The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: SeashellnBubbles on January 11, 2014, 11:04:36 AM
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Actually, less than 1 week and he lives in Brazil! I'm posting from canada! The auction ended on January 2nd and he's already filed and escalated the case with PayPal! Am i stuck? This guy is going to get his money back PLUS the doll unless I can do something! Will PayPal see this guy as being irrational?
*update* PayPal has resolved the problem in a most unexpected way! They wrote today that upon reviewing my PaPal history with other transactions, they have decided in favour of the buyer HOWEVER, given my history and the "unique" circumstances of the case they refunded him themselves and did not debit my account! So how about that? I guess they actually agreed with me that his expectation of delivery in 4 days to be unrealistic, but had to side with him anyway. Best possible outcome and lesson learned! No more shipping w/o tracking...unless it's to you guys! Lol!
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Well, one thing to remember is that if he was just trying to contact you and chose 'item not received yet' or whatever, Ebay would open a case for him. Maybe he didn't mean to? Did he talk to you at all?
Edit: Or wait, maybe it wouldn't open it for him because it's so soon. I'm not sure now!
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Has he contacted you at all?!
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He contacted me earlier this week and asked if it had been shipped yet. It had been marked as shipped in eBay, and I wrote him that, yes, it had been posted on the 6th. This case he just opened today...he opened the case and then 15 minutes later he escalated it! I didn't see the messages until a few hours later, and now PayPal gives me only 3 options: 1. Provide proof of tracking (dude paid $11 for shipping...there is no tracking!) 2. Refund his money or 3. Provide proof i've refunded his money! I called PayPal but they said that since I don't have a tracking # there's not much they can do even though it wouldn't be there yet if it had been tracked! *sigh* I want to get on a plane to brazil and just kick this guy! He has good feedback and everything, and i'd given him A+ Feedback already, so that's done, too. I feel like an idiot. Now he's going to get both the money AND the doll and i just have to take it.
Name is papagaio-2013 if y'all want to know.
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Ughhhhhh wtf is wrong with people. I'm sorry this happened to you. :( I never sold on Ebay but my mom has and she's had some terrible buyers like that, good feedback and all. Are you going to message him at all?
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Definitely shoot him a message... or just shoot him... :P
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I've sent hom two messages...the first explaining that yes, the package has been sent but delivery takes between 6-8 weeks. I also asked him to please de-escalate the claim and that as far as PayPal was considered he'd have 45 days to file a "item not received" case and to please wait till closer to that time. If the doll (Monster High Gloom Beach Jackson...damn he was pretty) hadn't been delivered by then, then I would work something out with him.
After i spoke with the rep at PayPal I sent him another message explaining that i had spoken with them, and that the $11 shipping doesn't include a tracking number...that it would be more like $45 if it had, and that I wanted to save my customers having to pay such high prices.
I really don't know what else to do in this situation. Maybe you're right and eBay just escalated it or he did by accident...he hasn't been on eBay long from what i've seen and we all know what clicking the wrong button can do, so hopefully that's what's going on. I hate to think I've been scammed...it just makes me more and more not want to sell anything on eBay. I even warn people when i'm talking to them about selling that if i knew back then what i know now i'd have never started in the first place -_-
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Hugs Seashell! Obviously this dumb *** doesn't realize that it is going to take far longer than one week to get the item he paid for. It takes at least 2 weeks if not 3 just to receive something from Canada to the USA. If the buyer was smart he would have looked at the estimated arrival time for the item instead of jumping so fast. I am also surprised that Ebay would allow the case to be escalated or to be opened at all for that matter when the estimated arrival date has not been reached or passed yet. I feel for you hun.
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The dispute is through PayPal, so...i dunno. I guess i'll just have to wait and see.
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Unbelievable, I know that it's been escalated to paypal, but have you tried contacting ebay to see if you have any seller protection options? I know the item was sent without tracking, but like you said, even if you had gotten tracking, it still wouldn't have been received yet, so clearly he's being totally unreasonable.
I would try calling paypal back and asking to speak with a supervisor or manager. I know that without tracking, there isn't much you can do, chances are paypal will side with him, because we all know how that works. Chances are it will be 4-6 weeks before he receives the item, because it sounds like it went surface mail, which is slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through
peanut butter.
Sorry you're going through this Seashell :hug:
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I'm sorry to hear that you are having problems. No matter what, always ship with tracking though - because if it's delivered and the buyer still needs a refund, Paypal won't take it from your account; Paypal will cover it - that's why you pay fees and such to them. Since there is no tracking, Paypal has no guarantees that you shipped, therefore they will have you refund the buyer. With countries with unreliable postal service, even with tracking, Paypal will usually refund the buyer. :(
There's just no winning for a seller in this situation. You're likely to be out the item and the money. Was the savings of no tracking justifiable to losing the money and the pony? :( If so, it might have been easier to just throw the pony in a dumpster and not sell it at all, sadly. Even if the buyer does not pay for the service, you still need to protect yourself as the seller and buy tracking.
Also, I'd advise against leaving FB until the transaction is concluded - pony in buyer's hands, feedback has been left for you, etc. I know you said that you already did in this case, but it's not a good idea as you are not able to leave honest feedback. In this case, you could have mentioned, " Very impatient; refused track/insur; filed claim within 7 days of item shipping."
I can say that there are a number of buyers who will file claims simply because they see the seller did not include tracking! Protect yourself! :(
*pony hugs* Thanks for warning us about this buyer though!
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I really wish more countries would offer sensibly priced tracking, it would solve most of these problems (we have the same here. Regular international mail is £3.60. Fully tracked is nearly £50) =/ It's such a pain that some countries can offer tracking for a few pounds or dollars and others want a ridiculous fee for the same thing.
I'm so sorry that your buyer is being so unreasonable, and I hope that if you are forced to refund them that they send you the money again when the pony arrives :hug:
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He wrote back in portuguese "Ok I wait"...I don't know what this means since the case is still the same against me. I used Google Translate to send him a thank you back...hopefully he'll see how hard I'm trying to make things right...even going so far as to communicate in his native language!
I think it's a lost cause, though. Right now, to be honest I'm NOT refunding his money and it can stay in limbo with Paypal forever if need be. At least I have that, since he can't use the money either.
I. Done dealing with other countries as far as eBay goes. I'll just be selling within Canada from now on. I've been bit in the ass too many times by these buyers. That was the first time i'd ever left feedback prior to the package being delivered as well. I was doing it for a bunch of them and kinda did his by accident. I was like...oh, well, it's not like i can leave a negative anyway!
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Maybe someone here could help you talk to him in his language better?
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I really wish more countries would offer sensibly priced tracking, it would solve most of these problems (we have the same here. Regular international mail is £3.60. Fully tracked is nearly £50) =/ It's such a pain that some countries can offer tracking for a few pounds or dollars and others want a ridiculous fee for the same thing.
I'm so sorry that your buyer is being so unreasonable, and I hope that if you are forced to refund them that they send you the money again when the pony arrives :hug:
This!!! This is such a frustration for me and is the reason I am genuinely considering no longer shipping international outside of the EU on ebay sales. Buyers [understandably] will not pay the price I need to charge in order to send something from the UK tracked. The price hike is absolutely ridiculous and with the Royal Mail privatised its not going to get any better any time soon. :(
However all that being said, the crappy news on this is that paypal and ebay are going to demand proof of delivery/tracking or they will side with the buyer :( Its not great and you are right if you give many buyers the option they will take the cheaper shipping option. But for your own sake, when selling to someone you do not know, unfortunately charging them the price for tracking [no matter how expensive] is pretty much the only option now a days.
As it's too late for this unfortunately, I am thinking in this case you are going to almost have to hope it turns up with your buyer in that 45 day window. If your buyer closes the case now, he will not be able to reopen it. That is going to make him reluctant to close the case - he will need to leave it open [just in case it genuinely did not turn up with him]. In the meantime there is no harm in trying to continue to browbeat ebay - I dont think you will necessarily get somewhere but its always worth a shot?
I would also stalk your buyer a little, keep in touch with him to make sure he lets you know as soon as that doll arrives in order that he can close the case immediately.
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It says that PayPal may take up to 30 days to figure out this mess. It makes me happy that at least he can't use the money either while the case is open...a small victory if i look at it like that, and I try to look at the positive side as much as possible.
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I really wish more countries would offer sensibly priced tracking, it would solve most of these problems (we have the same here. Regular international mail is £3.60. Fully tracked is nearly £50) =/ It's such a pain that some countries can offer tracking for a few pounds or dollars and others want a ridiculous fee for the same thing.
I'm so sorry that your buyer is being so unreasonable, and I hope that if you are forced to refund them that they send you the money again when the pony arrives :hug:
This!!! This is such a frustration for me and is the reason I am genuinely considering no longer shipping international outside of the EU on ebay sales. Buyers [understandably] will not pay the price I need to charge in order to send something from the UK tracked. The price hike is absolutely ridiculous and with the Royal Mail privatised its not going to get any better any time soon. :(
Yeah...I don't quite understand how they can justify it, to be honest =/ Considering all tracked mail is treated the same, why not have the same system as JapanPost or SingaporePost where the tracking is something like £4-5 extra on post of the postage fee :huh: The worst thing is...you can't even guarantee the tracking will even be updated (and the Royal Mail themselves knowingly update tracking for inbound packages incorrectly!). It's just an unpleasant situation all round :cry:
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I really wish more countries would offer sensibly priced tracking, it would solve most of these problems (we have the same here. Regular international mail is £3.60. Fully tracked is nearly £50) =/ It's such a pain that some countries can offer tracking for a few pounds or dollars and others want a ridiculous fee for the same thing.
I'm so sorry that your buyer is being so unreasonable, and I hope that if you are forced to refund them that they send you the money again when the pony arrives :hug:
This!!! This is such a frustration for me and is the reason I am genuinely considering no longer shipping international outside of the EU on ebay sales. Buyers [understandably] will not pay the price I need to charge in order to send something from the UK tracked. The price hike is absolutely ridiculous and with the Royal Mail privatised its not going to get any better any time soon. :(
Yeah...I don't quite understand how they can justify it, to be honest =/ Considering all tracked mail is treated the same, why not have the same system as JapanPost or SingaporePost where the tracking is something like £4-5 extra on post of the postage fee :huh: The worst thing is...you can't even guarantee the tracking will even be updated (and the Royal Mail themselves knowingly update tracking for inbound packages incorrectly!). It's just an unpleasant situation all round :cry:
As I understand it, there are multiple databases -each country has its own system, and many of them can't/won't share information or communicate with each other so it's very time consuming to enter tracking codes for all packages. :) And programmers and CFO's would ask if it's worth the financial risk to pour money into the venture... So until they figure it out, the customers get the short end of the stick. I mean, what other choices do we have? :(
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Even if the buyer does not pay for the service, you still need to protect yourself as the seller and buy tracking.
I don't think this is really practical for, well, anyone. I'm certainly not going to pay for priority or higher shipping out of pocket if my buyer hasn't paid for it. The difference is often $20-$30. If I sold an item for $10 and first class shipping was $10, and then ebay and paypal take fees, and then I upgrade to tracked shipping that the buyer didn't pay for, I would be basically be paying to give my item away.
I am all for only shipping with tracking from ebay - I do that. But I make my buyers pay for it. I'm sure as heck not going to eat the cost myself.
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Even if the buyer does not pay for the service, you still need to protect yourself as the seller and buy tracking.
I don't think this is really practical for, well, anyone. I'm certainly not going to pay for priority or higher shipping out of pocket if my buyer hasn't paid for it. The difference is often $20-$30. If I sold an item for $10 and first class shipping was $10, and then ebay and paypal take fees, and then I upgrade to tracked shipping that the buyer didn't pay for, I would be basically be paying to give my item away.
I am all for only shipping with tracking from ebay - I do that. But I make my buyers pay for it. I'm sure as heck not going to eat the cost myself.
True, true, I would rather cancel the transaction if the buyer is insistent on having NO tracking. :)
Ebay wants anyone selling on their system to be basically a small business. Businesses have to spend "out-of-pocket" expenses all the time. :( It's part of the cost of... well, doing business. That's why it's supposed to be built into your pricing.
If you sell 100 ponies at $5 each and they cost $20 to ship with tracking, then 75% of the price is going to shipping and you're not actually making $5 per pony. If you anticipate selling 100 ponies and knowing shipping is going to cost you $20 a parcel, then you have to raise your prices so that your profit margin is better than 25%. :) And that's counting a pony with no investment value sunk into it - free ponies are quite rare. :)
I could go on, but many of our brilliant sellers on the Arena pull it off successfully as a small business all the time! :) They had to figure out all this math to be successful.
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Well sure, but there's a difference between the occasional out of pocket costs (like buying shipping supplies, initial investment, and losses due to fees) and spending three times as much to ship an item than you charged the buyer for. I'm not talking about the profit margin of an item, I'm just talking about not spending large amounts of your own money to ship something. If it costs $35 to ship an item with tracking then I charge my buyer $35. I'm not going to charge them $10 and pay the rest myself. 80c for delivery confirmation within the US, sure, but not an extra $25 to upgrade to priority international.
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Yikes- agree with what others have said- he can't close the case and reopen it, but if he hasn't escalated it maybe he is doing what he said and is waiting.
Also he can't spend the money yet- because he doesn't have it. What has happened is that Paypal or ebay (depending on who he filed a claim through) froze the amount of the sale pending resolution. It will either be released back to you if he doesn't escalate after a certain period of time (or "resolves" it), or he will get it if he does escalate. I am surprised that he was able to open a claim so quickly because usually
Unfortunately- you are completely unprotected if you don't have proof of shipping. Honestly I would caution you from shipping to Brazil (or having things shipped to you) first class, because unregistered mail is so unreliable in Brazil (actually, the same goes for Argentina, Mexico and Ecuador in my experience). ESPECIALLY if the address is rural. I've actually SEEN the regular (unregistered) mail and packages seriously stacked up in the middle of the "post office" having just come off a motorized canoe...
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Unfortunately, Galactica, he escalated it 15 minutes after opening the case, so I had no chance to talk with him to come to a mutual settlement. The guy is a thief, straight up, and PayPal is allowing it. I'm going to the post office today to see if there's anything they can do...the PayPal lady I spoke to was very kind and sympathetic, and she admitted that people do this all the time.
I'm just not going to sell to anyone outside of Canada and possibly the States on eBay from now on. It's been nothing but a hassle and i've been bit in the butt more times than not! I'm actually fearful to sell my India Butterscotch on eBay in case this very thing happens again. Losing $38 is one thing, but losing the pony and hundreds is quite another!
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OH that's terrible- I didn't know you could even escalate a case that quickly! Maybe because he went through paypal instead of ebay. Ebay usually makes the buyer wait until the estimated shipping period has passed- and also a certain number of days to try and resolve a case. If he opened a case and then escalated so quickly- I can only imagine he is dishonest and was planning to do this from the start. He couldn't really have expected to get a first class package to Brazil in 5 days?
For the future- you don't necessarily have to stop all international ebay sales= just set up your auction so that the only possible shipping for international- is priority. That way you at least have indemnity in case something goes wrong :P
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Thanks, Galactica, for the advice. I've done the tracked package thing to other countries and it STILL took forever to get there...the latest one was to Italy (I know, their post is attrocious anyway) I sent it at the very beginning of December and it didn't arrive until just this past Friday! Luckily the buyer was understanding, but I was told his package would arrive before Christmas and it didn't. What's the point of paying priority if it still takes forever to get there?
I did write a note to PayPal telling them what i've done as far as writing him and trying to communicate, but his last message was written in Portuguese and all it said, when I translated it, was "Ok I look" I have no idea what that means! I even went so far as to have my next message to him translated innto portuguese so it would be easier for him. Hopefully they look at it and realize he's a scammer, plain and simple, but I think they'll have no choice but to side wth him since I have no definative proof of shipping.
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For the future- you don't necessarily have to stop all international ebay sales= just set up your auction so that the only possible shipping for international- is priority. That way you at least have indemnity in case something goes wrong :P
That's how I roll! If they want it badly enough they'll pay for the more expensive shipping.
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I have been noticing a trend that buyers are expecting packages to arrive within unreasonable timeframes. I had someone message me after four days (not even four business days) as to why they hadn't received an item yet. If you buy something on a Saturday evening, I can't mail it until MONDAY so a few days have already passed. 0.o
Hope things work out for you! I do everything in my power to get tracking, nowadays.
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I just spoke with PayPal and they said that they will hold the money for 6-8 weeks until he either says he received the doll or that time is up, so i'm happy about that. At least he won't have access to that money and that's probably as close to a win as I'm going to get :/
I wish I could remove the positive feedback I left him...I don't think eBay will allow that since they'd probably see it as retaliatory. I mean, he's completely within his right to file the claim, but as I said, i think he's using the system because he has buyers remorse. Or he's a scammer. Maybe he's mixing up his purchase from me with one that he's been waiting a long time for? The language barrier isn't a problem thanks to Google translate, so there's really no reason for him not to be communicating with me.
Can i report him to eBay for questionable actions?