The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Off Topic => Topic started by: Majesty on May 19, 2014, 06:50:58 PM
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In case you don't know Dingos are Australian wild dogs. I work at McDonald's and I see several people with a Dingo and it's their pet obviously. I asked just to be sure. I asked how you get one, because to me that's no different than someone from Australia owning a Coyote or wolf. Someone told me today you can order one. I know people have pets they buy shipped and they go on planes and stuff. But, do people in Australia kidnap Dingo pups and raise them to sell to people? Sorry if that sounds weird but in my mind it's just like someone selling Coyotes or wolves from the US like I said. I can't get my mind around it.
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Dingos???
I didn't even know you could keep those as pets! Especially here in the states!
I'm afraid i have no info to add but I hope someone else does because now I'm relay curious as well :/
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Well, that's alarming.
I found a website that looks interesting: http://www.dingodiscovery.net/owning.php
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Interesting. Would never have occurred to me to import a dingo.
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Why? I mean, I might understand an Australian person with a pet dingo, but to export them to the USA? :huh: Just get a dog! I have seen mutts and village dogs that look very much like dingos...maybe that's what you saw (she says hopefully).
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It's illegal to own a dingo as a pet in most states. The species is actually under threat because of interbreeding with wild dogs.
And if you were to mention the possibility of an Australian owning a dingo as a pet outside this understanding forum, it would be met with derision. It's a bit like saying people from the bayou or everglades keep alligators as pets and take them for a walk down the street.
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[merging posts - kkat]
Above paragraph should read ."Australian States".
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I think that's unnecessary (yes, choice of wording may offend some people, please just ignore me if you don't like my wording, I've stopped taking English Literature so my vocabulary has decreased dramatically....!) but it just seems unfair to them to transport them all that way. hmm. Well, humans think they're better than everyone else, so whatever, it won't make me get a Dingo imported to the UK.
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Because they're a protected species I would imagine someone has just brought over some cross bred animals and bred from there.
They are beautiful creatures, and well worth investigating further, if you're a canine fan. If I remember correctly, pure Dingo is likely to die out in our lifetime.
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Because something is beautiful it doesn't automatically make it a good idea to take one on as a pet.
Reading that site, how very sensitive they are, what kind of a commitment they need, it makes me really question why they are suitable as pets at all. Haven't we got enough dogs, cats, horses, etc etc ect that aren't being properly cared for already? Shelters are overloaded across the western world, but in stead of looking after what we've already got we are looking to take on even more species..
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And if you were to mention the possibility of an Australian owning a dingo as a pet outside this understanding forum, it would be met with derision. It's a bit like saying people from the bayou or everglades keep alligators as pets and take them for a walk down the street.
Don't worry, I didn't mean it like that. It's more like, if those Americans wanted to keep a wild dog as a pet, surely it'd be easier to go for a coyote, which actually occur naturally in America, rather than shipping one from the other side of the planet. Not like, 'Hey, I bet Aussie kids have koalas as pets'. ;)
It really is such a shame that these animals are under threat though, like the new guinea singing dogs too that I was listening to a radio programme about. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if coyotes become endangered in the future, despite their adaptability. :(
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Wow that's just insane :shocked: Even if they're not purebreds and maybe just ½ Dingo, I would think it dangerous to own one :huh:
I recently saw an episode of "The Dog Whisperer" (with dog trainer Cesar Millan) where some people had wolf/dog hybrids as pets (think they were ½ wolf and ½ dog) and had huge problems controlling them :huh: Cesar had a wolf expert or something like that with him and it ended up the owners were told they had to treat them as wolves because they're more wolf in personality than dog.
I personally believe that no one should be able to own a wild animal or even hybrids, it's just too dangerous both for the owners and for any people who might get hurt by one of these animals :huh: It's also a pity for the animal in my opinion if they're more wild in nature and should actually be running free somewhere or at least in a nature reserve or a humongous enclosure. At the very least, people who wish to own them should be informed of what they're getting and be forced to go through some course in how they need to interact and train the animal, get a sort of license if you will :huh:
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Just making sure, Whippy! ♡
It's so ironic that irresponsible owners (in various ways) are both perpetuating the species in some form overseas, and diluting their genetics in Australia by allowing their dogs and offspring to become feral and interbreed.
It's widely believed that pure Dingos, like wolves, will run from people. It's the feral crossbred that kill cattle and, er, steal babies (true story)
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People in the US (and elsewhere) keep way crazier wild animals as pets. Giraffes, monkeys, and popular wildcats like tigers, cheetahs and pumas. With enough money and permits, you can pretty much do anything you want, including getting around ordinances and bans.
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I imagine they're captive bred, much like all the lion and tiger pets out there. There are multiple times more pet tigers than wild tigers now, but they don't typically use the pets in breeding programs once the people realize they can't take care of them anymore, the pet breeding isn't well documented or regulated so they don't want to introduce that dna into the captive breeding programs aimed at conservation. You can order just about any animal as a pet. Most states have minimal regulations in regards to exotics.
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There are people with Dingos in the US- but those dingos are Carolina Dogs, or American Dingos. So they have nothing to do with the dingos in Australia. They aren't illegal to keep, although some communities may have restrictions (as they do against many dog types)
I actually know a couple with a dingo- they bought her from a breeder. They didn't set out wanting a dingo though- what happened was that they retired- and spent six months or so at a beach house in Roatan Honduras (little dive island). My wife and I actually came to visit at the beginning of the trip- which is when they/us were adopted by one of the (many) stray "beach dogs" who started hanging out with us, going on walks with us, and guarding our house. She was a remarkable dog- frighteningly intelligent, but so sweet and gentle. She had also clearly also had a rough life. They named her "Scarlet" because she had these large machete scars on her back and across her face. When it was finally time for my friends to return to the US, they couldn't leave their new dog friend, and before they left, they got her fixed, all her shots, and took her with them. Unfortunately, it turned out that she had every dog disease and parasite known to dog-kind, and she actually didn't live long. When she died their hearts were completely broken- so they got a dingo from a breeder, hoping to get another dog like scarlet. Well, that isn't exactly what they got. It turns out that dingos are a very challenging kind of dog to own. Scarlet had actually been an older dog, but a dingo puppy is another matter. The puppy was almost out of control active. They actually had to get completely into dog agility just to keep her occupied, and now that is what our friend does in ALL of her free time (which is saying something, as they are retired)(. Dingos should definitely NOT be kept by any but the most experienced dog-owners, who also have a LOT of free time.
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Hummm..
So, these are not being imported at all, and are actually native to the US. Atleast, this is what I hope. As far as I know, they are needed back 'home' where there is a huge rabbit problem ((*runs away from Kiwi*))
I don't agree with people owning an exotic pet...but im not going to get into my views on why. If its getting popular to own a dingo over a domesticated dog, then im very afraid :(
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Yeah not something I would want to commit to. I think people love show off look what I have more then anything. Just because it's hand raised does not make it domesticated. They just kinda get stuck in a rut then. They can never be released in the wild because they have no clue how to survive, yet they could never be trusted to not have that wild instinct randomly pop out.
If anyone wants a coyote though, north east Ohio's population of them has gone way up! Please come take them :P I have little dogs and the idea of getting a big dog to protect my small ones has crosses my mind a lot.
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Gotta be honest, I was not aware of the status of Dingos, I did not thing they were protected at all. I thought they were an invasive species since they did not originate in Australia and were brought over by settlers (This might just be the American in me, but that was what I honestly thought/was taught). I remember in school them teaching us that Dingos were like the horses in North America, they did not belong there and were brought over for human use/purpose and because they were introduced they were not a native species. Because they've both been around so long and people enjoy them it just kind of gets shrugged off or are not seen as an invasive species. (Don't even get me started on feral horses in North America!)
I also would assume its like everything else in the animal world with enough money you can legally (and illegally) own it. Tigers, lynx, and to a more domestic extend Savannah cats, are all legal with the right permits in the united states so I didn't assume that Dingos were any different. Its a "if you want it bad enough and are willing to pay enough money you can legally do it" situation.
I saw the comments of "why don't the Americans just get a coyote and not a Dingo?" but I think that's part of the appeal, because its not found in that area I would assume its more preferred than getting something found in the buyers area. If you went to a pet store to buy fish no one would ask "why do you want cichlids or goldfish, why don't you get gambusia or some brim because they're native?", The buyer wants most likely wants something "exotic". Its the same thing, because its an animal not regularly found in that area there's a certain appeal to them.
I'm kind of torn on the issue, I worked for department of natural resources for so long and I saw alot of debates regarding pets and wildlife. I have my own opinions about things like feral cats, feral horses, feral dogs, ect but I wont go into it. I am open minded and I like to see what other people think. Its a very weird area debating the whole "how long an animal has to be somewhere before people consider it native and try to protect it?" If the feral horse population on Cumberland islands started to drop should they try to protect them? Why? The species was not native, it does not belong there, but its been there so long people consider it wildlife, see its all kind of a gray confusing debatable on both side argument. :/
Oh oh! Another gray area I always have issues with is i'm torn about people keeping "wild" animals. I know in my younger days I though " its wrong to keep wild animals and try to domesticate them" but all animals started off wild at one point or another. Horses, dogs, cats, birds, pigs, sheep ect ect ect and humans captured them and bred them to domesticate them and turn them into what they wanted them to be, so as I grew older I began to linger more in the gray area on that as well. :/ Where do you draw the line and say these are wild to stay wild, and these are wild that are being domesticated? All gray areas.
I'm curious to continue reading everyone's comments though!
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There are people with Dingos in the US- but those dingos are Carolina Dogs, or American Dingos. So they have nothing to do with the dingos in Australia.
Ah, yes, that makes a bit more sense. I think genetic tests would be needed to tell some village dogs from true Carolina Dogs, though maybe the more ancestral behaviour gives Carolina's and their hybrids away. Some researchers have argued that the New Guinea Singing Dogs aren't a separate species and are just village dogs, despite their unique behaviour. When all these species share their ancestry, it's kinda inevitable that they will share similarities. I think they can give a unique insight into the history of dogs. :)
If its getting popular to own a dingo over a domesticated dog, then im very afraid :(
I get this a bit too. Truly domesticated dogs have discernibly different brain function and social behaviour from their wild Canid cousins (though I think less is known about how they compare with Dingos etc than Wolves), and have evolved specifically to interact closely with humans. As we saw from the thread about the 'Cat saves child' video, even a domestic dog can be unpredictable. I think messing with wild dogs and their hybrids is courting unnecessary risks. :huh:
Its a very weird area debating the whole "how long an animal has to be somewhere before people consider it native and try to protect it?"
I think this is a good question and a tough one to answer, especially as we humans have moved animals (and indeed plants) around with us for thousands of years. The dogs probably made it to the Americas in one of the early waves of human migration, and thus I would consider them just as native as those peoples, and a similar story applies to the Australian Dingo.
I think for the most part, people get used to 'how things are' and decide that is 'how they should be'. Like in Britain, efforts are made to maintain our countryside as it currently is, although the landscape around us is largely a result of deforestation, human-induced extinctions and overgrazing over the past few thousand years. Any suggestions of reintroduction of native species (or 'rewilding') are met with outrage.
:shrug:
I know in my younger days I though " its wrong to keep wild animals and try to domesticate them" but all animals started off wild at one point or another. Horses, dogs, cats, birds, pigs, sheep ect ect ect ...
Just a last bit on this. :P I'd personally draw the line (at least) at predators...the majority of domesticated animals are prey animals, and I think there is a reason for that. Dogs (and possibly cats) pretty much domesticated themselves over thousands of years...whereas we have only relatively recently started taking these other large predators into captivity. Some studies like the Farm-Fox experiment show that with fast-breeding species and very aggressive breeding programs, it is possible to selectively breed for tameness. But considering that we still have problems with domestic dogs, I'd rather we didn't take the risk with larger potentially more dangerous predators!
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Just a last bit on this. :P I'd personally draw the line (at least) at predators...the majority of domesticated animals are prey animals, and I think there is a reason for that. Dogs (and possibly cats) pretty much domesticated themselves over thousands of years...whereas we have only relatively recently started taking these other large predators into captivity. Some studies like the Farm-Fox experiment show that with fast-breeding species and very aggressive breeding programs, it is possible to selectively breed for tameness. But considering that we still have problems with domestic dogs, I'd rather we didn't take the risk with larger potentially more dangerous predators!
I can understand the concern of domesticating predators and I did read the fox research they did, the things that I always thought got over looked was disease. When humans domesticate anything they increase their exposure t0o disease. Many of the diseases we have today came from the domestication of prey animals.
Its always a tough call to decide where to draw the line and I gotta be honest, I would not want the job!
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I didn't realize there were different kinds of dingos. I always assumed when someone said Dingo that was the Australian wild dog. I did ask the customers who had the dingos and they told me flat out they were dingos and sort of acted like their dog was their most prized possession but not in a good way--not sure if that makes sense. I am an animal lover and love my cat like I would my child (even though I don't have any). I'm one of those people who believe pets are people too. They have feelings and love you unconditionally.
The customer who said he ordered his--hopefully he didn't get it from Australia but it sounds like it to me.
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As a person who has had a LOT of contact with dingos, I have very strong opinions on them. When I was a child, dingoes were a huge problem for livestock owners, we even have a 'Dingo Barrier Fence' in the region where I grew up. It was erected to prevent dingoes from crossing into properties that had livestock (mostly sheep, but cattle too) and killing/maiming them. Back then, the government paid people for dingo pelts. So my step father, who had cattle and horses, would find a den (usually a hollow log), take the puppies bar one, and set traps around the den to catch the mother. The mother was then caught and killed, and the puppies were raised at the farm until they were older, at which point they were sold to the 'pelt agent', pts, and all pelts were sold to the Department of Primary Industries (I believe it was that department, I may be incorrect). All of this was a government initiative to prevent dingos overpopulating and killing livestock. Dingoes did a lot of damage back then, dozens of calves and lambs, and often with large packs the mother delivering, were maimed or killed, and saleyards will not take bitten stock (in case of infection) so the farmers essentially lost the calf, even if it survived, as it was not sell-able. Then the government swung from "This is what we want you to do with the dingoes on your land", to "Dingoes are endangered! Protect them". It's very similar to the kangaroo/wallaby situation in that regard, from vast overpopulation to endangered, because the government had no idea how to effectively balance their wildlife population. So those early people are not to blame, they were dealing with their problem in the way their government told them too. Yes it seems horrible, but it was how they sustained their livelihood.
Now on the subject of the puppies, They are very much like normal puppies in the beginning. We used to have working dogs as well, and at one stage with the seven dingo pups we had, there were 24 puppies in our yard! They all behaved very similarly, and got along as well as anyone could expect of normal dogs. But I was always told to be more wary of them as they got older, as they were more prone to biting, fighting over food, and generally more aggressive behaviour, despite being raised in the farmhouse - and they weren't even fully grown yet. They are beautiful dogs, but they live on the move, and have an instinct for killing. A purebred dingo might make a pet, f it was an only dog, for a person who has a lot of time to curb any bad habits and keep them busy, but it's not a job for the normal person who has a job or a family, or a life outside of caring for a dog, really. They need full attention to maintain their loyalty and trust, or they might start looking for more 'natural' ways to spend their time, like killing small animals, digging their way out of their enclosure, or tearing on anything they can get their teeth around.
And crossbreds, now there's the worry. I have no doubt that a crossbred dingo could kill a person, because they haven't the fear of humans that a dingo has. They lack the submissive nature of a pure dingo. They have the familiarity of people bred into them, but that killer pack instinct of a wild animal. I've been surrounded by a pack of Alsatian x Dingo pups, and if I hadn't been on my own horse, who knows how to handle savage dogs, I'm not sure how it would have gone. If I'd been on a spooky young horse, I probably wouldn't have made it out of there without at least one of us or both being bitten. They are scary, and they need to be eradicted - they are definitely NOT safe as pets.
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When I lived in Alaska, there was a lady who had a new guinea singing dog. She would bring it to the dog park but would chase it away from the fence and trees because apparently they can climb them.
I had dog that was part wolf. It was like living with a 10 year old child.
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Stormness, your story about the dingos just goes to show that monetising the control of any animal population is the wrong way to go about it. I think population control matters should be handled in a very scientific way and the job assigned to specific wardens who have knowledge of the population ecology of the animals. This is because the wrong amount of culling can have very different effects on the population. Over-culling obviously leads to extinction and under-culling (or culling in an uncontrolled pattern) can actually cause population size to overcompensate, or cause animals to disperse to a wider range, thereby making the problem worse. As an ecologist, the way most governments try to handle pest and disease problems is just insane to me.
On the note of wild canid behaviour...I remember seeing on a documentary about a study where they hand-reared wolf cubs to compare with dogs (I think it was this group, there is a brief summary of their results here: http://familydogproject.elte.hu/wolf_dog.html). Needless to say they found more evidence of the vast differences between dogs and wolves.
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There are people with Dingos in the US- but those dingos are Carolina Dogs, or American Dingos. So they have nothing to do with the dingos in Australia. They aren't illegal to keep, although some communities may have restrictions (as they do against many dog types)
Actually this is not always the case I have know several people in CA with Dingos and they where the kind from Australia. And I was told the parents where imported and that there are quite a few breeders in the US. In fact a frequent guest where I work has his brothers pets Dingo, his brother passed and he was left the animal. He had to go through a long QT to come to the states.
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my best friend who was killed a couple of years back had a dingo. He was a rescue pup at 6 months old. our other mutual friend has him now. lol name is.. dingo XD he was def a challenge to raise and i helped a lot and was his go to dog sitter i practically lived with them anyway. These dogs are highly social and NEED pack members. whether its multiple humans or dogs. they do not do well in solitary and should not be left crated for long periods. they also needs lots and lots of excercise.
also word of caution they WILL eat and destroy anything if given the chance. i once witnessed the aftermath of him being left alone for 20 minutes in the living room and he ate through the dry wall of the house. literally. he also tore up flooring too. very loyal sweet dog though, is great with my friends baby as well. also be ready for extremely bizzarre and funny vocalizations. ALL THE TIME. XD
BUT the dog he got was a rescue from craigslist of all places from someone who bought the dog from australia and then couldnt handle it. they wanted it gone or it was going to be euthed. dingo is very lucky to have ended up where he is. sadly most of these animals will not have that good of an outcome. and i do NOT support anyone buying one of these animals due to the nature of how most are obtained. and in some US states it is illegal to own one.
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While I've noticed the issue of them being owned in the states has been resolved, I just wanted to make a few comments on some things.
I have known some people and also worked in a zoo that have had dingos, and their personalities are beautiful. They were so sweet natured. But just so everyone knows, they aren't an Australian wild dog, they're a wolf. They're latin name is Canus Lupus Dingo, which means they are a wold subspecies. So while the ones I know have had beautiful personalities, they have been conditioned like crazy to be that way. When I worked at the zoo, we had to hand feed them so they would know humans gave them food, don't hurt the humans. But in some states of Australia you can buy and own them if they come from breeders.
They are super threatened and some types are even endangered, because as mentioned above farmers kill them on site. But recent studies show that that level of predator is extremely important to the environment, and in Australia Dingoes are the only ones of that level. They also keep the invasive fox and cats under control. Lots of farms these days (though not enough) have found that if you leave the kangaroo populations alone, you shouldn't need to shoot dingoes either. So there is a big push to have an education program for farmers about that.
Finally, I just want to say to all of you, please don't buy Australian native species as pets. I know in the US there are actual breeders, and maybe that's ok. But the fact you can own some species like Sugar Gliders as pets here when you can't even own them in Australia is alarming. Budgies sure, they're super common and easier breeders so no one is catching them from the wild any more. But anything else, sugar gliders, cockatoos, rosellas, are all being caught and smuggled out of Australia like crazy. It's one of the biggest things smuggled. And even buying from reputable breeders is encouraging that trade.
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When I lived in Alaska, there was a lady who had a new guinea singing dog. She would bring it to the dog park but would chase it away from the fence and trees because apparently they can climb them.
I had dog that was part wolf. It was like living with a 10 year old child.
They can scale a tree like a monkey!
I had a Rough Collie/Grey Wolf mix when I was a kid. He was a terror. Very territorial and food aggressive. He was kept as a garden guard, fenced off away from our other dogs. He mellowed out when he got older though and became a nice "pet."
Hybrids aren't for everyone, that's for sure.