The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: babylofty on August 18, 2014, 08:53:23 AM
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Hi all,
I got this email last night, and thought I'd pass this information on. I have bolded some very important passages for sellers.
We are writing to let you know about updates to the eBay User Agreement, User Privacy Notice (formerly known as Privacy Policy), and Money Back Guarantee (formerly known as Buyer Protection Policy). The updated User Agreement, User Privacy Notice, and Money Back Guarantee were posted on www.ebay.com on August 12, 2014.
The updated User Agreement is effective September 15, 2014, or upon acceptance for users who accept it via electronic click-through prior to September 15, 2014. The User Privacy Notice and Money Back Guarantee are effective immediately for new users and on September 15, 2014, for current users.
Key updates to the eBay User Agreement:
Using eBay. Updates were made to clarify that users shall not use eBay's or other users' content without permission. This section has also been updated to indicate steps eBay may take to address abuse of its services and to make it clear that eBay may terminate or refuse service to anyone at its sole discretion.
Listing Conditions. This section has been updated to reflect that content that violates our policies may be deleted at our discretion.
Purchase Conditions. This section has been updated to make it clear that when you purchase an item on an eBay site other than eBay.com, you are subject to the User Agreement of that other site with respect to that purchase.
Translation. We augmented this section to indicate that, when automated translation tools are available, you direct us to use them to translate your listings into local languages and to provide you with access to translations of other users' listings.
Recording Calls. eBay may monitor or record telephone conversations with eBay or its agents for quality control and training purposes or for its own protection.
Returns. We updated this section to clarify that if eBay hassle-free returns are applied to your listings, you authorize eBay to remove the refund amount from your PayPal account, place the amount on your invoice, and/or charge your payment method on file. By the 2015 holiday season, all eligible domestic returns on eBay will be eBay hassle-free returns and sellers may not remove hassle-free return settings from their listings. We updated this section also to reflect this future change.
Global Shipping Program. We updated this section to underscore that for eligible listings for which you have not previously specified an international shipping option, buyers from select countries will be shown an International Priority Shipping option with end-to-end international tracking plus an estimate of associated import charges which will be confirmed for and paid by your buyer at checkout. If a buyer from one of the select countries purchases your eligible item, you simply ship the item to a US shipping center. Once accepted at the US shipping center, a global shipping provider handles the international shipping, customs clearance, and delivery of the item to your international buyer. Sellers are not responsible for any loss or damage during the international leg of the shipment; buyers take on compliance responsibility for the export and import shipment.
Money Back Guarantee. We updated this section to reflect changes in the Money Back Guarantee, specifically that sellers are responsible for return shipping costs if an item is not as described and that, if an eBay-generated return shipping label is used for return shipping on items not as described, we place the return shipping label cost on the seller's invoice.
Agreement to Arbitrate. With limited exception, all issues with respect to disputes between you and eBay will continue to be decided by binding arbitration on an individual, non-class, non-representative basis, unless you have opted out under the terms of the Agreement to Arbitrate. Updates made to the Agreement to Arbitrate include the following:
You may assert claims in small claims court, if your claims qualify, so long as the matter remains in such court and advances only on an individual, non-class, non-representative basis.
The arbitrator will decide all issues except issues regarding whether a dispute is subject to arbitration, the scope or enforceability of the Agreement to Arbitrate, or the interpretation of Section 1 of the Agreement to Arbitrate, which will all be issues a court, not the arbitrator, will decide.
In the interest of ensuring that you and eBay may provide each other an opportunity to work out any disputes between us before resorting to arbitration, you and eBay must send each other a Notice of Dispute that explains the nature of the dispute before initiating arbitration. If the dispute is not resolved within 30 days of sending the notice, arbitration may then be initiated.
eBay User Privacy Notice
Key updates to the eBay User Privacy Notice:
Name Change. We updated the eBay Privacy Policy to be more user-friendly and easier to read, starting with its name. Going forward, it will be called the User Privacy Notice. This name change does not reduce or change any of our commitments or responsibilities under the former Privacy Policy.
Organization. We organized the sections and their titles to make our practices more clear and transparent.
Summary Section. We added a summary section to the notice that allows you to quickly refer to key aspects of the notice and our privacy practices, and then links them directly to the more detailed sections, should you want to find out more information about an individual section or privacy practice.
Icons. The most visible change to the Privacy Notice is the addition of icons for each section and the corresponding privacy practices to enable quick, visual navigation.
eBay Money Back Guarantee
Key updates to the eBay Money Back Guarantee:
Consistent After-Sale Experience. We updated the policy to reflect that we're simplifying the after-sale experience for buyers and sellers with a new improved return process that gives buyers a more convenient and consistent way to return items—right from My eBay. Many of our sellers who use eBay hassle-free returns are paying for return shipping on faulty or not-as-described items. Starting September 15, an initial group of sellers, (and after a transition period, all remaining sellers) will be responsible for return shipping on items which are faulty or not-as-described. Many sellers are facilitating returns for faulty or not as described items, but for those sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item, we may refund their buyers without requiring the buyers to return the item, and in turn seek reimbursement from sellers.
Timelines. We updated the policy to clarify timelines for buyers and sellers when an item isn't received or isn't as described in the listing. For items that offer hassle-free returns, eBay will automatically issue a refund after the refund deadline has passed. When sellers offer extended return timeframes that are longer than the standard eBay Money Back Guarantee protection window, eligibility will be extended to protect these returns when sellers don't refund buyers in accordance with their return policy.
Local Pick-up or Freighted Items. We updated the policy to clarify that items damaged during pick-up or shipping, or not delivered when the buyer has arranged pick-up or freight, are not covered under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. We refer buyers to work with the freight company in such instances.
Appeals. We shortened the window for appeals from 45 days to 30 days after we make a decision about a transaction issue.
As with previous updates, other changes have been made to keep the User Agreement, User Privacy Notice, and Money Back Guarantee up-to-date with our product and service offerings. We encourage you to review the updated eBay User Agreement, User Privacy Notice, and Money Back Guarantee—they will apply to your account as of the dates noted above. If you choose not to accept the updated terms, visit this help page for further direction.
Thank you for being a part of the eBay Community.
Sincerely,
The eBay Team
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wow!
that doesn't seem good. it's nice they are protecting the buyers, but what about the sellers?
what's to stop them from making a false claim and winning.
crap... now i need to find some place else to sell.
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I think I read this somewhere else too, very disturbing changes, it is definitely going to drive out a lot of the small-scale sellers (like pony and doll people).
looks like I had better get all my extra stuff sold before Christmas!!! :blink:
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Looks like I better find a different place to sell as well. :blink: Too much buyer protection, not enough seller protection.
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You just have to be VERY specific with ebay. Use clear language* and if you don't have the time to describe an item carefully, and instead want to refer buyers to pictures it's best to skip ebay.
By clear language, avoid using collector terminology someone outside the community wouldn't understand. Don't call a lot of bait ponies "baits" it's a collecting term and someone may not understand this means items in terrible condition. I remember a few people being bit by this already. :(
I'm actually happy they did this. It's a shame they've made it harder for nice sellers who do refer to accurate photos but I've gotten in a few lots were every effort to not disclose flaws where made, or the item was so terribly packaged for shipping some of the ponies became damaged, or some accessories slipped out and never made it to me. :( (one lot ponies all had initials under hooves, and the seller said NOTHING when I asked if there was ink, or writing in ink anywhere on the ponies, just said "they need to be cleaned and the hair is messy"), there was pictures of everything else too, just not ink marks. In each case my out of pocket costs to return would have been too high for me to bother with the hassle.
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Oh I'm not worried about the requirement to describe your items carefully, what is scary is this:
for those sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item, we may refund their buyers without requiring the buyers to return the item, and in turn seek reimbursement from sellers.
That means if some skeezy buyer claims that your item wasn't what they were expecting/as described and/or broken (even if it was) they can get a refund WITHOUT EVEN SENDING THE ITEM BACK. What if they changed it or broke it themselves? Just seems like a policy that could be very problematic...
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This is super frustrating!
I am glad that eBay wants to give buyers added peace of mind by keeping sellers more accountable... But, requiring that sellers provide returns in all cases, Not requiring that a buyer return an item that they deem faulty, and -finally- shortening the appeal time for honest sellers is, well, ugly. Profitable for eBay as a business, perhaps, but a huge detriment to the many small businesses that utilize their service.
Personally, I think it best to contact eBay and let them know how this will affect small businesses and cause greater opportunity for dishonesty or poor communication in buyers. Not that it will necessarily change things now, but the more feedback they receive the better than can serve both buyers and seller (and hopefully amend these new terms in the near future).
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Oh, Galactica, I do agree with you. I forgot to include that in my initial reply. I cannot put my morals on other people, because I don't buy with the intent to extort (I just want an as photographed/described item), doesn't mean the bad buyers don't exist. for small scale sellers the bad apple buyers will have enough of an impact to drive those sellers away. It is really sad. As a buyer though in recent years I stopped buying as much, even with being as careful as I can and asking questions about an item and how it will be packaged for shipping I kept getting burned enough that now ebay is more a rarity for me.... Only times I do pay collecting prices is to a small list of sellers I trust, and others, if I win it'll be decent/fair if there are issues and an excellent deal if items arrive as shown.
My childhood friends started on ebay since it's inception. they sold a LOT, enough that in the late 90's they would pay us as a packaging crew for all the outgoing mail. and now, no more selling account. In recent years they had too many people bid and attempt to extort discounts after the fact and a couple people who destroyed a purchase and stole/replaced parts and returned disfigured dolls to get their money back. (which, both calls to ebay and paypal did nothing!! they were out dolls, money)
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well, I wasn't too keen to try selling on ebay now it looks like the very idea is completely out the window.
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Oh I'm not worried about the requirement to describe your items carefully, what is scary is this:
for those sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item, we may refund their buyers without requiring the buyers to return the item, and in turn seek reimbursement from sellers.
That means if some skeezy buyer claims that your item wasn't what they were expecting/as described and/or broken (even if it was) they can get a refund WITHOUT EVEN SENDING THE ITEM BACK. What if they changed it or broke it themselves? Just seems like a policy that could be very problematic...
^I agree, I find this extremely scary and disturbing as well :huh: I can see people abusing this to get free stuff, even if there is no "real" problem with the item. I guess I'll just have to wait and see if this starts becoming an issue once the policy is put into place... It just makes me super nervous.
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Oh I'm not worried about the requirement to describe your items carefully, what is scary is this:
for those sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item, we may refund their buyers without requiring the buyers to return the item, and in turn seek reimbursement from sellers.
It's not great, but really it's not THAT bad. It's for sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item.
Items like that should be returned, and a seller should be held responsible for it.
I get it that people lie about these sorts of things, but they lie about them now. A seller just needs to be extra careful and very descriptive in their listings-- as always.
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what about the case where ponies were described in detail with pics, they arrived and the buyer was not happy they weren't mint and WON her freaking case?
I know a lot of people don't read the T&C (where is the best place to hide a body? in the Terms and Conditions. ba-dum-bum-tch!) but at this point if someone gets something and says "this isn't what I ordered" they are responsible for sending it back.
now the seller becomes responsible for a complete refund of item and shipping fees there, now shipping fees back to them (one way or another I'm sure even if they never receive the item) and they still are on the line for ebay and paypal fees, etc. so it will cost a whole lot more than it is worth to sell just about anything on ebay unless you are a giant corporation taking advantage of people on ebay like Goodwill Industries.
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That is unreal, even in a store situation they do not have such a return policy! I can not imagine power sellers are going to like it any better then us small sellers. Totally unrealistic to not have to return the item, anywhere else when you buy something you have to in order to get your money back give the item back!
So gonna get as much on as I can before that point and be selective of what I list after it.
We are normally very detailed but man for a small seller stand point what a PITA.
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This is why I'm slowly moving my stuff over to Etsy. The people are really nice there, too.
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Oh boy... :( Well there's always Arena sales!
*goes off to browse*
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Yep they are doing that with ebay UK too (and adding the GSP which I was hoping they wouldnt but am not surprised that they are *rolleyes* definitely opting out of that rubbish! ) :(
ebay is a difficult place for sellers these days....
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I sold a bra (unworn, thank you! :lol:) with tags back in December. I said in the auction that "Due to the personal nature of this item, I cannot accept returns." Can you imagine if the person who'd bought it decided they didn't want it now, under those terms that are coming, and I HAD to pay for it to be returned to me? So not only do I get a used item back that was new when I sold it, but now I've lost a sale, which, good conscious, I couldn't try to re-sell!
Definitely going to be selling my ponies here and on the TP. I need to hustle on getting the rest of my non-pony stuff up on ebay and sold ASAP though.
I'm really disappointed in Ebay (I know, we all have been for a while now). But it should be up to to the SELLER'S discretion on whether we want to accept returns or not, not Ebay's. Yes, we represent Ebay, but they need to start acting in sellers best interests, not just buyers!
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Oh I'm not worried about the requirement to describe your items carefully, what is scary is this:
for those sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item, we may refund their buyers without requiring the buyers to return the item, and in turn seek reimbursement from sellers.
That means if some skeezy buyer claims that your item wasn't what they were expecting/as described and/or broken (even if it was) they can get a refund WITHOUT EVEN SENDING THE ITEM BACK. What if they changed it or broke it themselves? Just seems like a policy that could be very problematic...
Exactly! Beyond that, what if some skeezy buyer purchases a pony as an upgrade from one they already own and then claim the poor condition one is what was sent and try to return it. Do we really think eBay is going to look at each case carefully and fairly? Nope. They are going to side with the buyer and if the seller puts up any kind of a fuss they'll just refund the buyer and make us pay for it later without having the item returned. We've seen this kind of thing happen before in the community, but because we weren't obligated to accept refunds it usually turned out okay. And it really seems that the sellers are going to be completely responsible for damage done in transit. I always thought that USPS required return of the damaged item in most cases before a compensation could be issued. So what if the buyer doesn't return the damaged item? How is the seller to get compensated for damage done in transit?
The TOS are becoming so slanted toward buyer protection that before long no one is going to be buying on eBay because there will be nothing to buy! With this possibility combined with having to wait weeks for funds to be released from Paypal, why would anyone but high volume sellers choose to sell on eBay anymore? I'll stick to the Arena!
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If you read it carefully as long as the buyer is willing to pay the return shipping it sounds like the buyer must send back the item. It seems to read that if you do not then that is when they are gonna stick it to the seller and let the buyer keep the item and get their money back.
This is still gonna stink because we all know their are folks out there that are gonna scam and buy your good item and send back their crappy one.
Still not liking it and still gonna sell as much of the none sense stuff before this goes into effect.
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The buy and switch scam has been pulled off for years on ebay, with PP/Ebay siding with buyers. Friends that sold electronics stopped due to the buyer getting a replacement from them, and returning their old faulty unit. And the doll story I mentioned in a previous comment, buyer bought the doll, swapped the parts off they needed and returned a ruined doll with their damaged parts claiming the box had gotten wet during postage (to rub salt in the wound the buyer soaked the antique doll they stole parts from. NICE) :huh:
Selling anywhere there is potential for loss, on ebay you could have a bidding war, or someone picking up a BIN from you at a much higher price, it's not terrible if your investment in stock is very low, selling prices are high enough that some losses still pull you out ahead enough to justify the time and expense. If you can't afford the higher % of losses, then forums are your best bet. I prefer selling directly to forum members myself, as my costs are high enough (since I buy to collect, not to resell) that most of my items break me even-steven.
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My parents rely on Ebay for a large portion of their income. They already have problems with having to accept returns on things that people claim are not as described (typically its shoes and it's size. Example the shoe says size 7. The buyer wears a size 7. They buy the shoe, and its not a good fit. The buyer claims "ITEM NOT AS DESCRIBED! OMG YOU LIED! YOU MUST HAVE CHANGED THE SIZE MARKING ON THE SHOE BECASUE IT DOESNT FIT MY PERFECT FOOT!! (seriously guys this happens a lot, people really say that) and ebay almost always sides with the buyers. Even when the item is EXACTLY as described.) This happens enough that ebay has now started holding their funds because they think it is somehow a reflection them as sellers that people want to return things, but really it's because people are crazy. Now they won't stand a chance in hell of ever winning any of those cases, ever. Ebay will automatically make them accept returns AND pay for the return shipping? Ugh. UGH.
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Honestly I deal with a lot of this already. Yeah they're forcing sellers to pay return shipping, but you're already basically expected to, or you get negative feedback. We deal with this constantly at work (I manage 2 ebay stores.) Ebay just hasn't enforced it until now. Imo, if the item really is defective, the seller should be paying it anyways. That doesn't count the liars, scammers, and idiots, though we get a decent amount of those too, unfortunately. Keep in mind that it's on defective/not as described only, they won't force you to pay return shipping for other returns. Yeah scammers may get around that, but they already do, so it's not going to change much.
I don't like the refund without returns, but that seems like it's only if you refuse to accept the defective item back or offer a refund. If you tell them to send it back, they'll need to in order to get a refund. I'm guessing it's if they open a case and escalate because you won't take the defective/not as described item back or give them the refund.
These don't bug me nearly as much as their new defect system ('hey let's implement this system but only half of it so sellers are screwed til the rest is released!') and the fact that they removed the toys category from their free BIN promotions...
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Oh I'm not worried about the requirement to describe your items carefully, what is scary is this:
for those sellers who choose not to facilitate a return or provide a return shipping label for a faulty or not as described item, we may refund their buyers without requiring the buyers to return the item, and in turn seek reimbursement from sellers.
That means if some skeezy buyer claims that your item wasn't what they were expecting/as described and/or broken (even if it was) they can get a refund WITHOUT EVEN SENDING THE ITEM BACK. What if they changed it or broke it themselves? Just seems like a policy that could be very problematic...
I think a lot of people will get perfect items, but tell eBay they arrived damaged in order to get a freebie. :|
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This is why I'm slowly moving my stuff over to Etsy. The people are really nice there, too.
Seconded!!
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Well, but in the past if you opened a not as described case, the buyer still had to pay for return shipping - so at least with scammers/liars trying to get their money back they had to return the item out of their own pocket. Now there is absolutely nothing to deter people from screwing sellers over, because lets face it, even if in item is exactly as described probably 99 times out of 100 ebay sides with the buyer anyway.
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Yeah I'm definitely no longer selling on eBay :\
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Ugh! What a pain, I only sell things that don't sell well here on ebay, it is my back up to get rid of things....who wants to deal with forced returns? Guhhh that sucks.
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This really concerns me. However, I'm usually very good with compromise!
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Yep. ebay has finally lost their minds completely. sadly i still have remained a buyer just not a seller due to their nonsense. but now there wont be much of anything on ebay to BUY should this be implemented because no one wants to risk losing their item outright because scummy buyers will take advantage and have absolutely no deterent
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To me, the most major issue here is that eBay wants to generate a customer service experience that rivals the "big dog" competitors (online retailers like Toys R Us that have Brick and mortar stores and Amazon), but the problem is, completely UNLIKE their competitors, they DO NOT HOLD INVENTORY. Their hundreds of thousands of sellers do, and once all this is in place, their sellers will ALSO end up getting stuck with the losses that eBay facilitates. These losses are easily absorbed by larger companies, where small-time sellers cannot. Therefore, while their wants and wishes have great vision, they fall short on perspective.
Now, I will say, that since eBay started, there have always been bad buyers and bad sellers. Nothing has changed. Just the rules. All these other sites that have very limited sales structure (like Etsy, etc.) also have a great deal more scamming sellers and buyers because they lack rules.
As a buyer, I would be very dissuaded from buying there because of that lack of protection, as are many other buyers. So as a seller, I am not going to sell there because my buyers will be elsewhere. So there are always pros and cons. In the end they all even out.
Any time you sell any thing to any one any where, there is always a risk. And the pendulum swings both ways.
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WOW! EBAY are you run by a bunch of animals?