The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: Stormpony6 on September 09, 2012, 11:42:33 PM
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i saw a recent post about pony flipping and how some people were upset by this. I am curious becuase a fair few of us were not at all upset by this (which i can find understandable) however clicking through ebay just now i saw a very well known custom pony by a very well known community artist that is being sold at an extremely high price and believe me i do expensive ponies but this was a bit................... :shocked:
this pony was sold only fairly recently, i guess it just upsets me when people buy customs then try to sell them for higher amounts than what the original artist sold them for.
PoniesandPetals was brought up in the other post about flipping but i am quite happy to pay more for a pony that someone found and cleaned up to sell on. But does custom flipping upset anyone else? i do realise people run into hard times and have to sell their collection but this seems more like trying to get as much as possible for the custom.
maybe its just me.............
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Once you own a pony custom, it's your's to do with what you want. Yeah, it's kinda sad to see a nice custom being flipped when you are one of the people who wanted it.
Once the Artist sells the custom, they loose all control over what happens to it after the initial sale. There really isn't anything anyone can do to prevent a flip but to maybe take mental note of those being found to do this on a constant basis and just avoid them as buyers/sellers in the future.
I'm not really up and up on customs, but I get the feeling most customs on the Arena are done between friends and other customizers, haven't really noticed a lot of customs being sold directly, or I may not be paying attention. :cool:
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well i think flipping is ok, but
i think when it comes to customs it can be disrespectfull to the original artist,
ive got some g1's im waiting to restore, then will be flipping them, heck thats why i brought them in the first place.
as a customizer id be pritty cut up if i happend upone one of my customs beeing sold for a higer price than what i sold it for, as i have a hard enough time trying to sell my customs as it it.
so yeah id be up set if i seen one sold for 3 times the price i sold it for.
but at the end of the day, once you sell something, you relinquish all ownership of it , and thus all say over what happens to it.
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I hope that the person selling the custom has given credit to the artist in her listing, because if she hasnt then that is a big no-no! :yikes: I think most of us agree that buying ponies to clean up and then resell is fine, but buying a custom and selling it quickly for a lot more than the person paid the artist is not going to go down well. Yes they paid for it, and so its theirs to do with as they like, but things like this are still not going to sit right with a lot of the community.
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as a customizer id be pritty cut up if i happend upone one of my customs beeing sold for a higer price than what i sold it for, as i have a hard enough time trying to sell my customs as it it.
so yeah id be up set if i seen one sold for 3 times the price i sold it for.
but at the end of the day, once you sell something, you relinquish all ownership of it , and thus all say over what happens to it.
Once the pony is out of my hands, then it's a done deal. It iis no longer mine. If they resell it later on for more than I charged them, that is their right. I have a custom I am mailing out today of Fry from Futurama. I charged my customer $50 for it. It's been reblogged in its WIP state by comedy central and has gained a bit of attention. I bet I could easily sell it for more than that. SHould my customer decide to sell it, I bet they won't have a problem. But I committed to to work for a set price, and I am morally obligated to hold to that.
In short, if you think your work is worth more, then charge people more money for it. Don't cry because they turn around and sell it for more money than you are comfortable or confidant in asking for. If that happens, just look on the bright side. You have probably been under charging, so up your prices!
It's polite to ask the customizer if they would like the opportunity to buy the custom back, but I do not expect it. After all, it isn't my pony anymore. And if I sold it for $50 and they want to sell it back to me for $100, then that is their right and I can either pay the money, or let them sell it elsewhere.
I honestly feel like the people who get upset over this sort of thing just don't have a really good grasp on how the market works. If you are going to sell an item, you need to be willing to accept everything that comes along with making the sale, and that includes fully relinquishing any claim to ownership whatsoever, and giving up any sense of entitlement when it comes to that particular work.
Post Merge: September 10, 2012, 05:08:43 AM
Adited to add, in the OP, is the auction in question the Marie Antoinette pony by PoniesYeah?
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Re: the poniesyeah custom- I am assuming the starting price is probably what she paid for it. I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I liked the subject matter more.
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I don't mind because usually there is no guarantee they can make a profit flipping. I had that ponies and petals person buy a lot of ponies from me and resell them right away. It was kind of disturbing to see that they described them as in much better condition then they actually were. I could still see some of the same flaws they still had when they were listed and they were not mentioned. I just didn't want anyone to be disappointed. However, I calculated how much they sold them for and they actually lost money on the ones they bought from me. It must have been a slow bidding week. They take their chances trying to flip when they start the price that low.
In the case of this custom one, it is slightly different because the artist created the pony. So hopefully the artist will not be too upset that this person is selling the custom and trying to make a profit.
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There are some people who consistently resell customs that they've gotten either in trades or as gifts or sometimes from commissions, etc. But usually the ones I see they are selling them for less than what they're worth, and that's the part that really bothers me. So like a pony that was made as a gift gets thrown up on ebay with a stating bid of $4.99, and sells for that. As a customizer that would upset me, because I hate the idea of someone else devaluing my work to that degree.
True, once the pony leaves my hands it's not my say, but it's just completely disrespectful. I think if you're selling a custom by another artist you should either try to sell it for what you paid, as that is a price the artist established as fair, or if you don't have a price contact the artist and ask them what they think a fair price would be or look at comparable customs.
Just my $0.02 as someone who has seen a lot of customs sold at insultingly low prices. I'd much rather people charge more - art appreciates in value, after all!
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I personally find it disrespectful to flip customs like that... If someone commissions me for a pony I would hope that it would be to give it a forever home, not to just turn around and sell it. I understand if they eventually have to sell because of unforeseen reasons, but I know I for one would NEVER make a custom for someone that was known to just turn around and sell the custom, I don't do the work for someone else to make money off of it.
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I don't get what the big deal is about flipping. I would never do it with a custom pony because I feel it would be rude. But if you find a regular pony in need of some TLC, then go at it.
I've done it with ponies I've found. I was upfront about restoring them when I did sell them, just so people would know.
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Personally, I don't mind if people resell the ones I make, especially if they were just ponies I customized ahead of time and sold on eBay or something. I'm glad to get the work from time to time because it helps keep my kid in diapers XD
I understand why some people would be put off by it though, specifically the artists kind enough to undersell themselves and offer fixed-rate commissions... only for their work to be immediately resold at auction. I feel like those slots are better saved for serious collectors who would cherish the artwork instead of trying to make a profit off it.
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I am going to say as hard as the economy is, I can't hold pony flipping against anyone if it makes them some money, once you sell someone something they own it and they can do what ever they want with it, it is disrespectful to act like you still own it and get mad at them for making a buck.
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Sadly, the custom thing is something that's frowned upon...but I don't think there's anything you can do about it.
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I don't consider restoring a pony and selling the efforts of your work as flipping. Not everyone can restore a pony and there are tons of bait ponies out there that need help! To me, flipping would mean buying or getting something and not putting work into it at all.
I'm a sentimental person. If I were to own a custom pony, I would feel it was made especially for me and it would take something like a huge emergency vet bill or a really serious life issue to make me even consider selling it. I wouldn't say I'd never sell, just that it would take a heck of a real life issue to make me consider it an option.
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Hi there.
It's killing me to know... what custom we sold?
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I think that beautiful Marie Antoniette pony is the one in question. I think they are saying whoever commissioned you is the one selling. I could be wrong.
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Hmmm, not exactly sure how to put this. I've never bought a custom, but if I was to buy one I would consider it mine. If the time came to part with it, and I could get more money than what I paid for it I would. It might be polite to contact the artists, but I wouldn't feel obligated to do such a thing. I also would find it a bit rude if they had a fit about me selling it. If they were to tell me upon buying from them they didn't want me to sell it. I just wouldn't buy from that person. Sometimes things come up and people need money. I've personally never had to sell any artsie thing I've bought from someone, but you just never know.
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Hi there.
It's killing me to know... what custom we sold?
Your Marie Antoinette. Do an ebay search for Custom My Little Pony, then sort the prices highest to lowest and she should show up pretty quick for about $400 so far. No bids when last I looked.
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oh hell... It sucks so see her being resold so soon. But its certainly not the first time it's happen. and wont be the last.
The funny thing is, when I see one of my pieces go up for sale... I want so bad to buy it back. but I can never afford myself. And that Ladies-to-the-Gs is Irony.
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I don't consider custom flipping bad at all. If someone bought something that I made (whether it was a custom pony or some other craft item) and then flipped for 5x what they paid for it I would be happy for them.
If they get more than what I got for it, obviously they have better advertising skills.
Also, many people here consider custom ponies "art" (and they are obviously). This is what you do in the art world and also, many people buy art pieces for the pure reason of hoping it gains value.
Art is flipped constantly and I don't know why custom ponies should be in any other category other than an item that someone owns.
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Personally, I would never "flip" a custom. If I buy a custom, it is because I love it and want it. If sometime in the future I need to sell it for whatever reason, I don't see anything wrong with that and I don't see anything wrong with selling it for a price you feel it is worth. But flipping right away just wouldn't sit right with me unless it was an emergency, but that is just me.
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oh hell... It sucks so see her being resold so soon. But its certainly not the first time it's happen. and wont be the last.
The funny thing is, when I see one of my pieces go up for sale... I want so bad to buy it back. but I can never afford myself. And that Ladies-to-the-Gs is Irony.
Do you mind indulging our curiosity in how much she originally cost?
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Personally, I would never "flip" a custom. If I buy a custom, it is because I love it and want it. If sometime in the future I need to sell it for whatever reason, I don't see anything wrong with that and I don't see anything wrong with selling it for a price you feel it is worth. But flipping right away just wouldn't sit right with me unless it was an emergency, but that is just me.
Like I said I don't know the full situation, but in their description on the bottom I do believe it was mentioned that they had to sell it for some reason. I'm assuming they need money, and they hoped that pony would bring more than other things they have?
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That could be the case. I once had to sell something right after I bought it due to a financial issue that came up. It was so sad especially because I had saved up for it.
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I hope I didn't miss in the posts I scanned but to me flipping is purchasing with the sole intent of making a profit when reselling in the future. I'm not against making a profit either but for me the idea of "flipping" is all about the intentions! Reminds of "House Flipping" during the housing boom.
That said, not for or against any type of flipping. To each his/her own!
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I hope I didn't miss in the posts I scanned but to me flipping is purchasing with the sole intent of making a profit when reselling in the future. I'm not against making a profit either but for me the idea of "flipping" is all about the intentions! Reminds of "House Flipping" during the housing boom.
That said, not for or against any type of flipping. To each his/her own!
Yeah, I think the general definition for what people are talking about here is that "flipping" equals buying something with the intent to sell it.
I don't understand why this is such a hot topic and why it creates so much controversy on this particular forum. A custom pony is no different than a regular pony gift or not.
The only time I would get annoyed at flipping, is if someone joined a swap for the pure intention of making money on it. So that would mean they skimped on their side of the swap. That's the only thing that I would think would be kind of low. Of course, if they just sold off their side of the swap cause they ended up not wanting it that's another story.
Other than that scenario (which I don't think has ever happened - At least, I've never seen a thread about it) people should realize there is nothing wrong with flipping. I can say if someone told me I wasn't allowed to sell something that I purchased from them I wouldn't hesitate to make a complaint.
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Well I don't think I'd ever 'flip' a custom simply because of what that pony would mean to me. I'd feel like, as it was made especially for me, that it would somehow be a gift even if I'd paid for it. I also get sentimental and attached to things like that ;) That's just me and my own personal view on it. While ever it is sad to see something sold so quickly after being purchased, alas it is up to the items new owner what they do with it.
As for flipping regular ponies (sorry to go off topic but I missed out on posting in the other 'flipping' thread - and I promise to keep this brief and civil) I really don't see a problem AT ALL with doing this. I flip ponies. I buy lots from ebay where I have no itention to keep any of them because this is the only way I can fund my very expensive collecting hobby. I buy the ponies, clean them, spend loads of time on them and resell them. I start the majority of my auctions low and let bidders bid what they will for them but on the occasion I put the price higher than my usual £0.99-£5 start price then that's my prerogative. Also, I buy from Taobao for myself and often buy one or two extras of a pony to resell to, again, fund my own collecting. Without flipping I would not be able to collect to the extent that I want to and do now. /end rant (apologies again for the slightly OT rant, but it was bothering me after reading the other thread) xxxx
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The only time I would get annoyed at flipping, is if someone joined a swap for the pure intention of making money on it. So that would mean they skimped on their side of the swap. That's the only thing that I would think would be kind of low. Of course, if they just sold off their side of the swap cause they ended up not wanting it that's another story.
Other than that scenario (which I don't think has ever happened - At least, I've never seen a thread about it)
This has happened, actually. There was someone who was selling customs they recieved in swaps when they had never sent their side and stopped communicating with the host. I think it happened several times with this person, but because the swaps all started within a similar timeframe, there was no way for the swap hosts to know that this person was super shady because they hadn't gotten feedback on it yet. It was a disaster.
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The only time I would get annoyed at flipping, is if someone joined a swap for the pure intention of making money on it. So that would mean they skimped on their side of the swap. That's the only thing that I would think would be kind of low. Of course, if they just sold off their side of the swap cause they ended up not wanting it that's another story.
Other than that scenario (which I don't think has ever happened - At least, I've never seen a thread about it)
This has happened, actually. There was someone who was selling customs they recieved in swaps when they had never sent their side and stopped communicating with the host. I think it happened several times with this person, but because the swaps all started within a similar timeframe, there was no way for the swap hosts to know that this person was super shady because they hadn't gotten feedback on it yet. It was a disaster.
WOW- that is seriously... wow.
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When I feel the need to sell a pony I comissioned someone to do I usually sell them for the same prize I got it at.
I think it's common courtesy to ask the maker first if they want to buy it back too, but after that it's yours to do whatever you want with.
Still. I HATE flipping :(
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I think its completely disrespectful to on sell a custom for a lot more than what you brought it for. Fair enough if you have a low reserve and the auction went really high but to intentionally set out to make a profit isn't right.
With that being said I strongly believe what goes around comes around (karma) so it will sort itself out in the end.
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I'd be devistated if someone listed one of my customs for more than what they paid me for on ebay. I sell them for very reasonable prices to other collectors that I hope will enjoy and keep them. But yeah, they bought it so they can do what they want with them...
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The only time I would get annoyed at flipping, is if someone joined a swap for the pure intention of making money on it. So that would mean they skimped on their side of the swap. That's the only thing that I would think would be kind of low. Of course, if they just sold off their side of the swap cause they ended up not wanting it that's another story.
Other than that scenario (which I don't think has ever happened - At least, I've never seen a thread about it)
This has happened, actually. There was someone who was selling customs they recieved in swaps when they had never sent their side and stopped communicating with the host. I think it happened several times with this person, but because the swaps all started within a similar timeframe, there was no way for the swap hosts to know that this person was super shady because they hadn't gotten feedback on it yet. It was a disaster.
Well, that's just plain scamming. I was more talking about someone who joins a swap and skimps or something so they don't get in any kind of trouble but can make money off what they got.
So while they probably wouldn't be called out as a scammer, it's a pretty low thing to do as when you join a swap you aren't supposed to try and make money on it. It was just a random though on a way someone could flip a pony where it's definitely not right.
Things where people don't pay for a pony that they bought, don't send out their side of the swaps or whatever are not flipping. It's scamming.
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While I completely understand the emotional attachment, especially if a commission was made specifically for you, I don't have a problem with people re-selling custom art. If someone re-sells a custom I've made and makes more money from it? That's awesome! It means my work is appreciated, first by the original owner who didn't throw it away and then by the next owner, who was willing to pay that much for it. While I wouldn't mind some credit, I certainly don't expect to be asked for permission to sell it.
Do I think it's rude to sell a swap pony right away? Hell yes. That was a gift, not a purchase. But I also understand that events in the future may make it necessary. I would rather see someone sell a pony instead of starve or delay medical treatment. Things are great to have but it's the quality of your life that's more important and the quantity of things owned really doesn't change that.
Signing up for a swap with no intention of sending a pony? :enraged: That's outright theft and is another topic altogether.
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This is one of the reasons I hesitate to ever sale any ponies I customize. It's unfair to those who would appreciate it.
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I'm sorry but I don't understand what the big deal is.
If you buy something in the end it's your to do whatever you want with. It's no diffident than owning a painting or any other piece of art. Some times you grow tired of it or it's time to let it go.
I'd rather they sell it than toss it at least someone else gets to appreciate it.
To each their own.
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I have received several customs in swaps, and would NEVER consider selling them. Ever. In fact, I'd sell my wingers before I sold a gift. If I went out of my way to create something special for my swap partner, I'd be really hurt and angry that they would sell it.
If I purchased a custom from someone, I'd probably offer the customizer first dibs to buy it back. Honestly, I don't think I'd sell one unless my kids needed something important like food or shelter.
Pony flipping doesn't bother me at all otherwise. I've bought ponies with the intention of selling them before, and don't feel bad about it:)
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I would never sell a custom I was given, but I wouldn't have a problem with someone selling one of mine if they were having to raise money for something important and asked me about it. I think someone flipping a custom they bought from me doesn't bother me. It's not a personal thing I gave them and it's kind of flattering to think of 2 people wanting a custom I did XD. I wouldn't flip someone else's though.
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I would never sell a custom I was given, but I wouldn't have a problem with someone selling one of mine if they were having to raise money for something important and asked me about it. I think someone flipping a custom they bought from me doesn't bother me. It's not a personal thing I gave them and it's kind of flattering to think of 2 people wanting a custom I did XD. I wouldn't flip someone else's though.
It's hard isn't it? I actually feel somewhat of the same way. I could care less if it's something that I made but yes, it would be hard if it's something that I got in a custom swap. But only because I can get attached to items sometimes. I don't think it makes me pious or anything.
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I suppose a lot of what I have to say has been said before- but I agree that selling a gift or a swap is a little tacky- that said a friend of mine recently put a bunch of stuff for sale- including some gifts I had given to her and made for her- I felt a little bad but she is has been laid off for a while now and has a new baby- how on earth can I begrudge her trying to earn a few very needed dollars? She needs diapers more than dolls alas- so I got over it.
Flipping ponies solely for profit (particularly if someone did a trade just to get a custom to sell) is certainly not cool- but how often does that happen?
If someone holds themselves out as an artist and sells commissions or works that they have done- how are they any different than any other kind of artist? I do buy art from time to time and although I have never sold any of the pieces I have purchased- it is not because I think selling art I have bought is wrong- it is because I only buy art when I really love it.
I would hope that if an artist had strong feelings about whether their art should ever be re-sold - she would say so when the item was purchased...
I understand an artist getting attached to their art- all art is a labor of love. However, the idea that re-selling art is a bad thing seems a strange concept. I have a few friends that actually do try and make art a part of their livelihood (not easy)- and I know they get attached to each and every one of their pieces- but how strange would it be if they conditioned every sale on the understanding that the piece would never be re-sold?
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haha oh lordy, wrong thread!
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I suppose a lot of what I have to say has been said before- but I agree that selling a gift or a swap is a little tacky- that said a friend of mine recently put a bunch of stuff for sale- including some gifts I had given to her and made for her- I felt a little bad but she is has been laid off for a while now and has a new baby- how on earth can I begrudge her trying to earn a few very needed dollars? She needs diapers more than dolls alas- so I got over it.
You think that's bad? I had a relative RETURN a gift to me. It was a book. They read it, then sent it back to me. lol. I was very offended at first but then like you, got over it.
To tell you the truth, I would have rather had her sell it. I mean, it was a "gift" I wanted her to enjoy it or profit from it.
But anyways, I've seen relatives sell gifts that I've given them or re-gift them. Every Christmas I get a box of re-gifted items. It's kind of amusing :-) Sometimes you give a gift and the person loves it and sometimes it's not so useful. I've been on both sides of the coin so I understand that it's nothing to get offended about.
Plus, I can sometimes be random. There are some items I will always love. But I've literally asked for a gift and then can't stand the item after a few months. Sometimes your mind just changes.
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Personally I'm okay if someone decides to sell something I made, but yeah, if they say buy something from me for 50 and I find them posting it for 100 a week later? Yeah, thats lame. I didn't sell it to them on consignment, ya know? And if it was a swap and someone sold it right away, thats another story. The reason to be in a swap is to make something for someone and get something for you in return, not OH MAN FREE CUSTOM LET ME SELL IT. No. no no no.
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I have never sold any of my work. I have in point made customs off of commissions. In all honesty if someone gave me a gift I would feel it would be wrong of me to sell it. If I did decide on selling something (which I usually don't) I would wait a long time before selling a custom gift. I agree its in poor taste for someone to quickly sell a gift a customizer made. I have had this happen to me once that I can think of that's why this is a touchy subject to me. :/
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IMPORTANT: Just wanted to let everyone know that the ebay seller who sold PoniesYeah custom has been found out to be a long-time scammer, Sayuri (also known as MANY other names and IDs over the years).
http://mlparena.com/mlp/index.php/topic,311060.0.html
See page 6 where it's discovered that proudpommom on ebay is Sayuri, and you can find more information and links about this person.
While this has nothing to do with this current debate of pony-flipping, I think it's important to keep tabs on what these scammers are up to these days so we can avoid doing business with them.