The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Bunny-san on March 02, 2012, 12:25:18 PM

Title: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Bunny-san on March 02, 2012, 12:25:18 PM: So.....With all this swirling STUFF with :muffin: Pony (I don't care if you're for or against it, that is NOT what this topic is about.) I am kind of hesitant about this new episode with Fluttershy. Particularly after watching the preview (which usually I don't do), I'm just thinking to myself, Oh here we go again. It's going to be ANOTHER Over a Barrel, or Last Roundup, where everyone's going to find something to get all pissy and upset and offended over. I can kind of see it coming, and I REALLY don't want it to. A reappearance of Fluttershy the Brute, and thanks to Mr.Centuar she's going to be pushy and nasty and rude (mistaking it for being "assertive")to everyone and maybe to the WRONG pony (dear god lest it be :muffin: Pony @[email protected] firestorm....) and a lesson about beng able to stand up for yourself and being assertive in a positive manner will be lost, just like the messages of Over a Barrel and Last Roundup were lost because of all the negativity surrounding them.

I'm kind of sad because I've never felt this way about watching Friendship is Magic before--totally hesitantant worried about just exactly what I'll be seeing. Before the whole :muffin: Pony scandal, I was EVERY Saturday like a little kid again with my Golden Grahams in my jammies in front of the TV with my hubby and my little boy, totally thrilled to be watching cartoons. And for the first time, tomorrow, I'm kinda just..not really wanting to watch. Especially because I LOVE. I mean LOVE LOVE LOVE Fluttershy, and I feel almost like "jeeze! Here we go again, Hasbro messing with my favorite characters! What are they going to DO to her?" I mean, I'm all for standing up for yourself and being assertive, but I loved how sweet and shy Fluttershy was. I'm not sure how this episode will change her character.

So, if you've read this far, I appreciate it. Does this bother anyone else or am I just being silly? ._.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: OctoberFlash on March 02, 2012, 12:37:58 PM: At first all of this stuff over people freaking out about the show really creeped me out, but then I decided "haters gonna hate" and moved on. xD If people end up not liking it or over-analyzing it or making a big deal about it, that's their problem. x3

I think this episode will end up with the message being "being assertive is okay, but being a big huge pushy bossy meanie isn't". or something. x3 Fluttershy will end up being "assertive" towards someone and then find out she really hurt them, apologize, they both make up and Fluttershy learns that being mean is not okay? or something? ^^

Either way, I think they'll find a way to make it okay. c: some people manage to find a way to hate on every single episode, whether it's complaining about the animation or saying the voice acting isn't good enough or the writing was bad and so on. It happened with every new episode; it just wasn't until The Last Roundup that people got REALLY vocal about it.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Zero on March 02, 2012, 12:46:13 PM: The trouble with todays generation is...the mothers are too protective and far too PC. YOu cant say or do certina things not beacuse its wrong, but beacuse its not safe.
This whole thing with :muffin: Pony is beacuse someone got offened by a 10 second section of 1 episode and then used the power of the interwebs to compailn about it, so Hasbro caved and edited it and even planed on changing the character. the Derp term had been around LONG befor FIM just now its been seen.
This next ep is showing what standing up for your self can do, theres a hint a later episode is set after this one. I personaly dont see anything wrong with that Idea
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 02, 2012, 01:12:06 PM: I haven't watched the preview since I'd rather just see the whole thing tomorrow, but please don't call people who disagree with something you like "haters". I've criticized things in FiM before, but I still like the show a lot. If something that bothers other doesn't bother you, that's great, but please don't act like others' feelings or opinions are not legitimate by calling them overreactions.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: OctoberFlash on March 02, 2012, 01:16:12 PM: Quote from: Elisto on March 02, 2012, 01:12:06 PM
I haven't watched the preview since I'd rather just see the whole thing tomorrow, but please don't call people who disagree with something you like "haters". I've criticized things in FiM before, but I still like the show a lot, and simply saying it's OK to ignore everyone you disagree with is not cool. If something that bothers other doesn't bother you, that's great, but please don't act like others' feelings or opinions are not legitimate by calling them overreactions.

Oh, goodness, did I come off this way? I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that at all. D: I just meant that I'm not going to let other people's opinions get in the way of me liking the show, it's okay if they disagree with me but I'm not going to fight with them about it, fighting won't get me anywhere. I never meant that their opinions didn't count or anything. Sorry D:
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 02, 2012, 01:17:12 PM: Yeah, I edited my post a bit, but it looks like you quoted me before I did!

I mean, by all means, I get it, and it's great to be able to just ignore the drama you'd rather have no part it. Maybe I just misunderstood.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: OctoberFlash on March 02, 2012, 01:18:34 PM: Ah! Sorry ^^;
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 02, 2012, 01:19:40 PM: No, no, please, I'm sorry!
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: OctoberFlash on March 02, 2012, 01:23:40 PM: it's okay :) everyone can get confused reading stuff over the internet sometimes, it looks like we confused each other xD
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: hyenacub on March 02, 2012, 01:33:37 PM: About :muffin: Pony...I think thst the change opened a huger can of worms than the original. (I thought the first voice was freaking adorable, personally.) I think that when a mistake like that is made, it's best not to go back and try to fix it because...it usually makes things worse. :sigh: People. I wish they could all chill out lol

But I second those who say don't worry about the opinions of others. They have nothing to do with you persoinally enjoying the show. C:

I totally know what you mean about messing up a favorite character though. I could rant and rave about the fourth season of ThunderCats (the 80s version) all day. XD
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Bunny-san on March 02, 2012, 01:43:27 PM: Well, to me they did sort of mess up by trying to "fix" what they did with :muffin: Pony. The character herself was cute. My fear is that with this next episode is that something similar will happen where they'll take a perfectly cute character and take her in a direction that will upset people. My GREATER fear is that hasbro will go so far as to say, "If we can't make a show that doesn't offend people, we WON'T make a show." And I would really hate to see that happen to FIM just for the sake of avoiding offense and preserving "political correctness". A really large chunk of my weekly happy has started to come from FiM, and I would be *incredibly* sad if that happened. I would cry. I know it sounds totally silly and childish, but I would. Because it's just such a darling little show XD I would really be upset if it were to go away for such a stupid reason. ^^;
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 02, 2012, 01:45:25 PM: I doubt that would happen...as you said, there have been plenty of complaints about previous episodes and nothing changed. I'd be upset too, but I really think the whole thing with :muffin: Pony was just a one-time thing.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: ApertureScience on March 02, 2012, 02:07:12 PM: My advice is, don't let what others think get to you. If any part of the community makes a fuss over something that happened in the episode, screw 'em. If anyone complains that there was nothing special about the episode, screw 'em. And besides, even if Fluttershy goes brutish, I'm willing to bet that she will learn her lesson and apologize. She will learn from her mistakes and a positive message will come from the episode, and no one should have anything against this episode.

I'm thinking that Fluttershy will learn to say "no" when she's uncomfortable, but do so nicely, like she always has.

I think Hasbro and Studio B know what they are doing now. That :muffin: Pony issue roughed them up, sure, but I think they handled it well. I thought that they would cut :muffin: Pony altogether, so I sent Hasbro a harsh email, but when I found out that they were only changing that one episode, I calmed down and sent them an apology. :blush:
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: MikaUtsukushi on March 02, 2012, 02:12:50 PM: I just think people need to calm down. People keep looking at things that aren't there. Just leave the poor show alone and just enjoy. D;

I am looking forward to the new episode especially with the Minotaur. I thought Iron Hoof would be some training stallion/mare but a Minotaur is a cool addition to the mythical creature family. :3c
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Okiedokieloki on March 02, 2012, 02:32:39 PM: The amount of drama that goes along with FiM is just so silly...it goes a little too far beyond just loving the show at times.

I highly doubt there's anything to worry about with respect to a character being changed. Even :muffin: Pony went back to being just as she was before "The Last Roundup": a cute "Where's Waldo" type background pony.

The show is rather episodic and there are a lot of discrepancies between episodes. Just because Fluttershy turns overly assertive for one episode doesn't mean they'll keep her that way for future ones. It's just a plot device for the message of the episode (assuming it will be sticking up for yourself and being assertive is fine, just not to the point of being a pushy, bossy bully), and Fluttershy would really be the best character to portray that message.

And even if she did grow to be a little more assertive, would that really be a bad thing? It's character development, something that is highly lacking in many shows nowadays.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Snapdragon on March 02, 2012, 03:39:05 PM: Huh, I thought all topics about :muffin: Pony were to be locked? Interesting that this one's survived so long.

That said, I'm glad that Hasbro is moving in a more sensitive direction, since it's clear that by all of the wails of "PC is the very worst" that the message of 'be kind to others' hasn't gotten through yet. Sad, sad, sad.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Malicieuse on March 02, 2012, 04:07:18 PM: I'm not sure what the problem is or how this could be compared to the :muffin: Pony/Ditzy drama.
Fluttershy has been assertive in the past. Heck, she has been a bit of a crazy jerk in the past.
This is probably one of those episodes where Fluttershy will become TOO assertive and will have to take it down a notch in the end. I don't think anything "shocking" will be in it.

Also, did anyone read that letter from the writer of the :muffin: Pony episode? :muffin: Pony was called Ditzy first. It was only changed because of "fanservice". And the writer also mentioned that the new voice is closer to what she imagined the voice would have been. So yeah, the edit right now is actually closer to the original script/idea. I'm pretty glad they made that change.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: ashes on March 02, 2012, 04:12:03 PM: Just a reminder to please keep this thread on topic. Thanks!

I think we're just getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. ;) I think we should just watch the episode and enjoy the series.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Bunny-san on March 02, 2012, 04:52:45 PM: Yes, thanks Ashes. If you read the first sentence of the topic post, this is NOT about :muffin: Pony. :muffin: Pony is what SPAWNED the concern. I tend to deeply overthink stuff that really bothers me, or where it feels an injustice has happened. I know it sounds very silly, but I've lost sleep over this kind of stuff. Not really over the partcular :muffin: Pony issue, but over the fact that such a small minority was catered to over such an obviously vast majority. It used to be that the needs and wants of the many were outweighed by the needs and wants of the few. I guess my mind has a hard time wrapping around the change to that concept, and I'm wondering how far it will go.

I HOPE it doesn't turn into another internet debacle, because honestly, my brain doesn't NEED more stuff to think about at night when it should be sleeping. There's a REASON I don't watch the news or participate in politics. It gets in my head. Then it doesn't get out. Then I don't sleep. The Last Roundup didn't get out of my head for five nights. The fact that I'm constantly on the internet doesn't help XD And the fact that it was something I *cared* about REALLY didn't help. (Ponies, not :muffin: Pony<<) Anyway, I'mma shut up now that y'all think I'm crazy :P
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Wardah on March 02, 2012, 07:50:53 PM: Honestly there have been people complaining ever since it was announced Lauren Faust wasn't working on the show anymore. They like to say she left because of "creative differences" which implies Hasbro was forcing her to do things she didn't want to do, when it was more they had certain guidelines about certain things (like extreme fighting not being allowed), that she had accepted. She only left because she wanted to try something aimed for a slightly different audience not because there was some kind of a problem. And anyways she wasn't the only one responsible for FIM being awesome. There have always been lots of other awesome writers that make the show what it is.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: babystarz on March 02, 2012, 08:03:00 PM: Quote from: Snapdragon on March 02, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
That said, I'm glad that Hasbro is moving in a more sensitive direction, since it's clear that by all of the wails of "PC is the very worst" that the message of 'be kind to others' hasn't gotten through yet. Sad, sad, sad.

No kidding. The whole premise of the show is that everyone deserves a basic amount of respect and kindness. It's an inclusive message that seems like a positive message to be sending to me. Is requiring a certain amount of civility really that grating?

I think it's only fair for us give the show a chance and let the episode air before we jump to conclusions.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: sabathamk on March 02, 2012, 08:26:11 PM: Bunny-san, I'm a lot like you. I lose sleep over what is normally a silly thing. I overthink things too... then the next time I just enjoy something, and later on realize something about it due to reading other's comments, and THEN overthink it. Yup. You're not crazy. :)

I'm looking forward to an ep about Fluttershy. I honestly have no clue what it is about though. I really just want an ep that isn't just about Pinkie or Dash as they've been done a lot this season. :) Not that I don't like them! I just want an ep about another pony!

Please don't be mad at me! << trying to do best Fluttershy impersonation
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Snapdragon on March 02, 2012, 10:35:58 PM: I'm not sure how it would be possible for an episode like this to go in such an offensive direction that it could become bannable - especially after the recent hooplah with their latest botched handling of a delicate topic. I think, as long as they don't try to bend over backwards to make a fannish shoutout using an offensive stereotype, then we'll be okay. Then again, they've had some problematic elements before, as well - the Over a Barrel ep and the episode with Twilight Sparkle exhibiting what could be some clear (and 'played for laughs') signs of an anxiety disorder. I understand that it was just their idea of a perfectionistic personality taken to an extreme for a cheap laugh, but - it's not okay.

Long story short, I miss Faust, and I wish they had someone half as sensitive as her to direct this show. I feel that the second season has been lacking. There have been some great episodes, but when they fail, they fail hard.

I'm just hoping the next two Fluttershy episodes don't turn into Dragonshy Parts II and III.

Quote from: Bunny-san on March 02, 2012, 04:52:45 PM
[...]but over the fact that such a small minority was catered to over such an obviously vast majority. It used to be that the needs and wants of the many were outweighed by the needs and wants of the few. I guess my mind has a hard time wrapping around the change to that concept, and I'm wondering how far it will go.

Minority group =/= automatically wrong.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Icecrystalline on March 03, 2012, 02:42:35 AM: To be honest, I feel that the people complaining don't really have any ground on which to put their feet down on because My Little Pony was intended for children, it always has been intended to be this way and always will be, and there are us adult and teenage collectors who always have a special place in our heart for ponies, but in fairness to the people who complained to Hasbro, think about this: the show is intended for children, do you really think that a child is going to write to Hasbro and say 'dear hasbro, your funny ponie :muffin: Pony has funny eyes and speaks funny, I'm quite offended by this'. In all seriousness, no, they really aren't going to do that because the audience is 2-6 year olds! This is most certainly not a 'go' at anyone, this is just what I feel needs to be said, :muffin: Pony was intended to be cute and clumsy, not to cause offense, so I do feel the people who complained were complaining about something which was really nothing.
It is really sad to think that a lovely kids show which is also enjoyed by us mature and sensible collectors, is now being 'snubbed' and complained about, the kids wouldn't do it, so why should we?

Sorry, this is not intended to be a rant or a go at anyone, it's just me saying what i feel about something quite upsetting really... :( xxx
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Lancer on March 03, 2012, 04:18:59 AM: Ugh, tell me about it. Each new episode of FiM seems to bring more aggro; more offended people, more hate mail, more stress... I wasn't such a huge fan of the series as some other people here in the first place, but I did look forward to the new episode each weekend. Now I almost feel like staying in bed every saturday, holding the cover over my head and waiting for the whirlwind of anger and hate to pass by!

(Okay, that was a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what I mean!)

So no, you're not alone on this. Some people just take their cartoons TOO seriously, and FiM doesn't exactly take this into account and play it safe all the time! But with a fanbase as big as this one, I guess it's to be expected. Just ignore the fighting and try to enjoy the show for what it is. :)
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Malicieuse on March 03, 2012, 06:11:30 AM: Quote from: Icecrystalline on March 03, 2012, 02:42:35 AM
To be honest, I feel that the people complaining don't really have any ground on which to put their feet down on because My Little Pony was intended for children, it always has been intended to be this way and always will be, and there are us adult and teenage collectors who always have a special place in our heart for ponies, but in fairness to the people who complained to Hasbro, think about this: the show is intended for children, do you really think that a child is going to write to Hasbro and say 'dear hasbro, your funny ponie :muffin: Pony has funny eyes and speaks funny, I'm quite offended by this'. In all seriousness, no, they really aren't going to do that because the audience is 2-6 year olds! This is most certainly not a 'go' at anyone, this is just what I feel needs to be said, :muffin: Pony was intended to be cute and clumsy, not to cause offense, so I do feel the people who complained were complaining about something which was really nothing.
It is really sad to think that a lovely kids show which is also enjoyed by us mature and sensible collectors, is now being 'snubbed' and complained about, the kids wouldn't do it, so why should we?

Sorry, this is not intended to be a rant or a go at anyone, it's just me saying what i feel about something quite upsetting really... :( xxx

Kids wouldn't grasp "racially motivated jokes" either but that doesn't make them ok.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Bunny-san on March 03, 2012, 08:04:01 AM: Snapdragon, let me start by saying that I never said that being part of a minority group automatically made *anyone* wrong. I feel in this particular *case* there was wrongdoing on the part of Hasbro, simply because this was a case where it was SO FREAKING EASY to make everyone happy by simply editing the episode and making it available for the people that wanted an edited version, and leaving the unedited version up for download as well. Instead they made a furor by just making the small group happy and to heck with everyone else. In the case of any future DVD releases, all they had to do was make separate audio tracks (Like they do for different language tracks) so people could MAKE the choice. Instead, they just took the choice away, and I really think that's what upset people, is that the choice was taken from them.

Malicieuse, I absolutely agree that racial jokes made in kids shows are not okay just because they fly over their heads. But I think people going after :muffin: Pony in Last Roundup and getting all upset over Over a Barrel is just going a bit overboard. There are honestly WAY bigger fish to fry in media when it comes to genuine and intentional stabs at race and mentally challenged children that have gone unchallenged and unchanged for years, and no one has gotten all in an uproar about them. Has anyone watched an episode of South Park lately? If you want to talk offensive material, South Park is about as genuinely offensive to just about anyone as you can get! And that stuff is on during daytime hours when kids could easily get a hold of it if they were unsupervised or got the remote by accident, or Mom never set up parental controls. Come on. Timmeh? I mean, kids have way worse stuff that they could be exposed to than a sweet little cross-eyed pony who is really accident prone, or a conflict between settlers and natives that is resolved in a relatively non-violent manner that benefits both parties in the end. Did no one have a friend as a kid that had crossed eyes that was accident prone with a low voice? I did, she was on my softball team and she was *awful* but we never cared because we loved her anyway because we always had fun playing the game! Didn't anyone ever play cowboys and indians as a kid in their back yard with the neighborhood kids or on the play ground? Of course we did, because we were kids, and racism didn't compute with us!

There's being sensitive to the needs of others, which is perfectly fine and great and you should always try your best to do; and then there's being overly sensitive to the point where you can't say or do anything at all without fearing offense. EVERYONE gets offended. But I think society seems to have forgotten that a big part of being offended is being able to swallow your offense and move on with your life. Especially when it doesn't cause any major interruption or disruption to your daily life. And sometimes, we just need to remember that it's okay to just agree to disagree without flaming each other. (That last part is particularly true in politics XD )

And I'll finish by saying, I know some folks love South Park. It's a funny show for adults sure. But I've heard horror stories (horror stories to me as a parent at least) of parents watching South Park with their SIX YEAR OLDS. And I'm just like. No. Ponies. Kids watch PONIES. (And Mickey Mouse.) And ponies to me are not Racist, they do not try to or outright change their friends because they're different. And everything that's been said about "Oh, this is racist this!" and "She's mentally disabled and offensive that!" that just really upsets me because just...No. Ponies love everyone, and solve everything through love and friendship. And we should follow suit, and enjoy the show, and stop with all this over-analyzing stuff.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Pythia on March 03, 2012, 08:41:30 AM: Quote from: Bunny-san on March 03, 2012, 08:04:01 AM
Has anyone watched an episode of South Park lately? If you want to talk offensive material, South Park is about as genuinely offensive to just about anyone as you can get!

You do realise that the word 'Derp' came from South Park in the first place, right?

As for this ep, I'm worried it might go in the direction that Fluttershy needs to be less shy, like it usually seems to. I don't like the idea that it's bad to be shy and that she needs to change. Some people aren't very outgoing or extroverted, and making them feel like that's a bad thing that should be changed usually just makes the problem worse.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 03, 2012, 08:45:14 AM: I personally think the "unintentional" offenses are just as bad as the intentional ones because by saying it's OK as long as the person didn't mean it, that implies that it's OK to not be aware of how what you say or do affects others. This is much more an issue to me in children's shows than in intentionally adult/offensive shows because children presumably don't know. And since MLP is supposed to be "educational", I think that means they have to be extra careful about the messages they're sending because the whole premise of having a moral at the end implies that this is not "just a cartoon." This is why I have been critical of a number of episodes and portrayals in FiM, as much as I do like it. I don't think it's sending a "bad" message, but I think there are times when it could be better. As for the current episode, I'm still waiting to see it....
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: LadyMoondancer on March 03, 2012, 11:23:26 AM: I think "unintentionally offensive" is often worse than "intentionally mean", because with the latter you can tell kids, "That person is being MEAN, don't be like that!" It's harder to grasp "that person is not trying to be mean, but what they're saying is not okay."

This reminds me of a story someone told me about her elderly mother-in-law. She, her husband, and the mother-in-law were all at a basketball game and halfway through the mother-in-law turned to the other two and said, with a big happy smile on her face, "Isn't it nice that black people have something to be good at?"

Was the mother-in-law trying to be mean? No. Was that a cringe-worthy and offensive statement? Yes!

Anyway, getting back on topic, I don't really understand why you think this episode would be at all equivalent to the :muffin: Pony situation? Obviously it's going to be "Fluttershy is a doormat, then Fluttershy is overly mean, then Fluttershy finds out she can be assertive without being mean."

The issue with :muffin: Pony was there wasn't any lesson at all, it was "Rainbow Dash shouts at :muffin: Pony, :muffin: Pony screws up, Rainbow Dash continues to be angry, :muffin: Pony continues to mess up . . . Okay, that's a wrap." The problem wasn't "she's mentally disabled", it was "main character screams at a disabled character for clumsiness that she can't help." The whole scene really made me dislike Rainbow Dash, who at one point was my favorite pony.

Spoiler for today's episode:

Spoiler
Fluttershy was a doormat, then Fluttershy was overly mean, then Fluttershy found out she can be assertive without being mean.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Bunny-san on March 03, 2012, 11:53:51 AM: Now that I've watched the episode (Now definitely replacing Lesson Zero as my least favorite), the reason I had hesitations AGAIN-- If you had read. Was that I had feared that they would change Fluttershy's character permanently in a manner that just wasn't canon to FLUTTERSHY. Like how they changed :muffin: Pony. Simple as that.

The entire episode genuinely made no sense. All they did was make Fluttershy into Flutterbrute for an episode. In "The Staremaster" as well as "Dragonshy" It was already established that she had the ability to assert herself without being a complete scream-your-head-off, kick your butt, a-hole. Why did Hasbro feel the need to bring out the "Psycho-brute" side of Fluttershy (again)? It was completely unnecessary. And talk about a great example to present to kids! Some of the ponies horrid behavior around ponyville left me flabbergasted. It was like Ponyville had been horribly transformed into the Northern VA/DC area, a town full of ba$+)*ds. I watched it with my husband, but without our son.
Spoiler
And we just sat there, slack-jawed when Fluttershy made Rarity and Pinkie Pie CRY. REALLY?!
Of all the episodes, we just sort of agreed that this wouldn't be one that we'd share with him. While it ended up well as all episodes do, and they didn't change her character irreparably to some super-dominant tough pony, I was still very disappointed in the overall content of the episode. :(
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Wardah on March 03, 2012, 12:55:03 PM: You need to have more faith in your parenting skills. I am sure your little one won't get the wrong message from the episode since I am sure you have been sending the right message and right messages from parents override TV shows.

I kind of was not crazy about the fact that she has shown she can be assertive before but I can just fix that by realizing that these episodes are not in chronological order and this must have happened before those episodes.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 03, 2012, 01:09:03 PM: OK, now that I've seen it, the only thing that bothered me a bit was Rarity's "assertiveness" at the beginning was more like manipulation to me; I don't particularly like the suggestion of flirting with someone to get what you want, and neither her solution or Pinkie Pie addressed the issue of Fluttershy not only being not assertive, but being taken advantage of. But the main point of the episode was fine, I though...maybe I've just forgotten the other Fluttershy episodes already, but this one seemed a little different. I can relate to worrying that in being assertive you'll go too far and having trouble finding a balance.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: StarSwirl05 on March 03, 2012, 01:18:48 PM: Honestly, I didn't like Fluttershy being her sort-of Discord'd self. She needed to be right in the middle as she learned at the end of the ep. She went so far as to make both Rarity AND Pinkie Pie cry! Those two may not be my favorite but I think I'd take them over Flutterjerk any day!
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 03, 2012, 01:32:17 PM: I think not liking her like that was the whole point.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Bunny-san on March 03, 2012, 01:43:16 PM: I agree with y'all. Particularly about Rarity's manipulation at the start of the episode. Honestly, I've always called my husband "Geeki" as a nickname, since he's the smart glasses, not so athletic or muscly type guy, who honestly, is just a self professed Geek. And he was offended by that.(But we swallow our pride and move on. :p) And such a great thing to teach little girls too, that if you use your looks and some sweet words you can get whatever you want out of men. Nice.At least she paid him for the veggies. <<

And Wardah, I have plenty of faith in my parenting abilities--which is why I choose not to willingly expose my son to behaviors I see as completely undesirable. If he encounters these bad behaviors in everyday life, I assure you I'll do my duty as mom to make sure he knows that those behaviors are NOT appropriate. But until then, why force exposure to a bad thing? :) I think that makes me a pretty good mom, personally. ^^;
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Vintergatan on March 03, 2012, 02:14:19 PM: Quote from: Elisto on March 03, 2012, 08:45:14 AM
I personally think the "unintentional" offenses are just as bad as the intentional ones because by saying it's OK as long as the person didn't mean it, that implies that it's OK to not be aware of how what you say or do affects others. This is much more an issue to me in children's shows than in intentionally adult/offensive shows because children presumably don't know. And since MLP is supposed to be "educational", I think that means they have to be extra careful about the messages they're sending because the whole premise of having a moral at the end implies that this is not "just a cartoon." This is why I have been critical of a number of episodes and portrayals in FiM, as much as I do like it. I don't think it's sending a "bad" message, but I think there are times when it could be better. As for the current episode, I'm still waiting to see it....

This is exactly how I feel about all the issues, so it's completely nonsensical to compare FiM to South Park or to dismiss any issues with "it's just a cartoon".

But this is my opinion and I´m not imposing it on anyone else, which is why I find it pretty insulting and hurtful when people casually blame those that see things this way for destroying the show for them.

This is a huge fandom, there will be sooo many different opinions on every single thing within it, and I think we all have the right to our opinions without being dismissed and told to "chill out"

how Hasbro handles things though is their own problem and they have obviously tried to cater to all these different opinions and in the end everyone felt at least a bit uncomfortable by some of their decisions, but I don't think it's ok to blame it on the fans.

Being a really casual watcher of FiM, I really don't understand this animosity that has infiltrated the forum and I think it's really unfortunate and I have felt on numerous occasions that some members here have been rudely dismissed.

I know i´m just escalating the problem, and i´m sorry, but I just can't seem to shake the feeling that there is a bit more rudeness and intolerance on these topics than what I´d like to see, considering most of us are no longer kids and are discussing touchy but important topics here.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Clementine on March 03, 2012, 02:54:17 PM: I'm suprised there's so much controversy for lesson zero. I don't really see how that episode or the most recent one are offensive to people with extreme anxiety. In fact, I am one of those people with major anxiety problems and on both occasions I could really relate to both those characters. In fact, the rest of my friends could relate to Twilights madness in lesson zero as well, all of us having gone /slightly/ crazy over assesment and all of us having our concerns dismissed. It was a good lesson at the end! I also don't see how Fluttershy learning to stand up for herself on things that are important is breaking cannon. I like that they are showing some character development :) I also love the line "No means no." I think it's a wonderful line to use and a great message in todays episode :) Rarity's methods were a bit iffy but I'm not going to let that overshadow a what was otherwise a wonderful episode.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: MikaUtsukushi on March 03, 2012, 03:02:58 PM: So I took a look at this episode when it started and I want to point out that I actually liked it. It did feel a little bit lackluster to me... but maybe I was feeling a little lackluster myself. (Today's kind of a boresnore day.) But in other cases I had figured Rarity would at least use her feminine charm. Though Pinkie Pie doing a 'Rabbit Season, Duck Season technique' was the first time in a while that amused me from Pinkie Pie. Though I am a bit disappointed in the way the whole town was acting I mean... jeez. I did like the fact that Iron Will had his seminar in a middle of a corn maze though I'm not sure why he had a group of goats help him out. I actually do like Fluttermeanie. It's just so different and OOC... I know I'm probably one of the only people on here that likes new Fluttershy though but if you think about it... Fluttershy has been pushed around all of her life at least what have we've seen. When she got this new ability of assertiveness, it did went to her head, but I don't blame her, these ponies have been acting mean, if I were there I would have given them a piece of my mind too. I totally smiled when Fluttershy made Pinkie Pie and Rarity cry, call me mean but I enjoyed that. (I honestly wish those two would just disappear.) All in all I enjoyed this episode, I don't see a single thing wrong with it other than a couple things here or there. To be perfectly honest, I think people are just getting their feathers in a ruffle over nothing.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Snapdragon on March 03, 2012, 03:33:24 PM: No comment. Anything I say is going to come out too angry.

I'm still kind of wondering why we're all still discussing :muffin: Pony, but whatevs. I haven't seen the new episodes, so thanks for the spoiler tags, y'all, I appreciate it. :) Gotta see it! Even if it is probably just a revamp of Dragonshy, sigh.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Majesty on March 03, 2012, 03:56:27 PM: Sometimes it bothers me when characters act not like themselves but I also keep in mind it's only a cartoon and my opinion of certain characters won't change. It's just a way to see another side of them I guess.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Elisto on March 03, 2012, 04:03:15 PM: I guess I'm not really sure I understand why people are upset with Fluttershy acting out of character since the who point of the episode was that she was out of character and mean, and how that's not the same thing as being assertive. Bunny-san, the part you put in spoiler tags...I guess I just disagree that showing someone doing something wrong and then regretting it is a bad thing. Even nice people can make mistakes, and she certainly did realize pretty quickly how wrong she was.
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: Bunny-san on March 03, 2012, 05:33:40 PM: Elisto, it wasn't that she DID something wrong. It was how far and how extreme they took it. It just went way too far for me. They didn't have to make her be that mean. I just kinda don't like how in these episodes where the ponies seem to go, shall I say "Off their rockers" temporairily, they really just go off the deep end. I think they can communicate their message without doing that.

Also, Vintergarten. I know my posts are long winded sometimes, but I thought I was pretty clear. In no way did I ever compare, or say that FiM was LIKE South Park in any way. Comparisons are saying one thing is like another. I said they were opposites. What I said is that South Park takes genuine stabs at mentally challenged people and can be racist for the sake of laughs, whereas FiM's percieved offensive moments have always been completely unintentional. It's not really a comparison, so much as it's just a statement of fact. :)
Title: Re: Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down
Post by: SourdoughStomper on March 03, 2012, 05:40:07 PM: I'll go ahead and lock before this gets worse.