The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Off Topic => The Dollhouse => Topic started by: lolaandbean on December 05, 2012, 08:17:43 AM
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I had an interesting conversation with a friend about who was worse. Scalpers or Collectors. She says collectors. Her argument is that scalpers are probably just selling them to make money so they can buy their kids Christmas presents. Collectors can always get them after the holidays.
I think there might be a few scalpers out there that need the money. I think the majority is in it to make a dollar (or a couple of hundred.) I'd rather see them in the hands of a collector instead of a scalper.
I'm pretty sure 99% of the people here think scalpers are worse, but what do you think of her argument?
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I say scalpers. What gives them the right to take every doll off the shelf. Parents wouldn't have to buy from a scalper then. At least as collectors we don't take every doll off the shelf and keep them for ourselves. We don't need 5-6 of the same doll. But a scalper buys all the new dolls and puts them on ebay and other places.
I understand wanting to make a little extra money but these people get 4 to 5 times what the item is worth sometimes. It kinda gives me a little sick feeling when I hear stories about people like that.
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Scalpers. No doubt. I collect, but there's a difference, and it's what SP said.
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Scalpers, because they don't leave any. And sometimes collectors, because if you buy all the dolls just to have some to trade on here or whatever, you still bought *all* the dolls, whether or not you're just getting sticker price for them. If its the last one, fair game, but I'd never buy every single doll on the shelf for any reason.
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I don't believe for one minute they're doing it to make money to buy their kids presents. Because if that were the case, then there wouldn't be scalpers any other time of the year. Scalpers are doing it because they're greedy and trying to make an easy buck. Plus, collectors don't take multiples of the same doll so no one else can get one where scalpers take all the dolls on the shelf and will even steal them out of your cart if you're not watching carefully enough. So scalpers are most definitely worse.
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Scalpers take advantage of others, collectors genuinely like what they collect imo.
I think the worst ones are the shortpacking toy companies, but they're just in doing so.
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I get that scalpers are hated here, but why? Is it the fact that they get tons of money for the dolls or that they take every single doll on the shelf? If it's the latter I don't see a difference between them and some of us here, buying tons of dolls for each other. Or the collectors that buy several of each doll, one to keep MIB, one to keep loose.Sure, we don't buy shopping carts full, but I've seen huge hauls of dolls here.
If it's the former, it might not be their fault. Yes, a lot of them have outrageous BINs on the dolls. You have the option of buying from them or not. When I sell dolls I start them at cost. If people choose to bid ridiculous amounts, that's not my fault.
Also, when the dolls are in store they are for anyone to buy. It might be bad timing, lack of money, or some other reason making it impossible for you to buy them. It doesn't change the fact that they WERE in the store, you could have bought them.
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I don't believe for one minute they're doing it to make money to buy their kids presents. Because if that were the case, then there wouldn't be scalpers any other time of the year. Scalpers are doing it because they're greedy and trying to make an easy buck.
What's to say they don't need money other times of the year, too? For some people re-selling is the way they make their living. Some scalpers may operate out of pure greed, but some operate out of necessity. You do not know people's situations, so it's unfair to judge all "scalpers" the same way.
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How is this even an arguement? Where a collector takes maybe one doll per character for their own personal enjoyment, a scalper clears the shelves and commands a monopoly over the dolls for everyone.
What the stores don't seem to realize is that scalping may, indeed, hurt their profit margins. Customers only have a limited amount of income; whether someone clears out their inventory to resell or not, popular hot-ticket items are going to sell out regardless. But if someone buys a doll for $70 from a scalper, that's an extra $40 or so they AREN'T using to purchase other things from the store (other toys, candy, stocking stuffers, etc).
So, in the end, Little Suzey only gets one Toralei for Christmas, instead of her AND a Lalaloopsy AND a Hershey bar AND a Monopoly board game. :T
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I just don't like the fact that they buy everything in the store, leaving others in the area to either pay the huge costs to buy from a scalper, or to not get the doll. I wish stores would limit sales to only two or so per doll. Ideally, I'd love to be able to buy all my dolls for retail price from the store, but they're always sold out. And while I can usually find someone here to pick up the dolls I'm looking for for retail, I'm still having to pay shipping, which still adds up and cuts into my budget. Or I can sometimes go to the Walmart that's farther away and kind of in the middle of nowhere to get stuff, but it costs more in gas and still hurts my budget. It seems to happen with MLP in my area as well, so I'm getting kind of fed up with it. So, yeah, that's my biggest problem with scalpers.
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I just don't like the fact that they buy everything in the store, leaving others in the area to either pay the huge costs to buy from a scalper, or to not get the doll. I wish stores would limit sales to only two or so per doll. Ideally, I'd love to be able to buy all my dolls for retail price from the store, but they're always sold out. And while I can usually find someone here to pick up the dolls I'm looking for for retail, I'm still having to pay shipping, which still adds up and cuts into my budget. Or I can sometimes go to the Walmart that's farther away and kind of in the middle of nowhere to get stuff, but it costs more in gas and still hurts my budget. It seems to happen with MLP in my area as well, so I'm getting kind of fed up with it. So, yeah, that's my biggest problem with scalpers.
This!
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Also remebmer that it is both parents and collectors who make it profitable for people to resell these dolls - if no one bid on them or paid the high prices, there would be so reason for the kind of people who fill shopping carts full to do what they do. I think way more factors go into this than people bother to take the time to think about. It's all torches and pitchforks and BURN THE WITCH when it comes to "scalpers", but this is just an example of a free economy at work. Supply and demand, economic need, blah blah blah.
I've never paid over market value for a doll and still manage to have every doll I want in my collection. It takes time and patience sometimes, but the "scalpers" haven't made it impossible for me to collect the dolls I want.
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You guys are all making really good arguments :) I really don't know what I think now. All I know is that I want all the dolls I want and I think little Susie should get all the dollies she wants. Sometimes I buy all the dolls the store has because sometimes they only have one XD Maybe our real complaint is that Mattel should just release MORE dolls? FLood the market a bit to keep costs down? I think NoD is right, things are worth what people will pay for them. If we stopped buying Gil for more than $25, they'd stop selling him for more than $25.
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Yeah, I don't pay more than retail for my dolls, either. Of course, it helps that I don't have an eBay account and stay off the site, so there's no temptation to buy from scalpers. I've seen a few people sell on here for scalper-ish prices, but I won't even think about buying them. I just see the price and move on. I've had pretty good luck finding most of the dolls I'm looking for. I'm mostly just waiting for PD and Scaris dolls to show up at Walmart because then I can put them on my mom's credit card and pay her monthly until they're paid off and spread out the payments.
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All I know is, I don't buy current dolls from ebay. I just wait. I understand parents needing to buy from ebay though, which really sucks, and is why I personally think scalpers are the "worse" of the two. Especially since collectors are so finicky and buy "the perfect one" instead of a cart full of Scaris dolls.
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I'm gonna go on a limb and say it's pretty even. Scalpers Buy more than they need, collectors Pay more than they need. If everyone wasn't so desperate to get said dolls right away and pay the crazy asking prices, scalpers wouldn't have a market. But if scalpers didn't buy up everything, then collectors wouldn't need to pay crazy prices. So think the finger points in both directions on this one.
Just my 2cents
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Of course, I loathe the scalpers - I even have the 'No Scalping' sticker on my blog - but, as it's been pointed out, if the fans and their cash weren't so abundant, the scalpers wouldn't exist. I know we all want the latest as soon as it hits retail, but most of the time, a bit of patience means the difference between paying $20. and paying $60. Often, it's as little as a day. What's rare and 'HTF' one month is often a shelf-sitter the next.
Thing is, this isn't just scalper vs. fan/collector. That whole 'wait' advice ain't worth crap if the manufacturer short-packs and doesn't distribute near enough to meet demand. I've been lucky and pounced on the one Gil I ever saw, but I never saw any of the second wave of 'Dawn of the Dance' dolls. Never, not one. I've seen all of one Signature Spectra, and it had a 'Hold' tag on it for another customer. Clearly, Mattel would have sold far more dolls if they'd made enough. I'm not sure why they haven't clued in that the male MH dolls aren't like Ken - many more fans *want* Deuce, Jackson, Clawd, and Holt, and any others (hint - Slo-Moe, Heath !)- but Mattel persists on short-packing and replacing them mid-shipment with more of the Mane Six (grin). It makes fans fear every doll will be like that - grab it now, or pay ridiculous prices later - which just furthers the current scalper/collector wars.
In a way, MH is a victim of its own success, but sometimes, it's great to have financial limits. It makes overpaying not even close to an option !
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I agree with Dorriebelle and others in that it's the companies who are to blame eventually. They don't produce enough to meet demand. And they don't distribute well enough. Scalpers would not stand a chance if there were always dolls to be found in the store and collectors would not 'take away dolls from children' (which I find a silly argument to begin with, but maybe that's just me..).
It's not just Mattel, tho.. ohoho by far not. Few days ago the Nintendo WiiU launched in Europe and they did not even produce enough to meet PREORDERS! Come on.. not delivering enough for preorders made like 3-4 months ago? Needless to say there was WAR over those consoles in every store that sold them.
So a lot of them companies do it and I never got why.. to create more desire for the product? To make people jump at it the moment they see it? ..but in the long run, all it creates is frustration and upset on the customer's side. If there were more than enough of one product, it might take longer to sell, and some might even have to be reduced (no problem imo since the cost to produce most things and the amount they sell for differs GREATLY.. even when reduced by 50% they'd still make a profit).. but I still think it would create more profit and a better, more satisfied market in the long run.
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It's kind of a kettle calling the pot black thing..
Because... honestly, say Walmart was having a huge clearence blow out of Monster High's after Christmas... and they were RIDICULOUSLY cheap... and we all KNEW they weren't going to release the dolls again.. umm.. heck yeah I'd buy them up. And I know a lot of other people would too. We'd buy them, and sell them for either their original price or more for funds for other dolls/things we want. There's nothing wrong with people making a profit because an item is hot. Actually, it's pretty brilliant that places like Ebay make it possible for them to do so.
Do I like that they do it? No... sometimes I can't find what I want and have to consider paying a ridiculously high price. Which I don't... lol. I just go on to another doll to like and hope that one pops up for cheap. But I can't go and judge someone for doing something to make a living. Whether it's for sick children in hospitals or for them to just have nice things in their life... it's their RIGHT to sell what they want. If I had the money, I'd rather invest in selling dolls than anything else. Of course I wouldn't be selling them for RIDICULOUS prices. Just enough to cover shipping fees and selling fees as well as profit.
As for collectors... we're doing the same thing. Every doll that we own is a doll that isn't in the hands of a child. Come on people.. we're no better. At least the scalpers are selling their dolls. We're keeping them locked up and taking pretty photo's of them. :P
But no matter... trust me.. if a kid really wants a Monster High doll.. they're STILL are some in stores. There always will be as long as they are made. They mass produce them. Just like everything else.. if little Suzie wants that really hard to find Toralie, her mommy is just going to have to do what every other mommy has to do when there's a hot hard to find toy.. pay the price. Or make a custom :P
That's my opinion on the matter. :)
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I actually think that the people who buy from the scalpers (some of whom are undoubtedly collectors) are the worst. The scalpers wouldn't have a leg to stand on if no one was actually willing to pay their outrageously inflated prices. The people who pay those prices are just fueling the scalping industry. It's all one big blob of greed - on the one side, you've got the sellers trying to make a big profit and on the other side you've got buyers so desperate to have a toy that they'll shell out many times what it's actually worth in order to get it.
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I think a lot of valid points have been made. It's really a supply and demand issue that extends way beyond MH. I don't "villanize" any group, *shrug* they have their reasons. Collectors are great because in my mind they preserve the "history" of a thing (pictures and information). Children are great because they enjoy the toys that were created for them. (Admittedly, most of us seem to do that too!) Scalpers are great because they take HTF items and at least make it possible to get! Yes, you will pay a ridiculous price at times (because you choose to) but because of them, you can go to eBay, plunk down the cash, and snag that really HTF doll your heart longs for. Especially with Mattel's spotty distribution there is no guarantee the doll would even be available where you live. And if they priced the item at retail it would be gone in a flash.
So that's my hopefully positive spin on a tricky situation. At the end of the day, it's all about people wanting things that other people/stores have.
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The argument of it's the toy companies fault too is a good one. I just don't understand it. Why short? Obvioulsy they'd sell more dolls if they made more dolls. If people are willing to pay crazy amounts of money for a toy on Ebay it's less money they make. Plus all the people who can't afford or won't pay scalper prices. My friend is looking for a toy. She can't afford scalper prices. If they were avaliable in the store that's $35 more in the toy company's pocket. Instead of an extra $100ish in a scalpers pocket.
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We'd buy them, and sell them for either their original price or more for funds for other dolls/things we want.
This ^^
I recently sold a Jinafire and a Skelita. I started them at cost plus shipping and they ended up selling for ridiculous amounts. That money paid for the entire Scaris line for my own kid for Christmas. Plus, I sold them overseas, so it also enabled some kid there to get the 2 new characters for Christmas even though they haven't been released there. I see it as a win-win, even though the parent paid some crazy amount for them, but that's not my fault.
Then I picked up 3 Skelitas and sold at cost to fellow arena members :)
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If people are willing to pay crazy amounts of money for a toy on Ebay it's less money they make ... If they were avaliable in the store that's $35 more in the toy company's pocket. Instead of an extra $100ish in a scalpers pocket.
I've never really understood this argument. The toy companies don't get paid each time we buy one of their products from a store. The store buys a whole bulk load of product from the company, so when we go to buy something from the store, the company that made it has already been paid for it. This is a big reason why Mattel et al don't care who buys their stuff - whether it's a parent, a collector or a scalper doesn't matter to them because the store already paid them for it.
It's entirely possible that they aren't just making more because the toy stores aren't wanting to buy more. It's also possible that the store buyers are asking for fewer boy dolls. That was the theory as to why Princess Celestia ended up pink in toy form - the store buyers said they'd buy more units if the toy was pink rather than white.
So while I agree that distribution and availability could be a lot better, I'm not sure how much of that should be laid at Mattel's feet. It could be more of an issue to do with the big stores that carry the dolls not ordering enough or whatever.
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I slightly understand the scalper thing. But I agree. If you're REALLY trying to make money for good reasons you wouldn't clear out the store. You wouldn't clear out the stock. I wouldn't judge so hard if maybe they grabbed a few and then did it. But these guys clear out the stock and then screw it up for other parents out there. DX
Besides...I have a feeling that if they had the money to buy all these dolls to sell, they'd have the money to buy their children toys instead. Instead of gambling to see if people would actually buy their stock or not.
Collectors are better by far. I can see the argument against them a bit. Because we're taking toys away from children...but I say FOO to that. Because I donate toys.
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Honestly? I think people have let the line between their own wants, and business blur here. If you are running a business, you don't concern yourself with the complaints of the population who isn't purchasing your products or services, when you have a clientel who constantly IS happy to pay your prices, even if they are inflated. The whole point of most businesses is to make money, and provide for your family, and if someone is reselling toys and making their living on ebay, then of course this is going to be what they do. Why? Because people will pay the prices without blinking. If people didn't pay the inflated prices then they would move on to something else to sell, but we do, so they don't. It's easy money. Who can blame them for that? I myself often buy rare dolls for resell purposes, as customs and reselling are half my income right now. I start the doll auctions at fifteen to twenty above what I paid [as I drive a hundred miles round trip and take most a day to get them], and put a buy it now on them of about thirty or forty more than their original price. That allows people to bid on them for a fair price, or if they want to pay the inflated price, more power to them. It means my bills get paid quicker. I guess that sounds callous, but I feel like we forget that to people that aren't collectors, it's just another item to sell to provide for themselves. Wanting money isn't greedy, no one would be saying that if it were a different form of business that they were making all this money from would they? For god sake so many of us struggle to barely get by in this country today, how could we call anyone greedy for actually making money? Sure, it bums me out when I have to wait for months on end to get a doll I want. But I don't buy it on ebay. I wait until I can find it elsewhere. It sucks, some times, but I don't blame them. I'm actually a little envious some times, that they have the funds to purchase that many dolls in the first place, when I couldn't even if I wanted to. Lol. I don't know. I honestly don't think that a limit on the dolls per purchase would be a terribly idea....Unless you are a collector who finds like seven dolls you want at once and can't get them all because of that limit, then I think people would be unhappy again. Besides that, you can't limit one item of sale, and allow people to purchase as many as they want of other items. It just isn't right. If you have the money, you should be able to purchase whatever you want. That includes scalpers, not just us. What you do with it after you purchase it, well...That's up to the individual too, you know?
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How is this even an arguement? Where a collector takes maybe one doll per character for their own personal enjoyment, a scalper clears the shelves and commands a monopoly over the dolls for everyone.
What the stores don't seem to realize is that scalping may, indeed, hurt their profit margins. Customers only have a limited amount of income; whether someone clears out their inventory to resell or not, popular hot-ticket items are going to sell out regardless. But if someone buys a doll for $70 from a scalper, that's an extra $40 or so they AREN'T using to purchase other things from the store (other toys, candy, stocking stuffers, etc).
So, in the end, Little Suzey only gets one Toralei for Christmas, instead of her AND a Lalaloopsy AND a Hershey bar AND a Monopoly board game. :T
I think you have a really good point there.
What's more, a lot of stores already puts a limit to the number of items you can buy during certain promotions, be they toasters or bags of chips. Why not limit very hot toys to 2 of each? :huh: It's not like there are scalpers for chips, so the stores do it to keep customers happy... how about keeping parents from a lot panic and distress during holiday shopping? (yeah I know it wouldn't magically solve the problem but it couldn't hurt either)
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Ok, so, what's the definition of "collector" here? Because I open and play with my dolls as much as any child would, and resent the implication that I'm somehow a bad person for buying something I legitimately enjoy instead of saving it for the kids. :P
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The bottom line, scalpers clear the shelves of the hot items. Leaving a bunch of clawdeens so that the store does not re-stock. So it makes it incredibly frustrating to find the dolls I keep going out to look for. If people weren't so frustrated, scalpers wouldn't be such a big deal. I think when people scalp too long they get sort of warped, too (like some of those pony flippers LOL). Or like how the paparazzi will do anything crazy rude just for a buck.
Why they need the money behind it is a moot point. It is benefiting themselves at the expense of others. Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids.
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Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids.
What obligation does this guy have towards other people's kids? The dolls are there for anyone to buy. If he's taking the time to wait in line like everyone else, it's his right to buy whatever he wants. What he does with them is really none of anyone's business.
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Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids.
What obligation does this guy have towards other people's kids? The dolls are there for anyone to buy. If he's taking the time to wait in line like everyone else, it's his right to buy whatever he wants. What he does with them is really none of anyone's business.
I agree with this. Does it bum me out when I can't find a doll I want? Sure. But I am not entitled to that doll, and nor is anyone else. A child is not more entitled to a doll than an adult collector, a collector is not more entitled than someone who wants to resell the doll. These items are on the shelf available for anyone to buy as many as they want. Whoever gets there first and has the money gets to buy the doll. If someone wants to buy every doll in the store, that is their right just as much as it would be mine to buy just one.
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Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids.
What obligation does this guy have towards other people's kids? The dolls are there for anyone to buy. If he's taking the time to wait in line like everyone else, it's his right to buy whatever he wants. What he does with them is really none of anyone's business.
I agree with this. Does it bum me out when I can't find a doll I want? Sure. But I am not entitled to that doll, and nor is anyone else. A child is not more entitled to a doll than an adult collector, a collector is not more entitled than someone who wants to resell the doll. These items are on the shelf available for anyone to buy as many as they want. Whoever gets there first and has the money gets to buy the doll. If someone wants to buy every doll in the store, that is their right just as much as it would be mine to buy just one.
Truuuuuue.
But it doesn't make it less mean. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean it's a nice thing to do y'know? Heh. But you honestly can't control other's so *shrugs*
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I have bought dolls for people on the board but if it is the only one left even if someone needs it I'll leave it.
Just because this man waited in line doesn't give him the right to take 20 or each doll. Its wrong and just plain rude when your there looking for the same item and this guy walks off with two buggy loads. People just don't care anymore. Especially with the holidays coming up people get more and more greedy.
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Just because this man waited in line doesn't give him the right to take 20 or each doll. Its wrong and just plain rude when your there looking for the same item and this guy walks off with two buggy loads.
Rude? Maybe. Wrong? Nope. He has the right to buy whatever he wants and has the money to pay for.
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Just because this man waited in line doesn't give him the right to take 20 or each doll. Its wrong and just plain rude when your there looking for the same item and this guy walks off with two buggy loads.
Rude? Maybe. Wrong? Nope. He has the right to buy whatever he wants and has the money to pay for.
It is wrong weather you think so or not. Maybe my thinking of wrong and yours are not the same.
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I have nothing personal against re-sellers, we all make a living- but it does seriously bum me out when I get to the store and the entire shelf has been cleaned out in one swoop.
I do really wish that people wouldn't do that...
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Life isn't always about being "nice" or being "mean." If reselling item is a business for someone then emotions do not play into it. It's not like these people are the grinch running around going "yessss I'm going to buy up all the toys so no children can have them!" (at least probably not... ya never know there might be some crazies.) I think people are projecting their own feelings onto someone else's actions. I see no "right" or "wrong" in these situations. If it were wrong for someone to be able to buy as much as they like, then there would be rules and laws preventing it. As there aren't, there is no "wrong" being done. It may upset some people's personal moral compasses, but one person's morals cannot define another person's actions.
This conversation could go in circles for days, so I won't add much more to it. But I get a bit weary of people constantly taking so much time to call out and complain about "scalpers." Just live your life and let other people live theirs. I think we can all think of more productive things to do than go on for pages about an issue that most people have very firmly made their mind up on already.
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I have nothing personal against re-sellers, we all make a living- but it does seriously bum me out when I get to the store and the entire shelf has been cleaned out in one swoop.
I have to agree with this.
Was I really bummed that I couldn't find the monster high werewolf sisters pack yes but that's how it goes. I know someone came in every time and bought them all out. I got lucky once and there was one left(or someone returned it). Eventually I found it. I don't have the funds to resort to buying from ebay. If I had the money to, I might.
I don't think you can look at scalpers and monsters that just want hoards of money. They could be in a situation where that's there only option for supporting themselves or there family. I doubt that's always the case but they have the money to wipe out the shelf and the time to sell them off then they get to.
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I personal don't buy that buying and reselling toys is scalpers only way to make a living. These people spend hundreds of dollars buying toys to resell. They could use that money they are buying toys with to take care of there families.
I'm not downing people that buy a doll and resell every once in awhile either. But people on here defend scalpers like this might be the only way they make money. I'll call BS on that story all day long.
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I personal don't buy that buying and reselling toys is scalpers only way to make a living. These people spend hundreds of dollars buying toys to resell. They could use that money they are buying toys with to take care of there families.
I'm not downing people that buy a doll and resell every once in awhile either. But people on here defend scalpers like this might be the only way they make money. I'll call BS on that story all day long.
I agree Swordpony, scalping isn't probably their only income. that's what i think anyway
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Well, I'm sorry that you can't imagine that it could be possible that someone has to make a living that way. I think it's incredibly unfair to "call BS" on something that is a way of life for some people. Just because you don't understand or can't imagine being in that situation doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
No, not all scalpers do it because they have to. Some probably do it just to make extra income and would be fine without it. But there are people who use buying and reselling items for profit as their livelyhood, especially in a tough economy like this, and I think it's rude and unfair to be so dismissive about it and assume everyone is just being greedy. Not everyone has the same life situation.
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Well, I'm sorry that you can't imagine that it could be possible that someone has to make a living that way. I think it's incredibly unfair to "call BS" on something that is a way of life for some people. Just because you don't understand or can't imagine being in that situation doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
No, not all scalpers do it because they have to. Some probably do it just to make extra income and would be fine without it. But there are people who use buying and reselling items for profit as their livelyhood, especially in a tough economy like this, and I think it's rude and unfair to be so dismissive about it and assume everyone is just being greedy. Not everyone has the same life situation.
If that's referring to me, I'm not dismissive. I'm opinionated, yes, but everyone has their views, and everyone is entitled to them. I would scalp if I was in dire need of the money, but as I'm not in dire need, I don't, I don't care what others do for money, that's their way, not mine, and I choose not to get my money in a way that occassionally involves ripping people out of money. I'm not saying anymore because, to be honest, I'm not fussed either way, not my problem, nor something I should be concerned about, but that's my piece of cake on the matter . I'd probably have too much of a conscience to scalp, I'd overthink of parenta wasting unnecessary money as they can't get them in stores.
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I have seen many people, even here on the Arena, sell dolls for more than they paid for them.
That being said, I am inserting a MOD WARNING: take this down a notch, as it is getting far too heated in here. Opinions have been expressed, and things are being repeated and escalated.
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Scalping toys is not a way of life.
But I'm gonna be done here before I say something I can't take back.
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When you stop and think about it.. Every major retailer is a scalper by the definition given here.. They buy up items in massive quantities, then turn around and resell the item for a marked up price.
It's just business.
It drives prices up, yeah.. But it's still just a business.
Wrong can be used to describe something that is morally questionable. Something that is incorrect. Something that goes against the rules. Something that is hurtful.
To say that scalping is wrong, is to use the word "wrong" in the sense that it hurts peoples feelings, and is morally questionable. That doesn't mean that they are doing something they should not BE doing.. It just means they are doing something we FEEL they should not be doing. In the end, it's feelings that get wronged, and that is something that we just have to live with.
When it comes to making money, if you are too soft, you won't make money and you go out of business. Thats what these folks are doing.
Now, if stores raised the prices on these dolls to what the scalpers were charging, I bet there would be a lot more stock on the shelves. The dolls are worth what people are willing to pay for them. The scalpers are capitalizing on the markup margin that the stores are ignoring.
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Business is business and most businesses squash people and competition. It's not nice, but then it's not nice when one doughnut chain forces another to go bankrupt, destroying the lives and dreams of many attached to that business as a result. But the one doughnut chain didn't do this out of spite, but for survival and to preserve the lives and dreams that depend on it. Yes people do make a living scalping/reselling. I know it's hard to imagine, but it's true. Toys, clothes, machine parts, all go to ebay and many people do depend on those sales. They do not do this to hurt parents or to frustrate you, but to make money. Simple, yes? Do they need that money? Case by case basis. Maybe yes. Maybe no. But it is wrong to cover them all in a blanket of evil. Yes that is wrong. You don't know why they do what they do. You can't.
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As much as I don't like when anyone (collector OR scalper) cleans out the shelf, I have to look at the bigger picture than just my hurt feelings.
Take a toy store.... um, TRU for example. TRU ordered and paid for a case of dolls. If someone doesn't buy the dolls, TRU doesn't make its sales goal for that toyline and they don't order it again. It doesn't matter to TRU whether it's a scalper, collector, over-excited parent, kid, whatever. If the dolls don't sell, eventually the Doll Company goes out of business. Now... obviously Mattel's not going to go under from piles of old RollerMaze stock. But they might end MH if the product sales were to drastically slow!
If one is a MH fan, and want more dolls to continue to be released, and want the line to last several years, one has to tolerate that scalpers will do their thing, and so will collectors. Lots of collectors buy extras and sell at a profit. Should we feel the same about them as scalpers for emptying shelves or does it somehow make it all better because the collector is emotionally enjoying the object? HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! Please don't answer and stress out the mods! :-p
I totally agree with pukunui - most of the "problem" is created by people who can't be patient. If you search for Monster High on ebay in say, five years, do you honestly, truly, really think Ebay will say, "No search results returned"? Probably not. But the fact remains that most people say, "I want it NOW NOW NOW NOW YESTERDAYYYYYY!" about mass-produced products and pay extremely overpriced scalpers to obtain the items sooner. There are millions of each MH doll produced. They are NOT going to disappear into thin air when the line ends, like some sort of wacky sci-fi quantum space incident.
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I am lucky enough to have a solution to this problem now- at least with respect to Target goods-
The City Target opened practically across the street from where I work. If I get there at 7:30 a.m. (they open at 7) - NO one has been at the toys yet- and I can check out the stock before it all gets swiped. It is not a terrible burden to check back on a regular basis, since it is on the way anyway. But I will never be there first for TRU or Walmart- they are far far far away....
It does seem that the stores (at least at first) just were not ordering enough MH or Ponies- the entire stock would be wiped in one day (probably by re-sellers, but also kids that wanted MH, and random collectors of all ages) - but very lately, there seems to be quite a lot of each - so maybe (at least Target) is getting the message and ordering more toys...
That said though- there are some toys I haven't been able to get who have not reappeared- Gil & FS AJ, for starters.
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The only time I really despise scalpers is like the guy on Black Friday who wiped out almost the entire pallet. That was rude and in my opinion hateful. Parents had waited in line just as long to get those for their kids. That was someone taking advantage of others.
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Definitely scalpers, I'm not even just saying that as a collector. I'm saying that as someone who works RETAIL and has SEEN the havoc they wreak in honestly? The name of greed. It's sad.
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wow, everyone has some really good points. I dont like scalpers personally. The difference being that most dolls i cant buy here in Australia. You guys are so lucky to have all the monster high range. Its quite difficult to collect dolls that aren't in your country. If it wasn't for some of the amazing Arena members here who will pick up dolls for retail and ask for nothing back. I wouldn't have half the collection i do. They are happy to just help out a fellow collector. Scaplers are just out for the money ( what ever the motive) and its unfair to see dolls so so cheap retail in USA stores. And then see the same dolls being sold for tripple the price. Im thankful for the Arena, other wise I too would have to buy from scalpers. How else would i get these dolls?
Eg. A lovely arena member sold me a Jinafire Long for retail. One of three she picked up to help out arena members. She made no money of them. Would you call her a scalper? even though she took three dolls? i think not.
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I have come to the conclusion that I will never have Gil, 1600 Clawd or DotD Lagoona unless Mattel rereleases them. The prices on ebay are more than I can afford for a single doll and it seems the only thing people are willing to trade for is the SDCC doll.
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Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids.
What obligation does this guy have towards other people's kids? The dolls are there for anyone to buy. If he's taking the time to wait in line like everyone else, it's his right to buy whatever he wants. What he does with them is really none of anyone's business.
I agree with this. Does it bum me out when I can't find a doll I want? Sure. But I am not entitled to that doll, and nor is anyone else. A child is not more entitled to a doll than an adult collector, a collector is not more entitled than someone who wants to resell the doll. These items are on the shelf available for anyone to buy as many as they want. Whoever gets there first and has the money gets to buy the doll. If someone wants to buy every doll in the store, that is their right just as much as it would be mine to buy just one.
uhm yeah I dont think anyone is disputing that point. And I wasn't saying there was any entitlement involved. You also need to review the previous posts to understand the gist of "buying for his own kids" and what I said in my same post that you quoted (that its a moot point). I think you totally missed the point.
For someone to think that what he did was all good...is beyond me to try to explain what a grinch is.
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In this economy finding a job isn't always easy and what the government gives isn't always enough to make ends meet. If someone doesn't have some kind of crafty talent then reselling is the only way to make money and at least better it be dolls on ebay than drugs or themselves on the street corners. That said I also feel it is the buyers that are responsible. If they wouldn't pay these crazy prices maybe I would be able to find a Gil or 1600 Clawd or DotD Lagoona for a reasonable price. If nobody was buying them they would have to lower their prices to move them.
I think a lot of parents use "Santa" as a way to get their kids to behave and then when they ask for a hard to find doll from "Santa" they feel obligated to get it or their kid might think that they weren't good enough or just stop believing and then they can't use it as a way to get them to behave.
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As someone mentioned above, the person buying 3 Jinafire's to sell to people here, even at cost if you saw her loading up a cart with 3 Jinafire's would you not be like "rawr..scalpers.." because you don't know these people, and you have no idea what they're doing with the dolls. That guy loading up his cart in the video could have been donating them all to charity for all we know. Probably not, but you never know! I know my issues with people buying up all the dolls are purely selfish. Anyone can buy them for any reason, however many they want, and that's completely fine, but I will grumble about it because I'm human, and I wants me them dolls!
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Business is business and most businesses squash people and competition. It's not nice, but then it's not nice when one doughnut chain forces another to go bankrupt, destroying the lives and dreams of many attached to that business as a result. But the one doughnut chain didn't do this out of spite, but for survival and to preserve the lives and dreams that depend on it. Yes people do make a living scalping/reselling. I know it's hard to imagine, but it's true. Toys, clothes, machine parts, all go to ebay and many people do depend on those sales. They do not do this to hurt parents or to frustrate you, but to make money. Simple, yes? Do they need that money? Case by case basis. Maybe yes. Maybe no. But it is wrong to cover them all in a blanket of evil. Yes that is wrong. You don't know why they do what they do. You can't.
I must agree, and I think this is well stated.
My frusteration with the scalpers is that a good portion of them are not running legitimate businesses. No business licences, no tax reporting... Just scooping up what's already been marked up retail and marking it up again for resale, and in mass. But, I believe in free trade and commerce and the welfare of small business.
Sticky question. ;)
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My frusteration with the scalpers is that a good portion of them are not running legitimate businesses. No business licences, no tax reporting...
This is my main issue with "scalpers/resellers". If you're doing this as a legitimate source of income, then you should just bite the bullet and pay for the licensing fees so you can go ahead and buy wholesale/resell at a more reasonable price. Now, if the reason you're NOT doing that is so you don't have to pay taxes, well that's kind of fishy.
I understand casual selling or selling things you can't buy wholesale. I occasionally bought and sold Japanese stuff until the economy went to heck and the exchange rate tanked - can't buy wholesale as they tend not to ship outside Japan. But if you're to the point where you are buying out multiple cases (some before the store has opened them) and going to multiple stores, well, you're doing this as more than an occasional thing.
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I think you have a really good point there.
What's more, a lot of stores already puts a limit to the number of items you can buy during certain promotions, be they toasters or bags of chips. Why not limit very hot toys to 2 of each? :huh: It's not like there are scalpers for chips, so the stores do it to keep customers happy... how about keeping parents from a lot panic and distress during holiday shopping? (yeah I know it wouldn't magically solve the problem but it couldn't hurt either)
Actually, folks TOTALLY scalp chips! Not on Ebay or anything but before rules were in place, owners of small stores would come in, buy cartloads of chips/pop/whatever and sell it at a mark-up in their own store. People don't want to go to another store or nothing else is open so they buy from the little store and a profit is made. It doesn't stop any store owners with big families or friends to help but it does slow them down so maybe someone else can get the deal.
I agree with the idea of a limit like that on hot items. Even if it was as loose as 2 of each character. At least it would give someone else a chance over shelf-clearers.
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I tend to have a negative view of scalpers/resellers in general and I refuse to buy dolls/toys at a high mark-up. A few dollars, sure - because I'm willing to pay a bit more than retail for the convenience of not having to stalk stores or even leave my house at all. But anything more than that, I just do without whatever the toy or doll is.
HOWEVER, with that said... I think the companies are more to blame for the scarcity of some toys and the fact that scalpers become the ONLY option. For instance, the new Scaris line was being scalped and resold immediately. But more and more are arriving in stores and online retailers - and dolls that were going for $50 on eBay last week can be found online for $14 the next - because Mattel keeps providing more of them.
Now, if Mattel kept pumping out enough toys to cover the demand (or even just come CLOSE to it), ALL of the dolls would eventually be buyable from legitimate retailers and scalpers would only be another option (if you're impatient or whatever). So I don't blame scalpers for the scarcity of the male dolls - I blame Mattel. They've GOT to realize what's going on and release more of these dolls.
I'm not meaning retired dolls, of course. Once a toy's "run" is over, it's understandable that resellers would be the only option, as the company simply isn't making more of that toy at all. But short-stacking certain dolls and refusing to correct the error by making up the difference in future ship-outs is pretty lame. And it seems to me like it would be detrimental to Mattel's overall profits, too.
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although I do understand some of the points on the argument, I say scalpers. As a collector, a parent of a collector, and a collector who helps other collectors out occasionally, I will sometimes buy more than one of the same type of doll. However, I have made it my own personal practice never to buy out the entire first stock run of a store and to only really start helping other collectors once new dolls have started appearing in multiple stores around me. I have the luck to live in an area with 5 or 6 Walmarts, 4 Targets, and one TRU within a 20 minute radius of me. I know I have a resource rich area--- however, I'm also pretty certain that I also live near some scalpers or fellow collectors since I have seen shelves packed full one day completely bare the next. As a student I have had a lot of time to watch these patterns and ponder them.... Luckily I've witnessed enough kids getting the dolls to know they're getting hooked up too :)
I am with the above poster who gets frustrated with the resellers who are not licensed and not reporting for taxes- at the volume that a lot of the ebay sellers are working at, there really is no way to deny they are running a business. I will be billing for a free lance graphic design job in a little over a week- and there is no way I could get away with not having a tax number or reporting that work for taxes....my personal business run out of my office is really no different (less profitable most likely, but still, no different) then theirs- so the taxation should be there too.
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Definitely scalpers, I'm not even just saying that as a collector. I'm saying that as someone who works RETAIL and has SEEN the havoc they wreak in honestly? The name of greed. It's sad.
This. I spent way too many years in retail hell.
Why should stores set limits? I mean, I know why they do. Why do they care who buys it? If a scalpers swoops in and buys them all aren't you just going to come back in their store later and look again? I looked every where for the Jason Wu Target bag. I'd go to one Target and remember that I needed milk. I'd check another Target and get toilet paper. See what I mean? Why wouldn't they want you to keep coming back in the store looking for it?
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I am with the above poster who gets frustrated with the resellers who are not licensed and not reporting for taxes- at the volume that a lot of the ebay sellers are working at, there really is no way to deny they are running a business.
If they are selling at that kind of volume, they are paying taxes on it. Income through ebay/paypal and amazon (as well as other online retailers I'm sure) is reported to the IRS and if it's over a certain amount (which is determined by the IRS using the same sort of guidelines as any other income tax) you pay tax on it.
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I am with the above poster who gets frustrated with the resellers who are not licensed and not reporting for taxes- at the volume that a lot of the ebay sellers are working at, there really is no way to deny they are running a business.
If they are selling at that kind of volume, they are paying taxes on it. Income through ebay/paypal and amazon (as well as other online retailers I'm sure) is reported to the IRS and if it's over a certain amount (which is determined by the IRS using the same sort of guidelines as any other income tax) you pay tax on it.
Good to know :). Obviously I've never approached that amount in my dealings with eBay :)
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Yeah, that policy has only been in place for a few years, but the IRS got wise to how much money can be made selling things online.
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I am with the above poster who gets frustrated with the resellers who are not licensed and not reporting for taxes- at the volume that a lot of the ebay sellers are working at, there really is no way to deny they are running a business.
If they are selling at that kind of volume, they are paying taxes on it. Income through ebay/paypal and amazon (as well as other online retailers I'm sure) is reported to the IRS and if it's over a certain amount (which is determined by the IRS using the same sort of guidelines as any other income tax) you pay tax on it.
Good to know :). Obviously I've never approached that amount in my dealings with eBay :)
Not only that, but if they're buying them en masse from a toy store they're paying the sales tax as well.
This thread has been very informative, and everyone has some good points! My only concern would be if, hypothetically, Mattel increased their production, would the quality suffer even more than it does now? It's no secret that as the MH line has flourished and the factories have been cranking out more dolls we're seeing many more instances of mispierced ears, wonky eyes, sloppy rooting jobs, and the like. It's almost (almost!) worth it to me to pay more for one of fewer stock, if it means I'll have a nicer and better-made doll. :(
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When it boils down to it, this whole debate seems to be two sides of the same coin:
a) scalpers buy all the things we want and sell them at crazy prices
b) collectors want to buy all the things right away
Collectors want to have everything NOW. We want to be the first to post that we have the newest dolls. Some of us want to bask in the limelight of internet fame while everyone fawns over the fact that we have a new toy before everyone else. We are impatient. We collect - sometimes multiples of the exact same item so that we can play with one and keep the other in a box under our beds or in our closets. And if I can borrow logic that someone else used earlier in regards to why the scalpers are bad, every doll we buy is one that some child doesn't get to have.
To me, as I've said in a previous thread, reselling anything is a job. They have to be constantly out buying everything. Not every store has a set truck delivery schedule. Walmart, for instance, gets a truck every day, and there's no set schedule that says "Toys are going to be delivered on Monday, Electronics will be delivered on Wednesday." Eddie's TRU gets its big truck deliveries on two days a week, and right now is getting a couple of extra smaller trucks during the week, but again, there's no set schedule of what is coming in on each day. This means that anyone reselling items is going to be forced to go to the store(s) on a daily basis in hopes of getting whatever it is that they are reselling. Where I live in Rhode Island, it's easy enough for a buyer to make the rounds of two Targets, a TRU, a Walmart, a Kohls, and a Justice all withing about 4 miles of each other. Expand things a bit and you can add a K-Mart and a Super Walmart to your rounds. At this time of year, it will take you a minimum of 10 minutes to get out of the parking lot for one of those Targets, and TRU is a madhouse even at midnight these days.
In addition to travelling around the state every day, they've got to research what it is that they're selling. They've got to know which toys out there have people buying to collect as opposed to playing with. They have to know what new releases are coming out, they've got to know which of those releases are going to be hotter than others. They've got to be able to figure out that one series is going to sell better than others. They've got to read forums and boards (yes, even this one) and see what it is that we're most excited to see coming out. They have to spend time posting items for sale, be it eBay or Craigslist or forums dedicated to whatever it is that they're selling. They've got to package and post the items that they sell, and relist the ones that don't.
Scalping, whether we agree with it or not, is a job to some people, and these people have every right to buy the dolls as we do. Would I do it? Probably not. I'm lucky enough to have a job at the moment, but I can definitely understand why people resell dolls - people will buy them at crazy prices. They know that completionists are going to buy things to fill up a spot in their collection. They know that some parents will pay crazy amounts of money to get something for their kids. Toy companies don't care about scalping - as has already been pointed out, at the point that the doll is on the shelves at the stores, the toy company already has their money.
We, as collectors, are mad because we don't have dolls and they do. We're mad because we can't afford to spend a morning driving around to buy toys, we're mad that few of us can afford to buy an entire shelf full of dolls for our collections while these people can load up two shopping carts full of things that they don't enjoy the same way that we do. If the stores were implementing rules saying there was a limit to how many toys were bought, then I'd be upset, but for now, I just wait until things are more plentiful and be patient.
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Collectors want to have everything NOW. We want to be the first to post that we have the newest dolls.
:blush: This is so true.
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Collectors want to have everything NOW. We want to be the first to post that we have the newest dolls.
:blush: This is so true.
That depends heavily on the collector. I know that I am not personally like this. I collect MH, but I haven't even gone out looking for the new Scaris line and I likely won't until the holiday season is over. I passed on Zecora and the MLP Collector's Set with Nightmare Moon because I wasn't sure the cost was justified.
Some collectors are very patient and don't give in so much to desire for "internet fame". Sure, I'm getting my dolls much later than others, but I also have several expensive collections I try to keep up on to some degree. I'll never be best in any of them, but I enjoy each of them equally.
Personally, in the case of Monster High, I'd rather see the dolls more readily available through their own online store.
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Sorry, I meant for me, that the fact is true for me. I love getting new dolls while they are brand new. Don't get me wrong, I still love finding a doll or getting one that I haven't had a chance to, but there is something about finding a brand new doll when you know she hasn't been sitting on that shelf for long. But that is just me, personally.
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Collectors want to have everything NOW. We want to be the first to post that we have the newest dolls.
:blush: This is so true.
That depends heavily on the collector. I know that I am not personally like this. I collect MH, but I haven't even gone out looking for the new Scaris line and I likely won't until the holiday season is over. I passed on Zecora and the MLP Collector's Set with Nightmare Moon because I wasn't sure the cost was justified.
Some collectors are very patient and don't give in so much to desire for "internet fame". Sure, I'm getting my dolls much later than others, but I also have several expensive collections I try to keep up on to some degree. I'll never be best in any of them, but I enjoy each of them equally.
Personally, in the case of Monster High, I'd rather see the dolls more readily available through their own online store.
I'm not saying that all collectors are like this. I'm saying we like to show off our new toys, and some people are willing to overspend by a great deal to do so before anyone else. I collect ponies and MH, and I'm content to be patient with my collecting because I can't afford not to be, but there are others who aren't in my position.
And what would stop resellers from buying loads of them from the online store? Look what happened with the SDCC pony this year. Between the con itself and the online sale, I'd hazard a guess that a great part of those sales went to people simply to resell them at a profit, limits or no. There is no way to prevent people from buying what they want to buy. Store limits a buyer to two dolls per transaction? Fine. They're going in with a spouse, their mother, and three neighborhood kids, all equipped with cash, all buying two dolls. There goes twelve dolls - two entire cases. There was a discussion a couple of pages back on how to outsmart Amazon's limit on dolls. Until people - collectors, parents, anyone buying the hot items - are unwilling to pay these prices because they're either too impatient to wait or don't realize what the normal retail prices are, the problem isn't going to go away anytime soon.
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Sorry, I meant for me, that the fact is true for me. I love getting new dolls while they are brand new. Don't get me wrong, I still love finding a doll or getting one that I haven't had a chance to, but there is something about finding a brand new doll when you know she hasn't been sitting on that shelf for long. But that is just me, personally.
I apologize, I was more trying to denote that the original statement was very generalized and failed to take into account that all collectors are different. No two people collect the same and that's part of what is so cool about collecting.
It's fine to be a collector who wants to be the first to get all the new goods. However, that's not the only way people collect. Generalizing an entire group of individuals gets under my skin, because this is how social stigma starts (all bronies are bad, adults who watch MLP:FiM are creepy, all collectors are out for first blood, everyone who reads a certain comic is addicted to abuse, etc).
I'm not saying that all collectors are like this.
Except that you did. If you misspoke, that's alright. Still, you said "collectors". As in, all collectors. Not "some". Not "many". Collectors, in general.
Collectors want to have everything NOW. We want to be the first to post that we have the newest dolls.
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Sorry, I meant for me, that the fact is true for me. I love getting new dolls while they are brand new. Don't get me wrong, I still love finding a doll or getting one that I haven't had a chance to, but there is something about finding a brand new doll when you know she hasn't been sitting on that shelf for long. But that is just me, personally.
I apologize, I was more trying to denote that the original statement was very generalized and failed to take into account that all collectors are different. No two people collect the same and that's part of what is so cool about collecting.
It's fine to be a collector who wants to be the first to get all the new goods. However, that's not the only way people collect. Generalizing an entire group of individuals gets under my skin, because this is how social stigma starts (all bronies are bad, adults who watch MLP:FiM are creepy, all collectors are out for first blood, everyone who reads a certain comic is addicted to abuse, etc).
I'm not saying that all collectors are like this.
Except that you did. If you misspoke, that's alright. Still, you said "collectors". As in, all collectors. Not "some". Not "many". Collectors, in general.
Collectors want to have everything NOW. We want to be the first to post that we have the newest dolls.
Fine. As an average, collectors want to show off their collections. Better?
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Fine. As an average, collectors want to show off their collections. Better?
I don't get why it's a completely different statement now. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to start a fight. I am really just trying to make a counter-point.
I like showing off my collection as much as the next person. I don't, however, need to be the first one at the store buying whatever merchandise is hitting the floor this very instant. It's not the same thing that you said earlier.
Rather than stating it as "Collectors are/do this ...", it could be "There are collectors who are/do this ..." or "Some collectors are/do this ...". They exist, but they are not the only example of collectors.
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To me, those phrases are awkward with the point I was trying to make. I'm sorry if they offend you, that was not the point. The point of my rant was to speak a hard truth that applies to many collectors out there, and I chose harsh words for that reason. A great many collectors reap what they sow, thus the generalized language.
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I think everyone is a little to blame here (except for the children, of course :lol:) I'm waiting until after Christmas to get the newest MH lines, so I'm not a gotta-have-it-now person, but I'm scared outta my mind any one of the dolls I'm waiting on will mysteriously vanish out of the cases. Mattel has trained me to panic and buy whatever I need as soon as I see it. I don't mean to clear a shelf, but if that's all that's there....... :lookround:
Some people think selling Wave 1 dolls for more than $25 is scalping. Some think wanting to get $100 for their Gil is scalping. I don't understand that. Why can't I get a fair price for what I own, without feeling guilty? (hypothetical. I don't sell dolls. People are much to picky about their dolls which makes selling way too stressful! Just about all my trade points are purchases ;))
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Some people think selling Wave 1 dolls for more than $25 is scalping. Some think wanting to get $100 for their Gil is scalping. I don't understand that. Why can't I get a fair price for what I own, without feeling guilty? (hypothetical. I don't sell dolls. People are much to picky about their dolls which makes selling way too stressful! Just about all my trade points are purchases ;))
Yeah, I don't understand the complaints in cases like that either. I see people complain about the prices of some of the out of circulation g4 ponies now and then (I'm looking at you, Lily Blossom and Fashion Style Applejack), and don't understand why some buyers get their knickers in a wad about wanting to pay retail prices for something that's hasn't been on the shelf for a few years. To me, part of having a collection is understanding that you're going to pay a higher price for things that aren't being made anymore. You have to make decisions about what you're willing to pay a premium for. It's not like I can go on eBay and start demanding that sellers reduce their prices of Mimic down for the $4 or so that she was in the '80's.
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I just wanted to throw this out there: the ONLY point I have yet to see on this subject is that very few realize that some of those auctions start off as $0.99 auctions. It goes as high as the bidder feels that the item is worth, of course there are some cases of illegal shill bids but those are usually taken care of. Honestly these people are not "scalpers", scalping is a term used for those who sell things for a higher price illegally like CONCERT TICKETS. They're resellers since it's not illegal for toys to be bought for a lower price and turn around and sold for a higher price, and it's probably a life style for most or a source of extra income that regular work in this economy cannot provide to try to get ahead in life. I've watched the pony market for example - I know there are a few in the market who take advantage of a low price on more valuable items and turn around a resell it for higher after having it for a few months or sometimes right away. Dolls are no different. I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone and not trying to defend any one. I'll admit though that my husband likes to resell if he finds that there's a profit to be made regardless if it is Monster High or Walking Dead or what ever is at the time high selling/sought after item - it helps us out since we have a room empty that is supposed to be rented out and it keeps our house warm and food in our fridge. If I personally sell anything I do go off of market value - what did the last people who bought these items get them for, how much was one willing to spend to get it. Most of us have posted asking for the market value on the items we were looking to sell no matter the reasoning or the item.
I love hunting for new dolls, but if it's not in stock I'm not going to blame a fellow collector or reseller or a parent for there not being stock. It's life and we can just move on. Maybe it's me and my "oh well, I'll get it next time" mentality, I'm not going to stomp my feet and hold my breath because someone walked out with a cart full of what ever and didn't leave me one. There are times where I just wait until the new factor wears down and I can find what I am looking for.
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I just wanted to throw this out there: the ONLY point I have yet to see on this subject is that very few realize that some of those auctions start off as $0.99 auctions. It goes as high as the bidder feels that the item is worth, of course there are some cases of illegal shill bids but those are usually taken care of.
Yeah, I saw some people on tumblr badmouthing some poor seller for how high her dolls were going for when the starting price was $0.99!
I know I sometimes go "guys, why are you having a bidwar 6 days before the auction ends? >_<" but to actually take out your anger on the seller or the people bidding is just wrong. Buyers have a right to bid however much they want on something. If it takes a $20 doll up to $100, well then that's market value! Besides, if no one bid a higher price, it wouldn't go up, since that's how ebay works nowadays!
I mean, I've decided I'm not getting some of the older dolls because I know current sale value is the price of 3-6 dolls new from the store. That's my decision. If someone else really loves that doll/is willing to pay that much? That's their decision! I know I've bid pretty high prices on some Sailor Moon stuff because it couldn't be bought in stores anymore.
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I suppose the demand/scalpers were why TRU raised the price of Zecora from 6.49 (or whatever it was) to $17. THey want a slice of that desperation pie too....
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I suppose the demand/scalpers were why TRU raised the price of Zecora from 6.49 (or whatever it was) to $17. THey want a slice of that desperation pie too....
And as a result, she is plentiful in the stores now. Well, at least she is here. Raising the prices can really help cut back on scalpers. They have a smaller profit margin.
On a side note, looks like Skelita and Jinafire prices on Ebay have started to fall. Thats a good thing :)
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I'd say scalpers. They buy 10 of the same monster high doll to make extra money. They have no interest in the dolls and they leave 10 people with no doll. 10 collectors who don't get a doll, whether they are kids or adults.