The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: gazzy90 on March 13, 2015, 03:58:38 AM
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I was recently charged £7.90 shipping for a package from uk. When I got it I noticed that the actual shipping price was £5.15. And the dolls were packed in a plastic bag envelope, so nothing too fancy or expensive. Just some bubble wrap around them.
So that's a difference of £2.75, which is almost 4 euros for me. That's not little, I can get some take away with that money!
So I messaged the seller a few days ago, but haven't received a response. So what should I do about this? It's no tragedy, but I would like that money back, why should the seller keep it?
Should I open an ebay case? Isn't it a bit extreme for £2.75?
I did re-message the seller today, but I don't appreciate being ignored. Then again they don't have any active sales atm, so maybe they're not checking their ebay?
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I personally wouldn't open a case over that amount as it is quite a small overcharge (ok, it is still an overcharge and your seller didn't exactly wrap the dolls well or communicate with you either, so I'm not saying you shouldn't feel disappointed or anything, it's just not worth a case IMO :hug: ) . If the seller continues to ignore you though you could ding the star ratings when it comes to communication and shipping :awake:
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My question is did it state in the auction that it was a flat rate cost or a calculated cost? If so, then you agreed to that amount in the first place and eBay would take the seller's side on this one, sorry. It's possible that they calculate not only the shipping cost but their eBay fees into the shipping cost, as a lot of sellers do. Unfortunately, the fees aren't that cheap.
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I would assume for that amount that the extra is to cover packaging/handling and fees (sellers have to pay fees on shipping on Ebay now, I think?) - Ebay calls the shipping charge "postage and packaging" so I doubt they would see anything wrong with the seller covering their costs. I personally wouldn't open a case for those reasons.
It's out of order the seller is ignoring you, though, and I agree with Ringlets on dinging stars for communication.
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My question is did it state in the auction that it was a flat rate cost or a calculated cost? If so, then you agreed to that amount in the first place and eBay would take the seller's side on this one, sorry. It's possible that they calculate not only the shipping cost but their eBay fees into the shipping cost, as a lot of sellers do. Unfortunately, the fees aren't that cheap.
None of the above actually. I just got an in invoice for combined shipping after the auctions ended, there wasn't a shipping quote before.
I would think it's unfair to add your fees to the shipping costs. I mean, it's ebay, you know you're gonna get fees, add them to your items for sale or something. And fees are a part of ebay anyway, you choose to sell there, you get fees. It's not fair to charge your buyer x1.5times the cost of actual shipping to get them back. But that's just me.
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I'm with CupidStrikes. eBay makes seller's pay fees on shipping, too and not just the listed item. That could account for some of the overcharge. As a seller, I always try to overestimate shipping by about $1-2 (depending on package size) to cover what most people call "handling." This is my packaging materials, fees, and a slight cushion in case I underestimated package weight by a few ounces. If I don't do this, I break even or even lose money on some items. So, I doubt that your seller came away with much pocket money from the shipping.
Some sellers don't try to work in the necessary fees in the item price because that can deter some customers. If a pony is "worth" about $5 but they are selling it for $8 to cover all the fees, lots of people will pass it up to look for the $5 pony even if the shipping is higher! It's just a game sellers have to play to try to find the right combination of attractive price and actually making a little profit.
I also agree that they should message you back, though! Not cool! And a better pack job certainly wouldn't hurt.
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I do the same as Aadra and bump up my shipping costs a little for the same reasons. It's pretty normal on ebay and it is not against ebay policy to include a handling cost. Obviously there are times where the shipping cost is completely excessive but I wouldn't say this is one of them.
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Should I open an ebay case? Isn't it a bit extreme for £2.75?
You will not get any money back if you open a case. So the best thing to do is politely message your seller, and hope that they might refund you.
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I'm with CupidStrikes. eBay makes seller's pay fees on shipping, too and not just the listed item. That could account for some of the overcharge. As a seller, I always try to overestimate shipping by about $1-2 (depending on package size) to cover what most people call "handling." This is my packaging materials, fees, and a slight cushion in case I underestimated package weight by a few ounces. If I don't do this, I break even or even lose money on some items. So, I doubt that your seller came away with much pocket money from the shipping.
Some sellers don't try to work in the necessary fees in the item price because that can deter some customers. If a pony is "worth" about $5 but they are selling it for $8 to cover all the fees, lots of people will pass it up to look for the $5 pony even if the shipping is higher! It's just a game sellers have to play to try to find the right combination of attractive price and actually making a little profit.
I also agree that they should message you back, though! Not cool! And a better pack job certainly wouldn't hurt.
Yes, it's all psychological. It's the same reason sellers will start with an opening bid of $5 with a reserve of $60. People who will happily bid up to $60 . . . will not put down a starting bid of $60.
But back on topic, eBay does allow sellers to charge a handling fee as long as it isn't excessive.
Also keep in mind that eBay's shipping calculator is a lying liar. I've had it overcharge buyers, undercharge buyers, and make crazy claims like "Oh, shipping a 4 lb box from the US to Australia? $16! 8D"
So it's also possible that the seller wasn't trying to get an extra fee, but the shipping calculator happened to spin in their favor on this auction.
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I'm with CupidStrikes. eBay makes seller's pay fees on shipping, too and not just the listed item. That could account for some of the overcharge. As a seller, I always try to overestimate shipping by about $1-2 (depending on package size) to cover what most people call "handling." This is my packaging materials, fees, and a slight cushion in case I underestimated package weight by a few ounces. If I don't do this, I break even or even lose money on some items. So, I doubt that your seller came away with much pocket money from the shipping.
Some sellers don't try to work in the necessary fees in the item price because that can deter some customers. If a pony is "worth" about $5 but they are selling it for $8 to cover all the fees, lots of people will pass it up to look for the $5 pony even if the shipping is higher! It's just a game sellers have to play to try to find the right combination of attractive price and actually making a little profit.
I also agree that they should message you back, though! Not cool! And a better pack job certainly wouldn't hurt.
^ I agree with all of this. I don't think it is enough of an overcharge to cause a fuss over. If you are concerned about combined shipping costs you need to ask a seller before the listings end how much it would cost for items X, Y, and Z to be shipped together. The reality is that shipping costs are more than just what is paid to the post office, whether or not one agrees that this should be the case.
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The cost of shipping is for shipping and handling which can include the cost of materials, gas to the PO, the time to actually package the items, ect. The overcharge is really miniscule, and opening a case won't get you anywhere. I think the wisest thing to do is to ask for a shipping quote before buying. I don't think it's fair to ding the seller's stars as they haven't done anything wrong.
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So after messaging the seller again, I got this response:
"The 7.90 paid, was for postage and packaging. So the remainder of what you paid was for packaging and the extra paid to the post office for insurance in case it got lost."
I'm sorry but this a lie! £5.15 was the stamp on the package, so no way they paid insurance to the p.o.!! If the package was insured, it would be stated on it! I understand charging a bit more for packaging materials (although they didn't even use a bubble mailer!) and for fees, but lying to your buyer like that?
Here's what I replied:
"I'm sorry, but if the package was insured, it would say so on the stamp and the price would be higher.
Also, 2 small pieces of bubble wrap and a simple bag (not even bubble) envelope costing that much, no way."
Never got an answer back! And I'm actually upset, ignoring my messages, lying to me - is that nice seller behaviour?
I'm sure you guys will disagree, but I think I'm going to leave negative feedback. Overcharging, ignoring and lying - isn't that enough?
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I'd knock the stars way down and leave a neutral. As there were no problems with the actual item, the method/time/speed of shipping, etc. I wouldn't think it warrants a negative... But often I find that the difference between a neutral or a neg is how much the seller annoys you, if you feel emotionally that a negative is fair, then go right ahead. :) Wilfully lying and not communicating promptly are pretty bad tactics for a seller - they could just have said that it was for packing materials and transport/handling costs, or even paypal fees, that would be understandable. No need for lying about insurance when it's something that can easily be disproven by looking at the label.
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I'd knock the stars way down and leave a neutral. As there were no problems with the actual item, the method/time/speed of shipping, etc. I wouldn't think it warrants a negative... But often I find that the difference between a neutral or a neg is how much the seller annoys you, if you feel emotionally that a negative is fair, then go right ahead. :) Wilfully lying and not communicating promptly are pretty bad tactics for a seller - they could just have said that it was for packing materials and transport/handling costs, or even paypal fees, that would be understandable. No need for lying about insurance when it's something that can easily be disproven by looking at the label.
Thanks for the support prancingstag :)
I just left negative feedback actually, I've been avoiding doing it for days, but I couldn't help it. And I actually saw that a few days ago someone else also left negative feedback, so mine was not the first:
"No happy doll missing wing seller did not seem to care!"
So there you go, seller just doesn't care!
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This is exactly why I don't sell on eBay... Even if you bend over backwards you can never make every buyer happy... I don't think that small amount was that much of an overcharge and honestly when I buy something I don't think I ever look to see if the postage they paid matches the postage I paid. Now if it seemed excessive I would check but don't think that's ever happened in my 15 years of buying on eBay... I always check shipping before I bid and if its more than I want to pay I look for a different auction. However if its been many days and they haven't responded to your questions the stars do need reduced on communication and shipping. I don't think I would give a negative as I think you can open a case if they feel tat the feedback wasn't deserved, and if thats proven, I think you get dinged for it but I'm not positive.
Good luck in whatever you chose to do!
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I agree with Cupidstar and Aadra-- to be able to sell on ebay and just break even can be really difficult. They don't just charge you fees on items anymore, they charge you a fee on the postage itself. I think that's a bit greedy of ebay personally, but I guess they can charge whatever they want as for a lot of items there's not much alternative places to sell things. A lot of time and work goes into selling, it's not a walk in the park.
Real-world retailers are the same. They have to pay rent on their premises, staff wages, lots of other expenses and that gets passed on to the consumer. I think it's fair-- BUT I also think it's of utmost importance to be upfront with the cost from the beginning.
Sometimes (like when you're buying overseas) you do need to go and ask the seller what the cost will be. It often says on an item that it will ship to other countries but not display a price. Etsy you can display different countries do that but I'm not totally sure if you even can on ebay (I've only sold overseas a couple of times though).
As a buyer I always ask the seller what the postage will cost ahead of time. There are all sorts of sellers out there, good and bad, and there have been many times I've chosen not to bid on an item because postage is too high for me.
I think the seller was within their rights. Some sellers will write in the item description asking buyers to contact them BEFORE bidding, to sort out postage specifically to avoid this kind of problem. I understand from a buyer's point of view it's annoying, but since it's only a couple of dollars I'd say it's best to just chalk it up to experience and remember to ask about postage well before the auction ends in the future to avoid paying more than you expect.
On a side note-- a lot of sellers use the Global international shipping program, which is heaps more expensive. It's calcutated automatically by ebay and the seller just sends the package to a local ebay depot, and they handle the international shipping from there. You can get around it, if the seller is willing to do so (it requires a bit more work for the seller so sometimes it's just not convenient for them) and pay only the actual shipping cost. But again-- a lot of these items I choose not to buy because postage is too much for me.
Hope that helped :) :hug:
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The seller didn't have an international shipping cost and they invoiced me after I had bid. They said ebay global shipping handles the cost, but Greece is not included in that, I've checked! I paid the shipping cost they specified even though it did seem a bit much.
What bothers me is that they ignored my messages about the overcharge I noticed and then after I messaged them again, they lied about paying insurance at the post office! And they never replied to me again. And the difference of 2.75GBP is not little to me, it's 4 euros! And I live in Greece guys :blush:
I've been overcharged before and every seller has sent me a refund or explained politely that the extra charge was for shipping materials etc. And for small amounts it's ok. Even for this amount I wouldn't have left negative feedback. This is probably the first negative feedback I left and it's mostly because I was ignored and lied to.
"Even if you bend over backwards you can never make every buyer happy" - Tribble79 they didn't do anything to make me happy! And another buyer has just left them negative feedback as well cos they didn't care about her complaint either!
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The seller may not have been lying to you about the insurance. Ebay offers both insurance through the PO as well as third-party insurance through ShipCover. If the seller purchased ShipCover insurance it will not show the package as being insured on the label. I have purchased ShipCover insurance several times and it never shows "insured" on the label. The label will also not reflect the cost of the added insurance, just the postage cost through the PO.
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Fyi, when I buy insurance on items, it is NOT added into postage costs on the label. Ebay does this to me all the time with international transactions and I am forever contacting my buyers to let them know with screen shots of the shipping purchase page and the paypal transaction. Excessive? Probably. But it's the extremes I go to in order to protect my seller feedback. I see you're starting to sell too. Welcome to the world of endless paranoia! Lol!
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I'm sorry, but this seller should have never been left a negative and I wouldn't have even left a neutral. I maybe would have dinged them a few stars, but they are well within their right to charge for packaging and expenses related to shipping the item. $4USD is not at all an excessive amount to cover those costs. It is not overcharging.
With situations like this, I thank goodness I am not a seller on eBay. They did not deserve a negative at all.
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Somebody was charging £3 postage for their ponies on eBay. I bought two, and they upped the postage to £5. I knew immediately the postage was going to stay the same, but I couldn't be bothered to make a fuss about it - it seemed petty. Besides, the ponies themselves were great, so I just mentioned it was expensive in the feedback.
Maybe I'm just too nice on eBay though, I've never left negative feedback, only one neutral for something that was completely inaccurately described xD
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The seller didn't have an international shipping cost and they invoiced me after I had bid. They said ebay global shipping handles the cost, but Greece is not included in that, I've checked! I paid the shipping cost they specified even though it did seem a bit much.
Wait--are you saying this item was shipped through the Global Shipping Program? (Which does include Greece (http://www.webpronews.com/ebay-adds-more-countries-to-global-shipping-program-2014-03).)
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If it was done through global shipping program the extra money could of been for the domestic shipping cost...
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The seller can have the feedback removed if they did, in fact, use the Global Shipping program...or used the ShipSure insurance eBay offers (and does not show on the postage label, btw).
I'm not in the habit of overcharging on shipping, but I normally choose to have what I paid not printed on the label.
The seller should have responded sooner, but I don't think they were lying about the S&H costs.
Just because someone else left a negative feedback doesn't mean the seller deserved it, or another one.
This situation frustrates me :/
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Don't think it would have been through GSP as it sounds like the seller is in the UK
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Oh, the UK definitely has global shipping lol! I've bit the bullet a few times and shelled out for it when the UK sellers have something I want really badly! ;)
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Don't think it would have been through GSP as it sounds like the seller is in the UK
I've seen GSP from the UK to the US! <__<; At least, I am 95% sure I did. It confused the heck out of me-- I remember telling my husband it was reverse GSP since I thought the US was the only one that had it.
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I'm 100% sure. I've paid UK Global Shipping to the US on 5 separate occasions. ;) Better yet, here's some proof
*edit to remove live auction link* PL
Hope no one minds an open auction link. The pony is overpriced, common, and you'll be paying over $20.00 for shipping.
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^^; I don't think we can post a live auction, unless it's your own. But yes, the GSP is there (although I don't see greece as an option, hum....)
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Yep, Greece is included. You can see them in the list on the link that lady Moondancer posted
http://www.webpronews.com/ebay-adds-more-countries-to-global-shipping-program-2014-03 (http://www.webpronews.com/ebay-adds-more-countries-to-global-shipping-program-2014-03)
They are a destination ship to country for the GSP. :)
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"Even if you bend over backwards you can never make every buyer happy" - Tribble79 they didn't do anything to make me happy! And another buyer has just left them negative feedback as well cos they didn't care about her complaint either!
Were you happy with the item that you purchased? If so there was an obvious try to make you happy. Which obviously means that the whole transaction did not deserve a negative feedback whether someone else left negative or not... Just saying
The other buyer had a damaged item if I understood correctly, which if not rectified deserved a negative...
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I don't think you deserve negative feedback Tribble. As buyers it's our responsibility to find out costs first if they're not listed. If she wasn't happy with the price, she should have asked to cancel the transaction, not gone ahead and got it and then complain about price after she'd already agreed to it. It's up to you to set the price and up the the buyer to choose whether or not to buy. You didn't break any ebay policies and considering your costs I don't think the price warrants complaint.
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I don't think you deserve negative feedback Tribble. As buyers it's our responsibility to find out costs first if they're not listed. If she wasn't happy with the price, she should have asked to cancel the transaction, not gone ahead and got it and then complain about price after she'd already agreed to it. It's up to you to set the price and up the the buyer to choose whether or not to buy. You didn't break any ebay policies and considering your costs I don't think the price warrants complaint.
@Daffodil101... I wasn't the seller as I don't sell on ebay. This was gazzy90 who was upset with the shipping price a seller charged and the no response to her inquiries.
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Yep, Greece is included. You can see them in the list on the link that lady Moondancer posted
http://www.webpronews.com/ebay-adds-more-countries-to-global-shipping-program-2014-03 (http://www.webpronews.com/ebay-adds-more-countries-to-global-shipping-program-2014-03)
They are a destination ship to country for the GSP. :)
Oh I know they are a destination for the US GSP, but I didn't see Greece anywhere on the UK auction.
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Everyone has given really good advice here. I think all I can add is, if 4 euros is "a lot of money" then it's going to be very frustrating down the road as a Ebay seller when you misquote postage, and you have to pay out of pocket to mail an item. Because you are NOT allowed to ask for more money after the auction has ended, no matter what the price difference is. And the buyer will be in the right if they complain the item hasn't been shipped or you are asking for more postage funds.
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Ug, demanding buyers are the reason I rarely sell on Ebay anymore. I hope the sellers reports the feedback and has it removed.
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Fyi, when I buy insurance on items, it is NOT added into postage costs on the label. Ebay does this to me all the time with international transactions and I am forever contacting my buyers to let them know with screen shots of the shipping purchase page and the paypal transaction. Excessive? Probably. But it's the extremes I go to in order to protect my seller feedback. I see you're starting to sell too. Welcome to the world of endless paranoia! Lol!
This. When I pay for insurance, it is charged to me at the post office, but is not on the stamp. It shows up on the receipt. As does a fuel surcharge, and tax on the postage.
I'm sorry, but this seller should have never been left a negative and I wouldn't have even left a neutral. I maybe would have dinged them a few stars, but they are well within their right to charge for packaging and expenses related to shipping the item. $4USD is not at all an excessive amount to cover those costs. It is not overcharging.
With situations like this, I thank goodness I am not a seller on eBay. They did not deserve a negative at all.
This. Totally this. I hope you don't bid on my auctions! The seller definitely didn't deserve a negative. This is the reason why sellers need to be able to leave negatives for buyers. You decided to bid on their auction without knowing the shipping costs up front, if you did that one of mine I'd send the parcel via 'tracked packet' to cover my butt (since it would need delivery confirmation) and that would have cost $43.
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Thunderwing that's a bit harsh, don't you think? I came here to ask for advice, not get attacked! And I am entitled to my own opinion and feelings. Would you, as a seller, repeatedly ignore your buyer's messages? Before and after the auction? If the seller had been kinder and had bothered to reply to my messages, I wouldn't have left bad feedback.
And please, by all means, give me your seller ID, I'll make sure to NEVER bid on your auctions!
Post Merge: March 29, 2015, 02:49:58 PM
Fyi, when I buy insurance on items, it is NOT added into postage costs on the label. Ebay does this to me all the time with international transactions and I am forever contacting my buyers to let them know with screen shots of the shipping purchase page and the paypal transaction. Excessive? Probably. But it's the extremes I go to in order to protect my seller feedback. I see you're starting to sell too. Welcome to the world of endless paranoia! Lol!
Well that's nice of you. My seller didn't even reply to my message asking about the extra charge and I had to message them again to get a reply. And then he disappeared. And they personally went to the p.o. to send the package, so no exrra online charges or anything. Plus UK to Greece is so much easier, cheaper and hassle free as we're both in Europe.
I did want to change my feedback to neutral, but I didn't know it can't be done unless the seller asks for it. I thought I could retract it myself, I've never been in this situation before. I'm not mean nor revengfull, I just felt mistreated. And now I feel I'm being attacked on here as well.
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I see no matter how many times I explain the GSP people still do not understand it. Ebay's great idea. Make it so convoluted no one knows what's going on and they rake in the money. Seller's to blame all the way. Of course he had to go to the PO in person, even with the GSP you still must go to the post office to mail the package to the local GSP shipping center. Maybe someone else can explain it better than I can. I think I'm taking a break for now. Instead of people asking for advice this seems to be people wanting someone to agree with them that their opinion is right. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like some people are open to seeing the other side. :( I wish everyone the best and promise not comment further on this post. If someone really wants information on the Global Shipping Program, please contact me directly and I will be more than happy to try and explain it again. It really is a terrible terrible thing eBay has done to the community.
Silverawn