The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: lostpony on March 23, 2016, 02:39:51 PM
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Hi all! I am one third through watching G1 after being a big G4 fan for some months now, and I want to kick off a conversation about how these shows and their ponies are similar and different.
I love both shows and everything Pony. Let's all share the wealth with each other!
So far I have noticed:
-the 80s cartoon has more violence: G1 ponies punch bad guys and attack in groups while Twilight Sparkle was not allowed to punch Tirek in the face. Almost every episode the G1 ponies seem to end up in bondage and there are very few stand-alone moralistic episodes, only 2 in the first third of the show, while FiM has mostly moralistic episodes and mainly just the big season-enders have significant bad guys.
-Flutter Valley's Sun Stone is very much like the Crystal Empire's Crystal heart
-Glass Princess Porcina gets to be a friend with no punishment when she reverses her attack on Ponyland just like Starlight Glimmer gets to be a friend with no punishment when she stops her attack on Equestria
-G1 ponies have "symbols" and G4 ponies have "cutie marks" but I don't yet know if G1 will go into getting symbols or if they have them from the beginning...
-G4 has everypony/anypony lend-a-hoof language and G1 doesn't seem to
-Both have Spike!! But in G1 he is much more of a baby than G4. In both he usually gets the short end of any deal.
I love the carwash-style pony wash in Glass Princess where the ponies are tied to a conveyor belt and end up looking shocked while the Raptorians comb and style their hair...so ironic as this is what happens to the toys! Love it! And that makeup job...poor little ponies!
As to the toys, G1s are supple and G4s are hard...less brushable hair on the G4s, all G1s seem to have brushable hair...I love them both. Both had official plushes too!
OK pony people, the floor is open. What do you love about G1 and/or G4?? What do you notice is the same or different?
Thanks everypony!
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I haven't really watched much of the cartoons, but I do have lots of G4s and some G1 brushables :)
Generally, I've noticed that G4s are SUPER tiny compared to the other generations (except for fashion sized and the like)! It's almost a little disappointing, since I feel like I'm paying more for less material :P Even so, I do like how small g4s are since they take up considerably less shelf space, and it's easier to display them. I wish there were more poses!
One major difference I notice is hair quality. My childhood ponies (G1s and a couple of g3s) have this nice, soft hair that is in good shape even though I haven't really maintained them much for the last 20 years. Although, it's shorter on average than modern counterparts (except my brush n grow, of course), which makes interesting styling more difficult. With my G4s, I can kind of go crazy with making fake bangs, braids, updos, and curly hair :) unfortunately, the tradeoff is that the hair quality has gone down considerably...tails are the main offenders.
What an interesting thread idea! I wonder what others will say :)
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Beyond a lack of time and budget, the G1 cartoon had two major problems. The first was den mother Megan. The second was the baby ponies' broken English. However, the setting was more interesting than G4's, as there's a sense the world is much larger than the ponies' influence. Also, Wind Whistler is best pony EVER!
As for toys, G1 is better made and had more interesting concepts for its different lines. Also, there was more separate characters G1 as they didn't just make the same six characters over and over.
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If we're going by cartoons, I prefer G4. They basically took the best parts of MLP & Friends (the fantasy land) and Tales (in depth personalities) and combined them.
Also, as mentioned, no babies speaking in "baby talk". The weird thing is the babies spoke perfectly normally in the two specials and the movie--in which a baby pony played a starring role--but when the series came along, BAM, "Me thinks hard 'nough, dere be way in!" Ugh, I feel unclean just typing that.
Anyway, I like the world and characterization of G4 more. I feel about MLP & Friends much the same as I do about G1 Transformers . . . The characters and plots seem kind of "floaty" due to the way they were produced. My impression is, with G4, the writers meet up and sort of hammer out a plan for each season. They most definitely did NOT do cartoons that way in the 80s. Most writers would never meet, speak, or communicate with each other. Which means that if So-and-So Writer has Shady being the greatest jumper ever in his script, Such-and-Such Writer will not realize it and may make Shady the worst jumper ever in HER script. Basically each writer had the series bible to go off of and "advertise these toys" and that was it.
Soooo that meant that a G1 episode--whether Transformers or MLP--may have character actions that sort of come out of nowhere. For example, after many episodes of the ponies not having any problem with Wind Whistler, SUDDENLY everyone is being extremely snooty and mean to her over "having no feelings". It feels weird, like Buttons, Truly, et al just suddenly decided to become massive taunting jerks that particular day. Same thing in Transformers, the Autobots are a big happy family, then SUDDENLY out of nowhere Brawn is accusing Mirage of being a traitor, because . . . ????? Because the writer wanted to write a moral about "don't leap to conclusions", basically.
I do think G4's attempt to tie everything back to "friendship" has been a strain over the past two seasons, as the writers inevitably run out of "friendship lessons", and I think they would be well-served by inserting more straight-out "adventure" plots to avoid this problem. Thumbs down on Princess Twilight Sparkle, because I think it's a real disservice to basically say: "The most awesome thing a girl can become is a princess, period, full stop" when that's, you know, not a legitimate career choice for 99.9% of the target demographic. And not even the career that would make Twilight Sparkle happiest, IMO.
One thing that MLP & Friends, MLP Tales, and MLP FIM all share is that they feel very "suburban whitebread" to me, which I don't like. MLP Tales was the worst offender, for obvious reasons, but MLP & Friends and MLP FIM also feel very "generic America, but with ponies" a lot of the time. I don't like the way MLP FIM directly copies real world locations (Manehattan and so on). Very disappointing that they make Pony New York, complete with Pony Statue of Liberty, instead of making something new and unique for their mythos. I hope someday there's a MLP series that treats the "fantasy" element a little more seriously.
Anyway, I much prefer the G1 toys, which is what I really care about, LOL. Much better quality, more creative, and just more characters. The G1 comics are also amazing.
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I haven't really watched much of the cartoons, but I do have lots of G4s and some G1 brushables :)
Generally, I've noticed that G4s are SUPER tiny compared to the other generations (except for fashion sized and the like)! It's almost a little disappointing, since I feel like I'm paying more for less material :P Even so, I do like how small g4s are since they take up considerably less shelf space, and it's easier to display them. I wish there were more poses!
One major difference I notice is hair quality. My childhood ponies (G1s and a couple of g3s) have this nice, soft hair that is in good shape even though I haven't really maintained them much for the last 20 years. Although, it's shorter on average than modern counterparts (except my brush n grow, of course), which makes interesting styling more difficult. With my G4s, I can kind of go crazy with making fake bangs, braids, updos, and curly hair :) unfortunately, the tradeoff is that the hair quality has gone down considerably...tails are the main offenders.
What an interesting thread idea! I wonder what others will say :)
This is due to inflation. A single g1 back in the 80's was $5 but today would have been closer to $10. People today don't want to pay more than they did in the past. Instinctually, people can't compensate for inflation in their heads. So if it was $5 before, it should be $5 now. So if Hasbro keeps the basic pony at $5, then as money inflates, they keep having to make up that difference somewhere else. So each subsequent generation gets smaller and the hair loses more quality.
Post Merge: March 23, 2016, 05:07:31 PM
The things I love about g1 are the quality toys, the wide assortment of characters, and that they are more horse-like. I adored RAMC but was not quit as in love with other specials or movie. I had very limited acces to the show because we didn't have cable. I find a lot of the show hard to watch as an adult. But at the same time, I hate it when it is degraded by some fans who only do it because they have no concept of how different the animation process is today from 30 years ago.
I did not and do not like Tales because they were too human. I mean what was the point of them being ponies? ( I was *not* into dolls as a child.). For me it has always been more about the toys.
G4 does have its own charm even though they look less like actual horses. I do collect them and watch the show. I love that Twilight lived in a library because I work in one so I was pretty disappointed to see it be destroyed. I also wish that it wasn't quit so tied to "friendship." I want more adventure but not necessarily more battles.
I'm also a little disappointed how the show is (mostly) leading the toys instead of th other way around. So instead of the toy designers creating the characters, the show animators are creating ponies meant to be background characters which gain in popularity and are being made as the toys. So a lot of bland color schemes with single toned hair and recycled cutie marks. And apparently only RD is allowed to have rainbow hair.
I do like musicals so I do like the tradition of songs that spans the generations. G4 does have a lot of great songs.
I wasn't a fan of the blind bags as much until they started producing the current line with more play sets and action poses. I'm looking forward to setting up an elaborate display with the train.
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I admit this is going to be pretty short and simple:
I'm not very fond of the G1 cartoon outside of nostalgic value (loved it as a kid, and the movies), but I'm more fond of the G1 toy-line, as there's more variety of shape, color, and theme, and the toys seem better put together overall. I did like the G4 cartoon, in its first few seasons, though my affections have waned and I find as for toys I really only care for the blind bags, as they have more variety for their smaller size.
To me, the G1 cartoon is very poorly put together, with lackluster animation and design, plots that seem slapped together, and overall is pretty much in the 80s lines of cartoons designed to sell toys with little time, effort, or money put into production.
With newer animation software and changes in production costs the G4 cartoon, built out of the nostalgia for G1 toys has quite a bit of merit, with more care to its making it seems. They toys seem to have suffered the inverse, with G1 the toys overall seem better designed (apart from a few issues like the flutter ponies) and with more thought given to each line of toys within the generation. Presently the designs for G4 seem a bit stagnant in the brush-able line, seeing perpetual rehashes of the Main 6, and very little deviating from that. I'm curious to see where Hasbro's forays into more 'action figure' like toys with more articulation will go, however, as that opens quite a lot more toy possibilities.
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Knowing the ordeal animation was during the 80's (the commentary on the Real Ghostbusters DVD's explains the joy of the animation process), I'm more forgiving of the animation quality.
I think why I like G1 better is the more standout characters. Wind Whistler spoke to me as a kid and speaks to me today than OCD Twilight Sparkle. Fizzy's sweet naivete is more endearing than Pinkie Pie's loud and over the top antics.
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The G1 and G4 cartoons are hit or miss for me. There are some I enjoy watching and others I don't from both generations. I watched RAMC a lot at my grandma's house growing up and sometimes I would watch some of the My Little Pony episodes on Disney channel.
I do think with G1 the cartoons were made mainly to sell the toys that were already in production while the reverse seems to be true in G4. The toys seem to come out after they have been in the show instead of already being on the shelves around the time the episode airs.
That being said I think G1 and G4 cartoons do have a few good episodes. The original specials are probably the best as far as the writing goes for G1
Ponyfan
G1 had a better variety with the toys and they were better quality. Some of the ponies are over 20 years old and they are still around. I'm not sure if we'll be able to say the same thing about G4 ponies.
Ponyfan
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I prefer the g1 toys to G4 toys, but I like FiM to the g1 series.
The g1 toys just seem to be better produced. They're bigger, more sturdy and they have better hair. There's also a lot more variety, both in characters and in sets. We're 6 years into G4, and there's still so few brushable characters. Plus, I just find them more aesticially pleasing.
The show had *characters* I liked, such as Wind Whistler and Fizzy, but the plots were kind of thin. I don't expect much from a 15 min, 80s cartoon but there also wasn't much there. The Disney cartoons that came out years later were so much better.
Friendship is Magic, however, seems to have much better thought out plot lines and world-building. Is there problems, still? Sure. The cutie mark crusaders bored the heck out of me and I think there were a lot of issues with last season. They rarely use Luna. Shining Armor came out of nowhere. But at least there's stories to be had.
The toys, on the other hand, still leave a lot to be desired. I'm not a blind bag collector and I get bored seeing mostly the same characters every single time. No matter how gimmicky (and I love a good gimmick,) you only need so many Pinkies. Plus, they're so tiny! Too tiny for me. So, they're not my favorites.
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To me, the G1 cartoon is very poorly put together, with lackluster animation and design, plots that seem slapped together, and overall is pretty much in the 80s lines of cartoons designed to sell toys with little time, effort, or money put into production.
Mostly true points - but the G1 cartoon has to be taken in the context of the time it was made. Animation was /incredibly/ time consuming back in the 80's if you weren't pulling a Flimation (stock motions/character sequences with just the lip-flaps being animated for most shots). That wouldn't have really worked for MLP given the broad cast of characters. I'd wager more time and effort was spent on the 80's version than FiM - goes to show you how much leverage technology has in regards to animation quality.
How kids consumed the show was also very different. You couldn't count with any reasonable certainty that your episodes would be shown in order, nor that kids would get to see all of them. Thus every episode / multi-parter had to more or less stand on its own and leave things at the end the way they were at the beginning, with little to no progression. Most of the episodes I saw were rented from the video store.
FiM is inarguably a higher quality show, mostly because the standards and available resources today are vastly superior than when G1 was being produced.
Toy-wise, G1 remains the superior product, and it doesn't seem likely that future generations will improve any in that sense, given it's a bottom line decision.
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shows. no comparison. I know the g1 cartoons are lame. but I had a nostalgia fondness for them and they are something I will watch the odd ep of every few years when nobody else is home. New cartoons, better tech, better quality and finally marketers "get" that parents watch children's cartoons and movies so it's better to include some decent plots and jokes/references for them rather then make them suffer. :P Twinks made me binge watch a pile at her house. they were really well done. I don't really watch a lot of TV at home though.
I did not and do not like Tales because they were too human. I mean what was the point of them being ponies? ( I was *not* into dolls as a child.). For me it has always been more about the toys.
So much this! As a tot, I didn't relate to "human" characters. I LOVED the fantasy world of magic and unicorns and pegasus ponies who could FLY. I looked like this when I excitedly tuned into MLP and "saved by the bell ponies" I mean TALES came on instead! :X I was heartbroken! (my real thought at the time was degrassi jr high ponies... but I don't think those south of our border would get the reference). YEP hated dolls. I liked animals, and fantasy animals.
Toys, obviously G1 is my personal preference. Body style, the sweet eyes. I love bouncy curls, or the cute bob cut on the straight hair ponies. we got better accessories imo. sometimes a lot of thought went into colour combos of sets. I give away most g4 acc. and wish the combs came in cuter more unique shapes. But I love some of the new toys, and the symbols/colour combos on a lot of them. I much prefer the redesign to g2, g3 and the travesty that was 3.5 and prefer the sizing because I can pick up the unique characters I think are pretty while not worrying if I am still sticking to my "other gens get to share one cabinet in the office" rule.
Durability..... it seems the g4's fade quiet easily based on what I have been finding second hand, and if my research is correct some of the now banned nasties in older 80's toys keeps them looking nicer for longer. more stable pigments, more durable paints, etc. I think we may have to be more protective of newer toys for damage from play/handling and degrading under poor temp control and UV.
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To me, the G1 cartoon is very poorly put together, with lackluster animation and design, plots that seem slapped together, and overall is pretty much in the 80s lines of cartoons designed to sell toys with little time, effort, or money put into production.
Mostly true points - but the G1 cartoon has to be taken in the context of the time it was made. Animation was /incredibly/ time consuming back in the 80's if you weren't pulling a Flimation (stock motions/character sequences with just the lip-flaps being animated for most shots). That wouldn't have really worked for MLP given the broad cast of characters. I'd wager more time and effort was spent on the 80's version than FiM - goes to show you how much leverage technology has in regards to animation quality.
On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, "it was a product of its time, but its time was low-quality" is a perfectly legitimate reason not to like something. (It's the reason I didn't like any 70s animation as a kid, except Scooby Doo.)
Also, "MLP & Friends" really wasn't typical 80s animation. It was below average 80s animation. Compare it to Thundercats or Rainbow Brite or TMNT . . . MLP & Friends wasn't "the" worst, but it was pretty bottom-of-the-barrel.
However, it did have good voice-acting, while Care Bears for example had terrible voice acting. (Referring to the CB series here, not the movie. The movie was great.)
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Mm, and it's far more fair to compare it with cartoons that came out around the same time - MLP&F was by no means the best of the lot. That said, there was no shortage of poor animation in the era. Poor/average was far more common than good unless you were looking at stuff from Disney and a few of the overseas studios, for the most part. A lot of shows had an absolutely brutal pace when it came to episode releases; quantity rather than quality and the end product suffered for it.
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Oh yes there are a very few people in G1! Good catch AL-1701. Why is that a bad thing? Please explain.
Thanks everypony for participating! However, this isn't about Thundercats, Transformers or G3 so you are all off topic. :biggrin: I'm just kidding!
What is RAMC?
As for G4 toys being tiny, yes there are those but there are also big ones. I like the Funko Series 5 vinyls, Rarity is over 5" tall and my Cadance is almost 6" tall. The new ones are sometimes of terrible production quality though, big gaps in the parts and seams on the faces but I found some played-with ones a few years old that are of really good production quality, no gaps and the seams are well finished and the material seems to be harder than the ones I bought new last December. These seem like their colors are going to last. So buy used ones maybe and get clear pics of the actual items, don't buy based on a standard product picture. These look really good together with my G1s which as of today number 5! BBE Likety Split arrived with accessories including her pull duck.
I have noticed one of the animation errors I heard about: Molly's lips did Shady's line and it was a little bit creepy. Animation quality wasn't the best in G1 but I'm still enjoying it very much.
Don't forget to comment on the contents of the show too! Thanks!
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As for G4 toys being tiny, yes there are those but there are also big ones. I like the Funko Series 5 vinyls, Rarity is over 5" tall and my Cadance is almost 6" tall. The new ones are sometimes of terrible production quality though, big gaps in the parts and seams on the faces but I found some played-with ones a few years old that are of really good production quality, no gaps and the seams are well finished and the material seems to be harder than the ones I bought new last December. These seem like their colors are going to last. So buy used ones maybe and get clear pics of the actual items, don't buy based on a standard product picture. These look really good together with my G1s which as of today number 5! BBE Likety Split arrived with accessories including her pull duck.
RAMC - is rescue at midnight castle. :) guilty pleasure of mine, my favorite g1 special!
Oh I know they come in other sizes. I notice many complain about how small the "brushables" are but they are adorable and don't take up the real estate a g1 adult does, so what others see as a drawback I view as an advantage. :D I have a number of fashion style ponies (mostly thanks to Twinks) and found her a Zilla pony at Value Village.... I still need to find one for myself.... I sort of miss Twilight. I do like the variety and the blindbags remind me of the mini carebears/SSC figures from the 80's. I resisted them (to save money) until a friend here wanted us to collect them together. G4's actually got me enthused, mostly with more unique characters. not like "I guess I am here and try and find a pretty one" that mostly happened with g3 except for the very odd one I did love.
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Ah rescue at midnight castle yes I saw that one first, the animation looks like He-Man or Thundercats to me. I noticed that G1 Tirek chains the ponies to the floor with heavy metal neck collars and in G4 he chains them by the leg. The 80s are more raw that way. In both G1 and G4 Tirek doesn't kill any ponies though, and the Alicorns take advantage of that when they give their magic to Twilight without fear of him killing them for it.
I just happened to find out what Zilla size is a few minutes ago so this time I don't have to ask. I am probably going to buy one in Rarity, I am buying a 6" fashion size Rarity and the same person has a Zilla size and if they combine shipping, I will get it too.
I appreciate the small toys, you can definitely have more of them, but I also like toys to be big and heavy. I like something I can hold in both hands. I love the softness of the G1 ponies, and I plan to get some of the bigger G1s too, but the G4 series 5 Funkos are solid and very heavy and I like that a lot. I got one of those expensive Hikari figures too which is even bigger and has a really nice face but it is hollow and weighs nothing...plus mine suffers from poor assembly quality and has gaps.
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I guess I'm a bit of an odd one, as I vastly prefer the G1 cartoon/s and toyline ^^;
I'm unable to watch FiM as the animation seems too... cookie-cutter (I don't quite know how to explain it), flat and bland, plus I generally dislike 'slice-of-life'-type stories. I prefer the G1 animation, despite all its flaws (which I didn't actually notice as a child but now it's fun to try and spot them) it has more 'life' to me and more adventure-ey type themes. Also it's not an incredibly long series, so I can watch the whole thing with my limited patience :)
The fact that the show focuses on a core group of ponies which rarely vary also annoys me, but this is mainly due to the endless rehashes of the Mane Six that we get in the toyline which always remind me of Core 7...
In regards to the toyline, I prefer the G1 toys for being larger, sturdier, and just the general feeling of quality that they have. The G4 brushables have so little in the way of hair... (I'm not a vinyl/figure collector) and they are just so tiny. I tried to like them, I really did, but alas... I also think that the lack of poses play a big role in this, a pose just gives a pony so much personality....
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Crystal-Sushi,
you are not alone. Several people say those exact things but usually not so eloquently.
...Except for the cookie-cutter part, maybe that is the cold precision of the computer-generated animation, and you prefer the hand-made animation?
I like both the accuracy of computer generated and the charm and warmth of the handmade style.
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Ahh there is sooo much to say about the G1 and G4 cartoons! I will have to put my thoughts in order and think about that. Everyone else here has made some great points already.
My pros and cons for the toy lines:
G1:
-I like that they are the proportion of real ponies instead of stylized with big heads and little bodies (when G4 first came out, a lot of collectors were calling them 'my little deer' because they aren't really horse/pony shaped)
-I like that they weren't afraid to use a WIDE variety of colors, whereas I notice G4 (and even G3) have purple/pink as a major color on like 50% of the characters
-I like that they have symbols on both sides so you can display them facing different directions
-I love all the different poses, because it adds character to the toys while on display
-I like that even newborn ponies already had a symbol (even if it was always baby-themed, which leads to the question if baby symbols evolve as a pony grows or if a pony would be stuck with, like, a crib symbol even as an adult... lol)
-I like that there are 100+ different characters so there is plenty to collect!
-A lot more variety of species (not just earth/pegasus/unicorn, but flutters, wingers, seaponies, merponies, animal 'cousins', baby dragons, bushwoolies, etc)
G4:
-I like that they have turning heads
-I like that they are still affordable, at about $5
-While I personally don't like that they are small, my friend with a 3-year-old girl says the size is perfect for her small hands (she also really loves the blind bags and carries them around in a little kid purse lol)
In both toylines I dislike the human/EG dolls, but that's just personal preference for me.
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G1 is closest to my heart, I love the beauty and variety in the sets, colors, symbols and species and the lush animation, the adventure and danger and varied lands and its residents they came in contact with. Plus the toys have quality, thick hair and are not likely to turn into dust or goop or whatever happens when plastic gives its last hurrah for a long time to come. It gave us seven species, two I didn't even know existed till the internet
It's not perfect though. The voice acting and some of the songs can be irritating, particularly the baby ponies and big bros.
People today complain about the animation errors, but really that was par for the course of Many 80s and 90s cartoons. My answer to this, I'd like to see you draw 65 highly detailed episodes and a movie by hand, cuz I sure couldn't do it. Me personally, I like spotting stuff like that in everything from MLP to the Super Mario Bros. Super Show, to Denver the Last Dinosaur.
Our toys have problems too and its not always due to age. Also the boys poses are so static I can't tell one from another.
G4 did bring adventure back into the show and I do like some of the color schemes and symbols, but the show feels cookie-cutter. Its not the only show that does this though, its okay but not my thing.
They also brought in a new and old species as well as gender diversity between the species. Changelings and Unipegs/Alicorns. I am okay with the Changelings because they are supposed to be a hybrid of bug and pony. I hope to see Unipegs in more horselike gens.
I dont like the way they look. Their heads are so unhorselike that it turns me away. I've had a grand total of four G4s in my possession and then I would look at my model horse and G1/G3 collection and get irritated. I gave them away.
I also dislike re-releases of the same toys and its true that MLP is hardly the only toy-or comic based cartoon guilty of this, but even Transformers bring back plenty of obscure characters that most people forgot/disliked/didn't give a crap about. The lack of diversity in the toylines kinda kills it.
The BBs are cute and varied and much easier to display in terms of space, they're kinda like Breyer Mini Whinnies in that respect. Plus Hasbro totally lets you cheat, so its easier to find what you want and they look better then the BB TFs.
Plus they are good for kids who don't like to brush hair.
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I expect I'm going to reiterate what some people have already said in some parts of my answer to this so apologies for anything that sounds like it was copy pasted from someone else's post - I haven't had a chance to read every single reply.
I am a G1 person, so getting out of the way first and foremost that G4 will never be anywhere close to equal to G1 in my heart or my logic senses as a personal opinion...comparing and contrasting is an interesting discussion point.
I come at this from a different angle than some of the posts I read above. I disagree with the idea that G4 is better characterised, but that is not because of the G1 animation, so my information base is slanted slightly in a different direction. I grew up with the UK comics and books and fact file etc as the definitive word on the ponies and their characters. As a child I had 4 animated episodes, all of which I had some issues with based on the MLP world of the UK and the animated MLP world from the US. For me, growing up, if it disagreed with the comics, it was wrong. If the pony wasn't in the comics/fact file, she didn't exist. And the ponies' true names were the ones used on their cards and in the comics, bar none. So, based on these four episodes, I came to believe the following things as a child:
1. Milkweed and Tumbleweed, Scoops did not exist. Nor did Cupcake or Truly.
2. Animators got names wrong, eg Sweet Stuff instead of Sweetie
3. Continuity was suspect. I was always mystified by how Revolt of PE seemed to join PE and Lullabye Nursery, as Cuddles and buggy went IN lullabye nursery and then were in PE instead.
Obviously, getting online allowed me to learn that point 1 was a matter of distribution, US vs UK, and 2 was about US marketing names, rather than the names in the UK. (Maybe when they imported it, they thought we kids wouldn't notice. I noticed)
These 'flaws' aside, I did love the episodes I had. I was repulsed by the characterisation of some of the characters in later episodes I saw, though. Particularly Magic Star and Shady, neither of whom lived up to the 'comic default'. Wind Whistler remains the only pony whose G1 animated persona trumps the comic one for me.
And, even if the names of ponies like 'Sweet Stuff' were not wrong, the animation did sometimes get the names wrong. Princess Amethyst/Sparkle is 'Lilac' in Quest of the Princess Ponies and I think there's another name error with one of the boys in Somnambula.
So the G1 animation formed a faulty canon in terms of ponies, their names, how their world worked, etc. There wasn't much continuity or connection between episodes, you didn't see much development from one ep to another (Flutter Valley was an exception) and, sometimes, the cast of ponies changed entirely because of what was on sale.
Of course, MLP Tales counteracts a lot of those issues by having continuity and character development on a deeper level, but that was later and I never saw it till I was in my teens anyway.
This is all pretty negative, reading back over it. But my point really was that to me the animation was irrelevant in my G1 world as a kid. I loved the eps I had but didn't consider them 'proper' pony stories, because that was what the comics did. The fact they only came out here on VHS added to that arbitrariness. You could not watch the whole series through. I think that's only really possible now, but I confess I don't know the order of the episodes beyond the specials.
What I do love about the G1 animation is the quirks. The songs. Individual moments like North Star ringing the bell (this amuses me every time she does it, don't ask xD). And I do like that it has darker elements, but some of the deeper themes - ie Katrina and drugs - I didn't clock onto until I was older. Someone mentioned moralistic stories - I actually think the G1 themes are sometimes buried in the subtext to the point they might not have been obvious to the kids watching. Compared with Thundercats, though, that's a good thing.
So in summary...comics first. G1 animation second. But G1 toys - that's another matter. Hasbro experimented and not all the experiments worked (Flutters) but there was creativity and a sense of genuine love behind these creations somewhere in the process. Someone who painstakingly sat down to create ideas, characters - yes, it was all about a profit, but Barbie in the 1980s proved you didn't need to give the toy a character or even make a different character to sell it. Hasbro created tons of characters, different countries had different lines, and the sheer variety of the ideas they gave to us is something that no generation since can or ever will be able to beat.
In terms of G4. I don't feel Hasbro has that creative spark with the toys, now, because they are creating disposable toys for a fad, rather than a collection. Hasbro in the 1980s pitched the idea of collecting all the ponies throughout the year the toy was available, but G4 is designed to fit the modern mindset of going on to something else within a short time. Some kids won't, of course, but the line repeats and repeats to bring in new people, rather than hold on to them. There is no continuity there, so while I pick up the brushables I find cute, especially when I'm travelling, I don't consider them anything near what G1 devised.
And the TV series. FIM. I honestly have only watched about half of season 1. I apologise to fans of FIM but I really couldn't get into it. I think that the eps I saw were very well crafted, but they didn't reach me in any way. I am someone who can overanalyse for Britain, but I didn't connect to FIM as something that I wanted to dig into deeper. Again, I guess I liked individual character moments - Rarity's distinction between whining and complaining is still my favourite FIM clip ever, and probably why I have more Rarity than any other G4 brushable. (Or maybe it's because she reminds me of Glory). I think what I didn't like about G4 was that it tries too hard to be funny, and because it does, it captures the characters in a cliche that they then struggle to escape from. Thinking back to G1, I'm sure those cliches are there too - but the structure is so different, I don't think it can be compared. I have several issues with G1 animated characterisations, too, but they're different issues.
I actually enjoyed the Equestria Girls stuff more so far (haven't seen Friendship Games yet). I think with Rainbow Rocks it was because of the clear influence of Jem, my other collecting passion. I think that, on reflection, the G4 animation is much like the toy. It's catering to a modern mindset driven by the meme and the popularity of a fad that sparks and then fades. I haven't watched enough to know if this is true for all of the series, but I think there's a very modern and polished mentality to it which gives the sense that it's all designed to be that way. And, because it is, there's no room for the quirks that G1 had. I want to say that G1 is more real, but it's about mediaeval style fantasy society with rainbow coloured ponies, so maybe that's not the right word. But you could sense the human touch and the human error in something that was being created...whereas G4 is sparkly and shiny but doesn't have that touch for me. (I know some people will disagree, this is just my opinion).
I think maybe Jem has influenced this for me, too ,because so many of the people who worked on Jem are so actively involved in the fan events and fandom and many are still passionate about their work on the show. Some of those people also crossed over heavily into MLP, so I have a sense of the kind of minds that went into creating G1. I know there are arguments that similar love went into G4 - and that's not a debate I want to raise in this thread, so at this point, I will end :)
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When it comes to the toys, G1 wins hands down. There is so much more variety and creativity with them. I also think the G4 ponies are just too small and they all should have been about as big as the fashion style ponies.
I grew up with the G1 cartoons (both the original and Tales). I have to admit, to this day, when I watch the original, I cringe. I just think the animation and voice acting is awful. I do think Firefly's Adventure is pretty awesome, though. But the TV series....ugh. The way the ponies are drawn is super cute most of the time, but everything else about it.... to me, it's bad. I can see why some like it for nostalgic reasons, and simply because it's G1. I did enjoy it as a child, but now that I'm grown up and love animation (big anime fan here), I just see how sloppily put together it was.
However, I am a BIG fan of MLP Tales. I think I may actually like Tales just a little more than FiM. Maybe because it's nostalgia for me. I loved it as a kid. I preferred it over the TV series obviously. I remember watching it after school everyday and I was so stoked when it was finally released on DVD. The main 7 characters are very likeable to me and seem to be characterized pretty well. I like the slice of life feel to the show. And some of the songs are catchy.
About FiM, I love it. I think it's a great show. Although, I haven't seen past season 2. What I have seen, I like. I need to watch more, definitely. I'm kind of scared to watch past season 2 based on things I've heard but I'm not a picky person. Maybe I should just watch it. But I love the art style and the humor the show has.
So for me, it goes MLP Tales, FiM, then the original TV series.
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As far as the shows go, I think each is a product of it's time. G1 has some serious sloppiness issues but I find it really fun due to the sheer weirdness of so many of the plots. It's pretty much what you would expect for the quality of a show aimed at girls during the 80s. G4 similarly has very modern sensibilities, which can be a bit of a downfall because I am pretty sure it will not age particularly gracefully. I enjoy aspects of the show but find it's tends to try too hard to be funny, and it almost never works for me. I have to admit though, as a person who viscously hates Flash animation, G4 looks really great. I usually only really enjoy the season openers, finales, and EQG stuff though anymore, although other ones do catch my fancy sometimes.
I can totally see G4 toys being a great size for a child's hands though! I find them a tad too small for myself though. I also don't like the feel of their molds as much as G1 and especially G3, which fit into my hand very well. Besides that though I think the toys would be great, but almost all of the new ones have AWFUL frizzy tails. :mad: The manes are usually fine, but the tails just ruin the whole experience for me, I really wish they would fix that. Of course, more variety would be a plus too!
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because they are creating disposable toys for a fad, rather than a collection. Hasbro in the 1980s pitched the idea of collecting all the ponies throughout the year the toy was available, but G4 is designed to fit the modern mindset of going on to something else within a short time. Some kids won't, of course, but the line repeats and repeats to bring in new people, rather than hold on to them.
I think this is valuable insight into the differences between the two lines. Very well said! It feels like the current line of brushables and Styling Size ponies is all about bringing in new fans who might have just discovered the tv show, and also producing smaller and less expensive toys that parents won't feel bad about splurging on if a kid suddenly spots a blind bag, etc. while in the toy store. While the 80's line was about developing the young fanbase they had--"Be a My Little Pony mommy" was one of the advertising taglines, implying you have to care for all those little toys you had. And not just MLP but many toylines back then emphasized the "collect them all!" idea (it was big in the 90's too).
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I prefer g1, almost entirely for toy quality reasons as I'm not much of a pony cartoon person outside of g3. G1 ponies are made much sturdier and with better quality materials, whereas my g4 brushables are proving more difficult to maintain because they're fading/deteriorating so quickly and have rougher hair.
Though I understand that's a case of them both being products of their time, as regulations on toy safety and the mindsets of companies and consumers alike have changed a lot in 30 years. I think it's quite likely that the growing list of materials disallowed in children's toys these days has affected how stable they can make the plastic/synthetic hair, and I notice with many things that the 80s and 90s had more of a "built to last" mentality, with today's market being much more "cheap and easily replaceable" oriented. I find it particularly noticeable with computers, and well, ponies. :P
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In terms of G4. I don't feel Hasbro has that creative spark with the toys, now, because they are creating disposable toys for a fad, rather than a collection. Hasbro in the 1980s pitched the idea of collecting all the ponies throughout the year the toy was available, but G4 is designed to fit the modern mindset of going on to something else within a short time. Some kids won't, of course, but the line repeats and repeats to bring in new people, rather than hold on to them. There is no continuity there, so while I pick up the brushables I find cute, especially when I'm travelling, I don't consider them anything near what G1 devised.
This is it exactly. And, Hasbro's 80's marketing would have worked perfectly on me. I DID want them all. my parents had other ideas. If I were a child who got toys for things besides maybe ONE on birthday/Christmas I would have had one of those massive, massive childhood collections. I am not the only "child" who used Hasbro leaflets and annual checklists for creating dream/wishlists.
G4 I do the same. get one here or there that strikes my fancy. G1 I collect reissues, but other lines are precisely want you say. marketed as a passing, brief fancy so each new wave can easily buy the core characters, and any long term pony obsessed child is annoyed with the lack of variety and constant reissues of the same ponies over and over.
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In terms of G4. I don't feel Hasbro has that creative spark with the toys, now, because they are creating disposable toys for a fad, rather than a collection. Hasbro in the 1980s pitched the idea of collecting all the ponies throughout the year the toy was available, but G4 is designed to fit the modern mindset of going on to something else within a short time. Some kids won't, of course, but the line repeats and repeats to bring in new people, rather than hold on to them. There is no continuity there, so while I pick up the brushables I find cute, especially when I'm travelling, I don't consider them anything near what G1 devised.
This is it exactly. And, Hasbro's 80's marketing would have worked perfectly on me. I DID want them all. my parents had other ideas. If I were a child who got toys for things besides maybe ONE on birthday/Christmas I would have had one of those massive, massive childhood collections. I am not the only "child" who used Hasbro leaflets and annual checklists for creating dream/wishlists.
G4 I do the same. get one here or there that strikes my fancy. G1 I collect reissues, but other lines are precisely want you say. marketed as a passing, brief fancy so each new wave can easily buy the core characters, and any long term pony obsessed child is annoyed with the lack of variety and constant reissues of the same ponies over and over.
They still pitch the idea of collecting them all. It's just they feel the time they are interested in them is shorter than it was in the 80s. And unfortunately that is true with tech toys grabbing their attention as well as the media pushing girls to grow up too fast. It's maybe a couple of years before girls they decide they are "too old for ponies" and start cooing over boy bands and posting selfies on snapchat.
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There really has been a huge paradigm shift in the way toys are made, marketed and consumed.
The demographics have stratified over the decades quite significantly - in the 80's, it wasn't unusual to find MLP being bought and played with by kids as young as three and into their mid-teens. That kind of spread is unheard of these days for most toy lines. Hasbro did focus on their core demographic (6-10, if I had to guess) but part of what made MLP so successful was the broad appeal. All my friends had ponies, even the ones who were more into Barbie. Now toys aren't made to last because the companies that make them know the vast majority of the kids are going to be 'done' with them well before they fall apart. They only have to survive a couple years before most kids are onto the next big thing.
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I've seen both. All of both. Although it's been a while for g1. I remember g1 being very similar to other cartoons of it's time. Care bears for instance. The story lines are the basic bad guys do bad things or bad things happen and the characters must find a way to fix everything.
I actually prefer g4. They do repeat several ideas, but less violence, promoting kindness to others, and zecora.
As far as toys go... want them all! :)
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You had a good point, yes G1 had more variety so the same child could collect ponies for years and have just new ones every year, but now most kids aren't interessed much in toys as they were before, mostly because of tablets and stuff like that.Kids have a shorter attention span for toys, so the line doesn't need to captivate them for a long time.
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On the subject of the cookie-cutter look to FiM, blame their usage of Flash. Flash is a puppet manipulation program. You make an object, and then you can manipulate its different parts. The people at DHX really only have a few designs they just recolor and add random things (like facial hair) to make different ponies. That's why it seems like every new male pony has that lanky design.
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But the plus side to Flash is that it makes it easier to animate certain things. I do love the way G4 has the walking/ running down in a way that actually looks like horses run.
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I prefer G1. Both the show and toyline.
The toyline part isn't hard to explain. The G4 line is dull beyond belief.
As for the show...sure, G4 has a bigger budget, cleaner animation and it's more "modern".
But it lacks a few things that are important to me.
First of all, i love how wild and crazy G1 Ponyland is. It feels like a place were everything and anything can happen. Compared to Ponyland Equestria is kinda dull. After 5 seasons we have still not seen all that much of it and i'm not impressed by places like Manehattan. They feel too...human.
In fact that is the second problem with FIM. Everything is too human.
The G1 cartoon made the ponies seem more like magical creatures. They also simply felt more ponylike to me. G4 ponies on the other hand look more like humans (those faces + facial hair) and they lead humanlike lives. They get born in hospitals, they go to school, they get a job, they get sick and they die.
The life of a regular G4 pony isn't very fantastical.
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"It's more 'relatable'" as a certain lupine would say. I think someone need to sit writers and critics alike down and explain the difference between being "relatable" and being "sympathetic" to them.
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Sunset, Excellent point about the hoof sounds, thank you.
The show makers studied movement of real horses to produce that accuracy (according to the Art of Equestria I think) and that is one of the things that grabbed me from the very beginning....they trot, run, and walk with perfect horse quadruped gait...from the scene where Twilight gallops over the rise in the path in the first episode, to when in the Crusaders of the Lost Mark episode Diamond Tiara storms off angrily (canter?) after Silver Spoon shuts her mouth for her, to Silver Spoon's slow walk away afterwards saying "What? I don't have to follow her drama anymore".
I love the hooves sound! It's the Best!
Malicieuse, their being quadrupeds trumps all that other human stuff. :P Seriously though, excellent point: Ponyland is much more wild and unpredictable than Equestria ...most of the time, except season endings...