seller isn't mentioning otherwise, buyer might be fooled into thinking it's a pony with nice and complete original parts.  A pony with all original hair that looks *that* good is definitely going to sell for A LOT more than one that's had parts replaced and painted over, no matter how well those repairs are done.   
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Wardah on April 13, 2016, 12:21:21 PM
I messaged the seller on Monday and just got a reply.  The seller admits it is a re-hair.   They don't say anything else.

I thanked them for telling me, and also told them that rehairing a pony, recoloring, repainting symbols or any other sort of covering up of flaws and then not mentioning it in a sale is very frowned upon by collectors.  I told them I wanted to let them know it could damage their reputation as an honest seller and cause problems with your buyer, in case they weren't aware. 

It'll be interesting to see if they adjust their auction.   I noticed the symbol repaint too, but didn't flat-out tell them I noticed it.   LadyMoondancer, I agree that Sherbet looks like a rehair.  It's very well done and that's why these auctions (and seller) are so dangerous.   You would think it would be common sense to mention these things, which makes me think it's intentional.   So sad :(

I don't see why they aren't mentioning it? Aren't ponies with fixed flaws worth more than flawed ponies? Making them look better brings their value up so why not mention it?

Well, you're comparing a pony with known obvious flaws to a one that's had those flaws repaired.  Then, yes, the repaired one might be a little more valuable than the one showing all those flaws (although it depends on who's buying -- some collectors prefer all original parts on a pony, even if they are damaged parts,  over new parts that aren't original or vintage.)   

But what we have here is what appears to be a pony without flaws, with what looks like original hair and symbol paint. And since the seller isn't mentioning otherwise, buyer might be fooled into thinking it's a pony with nice and complete original parts.  A pony with all original hair that looks *that* good is definitely going to sell for A LOT more than one that's had parts replaced and painted over, no matter how well those repairs are done.   

So basically the seller is being greedy by trying to get more than a repaired pony is worth? Like for example a janked pony go for $10 and the same pony in mint condition would go for $20 but a restored janky pony would only go for $15? And then there are some people who would rather spend more and get the minty original instead of the just as good looking restored pony and still others who would rather spend less and get the still janky original one?
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ashlyne on April 13, 2016, 12:37:34 PM
Ya something like that. *If* that's truly the seller's intentions.   

We know ChipsteRJ sold the original to this person with cut hair, spots, marks and scratched symbols for $41.   I really don't think the restore added all that much value because the mold spots and marks are still there and I don't think there's much of an improvement on the symbol quality.  I probably would value the restored pony at only around $50-60    Even if the hair WAS original, I don't think this Thundercloud is worth much over $80 IMO because of the body flaws that can't be fixed or hidden.   
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 13, 2016, 01:09:22 PM
Basically, a pony who has awesome "factory" hair and an unrubbed "factory" symbol is worth more than a pony with a reroot and a touched up symbol.

Now, the restored pony will probably be worth more than a pony with a buzzcut.  ;)

But the problem here is that the bidders don't know they're bidding on a restored pony--which some people don't even collect at all, and which is never going to be as valuable as a pony who is FACTORY mint.

None of this would be a problem if the seller was frank and said "I rehaired the pony and touched up the symbol", but they way they dance around the issue in the auction implies that the hair is the original factory hair.  They are trying to wring more money out of buyers who think they're buying a pony with factory hair and symbols.

Hope that explanation makes sense. ;)
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Galactica on April 13, 2016, 01:25:47 PM
I don't like that they are passing off a rehair-

more troublesome is the fact that they have not shown the cancer-  I have been tricked like that before and thought it was an honest mistake but now I'm not so sure :(
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Stormness_1 on April 13, 2016, 07:21:02 PM


Post Merge: April 13, 2016, 06:19:56 AM

So weird that some of us can't see him. I can see one other pony of hers listed (Baby Tic-Tac-Toe), but that's it.

edit: Now I can see other ponies, but still not him. I was sent a link to the listing, and it's the only way I can see it, clicking on "see seller's other listings" makes him disappear again.

The auction is set to ship to the US only, so that may be why it isn't showing. If you log out and search on the US ebay site www.ebay.com, he may show up. Or, he might show up if you click on the "worldwide" under Item Location.   Also, the seller spell the name Thunder Cloud, two words.  That may help  :)

Yep, tried all of that, too. I can see some of the ponies, but not others. I even went via the link I was sent, and then looked at other listings from the listing, and poof, he was gone. It's really weird. Worldwide, correct seller, ebay dot com, which due to being a new PC, hasn't even got my location yet for shipping, so that's not it. Maybe it's my ebay settings from .au jumping across, but it hasn't found my postcode for shipping quotes or anything, and it didn't log me in, either..
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ChipsteRJ on April 13, 2016, 09:37:29 PM
Looks like the listing was removed, edited & reduced.

Here is the response:

Quote
Thank you for giving me advice. I will update my listing accordingly. I do not sell often.

This was my original message:
Quote
Greetings,

I have a MAJOR issue with your listing.
You bought this pony from me. I know his real condition. In your description you fail to mention that you not only re-curled his hair, but that you also completely re-haired him.

Here in the collector community many of us don't mind however to some this is a MAJOR issue.

Generally when you re-hair a pony it is customary to mark the pony on the hoof with an "RH" to indicate that the pony is no longer in original condition.

My wish is that you will seriously consider my advice and disclose all flaws & restored points including the cancer on his front & marking "RH" on his hoof before an unsuspecting collector buys him and finds out the hard way that he is no longer an "original", but a restore.

Here is the edited description:
Title: My Little Pony Mountain Boy Thunder Cloud Flawed Purple Pink Re-Hair RARE
Price: $85
Quote
RARE UK My Little Pony Mountain Boy Thunder Cloud Flawed Condition

Condition:
Eyes and Symbols: Eyes are in great condition. Freckles are good. The body symbols are faded.
Hair: No missing plugs. Soft and silky. There appears to be no cuts. His tail looks short due to re-curling. Not factory curl. He has been re-curled.
Body: There are various pen and marker drawings around his body - foot, side, both ears, and face. There is also a cancer marking on his front foot.

He is not perfect, but does come from a pet free and smoke free home.
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Ringlets on April 14, 2016, 04:12:11 AM
I'm glad she changed it. Guess too many people can tell  its a rehair for her to not say anything , especially since you both messaged her and theres this thread also if she did a search , so she put re- hair in the title now - good ... but...wait  a sec...  its still not in the actual description?  :blink:
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: ashlyne on April 14, 2016, 05:21:19 AM
Stormness_1, that really is strange!  Makes me worry just how many international auctions aren't showing up in my searches and how many things I may be missing out on   :(


Hm.  The auction is down now. So I'm guessing it's OK to post the link??

Spoiler
http://www.ebay.com/itm/My-Little-Pony-Mountain-Boy-Thunder-Cloud-Flawed-Purple-Pink-Re-Hair-RARE-/141955487559?hash=item210d34d747%3Ag%3Ac7kAAOSw8RJXCsVR&nma=true&si=%252F3EDwOopVWsbQCpyO7XZ4%252FoFIgw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 Ya, they only changed the title, which is good, but it needed to be in the description too.  Also, they should mention messing with the symbols!    I wonder if they'll try to relist it.  $85 still seems really steep considering the body is pretty messed up.     
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Sebby6 on April 14, 2016, 05:40:33 AM
Stormness_1, that really is strange!  Makes me worry just how many international auctions aren't showing up in my searches and how many things I may be missing out on   :(

Yep. This is a real thing. I noticed it recently went a US friend sent me the link. I also tried all the same steps - I even set one of my US shipping addresses to default and it still didn't show.
If anyone works out how to get around it, please let me know
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: jrr74 on April 15, 2016, 01:47:20 PM
Stormness_1, that really is strange!  Makes me worry just how many international auctions aren't showing up in my searches and how many things I may be missing out on   :(

Yep. This is a real thing. I noticed it recently went a US friend sent me the link. I also tried all the same steps - I even set one of my US shipping addresses to default and it still didn't show.
If anyone works out how to get around it, please let me know

This is not good business.  Well, I guess it is good for me because I was suppose to go on a pony buying hiatus this year.   
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Stormness_1 on April 15, 2016, 10:42:15 PM
Stormness_1, that really is strange!  Makes me worry just how many international auctions aren't showing up in my searches and how many things I may be missing out on   :(

Yep. This is a real thing. I noticed it recently went a US friend sent me the link. I also tried all the same steps - I even set one of my US shipping addresses to default and it still didn't show.
If anyone works out how to get around it, please let me know

This is not good business.  Well, I guess it is good for me because I was suppose to go on a pony buying hiatus this year.   

It's happened to me a few times and I just figured I'd missed the auction or whatever, because sometimes it works, but it is definitely strange that certain things we're unable to see. I'd say it's a glitch on ebay's end with a listing option that has unnoticed side effects for international buyers. And no-one notices it, because they can't see it!
Title: Re: Pony Flipper: sam2600420- undisclosed flaws & inaccurate description
Post by: Ringlets on April 16, 2016, 04:52:41 AM
I can see it in the link you posted Ashlyne where the listing had ended but nope it wasn't showing up for me either previously in any searches even if I went on US ebay :crazy: :(

Looking at it now yes the re-hair looks obvious, as does the re-curling, and the fact that there was still no mention of it in the description or a mention of the symbol touch up either is very bad.  She cant deceive collectors who know what to look for so easily, but  someone new to collecting or someone buying as a gift for a friend, or someone who does a quick BIN needs to be careful of people like this.
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