The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: InkyMilk on September 14, 2012, 11:09:20 PM
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Maybe I'm just being oversensitive, but I'm just curious as to why pony cancer is called what it is? Isn't calling something like that...cancer, a little extreme? I just wonder how the name came about and if maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way and not seeing how it's actually a more light-hearted term? I just remember being pretty shocked and a little disturbed the first time I read it, and while now I've gotten over that initial reaction, I do admit it still bothers me if I think about it for too long.
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I guess because it spreads and you can't cure it. I've never had a pony with it though.
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It's kind of like real cancer, because it's caused by changes in the plastic. I think the name is appropriate. You shouldn't think about things like that too much.
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I've never had a pony with it either, but I think even if I did, I still couldn't fathom comparing its condition to someone I've known who's actually had to survive through cancer. I don't know, not much bothers me in the pony community, especially this place since everyone is very sweet and welcoming here and I know it's not meant maliciously or mockingly, I just don't know why folks thought it was really appropriate to use in the first place.
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I was pretty shocked the first time I read it too. My mom actually died of cancer when I was 16.
But that's the established term for it, so I got over it.
I'll still agree it's a bit insensitive. Ponies aren't alive, not matter how much people cherish them, so they can't die or get sick. To use such a seriously feared, and deadly word for something about toys does seem harsh, if not just plain silly. But once you get used to it, you don't think about it much. It's not something I was going to try and raise a ruckus about, but I've seen someone make a post about this before, so I know it must have initially bothered other people as well.
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Since I hadn't become "officially" part of the pony fandom until recently, I don't really know where the term originated.
If you feel that you don't want to use this particular term, you can alternatively refer to it as "plastic decay", "mold" or, most popular term, "age spots". Because that's what it is really.
As for me, I have about three ponies with a few dots on them all of them G1: Skydancer (the rainbow pony, not the winger), Tickle and Parasol. I've kept them on the shelf with other ponies for several months now, and I hadn't noticed any of the other ponies become affected by it. Moreover, before I started collecting I kept my childhood her in a closed bag at the back of my closet, and when I took them all out - all of them were fine, except for the aforementioned Skydancer.
So my guess is that it can only affect certain types of ponies. Here (http://"http://mylittlewiki.org/wiki/Bait"), you can find out the most common "victims". Note that the adult sea ponies are on the list - that's mainly because, being bath toys they had a frequent contact with water and humidity in general, and this is one of the main causes that leads to plastic decay.
Besides, if the "age spots" were contagious, it would've affected all sorts of plastic objects lying around the house. :)
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That term has actually been around for over 10 years now, I couldn't say exactly where it came from. But it's really never bothered me. My mother had breast cancer, my grandmother and other relatives died of cancer, but it just never occured to me to be offended by it in any way.
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My family has been affected by cancer but I'm not offended by the term, I'm not saying that everyone has to be alright with it though and there are other names for it if you prefer. I've definitely not been around long enough to know why it was named 'cancer' but just by looking at the definition of cancer it seems pretty fitting.
"A malignant growth or tumor resulting from such a division of cells"
figurative: "a practice or phenomenon perceived to be evil or destructive and hard to contain or eradicate"
I've always just believed it boiled down to changes in the plastic, like damaged cells that can't repair, that spread (and in this case) without cure. Afterall, the term isn't meant to offend, it's probably just going off a basic definition and not trying to make an emotional connection to what cancer really is and can do. I have a few ponies in my collection with 'cancer' but I refer to it more as age spots, freckles and beauty spots.
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I actually agree that it's pretty insensitive, and you're not the first person I've heard expressing that opinion.
And I think saying "You shouldn't think about things like that so much" is also pretty insensitive.
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I can understand the terminology upsetting people...unfortunately in life, cancer in some way effects everyone through their own health or those of their friends or loved ones. I lost both my grandfathers to it and my aunt is currently terminal. My mum even works for a cancer support charity so, like so many of us, it has touched my life.
However, the term was not coined with the intention of hurting or upsetting people...just look "cancer" up in the dictionary to understand why the phrase is used.
cancer 
1. Pathology
a) a malignant and invasive growth or tumor, especially one originating in epithelium, tending to recur after excision and to metastasize to other sites
b) any disease characterized by such growths.
2. any evil condition or thing that spreads destructively; blight.
3. genitive Cancri; Astronomy the crab, a zodiacal constellation between Gemini and Leo
4. Astrology
a) the fourth sign of the zodiac: the cardinal water sign.
b) a person born under this sign, usually between June 21 and July 22.
5. tropic of Cancer
Technically as a word it has several definitions, for ponies the reason for the term "cancer" is significant to its 2nd definition shown above not the 1st.
Everyone is entitled to not like the phraseology used and if it does particularly upset or annoy...I would suggest using age marks in your own descriptions as they are largely the same "condition".
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Like Hathor pointed out, based on definition, it's actually the best word to technically describle the condition. It's a problem that spreads, you can't get rid of it and it's considered one of the worst things that can happen to a piece of your collection.
And, like others have said, the term has been around for soooooo long. I've been collecting for like 15 years and it's been referred to as cancer since the first time I landed in a pony forum. Sensitivities maybe just weren't as high to using more PC terms back when the phrase was coined. Cancer has always existed, but it seems like it's affected more people in recent years than it had before.
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Thank you all for your opinions and explaining. I don't want to come off as, 'Oh, I see this word, hey, it looks like it could possible be offensive so I'm going to raise hell!' I don't act offended for the sake of being "PC", it's just that it really did genuinely disturb me when I first read it, since as like many others, someone very dear to me passed from cancer and I couldn't see how something that kills so many people worldwide would be used on a toy. I see how the definition could technically include the pony spots so it makes a little more sense now if I try to extract the definition of the word from how it's affected in my in my own life. I'm also glad that age spots is also an appropriate term to use, since I think that's more fitting and I'll probably use that myself now instead.
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I never thought much about how it could be offensive, considering that I've heard the term used amongst collectors for all my life - okay, since I turned 11 and started looking online for ponies. :D So yeah...
I am sure that there are hundreds of collectors out there who have faced the medical condition in their lives over the past 19 years and not once has anyone ever mentioned that it personally offended them...
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I am sure that there are hundreds of collectors out there who have faced the medical condition in their lives over the past 19 years and not once has anyone ever mentioned that it personally offended them...
Uh, not a one? I find that very hard to believe that I'm the first person to mention that the term could be seen as insensitive :hmm: I'm not trying to change the name or cause some sort of huge ruckus here, I was just wondering about the origins and whatnot. No need to single me out like I'm some sort of idiot for thinking it's an awkward term to use.
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I think as mentioned above to your question, the "origins" of the word as you are interested in dont refer to "cancer" in its most obvious and unfortunate definition but more as a "blight"...i.e. "cancer" as a description for what happens rather than as a noun. In literature and in person I have heard and read people, places and other afflictions description as cancer or cancerous...for example "a cancer of the mind", "his presence in their midst was cancerous" - for the former this doesn't refer to someone having cancer but rather that their thoughts are evil or a blight on others. A "cancer" in a pony isnt a direct reference to the disease/condition but more a reference that the pony has some kind of evil/nasty condition which spreads without cure.
I dont think anyone is saying its not possible to be insulted or that you shouldnt have your own opinions of course or be put off by the word but simply that in order to trace the reason for the use of the word you have to remember that it has more than one definition and that its "other definition" is the reason for its use within the community.
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I was never bothered by it until I got breast cancer. Now it bothers me slightly. I'm not really sure why but I think it's just the word "cancer" that bothers me. I guess I'd rather not have something so depressing associated with ponies. But you can't get away from the word no matter what.
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I think you're being oversensitive but that's just me. If it bothers you to refer to it as that, you can always call it smooze or mold, age spots, whatever. Plastic breakdown is a bit of a mouthful imo.
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Thank you for explaining it with those examples hathorcat, I appreciate it. :) I do know I've read the word in similar sorts of contexts before it hasn't bothered me, so I can see how the word can be used in other words unrelated to the diseases that instantly pop into mind.
I'm not asking people to suddenly change the term and I'm not stamping my foot and throwing a tantrum here, so I don't really like other folks here making me feel like I'm the first or only person who has wondered or thought about this.
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ah It's cool. Everyone has the right to feel differently about different things. But you did ask if we thought you were being overly sensitive. Naturally the response will be different from person to person. Sometimes people have negative association with words. Like I can't stand the word/name Gizmo or my friend dislikes the word "meal", and you don't care for "cancer."
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@InkyMilk - no problem :) we all have to ask questions otherwise this forum would be rather quiet
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ah It's cool. Everyone has the right to feel differently about different things. But you did ask if we thought you were being overly sensitive. Naturally the response will be different from person to person. Sometimes people have negative association with words. Like I can't stand the word/name Gizmo or my friend dislikes the word "meal", and you don't care for "cancer."
Actually, I asked if I was maybe not interpreting the word correctly, not if I thought other people think I'm oversensitive or not. I said, 'maybe I'm being oversensitive', which to me, isn't an invitation for other people to give me their opinion on it. All I wanted to know was where the term came from and why people did or didn't think it was appropriate. I'm glad for hathorcat's post since I can now see the word in a bit of a different context than what I originally thought and it makes a little more sense, and I'm also glad I can use the term age spots instead to mean the exact same thing in a way that, to me, doesn't feel like it's trivializing a serious and deadly disease.
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No worries InkyMilk - it is always good to ask questions and find out more about terms and such. I admit that until this thread I never gave the term much thought.
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Different people different interpretations. :)
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...I guess I'd rather not have something so depressing associated with ponies. ...
I think that's a really good reason.
@InkyMilk - You're not alone, and I've definitely seen people mention being uncomfortable with it before, so you're not the first, either.
Like I said, it doesn't really bother me anymore, but that probably wouldn't be the case if I actually found out I had cancer. I've been aware of the other uses for the word long before I became a member here, so it's not ignorance that made me shy away from the way it was trivially thrown around here, either. It's since become a part of my pony vocabulary, but I did feel bad using it at first. I'll probably keep using it for now, because it is the generally accepted term and I've become used to it, but I do feel bad for those it offends. :( I'm usually not a very PC person, in fact, in a lot of cases I'm actually rather anti-PC, but everybody has their hang-ups and I think personal experiences can play a big part.
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Ive never heard anyone offended by it either. And it's certainly not meant to trivialise the actual disease.
It's not meant as insensitive to anyone that has lost people through cancer.
It's based on the fact that it's nasty, and spreads and cannot be cured, that's it.
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Ive never heard anyone offended by it either. And it's certainly not meant to trivialise the actual disease.
It's not meant as insensitive to anyone that has lost people through cancer.
It's based on the fact that it's nasty, and spreads and cannot be cured, that's it.
Nobody said it was meant to. Intentions aren't always the outcome.
I know I've seen another post about this, but I don't know who started it. I might have to go dig it up if I get some spare time.
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After reading over this thread, actually, I must admit, I'm coming to prefer the term "age marks" myself. It....well, it just sounds better than "pony cancer," to my ears.
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The term never bothered me, having lost a few people in my life to cancer, I just see it as a term or condition. It's an ugly word for an ugly illness but I seriously doubt the term was made to insult or hurt anyone. It's not like we make lightly a very serious illness by tying it to a plastic toy's condition.
If you don't like the word, use a different one... though people may just bring up "cancer" because it's more widely used in this hobby.
I believe one reason cancer was used to describe an issue with these plastic ponies, is because the word/term fits the issue as some people have pointed out all ready.
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I have always felt like that about the term too; even though the word cancer obviously has different meanings, my mind always goes to the most obvious first. I know a lot of people agree with you!
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I have not really given this much thought, but I can see how this might really bother some and if it does I would think you could just call it something else.
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I never use the term 'pony cancer' as I have always felt the same way as Inky does about it.
I understand the linguistic origins of the phrase are valid, but I cannot help but think of human cancer and then feel the absurdity of the comparison. :huh:
So I use the phrase 'age spots' instead.
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I also think that the term is rather insensitive and iffy, so you are not alone, InkyMilk.
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While ever I've never been directly offended or upset by the term, I admit that when I'm listing eBay auctions I very rarely use the term 'cancer' and go with 'brown spots' instead so people can make their own mind up what these brown spots are. This is partly because I thought age spots were the ones without the dot in the middle and 'cancer' spots were the ones with the dot, but was never sure, so prefer to call it that so I don't inadvertently mislead anyone... but I also guess I don't like to write it out. I can totally understand why someone wouldn't want to see that term used. I just accept it because it makes sense for what it is and I don't put it anywhere near the same league as cancer as a disease in humans, but that's just me, I can definitely see why it would cause someone to think it was iffy or not a great word to use.
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I've never liked the term either - I seem to remember a discussion about it coming up previously in a thread about "unpopular" pony opinions.
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I like the idea of calling it smooze instead, because it's less insensitive sounding and a nerdy pony reference.
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I like the idea of calling it smooze instead, because it's less insensitive sounding and a nerdy pony reference.
Oh man, that is such a cute idea! Haha, I love that, very pony appropriate and still certainly gets the right idea across :)
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I like the idea of calling it smooze instead, because it's less insensitive sounding and a nerdy pony reference.
Oh man, that is such a cute idea! Haha, I love that, very pony appropriate and still certainly gets the right idea across :)
Except that "smooze" is actually used to refer to pindot mold, so that could be kind of misleading if you using it when trying to make sales.
I've actually never been offended by the using the term cancer for ponies...I just never linked it with human cancer. I mean, people's pets and animals get cancer too, not just people.
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I like calling it smooze too! But I normally use brown spots or 'nooooo! nooo!'
I see where you're coming from, InkyMilk.
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Well, it's true to say that these terms were coined in a completely different attitude towards MLP. A lot of people don't know much about the chemical processes that are going on when you clean them - like, what can go wrong when you use zit cream on a stain? Or sunfade the wrong white pony? Or ruin pink hair? Or if you never take the heads off...
Now we know a little more, due to some AWESOME pony people who used MLP in thier technical professions and hobbies, about what happens long-term to this vinyl stuff we love so much.
Using terms like "age spots" are definitely a different kind of thing than "smooze/pindot mold". It depends on if the collector is familiar with the difference between the two, and if that sort of thing matters in their herd. :) And there certainly are things I would agree are age spots and can't be helped, and maybe that's what most "cancer" turns into over 25-30 years. :) The spots that look like dark dark blemishes can somewhat be stopped but then you have that lighter stained spot, but there are less and less "active" ponies the more people find them and clean them up. I haven't seen a pony with "active mold" causing the darker stain in awhile... mostly just the age-spots that come from the stained, "nonactive mold" pony.
So perhaps it's easier to change the definitions a little... but we have to recognize that all sorts of terms have been used in collecting over the last three decades by people who have seen the slow deterioration of ponies overall. :)
So there is room for everyone to love ponies! :D *throws restorable G1s out to anyone who made it through this post*
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I thought that we referred to it as 'cancer' as it's one of the worst things that can happen to a pony, and to call it by a human illness just shows how much affection we have for ponies.
I've never been too put off by the term. My grandmother has lived through skin cancer on her face, and it was pretty much the worst thing we've gone through as a family, but if I let myself be reminded of that situation every time I read the word (especially in regards to toys, and one of my favourite things) well, I'd be a bit of a crying wreck.
I can totally see why some people would be shocked by the term though.
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I absolutely hate the term. Collectors of other toys call it less severe names, like "age spots" or with Strawberry Shortcake it is called VDS (vinyl deterioration spots).
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I thought that we referred to it as 'cancer' as it's one of the worst things that can happen to a pony, and to call it by a human illness just shows how much affection we have for ponies.
^.^ Couldn't have said it better myself.
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I thought that we referred to it as 'cancer' as it's one of the worst things that can happen to a pony, and to call it by a human illness just shows how much affection we have for ponies.
I think that's a great example of what "trivializing" it meant. Putting pony toys on par with human lives. And you're not wrong to think that; it does give people that impression. That's part of what is most bothering others, I think.
I've never been too put off by the term. My grandmother has lived through skin cancer on her face, and it was pretty much the worst thing we've gone through as a family, but if I let myself be reminded of that situation every time I read the word (especially in regards to toys, and one of my favourite things) well, I'd be a bit of a crying wreck.
First of all, I'm glad she was able to pull through. Second of all, I think it's sad that people who are reminded of their personal experiences by it, have to build up a wall in order to participate in something they enjoy and that should be fun (ponies).
I absolutely hate the term. Collectors of other toys call it less severe names, like "age spots" or with Strawberry Shortcake it is called VDS (vinyl deterioration spots).
VDS is the best alternative I've seen yet. The abbreviation is even shorter and easier than the word "cancer", but it's actually much more descriptive for what is really going on.
I think when the condition first started appearing not much was known about it or why it was happening, so the term was chosen as something generic that could cover many causes. But now that it's better understood, it could probably use a better name.
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Cancer has affected my life in the forms of people in my family, and my first pet died of a cancerous growth (I'm not 100% sure if it WAS cancer, but the Vet always called it "cancer" and "cancerous tumours"), but I'm honestly not offended in the slightest by the term, personally, however I know cancer is something which devastates lives and families; I've never had to use any term akin to "Pony cancer" but if I had to, I'd probably use a different, lighter term, just because I don't really want to trigger anyone.
So yeah, personally I have no problem with the term, but won't use the term out of respect.