The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Mermaid on November 13, 2014, 03:16:23 AM
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So we've all seen it, the nasty neon pink/neon orange marks on our te party times, the dark magenta spots in our cloud puffs, and the white creamy discoloration on our blue belles.
We refer to it as regrind. But to my understanding, regrind in the process in which unused or excess material is reground to a finer granule and mixed in to the new material to save on costs, be more efficient. It's a pretty common practice to my understanding.
My questions are how did the pony community decide or figure out that, that was in fact causing these ponies to have these discolorations and spots? How does mixing older materials it plastics in with newer plastics cause these spots? From the 6+ party times and 4 or so cloud puffs I've had pass through my hands, these spots are somewhat uniform in shape, which to me doesn't make sense if the old plastic was reground and mixed into the new ones. Wouldn't it not appear in the form of a dot? Wouldn't it be more like the white blue bells or the Italian hop scotches that get those white markings similar to how a cow has splotches?
I'm belive the white blue bells and white Italian hopscotches are true victims of regrind. I'm not convinced so much of the cloud puffs, part times and other who form the spot marks we call regrind. To me after examining party time and a ginger bread with brown spots, it seems those two are more a like than the white splotchy markings found on blue bell. Could these spots just be ages spots or plasticizer leaking causing it to discolor? I'm just not 100% convinced about regrind, I feel like if it was such a practice in ponies we would see more ponies affected then just the handful of ones who always seem prone to it?
Can anyone fill me in? I know we have some great scientists here on the arena! Help me with the missing information I am lacking of the regrind world!
Sorry for the long post, just in a super inquisitive mood!
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from what I understand:
The brown spots (that often get dark centers) are often referred to as VDS (vinyl deterioration syndrome), but that's really a misnomer as well. Looking online for info on that gives me information about it being mold/fungus in origin
just changing color is often the result of plasticizer leaking out. Sometimes this makes a pony "sticky" to the touch inside or out or both and it's also most likely the reason some ponies are rock hard - those don't usually result in color change, but it's all probably the same culprit
but the different dyes to create the different colors play a part as well
neither are contagious
many toys have this problem, it's often noticed by collectors of vintage toys (SSC, barbie, MLP, etc), but supposedly new toys are getting some of these issues without waiting decades b/c the plastic to make them is cheaper
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I believe the throry for regrind on ponies with red pigment was faulty mixing on Hasbro's part. I think, again I'm not certain, that old batches already in the decay process were mixed in with newer pigments. Regrind is a result of the old pigment fully breaking down.
But my knowledge on this rather faulty so this could all be hogwash! :p
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I think mostly people just have theories- it would be nice if one of us pony people were a chemist and could let us know for certain what EXACTLY is going on, but the only chemist I know isn't particularly interested in doing that, lol
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The only chemist I know is dead, so it'll be hard to ask him about this (it would be my grandfather -- he was in his 80s, so no worries!). Otherwise, I've always wondered about it, as well. Honestly, when I see those orange or red marks I'm never sure if it's "regrind" or some kid getting happy with a marker or highlighter.
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Theory is invalid, we have our answer! :lmao:
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Thanks for the input everyone!
I'm not sure I believe ponies can get mould as mould is organic and needs other organic material to thrive. (Which is why it's most commonly found on food or in nature) I don't think the brown spots or "regrind" can be mould.
Any other theories?
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I always believed (can't remember where I read this) that every now and then, hasbro re-used plastic that was left over, but had already been coloured in with new, un-dyed plastic, and as the older plastic broke down, it's dye became unstable and leeched out, resulting in it having a different coloured dot around the leeching pores. Therefore it's the same as plasticizer breakdown, but in ponies that have had older plastic added to their batches. There were lots of pink ponies, and I think that's why most regrind is pink - it was thrown in with 'close enough' colours, like other pinks, oranges and purples. Only one pony would be created per dye batch (as there was generally only one pony per colour in a set), so only one pony would be effected, resulting in 'prone' ponies.
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This is so informative! I have a patchy party time now i know why.
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Its to do with something called "jazz" :P And its all because the manufacturing process will use polymer in pellets rather than in fibre.
Factories that are going to cast plastic moulds buy in "polymer resin" - resin comes in pellets. (I will grab a handful of these next time I am in the factory so I can show you what I mean). The pellets are like teeny tiny circular slightly raised disks - they come in various different colours. You mix the different colours with a white or clear base pellet in order to get the shade you like. The pellets are melted down until they become a liquid - at which point you add the necessary additional chemicals you may need for what you are manufacturing (this varies dramatically as at this point your polymer can become anything from a kitchen sink to a plastic shopping bag depending on how you treat or extrude it). You then go on to cast it or extrude it (again depending on what you are making) - normally with rotational moulding for an item like a toy.
Its those original pellets that cause the problem. In order to get a pink colour you could be adding red and blue and orange and yellow pellets to the mix. If your resin mix is not cured correctly when being combined it can and it will over time become unstable. That can cause some of the pellets to try and reform to their original resin. With resin polymer you have to remember you have forced it to become what you have made, it forever wants to return to its original state. In addition some times during manufacture, companies will add what is called "jazz" - which is polymer resin that is either a by product of the manufacturing process (i.e. left overs which have been converted back to pellets) or it is recycled plastics. This is essentially waste material which has already been treated and already been through several processes it can be notoriously unstable. But added in small quantities it reduces the cost of manufacture because it bulks out the liquid polymer. If you have jazz in your mix (something a lot of the biggest buyers will depend manufacturers dont do) you do run the risk of things like what we call regrind happening even more.
I am so hoping that makes sense and I have not now bored everyone :P
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So, basically the different resins want to separate causing their original colors used to to appear in spots, and recycled materials added a mix makes it more likely. Manufacturing is a fascinating process.
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LOL - yup - that sums it up in about one sentence :)
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Thank you for the info! That's fascinating. :D
Is there anything specific that's known to trigger the regrind process? Too much moisture? Too much heat? Direct sunlight?
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Anything can cause plastics to break down - from poor manufacture to environment. In the main how fast depends on the quality of the original product as well as the chemicals added as to what and how fast it deteriorates.
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All I know is regrind is evil.
I put silica pellets in all my ponies that I behead that are looking kinda gross, from what I can tell it helps things not spread as fast...
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LOL - yup - that sums it up in about one sentence :)
I've watched a bunch of episodes of How It's Made, so I known about the pellets you're talking about. It would be neat to get some raw pellets.
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There's a lot of really good old threads with information:
Here's one:
http://www.mlparena.com/archive/Forums//viewtopic/t=151706/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html
http://www.mlppreservationproject.com/body.html
http://www.mylittleponynews.com/2011/03/pony-science-pindot-cause.html
http://www.mylittleponynews.com/2010/10/pony-science-pony-cancer-under.html
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All I know is regrind is evil.
I put silica pellets in all my ponies that I behead that are looking kinda gross, from what I can tell it helps things not spread as fast...
I just bought a big bag of these! It's great that you can bake them to "revive" the pellets. I'm planning to keep some inside my ponies, as there's always going to be humidity in a room supporting 70 gallons of water, even though we don't see it or feel it. :sqs:
It's great for after pony spa day, too.
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All I know is regrind is evil.
I put silica pellets in all my ponies that I behead that are looking kinda gross, from what I can tell it helps things not spread as fast...
I just bought a big bag of these! It's great that you can bake them to "revive" the pellets. I'm planning to keep some inside my ponies, as there's always going to be humidity in a room supporting 70 gallons of water, even though we don't see it or feel it. :sqs:
It's great for after pony spa day, too.
You know, just to be on the safe side, I was just thinking of getting a small dehumidifier for my bathroom (there is no vent in the room and the toy room is next door).
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All I know is regrind is evil.
I put silica pellets in all my ponies that I behead that are looking kinda gross, from what I can tell it helps things not spread as fast...
I just bought a big bag of these! It's great that you can bake them to "revive" the pellets. I'm planning to keep some inside my ponies, as there's always going to be humidity in a room supporting 70 gallons of water, even though we don't see it or feel it. :sqs:
It's great for after pony spa day, too.
You know, just to be on the safe side, I was just thinking of getting a small dehumidifier for my bathroom (there is no vent in the room and the toy room is next door).
That sounds like a great idea! Just make sure it's not way too loud before you buy...some of them can sound scary.
Ours just makes the sound of the air moving out of the fan blades and it's pretty cool. I don't think I could have one running in my room, but it sounds a lot better than the yucky slow bathroom fan we have. Takes ages..,
Post Merge: November 16, 2014, 05:24:56 PM
There's a lot of really good old threads with information:
Here's one:
http://www.mlparena.com/archive/Forums//viewtopic/t=151706/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html
http://www.mlppreservationproject.com/body.html
http://www.mylittleponynews.com/2011/03/pony-science-pindot-cause.html
http://www.mylittleponynews.com/2010/10/pony-science-pony-cancer-under.html
These are all really great resources for getting your gears turning.
One of the things that stuck with me from all these things was to dry ponies until you're 100% sure they're dry. If you boil them, take out those tails and let them sit somewhere that they'll have a better chance of drying. (Near a fan, sunny location, windy spot outside...) Sometimes this may take days. If your finger feels any moisture remaining inside the pony or its legs, do not put the head back on. Moisture remains inside the body longer than you would think. I've had two girls headless for two+ days now in a room with a fan. Not taking any chances. :shocked:
How to deal with/"treat" pony Cancer/regrind hasn't been found to have a single concrete answer, but it's worth reading that archived thread to see what people have done and what others have found to lead to these problems in the future.
My only personal success has been with peroxide and sun, but I can't recommend that for every single case.