The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: Tak on January 28, 2016, 02:51:59 PM
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original thread :
Can anyone write down a clear definition of the terms used in selling. Specifically for the arena. A picky collector's opinion of great condition is a whole lot different than someone who's newer, has lower income, likes cleaning, or just has a lower standard. I apparently didn't describe a pair of ponies correctly to a buyer. I honestly did my best to make their flaws clear and didn't see some that she says are there. I'm refunding all she paid and she can dispose of the ponies as she wants or I can pay her to ship them back no problem. If she's not happy I'll do whatever in my power to make it right. Not sure if having a dispute on my PayPal effects my feedback ratings here or on eBay and it certainly wasn't necessary with me.
Please can someone help with a pinned list of condition definitions on the arena? I would hate to disappoint someone ever again. :cloud:
A brief overview of this whole thread which has now been modified and updated since the buyer has also now replied (more details if you read all of the posts) :
The buyer jamiedey5 (Arena ID) jammiepie5 (ebay ID ) and Tak the seller had what seemed to be a difference of opinion on condition of some ponies. Jamiedey said that the ponies had more flaws than described and smelled mouldy and so she wanted a refund. She opened a case before TAk could refund her, but then closed it when she saw that the seller Tak had refunded her ( jamiedey5/jammiepie5) and then Tak let her keep the ponies too. Jamie did not ask Tak to let her keep the ponies, that was Tak's decision.
Tak asked for further advice here about describing conditions as she was new to selling and didn't want to disappoint other buyers. She had in fact described that they were not perfect, but opinions on conditions do differ and Tak is still learning so mistakes can be made .
After that everything seemed to be resolved between buyer and seller and the buyer left the seller good feedback. :awake:
The original messages between the two can be seen in the thread :awake:
There was some question then as to whether Jamie then went on to sell the ponies from Tak on ebay for a profit. A lot of members including Tak the seller would have assumed the same thing having seen those listings but Jamie has since clarified that they were not the same ponies.
Having your name in the thread title in TS can be a shock sometimes but it is not uncommon and can help alert the other person to the thread to explain and work things out. It also alerts other members to any potential issues, whether that be differences of opinion on condition or anything else, and shows usually both sides of the situation. If someone makes a TS thread about another member, and the other person involved in the transaction then wants to add their point of view they are more than welcome of course because then everyone can usually still talk through this situation and understand it better ;)
Jamie has not been called a scammer in the thread title I edited to include her name as other members asked for the name and it is not wrong to add the name to a thread - as stated above.
~ Ringlets TS Mod
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Clear and many pictures is the best way to describe ponies and at the same time pointing out any flaws that cannot be pictured like smell, if the pony rattles, if it has problems standing, and pointing out anything that can easily be missed in the photos. Also, let the buyer know if there has been any customization of any kind.
All sellers go about describing ponies differently. Just beware of calling any pony mint unless you absolutely are sure there are no flaws. Even some ponies on the card and in the box may have flaws and their cards may be flawed as well.
Just keep in mind that you can't please everyone all of the time but you can do your best to make sure your buyer is happy by offering a return and refund and you'll pay return shipping.
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Bluerose has some great tips. One thing you might try is looking at the pony in different kinds of light. Look at the pony inside your home and also outside. This might help you notice flaws that you wouldn't have noticed otherwise. Mint to me would mean no flaws at all whereas near mint would mean one or two minor things. Also some ponies bright hair colors can stain the pony under the mane so that is something to look for and mention also.
Ponyfan
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Pictures are the most important thing. Collectors will always have a wide range of opinions on what "good condition" means. There's no way to really pin down the definition of "very good" vs "good" vs "fair. In the old days before everyone had such easy access to digital pictures, we used to write descriptions in great detail describing every imperfection, but now taking clear pictures in good lighting is a lot easier for both the buyer & seller.
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I know how stressful it can be when you have a buyer who is unsatisfied. I usually panic. I want everyone to be happy. I believe what makes a good seller is how they can handle a transaction that has a problem. You are offering to pay a full refund (and return shipping)! That's great.
I think both photos and a description are important. There are times where a camera (intentionally or not) won't pick up on subtle flaws.
I usually assume the worst when listing ponies. I don't think I believe in mint. o_o; I try to just cover everything I can think of in order. I look at the body for any specific marks (are they surface, can they come out with cleaning, are they deep in the plastic, do I even know if can ever come out?!). Paint for any rubs. Hair for dryness (ends, all of it), fading, cuts, rust... etc etc etc.
Once I forgot to check the feet for markings. u_u; whoops. It had been a pony in my collection for years, I never look at the feet. :) Now I do.
And at best just put "I'm a new collector, I might miss flaws, please contact me if there is any specific things you are looking for". That way they know it's possible you can miss a flaw.
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I have found that having a sort of form to fill out helps me spot flaws a lot better, and gives much better descriptions. I stay away from rating ponies or using specific terms to list the condition of the pony. I also keep "the only surprises a buyer/trader should get are good ones" firmly in my mind. I'd rather have a buyer pass up my pony than have an unhappy buyer, so I don't try to sell my ponies - I report on them.
In addition to multiple clear photos from several angles, for each pony, I fill out this "form":
Body:
Hair:
Symbol:
Eyes:
Paint:
Other:
Body: I list anything I see wrong with the body including plastic damage, dirt(surface and permanent), smooze, marks, scuffs, regrind, stains, general playwear, age spots, and head/body mismatches. I also give detailed information about the location of any flaws I find.
Hair: I list any hair issues including trims, cuts, frizz, fading, rough hair, tail rust, or damaged tinsel.
Symbol: I list any damage to the symbol including scuffs, scratches, fading, or missing/bleeding symbols.
Eyes: I list any damage to the eye including scuffs, scratches, and faded/damaged eyelashes.
Paint: I list any damage to the rest of the paint(blush, TAF style painted areas, etc) including scuffs, scratches, fading, or missing/bleeding paint.
Other: This is the catch all for anything else including weird smells, rattling, and those odd things you sometimes find with ponies that defy explanation.
Having this kind of thing to fill out forces me to look at every part of the pony, and it cuts down on the follow up questions from people who are picky about one particular thing. After I've filled out the form and taken the pictures, I will give a general summery about what I think of the pony. "Displays nicely", "overall lovely", "not for the picky collector", "collection quality", etc...
I try to avoid using words like "mint" and "excellent" because they're often overused by sellers who aren't very good at finding flaws.
An example of a filled out form would be like this(and of course I include clear pictures of everything mentioned, and the pony as a whole):
Body: Small mark on left back foot. Appears to be pen. Less than a quarter inch, but probably permanent. Pony has average playwear, but should display well for the non picky collector.
Hair: Uncut and smooth
Symbol: Symbols intact except for a tiny scratch on the non display side. Less than an 8th of an inch and very hard to see.
Eyes: No flaws I can see.
Paint: Blush is good and undamaged.
Other: No other issues I can see.
Overall a very nice pony for the non-mint collector. Pony has some usual playwear and doesn't feel new, but the hair is very nice. Pony has very few marks or damage, and is generally a lovely pony.
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I have found that having a sort of form to fill out helps me spot flaws a lot better, and gives much better descriptions. I stay away from rating ponies or using specific terms to list the condition of the pony. I also keep "the only surprises a buyer/trader should get are good ones" firmly in my mind. I'd rather have a buyer pass up my pony than have an unhappy buyer, so I don't try to sell my ponies - I report on them.
In addition to multiple clear photos from several angles, for each pony, I fill out this "form":
Body:
Hair:
Symbol:
Eyes:
Paint:
Other:
Body: I list anything I see wrong with the body including plastic damage, dirt(surface and permanent), smooze, marks, scuffs, regrind, stains, general playwear, age spots, and head/body mismatches. I also give detailed information about the location of any flaws I find.
Hair: I list any hair issues including trims, cuts, frizz, fading, rough hair, tail rust, or damaged tinsel.
Symbol: I list any damage to the symbol including scuffs, scratches, fading, or missing/bleeding symbols.
Eyes: I list any damage to the eye including scuffs, scratches, and faded/damaged eyelashes.
Paint: I list any damage to the rest of the paint(blush, TAF style painted areas, etc) including scuffs, scratches, fading, or missing/bleeding paint.
Other: This is the catch all for anything else including weird smells, rattling, and those odd things you sometimes find with ponies that defy explanation.
Having this kind of thing to fill out forces me to look at every part of the pony, and it cuts down on the follow up questions from people who are picky about one particular thing. After I've filled out the form and taken the pictures, I will give a general summery about what I think of the pony. "Displays nicely", "overall lovely", "not for the picky collector", "collection quality", etc...
I try to avoid using words like "mint" and "excellent" because they're often overused by sellers who aren't very good at finding flaws.
An example of a filled out form would be like this(and of course I include clear pictures of everything mentioned, and the pony as a whole):
Body: Small mark on left back foot. Appears to be pen. Less than a quarter inch, but probably permanent. Pony has average playwear, but should display well for the non picky collector.
Hair: Uncut and smooth
Symbol: Symbols intact except for a tiny scratch on the non display side. Less than an 8th of an inch and very hard to see.
Eyes: No flaws I can see.
Paint: Blush is good and undamaged.
Other: No other issues I can see.
Overall a very nice pony for the non-mint collector. Pony has some usual playwear and doesn't feel new, but the hair is very nice. Pony has very few marks or damage, and is generally a lovely pony.
This is exactly what I always did as well as clear pics! :)
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Thank you all! :) this will help so much. I panicked a bit banditpony. I've been on the sour end as a buyer and never want to put anyone through that. Pictures are hard for me since all I have is a front facing camera on a tablet. I can always write more and I'm just trying to get ponies I don't have space for to people wanting ponies. The money really isn't important. :shrug: I already paid for them so I'm losing in my view.
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TBH, I worry that someone may be trying to take advantage of you, Tak; you mentioned that you are a newer collector in the past (and you've only been here, what, a month?), and sometimes less-than-savory figures will try to take advantage of someone's newness and scam them out of ponies by being rude/pushy. It's happened before that a "upstanding" member will pull borderline-scammy moves on new members, and no one notices for awhile because the newbies assume that it's their fault. :/
IMO, I would offer a refund IF the buyer offered to return the ponies; saying "keep the money and the ponies" is a pretty risky standard to set for a seller. (Plus, you don't deserve to lose the money AND the ponies! :hug: Paying return shipping would be a nice move on your part, or taking half of the cost out of the refund you give them would also be fair, from what I've seen, but other sellers may want to weigh in!)
IMO, I saw your sales thread, and I thought it was fairly standard; you set the prices and show the ponies so people can see the general quality. The prices, to me, seem petty standard and fair; nothing is wildly expensive, and we're not talking about hundred-dollar ponies here being mis-discribed. The photos could be better, sure, but if someone was REALLY concerned about the condition, I would think that they would PM you asking for a more detailed description. (Unless, of course, someone DID PM you for a description and you overlooked some bad marks, which can happen to all of us! Some of us are just pickier than others!) Usually, super-picky collectors will tell you so in a PM, so that you can go over the pony with a fine-tooth comb to make sure they'll be happy. (It's easier to do this in bright outside daylight, too; indoor lighting won't pick up all of the marks!)
Did the buyer already initiate a Paypal dispute without talking to you? That is also not a good sign, to me; Paypal gives you such a long window now (like 100 days or something?), I feel like you should always try to work things out personally with the seller before you escalate to that. :/
I've seen people make sales threads before that were standard "ponies are priced as shown, I don't have time to make detailed posts about every pony", and buyers accepted that they needed to eyeball the photos or move on if they were super picky. IDK, this is just my opinion, but I'm a little worried for you! :hug:
Also, everyone else has said this already, but there's no such thing as a 'universal standard' for pony quality, unfortunately! You just have to describe your sales ponies to the best of your ability, or do the classic 'take it or leave it' if you don't have the time! You'll lose the 'picky' buyers, but some folks won't mind. :)
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Hi have to be honest i had the same thoughs as snapdragon
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And I did too. Your sales thread makes it very clear you're selling to make space, the ponies aren't perfect, and they're priced accordingly. Please don't let the buyer keep the ponies!!
Jules x
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Hi have to be honest i had the same thoughs as snapdragon
This is my feeling as well. I saw Tak's sales thread as well and thought the photos were pretty standard for a general sales thread, especially given that the ponies were very reasonably priced. If I have a lot of ponies I'm wanting to sell, I like to group them up into categories. So I'll have a photo of all the bait condition ponies (with two views, one from display side and one from nondisplay side) with a set price per pony (like 3$ with discounts for purchasing multiples or something) and say something like: "All of these ponies have major flaws that require major restoration. These include but are not limited to: hair cuts, tail rust, major eye and symbol rubs, pony cancer, pindot, chew marks, regrind, marker and saddle sores. Each pony pictured below has MULTIPLE of these issues. These are not really suitable for display and instead would make great restoration or customization projects." and then move up from there. If I have mint or excellent condition ponies, ponies which have either no flaws or only one small flaw, I will list them in individual photos with a full rundown like goddessofpeep listed. If people want additional info on any of the bulk described ponies, they are encouraged to request additional photos.
I'm really concerned about the possibility of someone opening a paypal dispute without contacting you first though. Is that what happened? If so, that is just, incredibly not cool. I also think it's very generous of you to allow for a full refund and the buyer to keep the ponies.
I think we've definitely all had our fair share of selling and buying disappointments (as the many many threads on TS forum show!). When I first started selling, when I was like 18 and eBay was young I had a terrible experience that put me off collecting for years. Since then I haven't had too many issues though and I hope this will be the last problem for you as well.
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I'm really concerned about the possibility of someone opening a paypal dispute without contacting you first though. Is that what happened? If so, that is just, incredibly not cool.
I was thinking the same thing. If someone opened a Paypal dispute without trying to work things out with you first, that's really rude of them.
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I also want to point out if the buyer didn't ask for a description, that's on them. I don't mean to put you down about it, but it's obvious the pics aren't the best, so if marks are an issue, buyers should ask you about them/any. Generally speaking, if I see a pony listed for less than the 'normal' price, *even if it isn't said*, I would assume it has a few issues, whether they're visible in the pics or not.
We do have a few collectors who consider things flaws that you might not think about, such as loose heads or tails, but they usually ask about that in particular, I think.
The big thing for the future is remember to be extremely detailed when describing ponies in PM's, even if it isn't detailed on the sales thread. That prevents any misunderstandings. :)
I also agree the buyer should return the ponies to you, and depending on if they asked about flaws and if the description was accurate, they should maybe pay for the return shipping. I know you said it isn't about the cost, but in your situation, since you are a fairly new seller, it's more about establishing a policy for the future.
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She did pm and I sent better pictures with as accurate a description as possible. Says they smelled moldy and she opened one to find mold. After pm ing me she went to open a dispute and I was already processing the refund. Didn't see the dispute until after. She's pretty new on here as far as trades and posts.
You all make good points and I'll definitely apply them in the future. You've given me lots to consider.
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Tak, you may want to pm a Trader Support mod about your situation. Ringlets & ponylady are the mods in TS. They may be able to offer you some different input privately regarding your specific buyer, especially if the buyer is also a newer member & may not be up to date on the best way to handle being unsatisfied with their purchase. :bigups:
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Tak, you may want to pm a Trader Support mod about your situation. Ringlets & ponylady are the mods in TS. They may be able to offer you some different input privately regarding your specific buyer, especially if the buyer is also a newer member & may not be up to date on the best way to handle being unsatisfied with their purchase. :bigups:
Agreed. It's unfair of them to have opened up a case without even giving you a chance to make things right. We here on the Arena are a supportive group and hate to see our members both get a shady deal and get taken advantage of. This seems like the latter.
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She did pm and I sent better pictures with as accurate a description as possible. Says they smelled moldy and she opened one to find mold. After pm ing me she went to open a dispute and I was already processing the refund. Didn't see the dispute until after. She's pretty new on here as far as trades and posts.
You all make good points and I'll definitely apply them in the future. You've given me lots to consider.
IDK, I think that's a little unfair; my feeling is, if you post the ponies "as is" you're not responsible for what may turn up inside of the pony. You haven't done a full restoration or anything, so it's sort of a 'take your chances' kind of sale, especially since the ponies are mostly inexpensive ones. If they reeked of mold, sure, you have a duty to report it, but a lot of people A) can't recognize that smell or B) don't have a keen nose. If she's unhappy, sure, she should tell you, but ... filing a Paypal dispute is way outta line. :/
I do think someone may want to step in and let her know, in a gentle way, that it's considered pretty unkind to file a dispute before talking to the seller. Most sellers I know will try to make it right with a partial refund, or accept the pony back without needing a dispute to make them. But in general, I really dislike the concept of someone keeping the ponies AND the refund, unless it's an incredibly cheap sale (like a couple bucks) or the price of shipping is exorbitant and would cost more than the ponies themselves.
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I believe the total with shipping was $9.30. Just two ponies. I did let a mod know. It's such a low price that I consider it done and just want to prevent any avoidable future problems. :brow:
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Did you check feedback on the member before you started the sale?
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I whole-heartedly agree with everyone's suggestions and thoughts on your issue.
I have also looked at you sales thread and I will iterate what others have already said, your pictures are that of a typical sales thread, when you have lots to sell. I did not see what you had written before it was edited yesterday though but what you have written there now is clear and to the point about "as is" and ask questions. Which then leads me to my real concern, the lack of courtesy on your buyers part. They most certainly did not give you ample time to respond to the issue. Perhaps they are new but there are certain things when you are buying online, whether it be ponies or other goods, that you should follow. The one thing is to give your seller time to rectify the situation and not jump the gun opening a case, especially since you are new to selling. It can lead to mistakes on the sellers part. I personally would have requested the ponies be sent back before any sort of refund was given. Just because she opened a case does not mean you have to refund her and let her keep the ponies. Because honestly for that price and being in "fair" condition, a customizer or someone who restores would have been happy with them.
Anyways I see you have contacted a Mod already, so I will wait to see the whole situation before I respond any further.
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Thanks for your comments and suggestions everyone :bigups: :grouphug: I read the thread through and I agree you have some good advice there. I cant really add to it. I don't think you did anything wrong in the first place :hug: you sales thread looks fine. Your buyer is at fault for not talking things through with you the seller- and not giving you a chance to work things out first - before opening a case. That is very rude, and is not how we do things here. She is new so I think she needs to be tactfully told this, but she has been buying quite a lot of ponies....
Personally I would not have let the buyer keep the ponies as well as have a refund but if that's what you want to do, that is your choice.
PMd you :hug:
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Did you check feedback on the member before you started the sale?
I did. She doesn't have much, but you have to start somewhere.
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Did you check feedback on the member before you started the sale?
I did. She doesn't have much, but you have to start somewhere.
yes but they don't deserve free ponies for their mistakes. :( I hope that they learn and their behavior can improve.
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Did you check feedback on the member before you started the sale?
I did. She doesn't have much, but you have to start somewhere.
yes but they don't deserve free ponies for their mistakes. :( I hope that they learn and their behavior can improve.
This is how I feel, too. :( I understand you're trying to be nice and do the right thing as a seller, Tak, but this buyer might then think "well, if the seller made a mistake, then I'm entitled to free ponies," and that will make more problems for other sellers down the line. :( Especially as a new buyer, she may not realize that your kindness is not the way disputes are usually resolved. I'm just glad we have lovely mods here to make sure everyone plays fair! :hug:
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Regardless of anyone's opinion of what a condition term means, it is a buyer and a seller's responsibility to each do his or her due diligence when it comes to accurately describing AND interpreting condition and flaws.
So, don't beat yourself up. The main and most important thing, I feel, is that you went above and beyond to make things right. In light of that, you should be proud of yourself, regardless of whether or not you made a slight judgement error when advertising your items for sale.
We have all had our fair share of oopsies.
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Because the dispute was opened. Even with it quickly closed. PayPal now has a hold on all incoming payments until I reach three criteria. One of which is 'being in good standing' for sixty days. :(
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:(
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Lesson learned. Buyer is now selling the same ponies that were too nasty to pay $7 for as 'near mint' on her eBay for $12 each. -_-
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Wow that is totally gross behaviour!! So sorry this happened to you. There are some horrible people out there. :(
Jules x
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Lesson learned. Buyer is now selling the same ponies that were too nasty to pay $7 for as 'near mint' on her eBay for $12 each. -_-
have you left feedback for the buyer yet? I sure would, and it wouldn't be nice at this point!
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Lesson learned. Buyer is now selling the same ponies that were too nasty to pay $7 for as 'near mint' on her eBay for $12 each. -_-
That is abominable! It's one thing to buy ponies cheaply and re-sell them on eBay for a profit but it's something else entirely to scam down the price and flip them. Who is this person? They have some explaining to do! If they thought the ponies were so terrible they needed a refund for them why did they turn around and sell them as mint on eBay? They must have amazing restoration skills :hmm:
ETA: Definitely please leave them feedback to notify other sellers of this potential difficulty if you haven't already done so.
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Lesson learned. Buyer is now selling the same ponies that were too nasty to pay $7 for as 'near mint' on her eBay for $12 each. -_-
Please let us know what the Ebay ID is so we can avoid this person (who, if they are flipping ponies, is NOT likely a newbie regardless of FB)!!!
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Lesson learned. Buyer is now selling the same ponies that were too nasty to pay $7 for as 'near mint' on her eBay for $12 each. -_-
Please let us know what the Ebay ID is so we can avoid this person (who, if they are flipping ponies, is NOT likely a newbie regardless of FB)!!!
Agreed! I would love to know the eBay ID so I can avoid this seller/buyer at all cost!
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I would also like to know their eBay ID. That is really beyond the pale.
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Am I allowed to post that?
... a mod will take it right down if not allowed
Jammiepie5 on eBay.
She's new on here, but definitely not to internet sales.
Post Merge: February 10, 2016, 08:44:07 PM
At least most of the people I've interacted with on here have been awesome. It's a great group.
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FYI eBay is case-sensitive, so you have to not capitalize the first letter of the name.
But anyway, wow. Over 1,000 feedback. She should definitely know better than to treat someone like that.
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OMG!!! How shady!! I mean, if she didn't want them for her own collection, I guess I could understand reselling them, because she didn't want to keep them - but at a higher cost?! After getting them for free?! I don't want to deal with this person! :/
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:whoa: ok I understand there was some misunderstanding on condition between you both , and you were nice enough to let her keep the ponies for free and it all seemed to be sorted. A lot of us believed she was new - she is new to here...but she is not new to collecting or new to ebay- and that changes the way we view the situation - such as the way she handled this. All seemed fine , but now she is selling the ponies you let her have for free after she complained of condition, at a higher price than she got them from you for *and* she has them listed as "near mint"?! so she has her money, and your ponies, and she is selling them for a profit and not correctly described? . I understand her re-selling ponies that she doesn't want for her own collection but how she has gone about this is not right :( Thank you for updating us on the situation- it helps to protect the community and also warns others of potential issues dealing with this person :bigups:
Please do leave appropriate feedback, and BTW you are allowed to post Ebay and Arena IDs etc on here, just not personal stuff like real life names and their home addresses etc
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Jammiepie5 on eBay.
She's new on here, but definitely not to internet sales.
This eBay user has sent me lowball offers on auctions (not items with Best Offer) in the past with a lengthy message about how my items were not worth what I was asking!! I can see there may be a pattern here. :huh: This is definitely a person to keep an eye on, as she may be trying to manipulate others into getting deals.
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ugh! not good :crazy:
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Wow, I'd go so far to say she even scammed Tak out of the ponies! Especially after what kitkat said!
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Thank you for sharing your experience. I will be blocking this person on eBay.
I can't believe someone would open a case about condition, then turn around and list them for near mint. That's not someone I want to do business with.
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Can you post their Arena ID so we can steer clear here on the Arena? That is truly terrible what happened to you, I'm actually disgusted by their behavior. The Arena is really a wonderful, safe place to share your love of ponies, so I hope that you stay and this user hasn't tarnished your experience here.
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Can you post their Arena ID so we can steer clear here on the Arena? That is truly terrible what happened to you, I'm actually disgusted by their behavior. The Arena is really a wonderful, safe place to share your love of ponies, so I hope that you stay and this user hasn't tarnished your experience here.
I definitely agree it would be best to share this person's Arena ID. You are allowed and encouraged to warn others of potentially difficult users/scammers. The only thing you can't do is post real names, phone numbers etc...
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I've met too many great people on here to leave. Everyone here at home thinks it's crazy or just plain stupid to collect ponies. Except my daughter. Her user name is jamiedey5. Thank you all for being so supportive.
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I'm so sorry that happened to you Tak.
Ponyfan
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Tak I'm going to add the IDs to the title of your thread so that more people can see this. I'm also going to add parts of the rest of the thread to the original post so that the whole situation can be seen at the beginning too
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Thats disgusting. I will make sure never to deal with her. Your so lovwly tak sorry thos happened to, at the start her practises sounded all wrong so i not surprised to see she is some what of a scammer :/
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I won't be dealing with that person Tak, nor will I risk selling to them either. Thank you very much for the heads up on this matter!
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Because of what she did it seems like a total scam to get prices as low as she can. Plus she got to keep them for free? Ugh. I don't really sell anything (because I'm a pony hoarderrrrr and I'll never sell anything in my lifetime) but if I did that person would be auto blocked.
Also when I read the first post in its edited form I thought the OP was writing in third person, haha, I'm like this is so strange.
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I changed it around to put the thread overview under Taks original message now. Sorry I didn't realise it would sound so odd originally by putting it above :P :blush:
Of course if the buyer Jamiedey5 wants to come here and add her view/talk this through more then she is welcome to as well . As far as I can see she has not joined in the discussion yet :awake:
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That is a tacky thing to do to turn around and sale for a profit after basically scamming Tak! I've added the name to my ebay block list as well!
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Wow, what a terrible person! So sorry this happened to you, Tak. :/
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You should get your ponies back. Poor ponies shouldn't be with such a rude person. :/
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I changed it around to put the thread overview under Taks original message now. Sorry I didn't realise it would sound so odd originally by putting it above :P :blush:
Of course if the buyer Jamiedey5 wants to come here and add her view/talk this through more then she is welcome to as well . As far as I can see she has not joined in the discussion yet :awake:
Has anyone guided her to this thread? ;)
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original thread :
Can anyone write down a clear definition of the terms used in selling. Specifically for the arena. A picky collector's opinion of great condition is a whole lot different than someone who's newer, has lower income, likes cleaning, or just has a lower standard. I apparently didn't describe a pair of ponies correctly to a buyer. I honestly did my best to make their flaws clear and didn't see some that she says are there. I'm refunding all she paid and she can dispose of the ponies as she wants or I can pay her to ship them back no problem. If she's not happy I'll do whatever in my power to make it right. Not sure if having a dispute on my PayPal effects my feedback ratings here or on eBay and it certainly wasn't necessary with me.
Please can someone help with a pinned list of condition definitions on the arena? I would hate to disappoint someone ever again. :cloud:
A brief overview of this whole thread (more details if you read all of the posts) :
The buyer jamiedey5 (Arena ID) jammiepie5 (ebay ID ) and Tak the seller had what seemed to be a difference of opinion on condition of some ponies. Jamiedey said that the ponies had more flaws than described and smelled mouldy and so she wanted a refund. She opened a case before TAk could refund her, but then closed it when she saw that the seller Tak had refunded her ( jamiedey5/jammiepie5) and then Tak let her keep the ponies too.
Tak asked for further advice here about describing conditions as she was new to selling and didn't want to disappoint other buyers. She had in fact described that they were not perfect, but opinions on conditions do differ and Tak is still learning so mistakes can be made .
After that everything seemed to be resolved between buyer and seller and the buyer left the seller good feedback. :awake:
However it has now come to light that the buyer had since gone on to list the ponies for sale on ebay, not only for more money than she originally paid (although she had now had a full refund) - of course reselling is understandable if she didn't want them for her own collection although the price rise for supposedly more flawed ponies doesn't seem right - but she also described them in good condition with no mouldy smells etc in the listing although she had told her seller that the ponies had flaws that weren't described and smelled mouldy (the seller had originally listed that these ponies had flaws and were not perfect and sent extra pics to the buyer).
ETA - buyer: if those were *not* the same ponies you got from Tak then feel free to come and post here and explain. We want to be fair
Another member here has mentioned further in this thread that she had the same buyer trying to knock her ponies prices on ebay down too , without a best offer included in the listings , and messaged her with explanations as to why the ponies weren't worth what the other member asked for them
The buyer is new to the Arena , but she is not new to collecting or buying/selling on ebay
Just something to be aware of.
If the buyer wants to add her point of view she is more than welcome of course. Maybe we can still talk through this situation and understand it better?
~ Ringlets TS Mod
Ok I am deeply offended by this post and wish for it to be removed...this is complete slander of my name both here and on ebay...i have over 1k positive feedback on ebay and don't appreciate being made out to be a thief. I took screen shots of what went down between myself and TAK. This is completely uncalled for! I wanted to return the ponies to her and she told me to keep them?! ok how is this me being bad? i told her what was wrong with them upon delivery of package and asked to return for a refund. I also clearly asked her to look them over for me with a list of the things I find to not to be acceptable. I Buy and sell on ebay and only come to the Arena for my personal collection not to re sell. I do not restore moldy ponies so I had no need for Glory or Moondancer in such a state so I gave them both to a friend that does customs. She boils them down and strips them down to their shells. I made no profit on those ponies, I have sold several, of both of these 2 common ponies, on ebay because that's what i do...I BUY LOTS AND SELL INDIVIDUALLY ON EBAY...I come across tons of Glory and Moondancer ponies because they are common. below are our conversations of how it all went down. As you can see I am completely dumb founded that any of this is even being said. :shocked:
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OK, my concerns, Jamie, is that you say you come across "tons" of Moondancers and Glorys, yet none of them have been worthy of your collection? Seems odd to me. Especially since you don't seem that picky considering what I read in your conversation with Tak.
Another concern is how fast you opened a case on Tak without giving her a chance to issue you a refund. PayPal gives you I think 90 days, maybe it's even longer, to file a dispute. There was no reason to jump the gun.
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My correspondence with Jamie today.
Jamie wrote:
I really dont appreciate the slander and the way you drug my name through the dirt...as a FYI i did not re sell the ponies you sent me...i actually gave them to a friend that boils them down to their shells and makes customs out of them. I buy lots of ponies on ebay and sell them individually on ebay...i have sold several Glory and Moondancers (they are common) all with NO MOLD. i also sell from my private collection as needed. I did not ask for a full refund without retunring the ponies to you... you told me on your own to keep them. i thought we were on good terms then I have some one send me this thread of slanderous posts about me?! thats beyond messed up and i will be taking action to defend my name. >_<
I responded
I will say this on the thread, too. I'm sorry that I was wrong about you re-selling the ponies. I said in the beginning that I did not want the"buyer" aka you to get any trouble. I never said that you asked to keep the ponies. I offered because I figured the cost wasn't worth it if they were as bad as you say. I'll admit that I'm shocked you found mold since I actually black out from the smell of mold. I must not have had the pony long. I should have let you know that I was a newbie to selling and maybe you could have asked more comprehensive questions.
I don't want to be on bad terms with you. I love this group and the people in it. Please put your side of the experience on the thread. I only started it to ask for a better way to describe my ponies so I wouldn't disappoint anyone in the future.
Again I'm sorry about anything I said that was wrong. My intent was to be better able to describe ponies in the future, never to hurt you.
My intent in this group is still to just collect the ponies I love while learning from those who know more and only sell for what I paid so I don't run out of space
One more thing that I believe was mentioned before is that I've had 14 concussions. They've caused some brain damage. Hence the black outs with certain smells. I also couldn't have handled the stress of figuring out how to return the ponies. I must pick and choose which stresses I can take on. The cause of a dispute being opened on my PayPal was that they put a hold on all incoming funds for 60 days. This sent me into a bit of panic since I still had to meet previously planned financial obligations and my septic tank broke. I have nothing to buy food or pay bills with. Luckily I keep canned goods on hand and my mother is my landlord so will let me pay rent late.
I hope from reading the whole thread and this that you and everyone know I don't want trouble. You said you gave away the ponies and they are common ones so let it be. I certainly won't be on the thread anymore. It's not a stress worth having.
Jamie said
:mad: you are a disgusting ugly person....you are destroying my Ebay business with your slander...having people block me is just sick. :mad:
I've spent too much of my life tainted with anger. I just want to describe my ponies accurately. So I decided just to sell them a for a fraction of their worth "as is".
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do sales outside of ebay and through paypal my only protection is paypal and when i receive ponies significantly not as pictured it scares me...i can admit maybe i jumped the gun but like the seller it scared me. I dont see how dragging my name through the dirt is ok when only little info was posted about the issue. I wanted to return the and she told me not worry about it and left me positive feedback as i did her...now im being punished. If any one is a nasty person it is TAK...using her short comings for sympathy isnt ok.
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Jamie, the reason Tak started this thread was because she wanted to be able to accurately describe ponies. It was apparently a misunderstanding about the listing.
There is no reason to call people names here. You didn't have to immediately open a case. A buyer should be able to communicate with a seller for misunderstandings.
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...PS...they were not being SOLD "AS IS" when i viewed her thread..they were said to be in good condition which is why i PMd her with my questions... I can deal with removable marks I said no mold and they had mostly that...mold. so i requested a return...and she denied a return.
Post Merge: February 16, 2016, 11:59:13 AM
Jamie, the reason Tak started this thread was because she wanted to be able to accurately describe ponies. It was apparently a misunderstanding about the listing.
There is no reason to call people names here. You didn't have to immediately open a case. A buyer should be able to communicate with a seller for misunderstandings.
I have no comlaints about her starting the thread for that reason...i have a problem with her posting my user name having people block me for a misunderstanding and not having her defending what actually happened. in turn making people not trust me...sh can post questions without using my name making me out to be a problem.
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Jamie did not ask to keep the ponies. I offered since I had disappointed her as a seller and the stress/cost of returning wasn't right for me. She did say no mold, I didn't smell mold. I do live in a very moldy city. I did not have "as is" on my thread until after her sale. This thread was started to try to determine a better definition of what fair, good, great, excellent, etc means. I've never taken a head off a pony, so never look inside. I'm selling now for barely what I paid, cheaper in big lots if I can, and dirt cheap locally whenever possible. Selling is not for me. The biggest stress was and is the hold on my funds that the dispute caused.
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Jamie did not ask to keep the ponies. I offered since I had disappointed her as a seller and the stress/cost of returning wasn't right for me. She did say no mold, I didn't smell mold. I do live in a very moldy city. I did not have "as is" on my thread until after her sale. This thread was started to try to determine a better definition of what fair, good, great, excellent, etc means. I've never taken a head off a pony, so never look inside. I'm selling now for barely what I paid, cheaper in big lots if I can, and dirt cheap locally whenever possible. Selling is not for me. The biggest stress was and is the hold on my funds that the dispute caused.
Thank you for clarifying this to everyone...again i am sorry opening a case did this..i didnt know you were new to paypal until after everything went down. If i could do things over again i would have waited longer to hear back from you.
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I have no comlaints about her starting the thread for that reason...i have a problem with her posting my user name having people block me for a misunderstanding and not having her defending what actually happened. in turn making people not trust me...sh can post questions without using my name making me out to be a problem.
Tak's original post did not call you out. People in the thread asked for a name, and the title was modified by a mod.
Since you have given your side, I'm sure the original post will take out the bit about the listing.
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I have never had any bad blood with anyone and have always been beyond nice and understanding my feedback proves this...I had no idea this thread even existed and the things being said is nothing short hurtful... thank you Rhubarbpie for letting me know!
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I'm sorry it's so out of proportion Jamie. I hope we can be on amicable terms from here on.
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same here. thank you for clearing everything up...sorry you felt the way that you did, wish you would have come to me about any questions you had concerning my actions. would never take advantage of anyone, just as you wouldnt.
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JamieDey5
Hopefully you don't mind me responding. In the thread when I read it, I saw someone who was new who truly didn't want to disappoint or inadvertently take advantage of her customers.
I'm also picky, and I have bought a lot. Here are things I've noticed, and how I buy. As a collector- I am VERY, VERY, VERY picky with my personal collection. No loose heads, touch ups, restores, replaced parts, etc etc etc. And, being on the forums/ebay for a number of years my personal experience has been that, very often other collectors opinions of VGC, Excellent, NM, Mint have been are a far cry from mine. It's very rare I get a VGC,Ex pony in better condition then described (in my opinion of those collecting terms) from a fellow collector.
There are a group of us though that are as picky, and among us a perfect or near perfect or perfect ponies, especially early ponies like moondancer/glory will be sold with detailed photos in the best lighting and a detailed description at a premium- no way anything close to $7 more like $18-30 per piece. When you are talking about a $3-$4 pony, you are taking a chance.
That said, There are many people who don't know how, or unable to take accurate, clear detailed photos (because they only have a cell or tablet). or whose noses don't work as well, or have seen enough examples of something to know what an excellent version of that specific character looks like. and, for the most part I see pricing in these listings is in-line for the detail provided and gamble a buyer assumes.
I still buy "unknowns" BUT I anticipate flaws that could be unseen or missed in the quality of that photo. But I only buy from these listings when they are priced in a way that if I receive something that a quick gentle clean leaves something better then anticipated I am stoked, and the pony is part of my collection or if there are more flaws present I consider expected I could at least recoup my cost for a little of my time, or if about what I thought clean the pony as a gift for my not picky collecting friend. Seller gets good FB and life goes on. *adding this: I buy for two collections. While I am picky, my friend isn't and we often collect together, and gift back and forth. she's thrilled with my restore skills so I am not always after pristine ponies and I love being able to get way more bang for my buck just add elbow grease buying her ponies overall* Same lady who pretty much collected my other gens for me :heart:. *
If it's grossly misrepresented, or packaged in a way that causes or could cause damage a nice note to the seller first explaining it- and don't assume they intentionally did something wrong, as they may not know what to look for, or even how to identify that issue. Most here love ponies and do not want to put one over on another or disappoint or upset a fellow collector. those that do don't last long before being banned. Automatically starting a claim is a no-no and I assumed on ebay too when I was new in the olden days. I know I'd want someone to contact me first before opening a claim, I always gave others that same courtesy.
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JamieDey5
Hopefully you don't mind me responding. In the thread when I read it, I saw someone who was new who truly didn't want to disappoint or inadvertently take advantage of her customers.
I'm also picky, and I have bought a lot. Here are things I've noticed, and how I buy. As a collector- I am VERY, VERY, VERY picky with my personal collection. No loose heads, touch ups, restores, replaced parts, etc etc etc. And, being on the forums/ebay for a number of years my personal experience has been that, very often other collectors opinions of VGC, Excellent, NM, Mint have been are a far cry from mine. It's very rare I get a VGC,Ex pony in better condition then described (in my opinion of those collecting terms) from a fellow collector.
There are a group of us though that are as picky, and among us a perfect or near perfect or perfect ponies, especially early ponies like moondancer/glory will be sold with detailed photos in the best lighting and a detailed description at a premium- no way anything close to $7 more like $18-30 per piece. When you are talking about a $3-$4 pony, you are taking a chance.
That said, There are many people who don't know how, or unable to take accurate, clear detailed photos (because they only have a cell or tablet). or whose noses don't work as well, or have seen enough examples of something to know what an excellent version of that specific character looks like. and, for the most part I see pricing in these listings is in-line for the detail provided and gamble a buyer assumes.
I still buy "unknowns" BUT I anticipate flaws that could be unseen or missed in the quality of that photo. But I only buy from these listings when they are priced in a way that if I receive something that a quick gentle clean leaves something better then anticipated I am stoked, and the pony is part of my collection or if there are flaws present I consider expected I could at least recoup my cost for a little of my time, or clean the pony as a gift for my not picky collecting friend. Seller gets good FB and life goes on.
If it's grossly misrepresented, or packaged in a way that causes or could cause damage a nice note to the seller first explaining it- and don't assume they intentionally did something wrong, as they may not know what to look for, or even how to identify that issue. Most here love ponies and do not want to put one over on another or disappoint or upset a fellow collector. those that do don't last long before being banned. Automatically starting a claim is a no-no and I assumed on ebay too when I was new in the olden days. I know I'd want someone to contact me first before opening a claim, I always gave others that same courtesy.
understandably... I am also new to the arena and they offer no protection from scammers so yeah my guard was especially seeing she hadnt been here long either..I did message her before opening a case thro paypal...unfortunately it was at the same time she decided to respond to the message i sent her...had she not been new to paypal it wouldnt have affected her account negatively in any way especially since i closed it as a resolved problem...i did not know she was new to paypal either until afterwards. I love the Arena because i can find dirty used ponies for a great price that only need to be cleaned and styled that are great for my own collection...i do restorations all the time...you can see some of them in threads ive opened. I also restore the lots i buy on ebay and re sell on ebay, which are moe often that not, NOT in the best condition especially for my collection which is why i re sell them. I never and do not deal with any kind of mold which is why i asked specifically, because of that. I requested a return and it was denied so what am i to do? i dont have the need for them so i gave them to some one that could use them. i gained nothing but bad words from that whole experience and do not deserved the treatment i got anymore than TAK does for her misunderstanding of what a moldy pony looks and smells like.
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JamieDey5
Hopefully you don't mind me responding. In the thread when I read it, I saw someone who was new who truly didn't want to disappoint or inadvertently take advantage of her customers.
I'm also picky, and I have bought a lot. Here are things I've noticed, and how I buy. As a collector- I am VERY, VERY, VERY picky with my personal collection. No loose heads, touch ups, restores, replaced parts, etc etc etc. And, being on the forums/ebay for a number of years my personal experience has been that, very often other collectors opinions of VGC, Excellent, NM, Mint have been are a far cry from mine. It's very rare I get a VGC,Ex pony in better condition then described (in my opinion of those collecting terms) from a fellow collector.
There are a group of us though that are as picky, and among us a perfect or near perfect or perfect ponies, especially early ponies like moondancer/glory will be sold with detailed photos in the best lighting and a detailed description at a premium- no way anything close to $7 more like $18-30 per piece. When you are talking about a $3-$4 pony, you are taking a chance.
That said, There are many people who don't know how, or unable to take accurate, clear detailed photos (because they only have a cell or tablet). or whose noses don't work as well, or have seen enough examples of something to know what an excellent version of that specific character looks like. and, for the most part I see pricing in these listings is in-line for the detail provided and gamble a buyer assumes.
I still buy "unknowns" BUT I anticipate flaws that could be unseen or missed in the quality of that photo. But I only buy from these listings when they are priced in a way that if I receive something that a quick gentle clean leaves something better then anticipated I am stoked, and the pony is part of my collection or if there are flaws present I consider expected I could at least recoup my cost for a little of my time, or clean the pony as a gift for my not picky collecting friend. Seller gets good FB and life goes on.
If it's grossly misrepresented, or packaged in a way that causes or could cause damage a nice note to the seller first explaining it- and don't assume they intentionally did something wrong, as they may not know what to look for, or even how to identify that issue. Most here love ponies and do not want to put one over on another or disappoint or upset a fellow collector. those that do don't last long before being banned. Automatically starting a claim is a no-no and I assumed on ebay too when I was new in the olden days. I know I'd want someone to contact me first before opening a claim, I always gave others that same courtesy.
understandably... I am also new to the arena and they offer no protection from scammers so yeah my guard was especially seeing she hadnt been here long either..I did message her before opening a case thro paypal...unfortunately it was at the same time she decided to respond to the message i sent her...had she not been new to paypal it wouldnt have affected her account negatively in any way especially since i closed it as a resolved problem...i did not know she was new to paypal either until afterwards. I love the Arena because i can find dirty used ponies for a great price that only need to be cleaned and styled that are great for my own collection...i do restorations all the time...you can see some of them in threads ive opened. I also restore the lots i buy on ebay and re sell on ebay, which are moe often that not, NOT in the best condition especially for my collection which is why i re sell them. I never and do not deal with any kind of mold which is why i asked specifically, because of that. I requested a return and it was denied so what am i to do? i dont have the need for them so i gave them to some one that could use them. i gained nothing but bad words from that whole experience and do not deserved the treatment i got anymore than TAK does for her misunderstanding of what a moldy pony looks and smells like.
Unfortunately, smells can be a tricky one. I haven't had an issue with cigarette smoke smell on the forums- because it's so very pungent, pretty much anyone knows it shouldn't be there or someone else in the house gags when they bring in those ponies even if they themselves can't smell it (but have been burnt by smoke smell on ebay- if someone smokes inside they often haven't a clue their wares STINK.)
Mildew smell and mold unfortunately there are many people who don't know that smell shouldn't be there or can't smell it, there are some areas where most houses have that damp basement smell. And sadly, asking the seller to hold a pony to a light and checking for a dark shadow to be sure she's free of internal grime doesn't always say that smell isn't there.
The island where I live is pretty bad (Vancouver Island, west coast), with our moist rainy climate some houses I can't go into they are so overwhelming with damp basement smell, and many more have it to a lesser degree. we spend a lot keeping our house safe from that w/insulation heating and dehumidifying. the people can't smell it who grew up or live in a musty house though). There are a number of climates that cause the same issue more often. Even in clear homes, someone may not be able to smell something you can. my nose is normally very good, but where I used to live out east when ragweed season hit, I couldn't use my nose at all, and barely taste food even taking allergy pills until the frost hit. Other conditions can cause loss of some, or most/all of the sense of smell and a good number of people have this issue. So if it's something that will make you ill smelling, or cause an allergic reaction I'd advise keeping to more experienced sellers and ask if they are also picky about smells, and can detect mildew/mold smell. Sort of how people who have severe animal allergies only buy from pet free sellers. :) Hope this helps!
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Threads like these are why if I ever sell ponies, I list them as "bait" "very played with" condition with lots of flaws, many of which are not easily photographed. And then a photo of each side of the pony.
Lately, I've just given them away because all that work is sometimes not worth the effort for a $4 pony...
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And not everyones nose works either. I have had so much damage to my sinuses over the years that I have lost all sense of smell.
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Threads like these are why if I ever sell ponies, I list them as "bait" "very played with" condition with lots of flaws, many of which are not easily photographed. And then a photo of each side of the pony.
Lately, I've just given them away because all that work is sometimes not worth the effort for a $4 pony...
I understand this. so many common played with I try and sell well under market, as-is lazy sales. other then something really offensive (bad smells etc) it's generic, expect flaws "poor, heavy restoration needed may have the following.... " group picture in rows. My time is worth more to me then spending months selling and making a few extra dollars per pony. If enough potential buyers start requesting novels of details on each I sort of give up and start giving them away/ donating them.
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Threads like these are why if I ever sell ponies, I list them as "bait" "very played with" condition with lots of flaws, many of which are not easily photographed. And then a photo of each side of the pony.
Lately, I've just given them away because all that work is sometimes not worth the effort for a $4 pony...
Not worth it for sure. I'll stick to trade, swap, or buy... and have my mother smell for mold. She's like a bloodhound.
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I have no comlaints about her starting the thread for that reason...i have a problem with her posting my user name having people block me for a misunderstanding and not having her defending what actually happened. in turn making people not trust me...sh can post questions without using my name making me out to be a problem.
Tak's original post did not call you out. People in the thread asked for a name, and the title was modified by a mod.
Since you have given your side, I'm sure the original post will take out the bit about the listing.
This is true. Tak originally posted here to get info about how to better describe ponies to avoid issues in the future. It was the fact that a case was opened before she had a chance to resolve any issues, combined with what seemed to be selling of free ponies that prompted many (myself included) to urgently request an ID of the user to be posted. This is not against the rules in the Trader Support forum and Tak did absolutely nothing wrong by posting your user ID. Frankly, I would not want to deal with someone who opens a case before allowing me to resolve any issue. This is a big no no in the collecting community and even if you aren't new to Paypal it can negatively impact your account. Also, even though the Arena does not offer protection in the same way that eBay does, any transaction in paypal that is not marked as "gift" is protected, regardless of whether it is on eBay or not. Thus there was no cause to file a claim so quickly. Besides this, messaging people with BIN auctions on eBay that don't have Best Offer option in order to get a lower price is frowned upon and considered by many to be harassment. I would recommend not doing that in the future.
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ebay is like a flea market, but places like the Arena are set up more like a community: just like in a neighborhood, info(good or bad) spreads fast. To be honest, *that* is a big deterrent to abusing the buying and selling on the Arena, if it wasn't, then no one would care what was being said in the trading forum, right? A negative feedback on ebay may make a few people not bid, but we all know how there are bad buyers on ebay who think *anything* is worth a bad review. On here, things are much more personal, and we handle them a lot more like, say, a relative messing something up, I guess!
I think the main thing for Jaimedey5 to remember is: if you ask on here, we'll answer to the best of our ability...but we only see the side we're presented with. I would suggest waiting longer to make a paypal claim if the issue comes up again; you can see when the PM gets opened by checking your 'sent' mail(the icon changes) and usually wait at least a day or two after it's been read before doing anything else, Paypal claims are viewed as the 'last resort' by most of us, even after asking on the trading forums.
It wasn't until TAK thought you were selling the ponies that anyone really said anything negative, right?(well, many of us felt she should have asked for the ponies back, but that's a separate issue.) Having your name in the title of a thread is usually an attempt to get your attention and warn others there may be an issue going on, not a blacklist type of thing. You can check, *my* name has been in here before, I had a string of personal disasters, so I wasn't able to be online much. Same with MANY sellers and buyers. If they thought there was a major problem(scams, shill bidding, etc.), the title would probably have had WARNING or ATTENTION in it.
TAK, for you I think the thing to remember is there are *tons* of each pony out there, and just because someone is selling the same pony doesn't necessarily mean it's the one you sold or gave them. :) If someone asks about smells, a good way to check is get your nose right into the hair, and the base of the tail, in a place where there won't be competing smells. It sounds silly but the hair picks up odors more then the vinyl will, and if there's no other scents in the area it's easier to notice. I have a horrible sense of smell do to being around smoke most of my life, but I've found this works pretty good!
I hope both of you continue to be active here on the arena, and don't let this experience sour your pony fun!
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Jamie said
:mad: you are a disgusting ugly person....you are destroying my Ebay business with your slander...having people block me is just sick. :mad:
The fact that you stoop to insults is what would make me avoid you as a seller really quickly, actually. I'd be interested to see any evidence of your eBay business being harmed, if you have it?
To be brutally honest, the conversation between Tak and JamieDey5 in this thread feels quite a bit like bullying. I feel like Tak is getting a major guilt-trip, both on and off this thread, and she's caving to it because she considers herself a "newbie" going up against a more experienced seller making unfounded threats and inappropriate insults. She's under immense pressure to make it "right" again, even going so far as promising to make a "big purchase" from JamieDey5 in May. Maybe I'm misreading, but that's what I'm feeling here, and it's something that upsets me quite a bit.
JamieDey5, you make your business re-selling ponies for large markups on eBay. So you, of all people, should know that if you are trying to buy very cheap ponies, you run the risk of receiving ponies from non-experts, who may not know all of your concerns. The phrase "too good to be true" comes to mind here. Do you think if you asked the average flea-market seller, if they would know what mold smells like? That's a similar risk you're taking here. Most people who buy and sell ponies as a business, they are aware that when you buy things for very cheap, you are often paying the market price; you run the risk of getting amazing, hidden gems, or unsellable baits.
Yes, you asked for clarification (which was the proper next step), but we as collectors all have different abilities to sense flaws in our ponies; some people simply lack the experience to see what another person might pick up on immediately. There is no surefire way of ensuring you receive mint ponies from other collectors, unless you pay the high prices required, or buy from very experienced sellers.
Any time you step into a "newbie" seller's thread, I feel like it's an expected fact that you take your luck into your own hands. Sure, you might score a great pony for a great price, but you also risk buying something that's not described to 100% detail. When you see a pony for very cheap, you should not assume "what a deal!" but "this probably isn't a mint pony, or else they would be charging more."
Here's my feeling: the ponies should have been sent back. That was more on Tak than on Jamie, so I'm not blaming either party for this, because Tak was trying to be nice. Ultimately, it's more fair if the ponies were returned for a refund. If I had been Tak, I also would have assumed those were my ponies on the eBay page, so although it was an incorrect assumption, it's a mistake that probably would have happened to anyone. Filing the Paypal claim before working it out with the seller was a big no-no on Jamie's part, which set the stage for everyone to be concerned about scamming in the first place. Even on eBay, you are encouraged to try and work out a refund with your seller before you file with Paypal, unless eBay's policies have changed since I last checked. Ultimately, if JamieDey5 decides to sell any of the ponies she got for free, it's going to look pretty shady to a third party, which is why it would have been a better idea to just return them to Tak in the first place. And there is never a place for bullying and insulting, period.
Ultimately, the thread was started because Tak felt she was not educated enough about selling, and wanted to remedy a problem she had recently faced - she was not trying to call out her seller or insult her in any way. Tak has been nothing but apologetic in this thread, and it was only when more seasoned sellers saw fishy things happening that the mood of the thread changed, IMO.
Frankly, this thread didn't reflect well on JamieDey5, but it truly began to stink when JamieDey5 revealed how aggressive and outright insulting they can be when questioned. Yes, having a thread about you in Trader Support is no fun. But buying and selling ponies for profit means sometimes you have to deal with problem sellers/buyers, and you can't start calling them "disgusting and ugly" when they've been nothing but polite to you until then. Frankly, Tak's PMs to you seem exceedingly apologetic and polite, and you respond with insults.
As a buyer, you have a right to be upset about receiving not-as-described ponies; I think everyone here has had a buying experience that has gone south, and people are sympathetic to what you are going through, myself included. But some of the onus is on you, as well, to ask for photos of every angle of the pony if you are going to be picky about your purchase, and to advise the seller of such. You only make yourself look bad when you start insulting someone, instead of defending yourself without resorting to insults or bullying. No one is suggesting a site-wide boycott, Tak least of all.
Coming into a thread like this and acting like a bully is what's going to sink your reputation in the community, not jumping the gun on a refund.
I'm sorry if this sounds angry, but I can't help but feel like Tak is being taken advantage of, and it's making me a bit tetchy. I've edited my post a bit now that I've cooled down.
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I completely agree with Snapdragon here.
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im not insulting or bullying anyone...if anyone is bullying its everyone on here not knowing both sides of the story and continually picking on me. I wanted to return the ponies and tried comforting the seller when she started feeling bad about it...I have no control over her decision...now that we hashed it out i am still being attacked by people not even involved in the matter. that in its self doesnt sit right. I stated she was being nasty slandering my name to everyone without everyone having all the info...she in turn made it right and i apologized for any offense, from the shock and hurt of it all, i may have caused. I asked specific questions and she unknowingly sent me exactly what i requested i didnt want so i requested a return which i was informed she didnt care to have them back. I am sorry but I am not all at fault in this matter and will own my part of jumping the gun on opening a paypal case out of my own fear no problem. I didnt in anyway suggest or "bully her" to buy anything from me in the future, nor do i understand why she would say she would?...especially after TAK stating she doesnt have a lot of money?...Im confused and have been confused with several statements/Convos i have received from TAK. No harm done tho i just wish my name not to be drug through the mud either way. i think it untactful to continue to reply with uncalled for jabs towards me...how is me defending myself bullying for a matter TAK and I have made whole, coming here to find out it wasnt whole? She should have continued to talk to me if she wasnt happy with the outcome...but instead came on here and posted nasty things about me from a decision she made without any influence from me...again, i wanted to return the ponies and would have paid to do so but TAK found it not to be worth it. AGAIN NO MORE ATTACKS ON ME PLEASE...TAK AND I HAVE CAME TO A SETTLING POINT.
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It is settled at this point I ask a mod to maybe lock the thread? I can be confusing. My mind doesn't work like average and it can be hard to be clear. I take longer because of it. I didn't promise a purchase. I said maybe, because I don't mean to hurt her business. I am low income and especially bad right now. May is my birthday and my mom lets me pick my present within reason. I got a vacuum last year. Best. Present. Ever. On the happy thought of my awesome vacuum, I'm going to try to be more clear in the future and leave all the drama behind.
I implore everyone to just leave it be. You can always pm if necessary. Thanks again for the suggestions, help, and support.
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im not insulting or bullying anyone...
I'm just curious, did you not PM Tak that she was "ugly and disgusting"? I'm just curious about how you can claim that you don't bully or insult anyone in public, and then be insulting privately.
I'll say it again; you have every right to be upset about a Trader Support thread. You didn't do anything wrong by agreeing with Tak to not return the ponies. But PMing that to someone when a sale goes south is going to make people avoid you, not any of this business about the sale and misrepresented ponies.
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I said that to her in PM (not on the thread) about her character in posting such a thread without coming to me about it not about her appearance. I guess you have never been hurt and said things to the person who did the hurting....we can all learn from you to be perfect i guess. Please like both TAK and i have said, let it be. Or if insist, u can just keeping bullying me...how ironic.
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I said that to her in PM (not on the thread) about her character in posting such a thread without coming to me about it not about her appearance. I guess you have never been hurt and said things to the person who did the hurting....we can all learn from you to be perfect i guess. Please like both TAK and i have said, let it be. Or if insist, u can just keeping bullying me...how ironic.
Again, as others have pointed out, Tak posted this thread as a learning tool, not to hurt you, JamieDey5. She didn't slander you. You really need to look up that term and its meaning. She never said a bad thing about you. She did make a mistake about thinking you were selling the ponies you gave her and she owned up to that fact. And you have owned up to the fact that you shouldn't have jumped the gun on the paypal dispute. But you have NOT owned up to the fact that you continually call Tak names, call her a bad person and put her down. That is bullying. Snapdragon hasn't bullied you, just pointed out that fact. Saying it in a pm doesn't make it right, it just covers it up so that the rest of us can't see how terrible you're being to the other person!