I live in the middle of an area (Silicon Valley) where IP is very crucial to many businesses here.
I won't buy from Taobao since I don't know where the merchandise comes from. I just don't feel right about it.
QuoteI won't buy from Taobao since I don't know where the merchandise comes from. I just don't feel right about it.
I'm in the same mindset. And honestly I don't think there could be any explanation or outcome that would make me want to buy from there. Stolen by poor factory workers, hoarded by higher ups, freely given out as rejects, someone's little side project... no matter how they get there, I'm just not inclined to buy from taobao.
I don't consider it as stealing. Hasbro sells millions of toys everyday so that won't get any poorer by loosing those maybe 500 ponies that leak out somehow.
I don't consider it as stealing. Hasbro sells millions of toys everyday so that won't get any poorer by loosing those maybe 500 ponies that leak out somehow.
I'm sorry but this kind of bothers me. Just because Hasbro is doing well (at least i assume Hasbro is doing well) doesn't make it perfectly fine to just take their stuff. I don't get why people think that as soon as you are dealing with a big company it is no longer theft. Not to mention that not everyone working at this company is some big money maker. Seriously, i don't care if people buy stuff from taobao but stuff like this just sounds like excuses to me. Again, you wouldn't just steal a pony from a store and say "well Hasbro makes a lot of money anyway!".
To be honest though, Hasbro would not have made money out of these rejects; they are worthless to them. It is not quite the same as stealing a pony from a store.
I don't consider it as stealing. Hasbro sells millions of toys everyday so that won't get any poorer by loosing those maybe 500 ponies that leak out somehow.
I'm sorry but this kind of bothers me. Just because Hasbro is doing well (at least i assume Hasbro is doing well) doesn't make it perfectly fine to just take their stuff. I don't get why people think that as soon as you are dealing with a big company it is no longer theft. Not to mention that not everyone working at this company is some big money maker. Seriously, i don't care if people buy stuff from taobao but stuff like this just sounds like excuses to me. Again, you wouldn't just steal a pony from a store and say "well Hasbro makes a lot of money anyway!".
I feel a little guilty, and honestly after reading these threads I probably wouldn't buy pre-releases from TaoBao or others again. Like, I get that Chinese factory conditions are horrible, but does that justify stealing from them? It's almost unfair to the other workers who are being treated just as poorly, but don't resort to making money on the side via grey-market merchandise. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I wonder though, how do opponents of TaoBao feel about factory rejects and variants? I mean ponies that were obviously test runs (Twilight with Rarity's symbols and the like) or errors? To me, that's no worse than a burger restaurant giving away its "expired" burgers instead of wasting them, and those ponies would likely just end up in the trash anyways. Buying them would not discourage anyone from spending money on official Hasbro products, I don't think.
The more I think about it though, the more I realize the :muffin: Ponies at least all seemed to have factory flaws (symbol rubs, missing plugs, etc). I think it's possible that they might have been rejects from the assembly lines or something, but we'll never know for sure. I don't think I would feel guilty about having her though because if she's released, I'd get her without errors (and accessories), and if she ISN'T released, well, obviously that isn't going to cut into Hasbro's :muffin: Pony sales. :PI feel a little guilty, and honestly after reading these threads I probably wouldn't buy pre-releases from TaoBao or others again. Like, I get that Chinese factory conditions are horrible, but does that justify stealing from them? It's almost unfair to the other workers who are being treated just as poorly, but don't resort to making money on the side via grey-market merchandise. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I wonder though, how do opponents of TaoBao feel about factory rejects and variants? I mean ponies that were obviously test runs (Twilight with Rarity's symbols and the like) or errors? To me, that's no worse than a burger restaurant giving away its "expired" burgers instead of wasting them, and those ponies would likely just end up in the trash anyways. Buying them would not discourage anyone from spending money on official Hasbro products, I don't think.
This pretty much sums up my feelings. :unsure:
I felt pretty guilty owning :muffin: Pony, but now that I don't have her I have mixed feelings of "What if she's never released" and then of course "Well, if there is then I'd have no problem buying her in stores"..
Worst case scenario, she isn't and I have to commission a custom. That won't be an issue considering how many amazing artists (like the very person I am quoting! :heart: ) are willing to make great customs for commissions. That way, I could also get her made to my own specifications. :) At least I know those who currently own any of them do not feel guilty themselves and are most likely very, very glad to have her. However, I don't see myself ordering from Taobao again unless my feelings somehow magically change regarding the entire issue itself.
I purchased a few international exclusives from a Taobao group order here at the Arena, and I don't feel bad about it at all. Sorry Hasbro, but why can't you release Sky Wishes and Star Swirl in the United States?? I contemplated buying from Taobao, but decided against it...
Also agreeing with this. I'd much rather just wait it out and get them when they're released. And if they're never released, well, shame, but it's nothing that really bothers me.QuoteI won't buy from Taobao since I don't know where the merchandise comes from. I just don't feel right about it.
I'm in the same mindset. And honestly I don't think there could be any explanation or outcome that would make me want to buy from there. Stolen by poor factory workers, hoarded by higher ups, freely given out as rejects, someone's little side project... no matter how they get there, I'm just not inclined to buy from taobao.
This. To me everything about Taobao seems dodgy. I would much rather own official, Hasbro produced and packaged ponies, if only because I want the line to continue. I believe in supporting things I'm fond of, and dealing under the table just to get a pony with different coloured hair doesn't sit right with me. But then I was never one for pirated movies, or downloaded music either.
I don't bother thinking about the ethical issues, because in reality, if I started doing that-- I probably wouldn't even buy directly from the store and only from second hand from those who were discarding them-- aka thrift store, fleamarket, etc etc. (And I'd apply it to most purchases, and I'd go on a handmade/local spree-- if I really started letting ethical issues bug me).
And further more, we don't even know how these ponies are obtained. Period. It is a grey area issue. We don't know if someone is taking them illegally, we don't know who that person is (some poor underpaid worker, some management person-- which btw , I believe its the latter), if they are thrown away and someone is taking them out of the garbage, or if are considered samples and free for people to take, ETC ETC ETC.
While my company makes another product, we get tons of samples from the factory, and as workers we can take it all home-- otherwise it goes into the trash. And I have been the person who throws the samples in the trash... and it's nauseating to see a large bin of product thrown out, when 99% of it has no flaws. I do have permission to take it home for my own use, but I don't have permission to resell it.
So whatever people think, the fact is we just don't know.
With not knowing, it is a bit easier to not feel guilty. And I feel no guilt for any taobao purchase I have made for myself, or on the behalf of others.
One last edit: All of the taobao ponies I own, are not released. If they are ever released, I would buy them in a proper way-- because that is how I feel about it, and that's how I do things with other hobbies. I am happy to support Hasbro.
Every spring, China's cities are plunged into chaos as 130 million migrant workers travel back to their home villages for the New Year's holiday. This mass exodus is the world's largest human migration, an epic spectacle that exposes a nation tragically caught between its rural past and industrial future.
[/size]Working over several years in classic cinéma vérité (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cin%C3%A9ma_v%C3%A9rit%C3%A9) style, director Lixin Fan travelled with one couple who have embarked on this annual trek for almost two decades. Like many of China's rural poor, the Zhangs have left their native village of Huilong in Sichuan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichuan) province and their newborn daughter to find work in Guangzhou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou) in a garment factory for 16 years and see her only once a year during the Spring Festival (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Festival). Their daughter Qin, now a restless and rebellious teenager- bitterly resents her parents' absence and longs for her own freedom away from school and her rural hometown, much to the dismay of her parents. She eventually leaves school, against the wishes of her parents, to work in the city. Emotionally charged and starkly beautiful, Last Train Home examines one fractured family to shed light on the human cost of China's ascendence as an economic superpower.
I feel a little guilty, and honestly after reading these threads I probably wouldn't buy pre-releases from TaoBao or others again. Like, I get that Chinese factory conditions are horrible, but does that justify stealing from them? It's almost unfair to the other workers who are being treated just as poorly, but don't resort to making money on the side via grey-market merchandise. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I wonder though, how do opponents of TaoBao feel about factory rejects and variants? I mean ponies that were obviously test runs (Twilight with Rarity's symbols and the like) or errors? To me, that's no worse than a burger restaurant giving away its "expired" burgers instead of wasting them, and those ponies would likely just end up in the trash anyways. Buying them would not discourage anyone from spending money on official Hasbro products, I don't think.
This pretty much sums up my feelings. :unsure:
I felt pretty guilty owning :muffin: Pony, but now that I don't have her I have mixed feelings of "What if she's never released" and then of course "Well, if there is then I'd have no problem buying her in stores"..
Worst case scenario, she isn't and I have to commission a custom. That won't be an issue considering how many amazing artists (like the very person I am quoting! :heart: ) are willing to make great customs for commissions. That way, I could also get her made to my own specifications. :) At least I know those who currently own any of them do not feel guilty themselves and are most likely very, very glad to have her. However, I don't see myself ordering from Taobao again unless my feelings somehow magically change regarding the entire issue itself.
Chi,
I am having a very difficult time accepting this "guilt" you are feeling. I find it odd that any member would publicly post how easy it is to buy from TaoBao (which it is absolutely not, and not to mention how many of us searched painfully on our own time and suffered losses to order and even try and help out the community), order enough of a controversial pony (which, you are no fool - we all knew the chance she would be truly released was slim) to make a cool $900 (at least), and then turn around and say you feel bad about it. I have watched and read a lot of your posts and they are shocking to say the least.
I think it was a complete slap in the face to those in the community who poured a lot of time and money and personal risk into figuring out how to buy these items from overseas sellers to even post the info on how to do it. Buying from Taobao through agents is a risk - paypal or no paypal. Not a risk for inexperienced buyers to take. Not that they can't, but I would have felt horrible right then and there for even posting how to do it. I mean, my almost 2-year-old knows how to operate my hairdryer and the general direction to point the dryer to dry his hair, but I would never actually let him do it for fear that he could burn himself or set our house on fire. I care enough to keep it away from him.
Sadly, if sellers or buyers would just lay low and not say anything, EVERYONE would have benefited from it - people would still have been running group orders, overseas sellers would still be able to sell, and Hasbro would be none the wiser.
So, as for the topic, do I feel bad? NO. Not now, not ever. Does Hasbro feel bad for selling My Little Pony toys (that they know are partially directed at adult fans with more discretionary income than a small child) that cost them around 10 cents to manufacture for $5 - 20 dollars? I bet not in a million years.
Everything is based on supply and demand.
I truly feel sorry for all the collectors who spent a lot of time and energy in teaching themselves how to order from Taobao, who have and would have ordered for other members. Because now, they will likely never get their hands on a :muffin: Pony (because a lot of them weren't awake for your post about it at 3AM), and now Hasbro won't be issuing any additional.