The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Wardah on November 27, 2012, 06:35:03 PM
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2012/11/26/my-little-pony/1725375/
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Neat, nice to see the nod to when the line started as well in the first line.
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Awww! They quoted Fahey from Kotaku! I love Kotaku! :lovey:
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"It's the male fans, however, who have taken a kids' show and turned it into a pop-culture phenom."
Yeah...sure.
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"It's the male fans, however, who have taken a kids' show and turned it into a pop-culture phenom."
Yeah...sure.
That's a weird thing for them to say since the line's been thriving for oh I dunno...30 years? At least it was nicely put and not all,"guys like ponies...weird innit?".
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"It's the male fans, however, who have taken a kids' show and turned it into a pop-culture phenom."
Yeah...sure.
That's a weird thing for them to say since the line's been thriving for oh I dunno...30 years?
Seconded.
Nice articel over all though and always nice to see the MLP's getting attention :)
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At least they focused on the charity aspect of the fandom...
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First sentence...
Where there are Ponies, there are little girls — and Bronies.
Since I'm not a little girl or a Brony where the heck does that leave me?
Second sentence...
The dynamic, happy-go-lucky horses of My Little Pony are riding higher than they ever have since their 1983 debut
I thought it was 1982.
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First sentence...
Where there are Ponies, there are little girls — and Bronies.
Since I'm not a little girl or a Brony where the heck does that leave me?
Haha, of course you can be there too :) They didn't say ladies aren't fans or anything.
I think that is meant to be juxtaposition. Little girls... and big grown up guys! The rest of the article focuses on how appealing MLP is to all ages and genders, anyway.
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"It's the male fans, however, who have taken a kids' show and turned it into a pop-culture phenom."
Yeah...sure.
It's unfortunately true. Male-dominated fanbases are always catered to, females are (usually) overlooked, unless it's something atrocious like Twilight or another book series I won't mention here.
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"It's the male fans, however, who have taken a kids' show and turned it into a pop-culture phenom."
Yeah...sure.
It's unfortunately true. Male-dominated fanbases are always catered to, females are (usually) overlooked, unless it's something atrocious like Twilight or another book series I won't mention here.
Well, we did have our own conventions and collector items and what not.
It annoys me that they only consider it important the moment guys get into it. I don't know what is worse, people who think it's kinda wierd for guys to like ponies or people who think guys liking ponies is something worthy of praise.
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I think it seems to come across as a nice positive article :) And to be fair to it although it does push the brony angle a little, it gives me hope in sentences like "Audiences are responding, and not just dudes: My Little Pony (airing Saturday mornings at 10:30 ET) is one of the Hub's highest-rated series, and its season premiere earlier this month showed increases in child, adult and family demographics.". It shows that there is recognition for the show as having interest and value to everyone - collector and/or brony, girl or boy, adult or child.
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"It's the male fans, however, who have taken a kids' show and turned it into a pop-culture phenom."
Yeah...sure.
It's unfortunately true. Male-dominated fanbases are always catered to, females are (usually) overlooked, unless it's something atrocious like Twilight or another book series I won't mention here.
Well, we did have our own conventions and collector items and what not.
It annoys me that they only consider it important the moment guys get into it. I don't know what is worse, people who think it's kinda wierd for guys to like ponies or people who think guys liking ponies is something worthy of praise.
I think it has more to do with how female dominated fanbases tend to just kind of quietly stick to ourselves in our own corners of the internet. Male fans of all sorts tend to be more out there and vocal (both in positive ways and negative ways). Not too many of us female fans would go onto a gaming or comics forum and brag about our love of ponies in the past where as a lot of the new FIM fandom would post ponies anywhere and everywhere. So much so that a lot of places had to make a section just for pony talk.
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Re: 1982 / 1983. The first toys are stamped "1982", but I believe they did first become widely available in stores in 1983.
The recent popularity has been an "epiphany" for Hub president and CEO Margaret Loesch, who was an executive producer for the original 1980s My Little Pony cartoon as well as for those of its fellow Hasbro toy franchises G.I. Joe and Transformers. (The Hub is a joint venture of Hasbro and Discovery.)
OMG. We need to find a way to interview this lady!!
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That was a very nice little article, wish it would mention girl Bronies (hello! We exist! :lookround: ), but it's still a nice non-negative story.
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I think it was a LA times article about Bronies that got me back into the toy isle at Target and eventually led me here, so I have to thank the Bronies for the coverage otherwise I wouldn't have known MLP's were still being made and my adult life would be a lot less colorful. I hope this article has the same effect for others like me.
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So cool!
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Ya know, I'm sorry to be so negative, but this is yet another article that just irritates me.
Suddenly MLP is sooooo cool because MEN are into the show. I'm a female long-time fan and collector but it's not cool because I was born with ovaries.
But now it's cool and soooo not girly to like MLP now, since men like it. *rolls eyes* Like being girly is a bad thing, anyways.
I hope I am not out of line saying this. I am getting really tired of the FiM fandom. Feeling isolated due to articles like this, even though I've been into MLP for a long time, seems really unfair.
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Yeah, I would like to see an article actually post about the feminist aspects of it instead of making it (like everything) about men.
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"It's the male fans, however, who have taken a kids' show and turned it into a pop-culture phenom."
Yeah...sure.
It's unfortunately true. Male-dominated fanbases are always catered to, females are (usually) overlooked, unless it's something atrocious like Twilight or another book series I won't mention here.
This is exactly why I am very wary and often get agitated at the existence of "bronies". While I have no problem with men being interested in something that is mainly marketed towards females, I do hold issue with the way some act when coming into a women-based hobby or community.
Men are catered to the majority of the time, in countless ways. So when they take up interest in something where it was originally female-dominated, I feel that they should have a certain level of respect for that space and the women who reside in it. Sadly, a lot of bronies don't.
I'm not saying all bronies are horrible people but I've seen a good portion be rude, crude, insulting, and continually act as if MLP was made entirely for them and that their opinions should be the only ones that matter. Look, MLP:FiM was created by a woman and is geared toward young girls. If you like it, that's great, subvert all the gender norms you want, but have respect for the women for whom this is one of the few places they get to call their own.
I don't even want to go into the more perverse side of the brony fandom. Which, again, your life, but this is a show for YOUNG GIRLS who nowadays have access to the internet on a regular basis, please, PLEASE, do not post that stuff where they will find it!
If this sounds bitter, I do apologize, and to any male members of the forum, I mean no offense to you. I'm just upset that people can't seem to manage to have a respect or understanding for different groups and how not everyone has equal privilege when it comes to things.
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Raise your glasses!
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Totally agree with you, zannid!
Even the existance of the word brony has gotten me annoyed. Let's dimish all femininity to the MLP fandom because men like it and it's not cool for men to like anything for inferior females.
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The responses here haven't exactly made me feel the greatest for being a male brony. :(
Don't think Faust intended to make a show that catered to anyone except for young girls and their parents, I really don't think an unexpected fanbase did anything but make the show and toys more popular...
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The responses here haven't exactly made me feel the greatest for being a male brony. :(
Don't think Faust intended to make a show that catered to anyone except for young girls and their parents, I really don't think an unexpected fanbase did anything but make the show and toys more popular...
Hugs. I'm a girl Brony even, but I still feel uncomfortable.
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Faust picked out some good examples of what people can be, and showed that not everyone has to be the same. The show has lessons that cross gender lines and that are relevant to many people, restricting it to just one gender is denying them both a great cartoon and valuable life lessons.
I don't watch the show to just break gender lines. I watch the show because it is fantastic.
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Faust picked out some good examples of what people can be, and showed that not everyone has to be the same. The show has lessons that cross gender lines and that are relevant to many people, restricting it to just one gender is denying them both a great cartoon and valuable life lessons.
I don't watch the show to just break gender lines. I watch the show because it is fantastic.
Tupin, please don't feel unwelcome because you're a guy. No one is saying that guys aren't welcome in MLP fandom or that it's only about breaking gender norms, it's much more than that.
I guess the best example would be pointing out comic book culture. Girls and women generally aren't welcome there. When they are represented it's as eye candy for men. The outfits for the heroines are nearly always skimpy and tight fitting. When women decide to dress up as these characters, they're then accused of being attention seeking, not knowing the source material, vain, not worthy, the list goes on and on.
We just had a future Marvel movie director make a downright sickening commentary on female superheroes. I believe at current there is ONE female working on comics at DC. I got dirty looks from some men at a comic convention just for being there (I wasn't dressed up). Granted, there were also some very nice guys, but this is what we get to deal with most of the time.
Now, that example is of a group that has been playing the "boys club" card for years. My Little Pony though, it started as geared towards females and had a female majority fanbase. Not that there were never male fans, but that they didn't make up a greater sum. Then comes the bronies and, while some are majorly cool people, there have been A LOT of guys who have been far less than that.
That effect, of having one of not a whole lot of places where we were the majority and our voices were heard, suddenly being drowned out by guys who, from a larger perspective, seem to get more options most of the time? Well, for a lot of fans, it sucks. Did you know that in media, men are represented more than women 3:1? That's just in characters, not to mention that most of these shows are geared to a male demographic.
It's not even necessarily that MLP became a more male fanbase or that there are so many rude people (because let's be honest, the negative people always seem louder than the positive ones). It's having the media and culture constantly telling you that you don't count or aren't worth it. It leaves people hurting and makes them defensive of the spaces that are theirs.
Men are totally welcome in MLP, in my opinion. I don't think anyone should be forced to avoid a show they like because of their sex or gender. Just, realize that where you are isn't ONLY a man's space and that, while you have the luxury of crossing over into female-based fandoms (disregarding the stigma held for things marked feminine), it's often so much harder for women to get into male-based facets of society.
Sadly, there are many bronies who don't realize or accept that, and that's mainly where the issues seem to reside.
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Faust picked out some good examples of what people can be, and showed that not everyone has to be the same. The show has lessons that cross gender lines and that are relevant to many people, restricting it to just one gender is denying them both a great cartoon and valuable life lessons.
I don't watch the show to just break gender lines. I watch the show because it is fantastic.
Tupin, please don't feel unwelcome because you're a guy. No one is saying that guys aren't welcome in MLP fandom or that it's only about breaking gender norms, it's much more than that.
I guess the best example would be pointing out comic book culture. Girls and women generally aren't welcome there. When they are represented it's as eye candy for men. The outfits for the heroines are nearly always skimpy and tight fitting. When women decide to dress up as these characters, they're then accused of being attention seeking, not knowing the source material, vain, not worthy, the list goes on and on.
We just had a future Marvel movie director make a downright sickening commentary on female superheroes. I believe at current there is ONE female working on comics at DC. I got dirty looks from some men at a comic convention just for being there (I wasn't dressed up). Granted, there were also some very nice guys, but this is what we get to deal with most of the time.
Now, that example is of a group that has been playing the "boys club" card for years. My Little Pony though, it started as geared towards females and had a female majority fanbase. Not that there were never male fans, but that they didn't make up a greater sum. Then comes the bronies and, while some are majorly cool people, there have been A LOT of guys who have been far less than that.
That effect, of having one of not a whole lot of places where we were the majority and our voices were heard, suddenly being drowned out by guys who, from a larger perspective, seem to get more options most of the time? Well, for a lot of fans, it sucks. Did you know that in media, men are represented more than women 3:1? That's just in characters, not to mention that most of these shows are geared to a male demographic.
It's not even necessarily that MLP became a more male fanbase or that there are so many rude people (because let's be honest, the negative people always seem louder than the positive ones). It's having the media and culture constantly telling you that you don't count or aren't worth it. It leaves people hurting and makes them defensive of the spaces that are theirs.
Men are totally welcome in MLP, in my opinion. I don't think anyone should be forced to avoid a show they like because of their sex or gender. Just, realize that where you are isn't ONLY a man's space and that, while you have the luxury of crossing over into female-based fandoms (disregarding the stigma held for things marked feminine), it's often so much harder for women to get into male-based facets of society.
Sadly, there are many bronies who don't realize or accept that, and that's mainly where the issues seem to reside.
At least with comics some progress is being made. While in the past nobody would have batted an eye on those comments. Now there has been a lot of people outraged at what he said. Maybe I am just an optimist but I do feel things are changing for the better. Not to say that there won't be speed bumps along the way but progress is rarely a smooth path.
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Well said, zannid.
Actually I feel the comics industry is getting worse, especially DC. "Hey, what if all the Amazons on Paradise Island were MURDEROUS RAPISTS?" "Hey, what if we just sorta erased Cassandra Cain (Batgirl II) and Steph (Spoiler)?" "Hey, let's break up Lois and Superman too . . . Superman being married NEUTERS him."
My jaw unhinged when I heard that last comment. Apparently men are "ruined" just by being around a woman, or what? And that comment came from the head of DC, Dan Didio. Not just the kid who makes the coffee or something. I am not sure what's happening over at Marvel, hopefully things are better there.
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On the one hand, I'm very glad male fans are getting positive attention because as has been said many times, we shouldn't be telling people what they can and can't like based on gender, and I think in some ways, it can be a lot harder for a guy to like "girl" stuff than a girl to like "boy" stuff.
At the same time, I agree that every single story, report, whatever about the popularity of MLP ignores the adult female fans that have been around since the beginning, ignores the new female fans, ignores the feminist intent of the show's creators, etc. Yes, bronies may be more vocal, and that's fine by me, but don't the people writing these stories do some research? Sometimes I wonder if the writers of these pieces just assume that women liking girl's show's is "normal" and forget we, as teens and adults are also not the target audience. The people may be more interested is what stands out as "odd" (guys who like ponies) and less interested in why MLP is appealing to everyone in the first place.
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On the one hand, I'm very glad male fans are getting positive attention because as has been said many times, we shouldn't be telling people what they can and can't like based on gender, and I think in some ways, it can be a lot harder for a guy to like "girl" stuff than a girl to like "boy" stuff.
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Indeed. People seem to not even care if a girl wears clothes from the boy section, but if a boy wears girl clothes, everyone goes nuts. Just as girls seem to be able to buy guy stuff in the toy aisle, but a boy getting a girl toy is outrageous.
Oh god I hate the "boy" and "girl" labels for things. Things are for people, not a certain gender. :mad:
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I think in some ways, it can be a lot harder for a guy to like "girl" stuff than a girl to like "boy" stuff.
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Indeed. People seem to not even care if a girl wears clothes from the boy section, but if a boy wears girl clothes, everyone goes nuts. Just as girls seem to be able to buy guy stuff in the toy aisle, but a boy getting a girl toy is outrageous.
Oh god I hate the "boy" and "girl" labels for things. Things are for people, not a certain gender. :mad:
That ^, and that. ^
Back to the article itself, though, I liked its tone. I didn't detect any underlying "WTF???" nuances, which is often the case in articles about MLP male fans (or, yeah, MLP fans in general... as in "wtf? Adults like a kids toy?") (another thing that bugs me are age-labels!) I'm wondering if what drew the reporter's attention, though, was the charity aspect of brony-dom.
ETA: I am absolutely NOT going to read any of the comments on the article's website. Usually a huuuuge waste of time and only aggravating.
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On the one hand, I'm very glad male fans are getting positive attention because as has been said many times, we shouldn't be telling people what they can and can't like based on gender, and I think in some ways, it can be a lot harder for a guy to like "girl" stuff than a girl to like "boy" stuff.
In a larger societal view, yes, guys are often discriminated against for liking feminine things. Though that's mostly because feminine is viewed as weak or inferior and so men should be manly men.
In the case of community, though, guys are often more easily accepted into female-based communities vs. women into male-based communities. Oftentimes women even choose to buy less "feminine" clothes to fit in in an already male-based community. It helps separate you as "one of the guys" instead of "those gross girls"
Of course, this is just my experience in the groups I've been in over the years. Also, ignoring factors like women occasionally being physically intimidated by men in their space. (When I say "space" I mean the areas of interest in which they associate). You'll always have some women who don't think men should be anything other than masculine, same as you'll always have some men who think women should always be feminine and stay within the areas "fitting" for their gender.
It's complicated, y'all. Like, super complicated. And fjfhfjhfdfdf I just want to play with my ponies and read my comics and wear my biker boots while ogling pretty dresses and ignore the societal gender boxes for a while. Cause dude, those boxes ain't fun for nobody.
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On the one hand, I'm very glad male fans are getting positive attention because as has been said many times, we shouldn't be telling people what they can and can't like based on gender, and I think in some ways, it can be a lot harder for a guy to like "girl" stuff than a girl to like "boy" stuff.
In a larger societal view, yes, guys are often discriminated against for liking feminine things. Though that's mostly because feminine is viewed as weak or inferior and so men should be manly men.
Yes, definitely! I think this is the center of a lot of problems. Feminine is associated with weak (ie: inferior), which is from one perspective, is harmful to women, but is socially acceptable, so we, even as adults, can like "little girl things" and generally speaking not be seen as weird, other than perhaps obsessive (hence the lack of attention in these pieces on the popularity of MLP, even positive ones like this). But from another perspective, is harmful to men who might like something generally considered "feminine," which I think can lead to two understandable reactions in guys who this bothers/harms or girls who don't like being considered weak: they can try to change opinions (their own or others') about gender, interests, etc. (like all the bronies I know personally, and I would put most of us here too, including Faust, given her goals with FiM), or they can deny that they like something "girly" (leading to the rude, insulting bronies).
I am glad that positive articles like this keep coming out, as infuriating as I find it to not see us long-time fans really acknowledged. But on the whole, I do think it's ultimately a good thing for the MLP community (fractured as it may be), and a good thing for people outside of it to think about and hopefully find less "scary" or "threatening".
I also think all of this, all of FiM's popularity as well as attention outside of the pony fan community means that Faust's aim of creating a show for girls that didn't conform to mindless gender stereotypes was successful at doing just that. And I think people know it, or they (rude fans or even just the insulting commenters) wouldn't be complaining if they weren't on some level aware of it.
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The word "girly" is getting to much for me.
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I wish we lived in a world where everyone could watch and play and dress how they wanted to.
Gender labels are preventing that :(
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Gosh we seem to have travelled a little off topic! Lets get back to the article shall we?
I think its really interesting the way the article has made such a significant mention of the charity angle which is becoming prominent in the FiM community - its nice to see that kind of perspective being mentioned.
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Yeah, I agree, this article actually did have some interesting things to say that I hadn't heard before.
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Re: 1982 / 1983. The first toys are stamped "1982", but I believe they did first become widely available in stores in 1983.
I still think it's 1982 - just from how I remember them in stores back then and what was available for me to buy in 83 when I started collecting. I don't ever remember seeing Minty, Butterscotch, BlueBelle or Snuzzle in stores; which makes me believe that it was 82 when the first 6 were being sold.
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I rarely see all of the charity work the FiM fandom does mentioned in most news sources outside the fandom. Then again, most news sources just want to stereotype all fans based on their worst examples to give people an easy target to be bigoted against.
I won't say any more about the gender, I think the real disconnect is between fans of FiM exclusively and fans of other generations.
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I rarely see all of the charity work the FiM fandom does mentioned in most news sources outside the fandom. Then again, most news sources just want to stereotype all fans based on their worst examples to give people an easy target to be bigoted against.
I won't say any more about the gender, I think the real disconnect is between fans of FiM exclusively and fans of other generations.
From what i have seen most news sources are fairly positive these days...
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For the longest time it was just "look at these people" and then it became "look how these people act at conventions, we should take away their 'man cards' and keep them away from us, they're creepy."
So it is nice to see a positive article.
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huh, I guess I've fortunately missed a lot of the negative articles. Mostly what I've seen has been positive, although with not much to them. I do think this one may be the best (and most researched) one I've seen.
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It is nice to see more positive attention for the new, older and maybe more male driven fans instead of mockery and torment. Also nice that someone wrote an article in a reputable source that documents the good works a lot of the bronies are doing and also a reasonable explanation as to why they may like a show that is "supposed to be for little girls"