The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: MintySocks on January 24, 2012, 12:00:49 AM

Title: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: MintySocks on January 24, 2012, 12:00:49 AM
I'm just wondering because there's such controversy over :muffin: Pony and how she mocks the deaf or the mentally ill, or how she's only there for the bronies. 
Soooooo...
Why no controversy about Snips and Snails, especially Snails? Did anybody see the "Boast Busters" episode where not only are they both FULLY as idiotic as :muffin: Pony, but there's a bit where they're slightly making fun of Canadians! And let's talk about the names, which come from the old saying that girls are made of "sugar and spice, and everything nice," and boys are made of "snips and snails and puppy dog tails." How come nobody's yelling about gender discrimination?


Not trying to be a pot-stirrer, but I just can't figure out why some stupid characters are OK, but others aren't.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: StarDragon on January 24, 2012, 12:12:24 AM
I didn't realize there was so much controversy over :muffin: Pony Hooves. She just seems like the type of silly character than any cartoon might have.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on January 24, 2012, 12:12:43 AM
If you want my honest opinion, the show has never been good at writing "dim" characters, and if that's all :muffin: Pony is going to be, then they ought to lay off using her altogether.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: TickledPink on January 24, 2012, 12:23:52 AM
Some people just need to find things to be angry about. I think people just need to chill.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: hlbmlp on January 24, 2012, 12:43:25 AM
i believe it has to do with her name; :muffin: Pony, which comes from herpy :muffin: Pony, herp derp and originally hurr durr, which was first used in the show South Park to make fun of kids with disabilities.  A lot of people take offense to it because they have personally been made fun of with the name or know someone who has.  It is basically the sound effect that goes with the steryotipical face and actions of a person with down syndrome.

i personally love all of these characters dearly. i just know people who have been offended by :muffin: Pony's name. 
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Minty_Magic on January 24, 2012, 01:56:47 AM
Some people just need to find things to be angry about. I think people just need to chill.
I agree, people get so worked up over EVERYTHING anymore. it's ridiculous. :l
There have been characters far dumber than :muffin: Pony in cartoons before and I never saw anyone flip out over them. Of course then again I'm not all that involved with other shows, but still, I can't find anything to be THAT mad about. I don't think "derp" even refers to retardation anymore, if it ever did. I feel it's generally just associated with crazy, wall eyed expressions.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: SuniMoon on January 24, 2012, 02:18:12 AM
Actually, the first use of derp, while it was in South Park... was Mr. Derp, if I recall... http://www.myspace.com/video/mambo/mr-derp/7186744 (http://www.myspace.com/video/mambo/mr-derp/7186744)

So, their first use of derp... Is pretty much what the word derp is today.
There have just been other forms inbetween.

Anyway, I think most people are getting their knickers in a twist because she's catering to bronies, and not so much the supposed fact that she's "speeecial"... I think that is more a way to justify being upset over her.

I'm on the fence a little, because I think they MIGHT push :muffin: Pony over the line, and in bad writing territory... But I actually like that they're paying attention to the bronies. They're still a part of the fanbase, and I like it when writers pay attention to their fans.

Now, catering PURELY to them would be wrong, but... Why get worked up over this when we've been inching our way up to a :muffin: Pony appearance for awhile... She's been in the background eeeverywhere for awhile, and we know THAT was catering to the bronies.

I thought she was cute.

I dunno. I think we need to drop the controversy...
It's just making a normally fluffy and happy area of the arena a little too... harsh... :/

I agree, though... I think Snails was a lot more on the generic HURR DURR side of things than :muffin: Pony was... but nobody seems to think it's a reason to not want kids watching the show.

Like I said... I think bronies are the main issue people are taking.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Pythia on January 24, 2012, 02:49:20 AM
Because 'snails' isn't an insult used to refer to disabled people, Snails doens't have mismatched eyes, and Snails doesn't talk in a mocking parody of many disabled people's voices. And Snails isn't portrayed as being oblivious, breaking everything he touches, and to annoying to be around.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Lyra on January 24, 2012, 03:20:43 AM
I think it is more 'expected/accepted' to have goofy man characters in media who are lovable (and FORGIVEN) for their shortcomings - but women are expected to be perfect?
Homer Simpson - lovable idiot, Marge - pretty much 'perfect' wife. Same in Family Guy and maaany other cartoons and sitcoms (rash foolish husband, sensible wife).
Daisy and Minnie - Perfect, but wheres is Mrs Goofy NOW? I know the older cartoons had more characters, but how popular are they now compared to the 'core' bunch we see everywhere now.

In what I observe from my personal experiences, family, academic and work it SOMETIMES feels like if mistakes are made by men, others MAY (not always) be more ready to forgive them 'cause their just men afterall' but women should know better because they are 'expected'  to be more sensible

I think girls should be allowed to be goofy and much as the male characters
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Taxel on January 24, 2012, 04:06:33 AM
Because 'snails' isn't an insult used to refer to disabled people, Snails doens't have mismatched eyes, and Snails doesn't talk in a mocking parody of many disabled people's voices. And Snails isn't portrayed as being oblivious, breaking everything he touches, and to annoying to be around.

Pretty much this.

Its not so much that :muffin: Pony offends me that I feel she's an inappropriate character for a show aimed at young kids with how she's being portrayed.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Malicieuse on January 24, 2012, 06:55:34 AM
Like others have said, it's a mix of things that make :muffin: Pony a questionable character.
Now again, i think i need to see more of :muffin: Pony to have an opinion of her. At this point i think she can go either way. But i can very well understand the problems people have with her. Again, it's the mix of her name, her eyes, behaviour, voice and the fact she is only in there as fan service. Frankly, i am one of those people that doesn't want to see fanfiction interfer with the show too much. I think her name will be painfully outdated/lame sounding in an x-amount of years.

Also i never liked Snips or Snails. But i never like any character who is just there to be dumb and mess things up. A character like Goofy is at least funny. Snips and Snails however are not.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: sd_dreamcrystal on January 24, 2012, 07:07:51 AM
Hmmm I must be only seeing people that like :muffin: Pony... Which, wasn't her name originally Ditzy Doo and fans started calling her :muffin: Pony Hooves? The only time I'm even seen her used in an episode and being called :muffin: Pony is the newest episode "Last Roundup". I think the only reason she was used was because of the fans. :muffin: Pony has a huge fan base o.o;

Personally I don't -care- for :muffin: Pony/Ditzy, Snips, and Snails :|
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Elisto on January 24, 2012, 07:16:39 AM
there's a bit where they're slightly making fun of Canadians!
Uh...I saw the episode and I don't remember anything about Canadians?

Also, I had thought Snails was based on the G1 of the same name, not the nursery rhyme.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: sd_dreamcrystal on January 24, 2012, 07:27:58 AM
there's a bit where they're slightly making fun of Canadians!
Uh...I saw the episode and I don't remember anything about Canadians?

Also, I had thought Snails was based on the G1 of the same name, not the nursery rhyme.
You're thinking about Squirmy. Snails has that pony's colors and symbol, I remember making a post about it a while back
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: MintySocks on January 24, 2012, 08:06:02 AM
there's a bit where they're slightly making fun of Canadians!
Uh...I saw the episode and I don't remember anything about Canadians?

Also, I had thought Snails was based on the G1 of the same name, not the nursery rhyme.

Here you go:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanadaEh
Scroll down to the "Western Animation, Eh" folder and it's listed right there. I thought maybe I was the only one who noticed the accent but apparently a LOT of people have noticed. ;)
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Squirrelypaws on January 24, 2012, 08:18:00 AM
I don't mind the character or really have a problem with her. I just would have preferred they call her Ditzy. It's more "kid-friendly", for lack of a better term, and to me, it just sounds more pony-like.

My problem with ":muffin: Pony" is the fact that they used a fan name that's derived from a term most of the TARGET AUDIENCE wouldn't understand. To me, that comes across as nothing more than a big shout-out to the brony fanbase.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that they're embracing and acknowledging that side of the fanbase, but in my opinion, actually going so far as to use a fan-created name (one kids in the target age group won't understand, at that) is just overdoing it.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Elisto on January 24, 2012, 08:45:09 AM
Ah, yeah, Squirmy >_< I never did like the newborn ponies enough to remember them.

Anyway, yeah, I actually have heard people complain about Snips and Snails as negative male stereotypes. But I think people in general are a little more accepting of dumb male characters in cartoons then they are of potentially insensitive portrayals of disabled stereotypes, intentional or not. Not that I think it makes male stereotypes OK, but I don't think anyone laughs at Snips and Snails because they're male, but because they're kind of stupid and goofy. With :muffin: Pony, sure, people laugh at her, and like her, because she's kind of goofy, clumsy, and not very bright, but unlike the two boys, who just have generic silly voices and make silly mistakes, :muffin: Pony's silly characteristics...her eyes, name, voice, the extent of her clumsiness, are all specifically associated with stereotypes of people with disabilities, so even if it wasn't intentional, it's insensitive, or at least something people who write characters with these traits need to be careful about when they use.

As for making fun of Canadians...I think I'd have to see the clip because from the description, I don't really see how it's "making fun"... I guess just because they're dumb characters and one kind of maybe has a Canadian accent? I don't know who the voice actor is...couldn't it just be his own accent? I mean, if people are offended, OK, I'm not going to argue they shouldn't be, but I don't personally see it from that explanation alone.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: lovekangaroo on January 24, 2012, 09:15:21 AM
why is it so many people go straight to :muffin: Pony being a stereotype of someone with a disability?  has no one ever seen some goofy person making a face? has no one ever heard some one that had a voice that was different? has no one ever seen someone that clumsy? what world are you living in where only disabled people are like that? as for her name, how big would the uproar have been if they had called her something else?
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: PrincessNikki on January 24, 2012, 09:20:25 AM
A user on Tumblr brought up that fact, also, citing Ed from Ed, Edd, and Eddy and Patrick Star from Spongebob.

Everyone loves these delightful forgetful clumsy characters, but the moment their name changes to "Derp" it's offensive. Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Malicieuse on January 24, 2012, 10:06:22 AM
why is it so many people go straight to :muffin: Pony being a stereotype of someone with a disability?  has no one ever seen some goofy person making a face? has no one ever heard some one that had a voice that was different? has no one ever seen someone that clumsy? what world are you living in where only disabled people are like that? as for her name, how big would the uproar have been if they had called her something else?

I have never seen a goofy person make a face almost 24/7, no. XD
 
Not that i'm saying that anyone with such an eye problem is mentally disabled. In fact, the way they portray the only pony with this condition as an idiot is questionable in itself.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Levengale on January 24, 2012, 10:22:24 AM
Haha, well, I think that anyone who is offended by any of these characters is taking the show a little too seriously... :throw:
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: ZennaBug on January 24, 2012, 10:27:36 AM
I don't like Snips or Snails.  Not because I find them offensive, I just think they're annoying/dumb.  But while :muffin: Pony comes across as making fun of the mentally handicapped (unintentionally, I am sure, but still in poor taste), these two are just annoying background characters.  They're not offensive.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: lovekangaroo on January 24, 2012, 10:29:49 AM
why is it so many people go straight to :muffin: Pony being a stereotype of someone with a disability?  has no one ever seen some goofy person making a face? has no one ever heard some one that had a voice that was different? has no one ever seen someone that clumsy? what world are you living in where only disabled people are like that? as for her name, how big would the uproar have been if they had called her something else?

I have never seen a goofy person make a face almost 24/7, no. XD
 
Not that i'm saying that anyone with such an eye problem is mentally disabled. In fact, the way they portray the only pony with this condition as an idiot is questionable in itself.

we haven't seen :muffin: Pony 24/7 plus i've seen some screenshots of :muffin: Pony with normal eyes most the other screen shots she looks like she's making a face. http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/:muffin: Pony/Gallery (http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/:muffin: Pony/Gallery)
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Shaiyeh on January 24, 2012, 10:44:23 AM
About canadians - that's occured in maaaany comic shows.

For example the classic
"I'm from Canada and they think I'm slow"-quote from SImpsons (I think it was)

it's nothing to take offence of. I had a canadian science teacher, and one classmate said that in class.
all he said was
"sssoooooooo?" ( with a ;) )

US based shows make fun of other countries all the time. Russia, and/or East Europe, Germany, Italy, Sweden even...

Reminds me of when Conan O'Brien made fun of Europe. And Sweden. I find it hilarious.

I agree with what somepony said about if you get offended by any characters in FiM, you're taking it too seriously.
There's no Canada-hating going on, nor is there any "special needs" hating going on.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Vintergatan on January 24, 2012, 10:48:42 AM
What i don't understand is why people can go on and say that everyone who gets upset over these characters is overreacting? Now while I personally don't have an issue with them I can definitely see how a girl with mismatched eyes can be sensitive to this, or even someone with slight mental disability, or their family.

It's easy for us to stand on the side and tell them they're overreacting but if it does get so many people upset, who are we to tell them they are being unreasonable. Especially if we´re talking about kids. Some kids are simply sensitive whether we think it's justified or not. simply telling them they´re overreacting isn't really gonna help anyone.

Also, I wasn't insulted by Snips and Snails when I first saw them but I did find them obnoxious as hell. Not sure I can get insulted as I´ve never met a boy/guy that acts like that so in my eyes they are simply caricatures.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Diamond on January 24, 2012, 10:50:02 AM
To be honest I think folks are reading more into this then needs be.  It is meant as entertainment.  If you find it annoying then do not watch that episode.

There where many popular shows in my youth that I did not care for how they portrayed certain characters so I did not watch them and they where wildly popular shows too.

Also think to some of the older cartoons, such as Bugs Bunny and Road Runner.  There where tons of characters who made fun of whole groups so this nothing new sadly.

Everyone is entailed to there opinion and views, we just need to remember to be civil and respectful of that.  Sometimes it would be nice if those making our entertainment remembered that a little better but that is why there are 100's of channels and at times nothing to watch. 
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Elisto on January 24, 2012, 10:51:33 AM
Of course that's not all those traits mean or are, but the fact is they have often negatively associated with people with disabilities and for a very long time, especially when you put all of those traits together in one character and are expected to laugh at it. It's not at all an uncommon stereotype, even if you don't see it quite so much anymore, so of course people would be offended that others find it funny/mocking, even if that's not the intention. Honestly, I'm surprised Hasbro seems to not be aware of that, and that's what's insensitive.

As for not seeing :muffin: Pony making that face 24/7, she makes it often enough and in situations where it makes no sense that I think it's safe to say it's a mostly permanent character trait, not a face she makes sometimes.

My point is just that it's a known offensive stereotype, so why include it? That just seems...well..insensitive.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Snapdragon on January 24, 2012, 11:24:06 AM
:muffin: Pony, itself, is a slur against the disabled. (Look up 'derp face,' you'll be extremely offended. Unless you're too 'edgy', sigh. Basic human decency seems like it should trump 'edgy' teenager-like behavior, but whatevs.) :muffin: Pony came from the meme 'herpderp' or 'hurr durr,' which is often used to mimic/mock someone who is mentally disabled, as a joke. When Bronies came up with the name ':muffin: Pony Hooves,' it was because she had wall-eyes, which (to their minds) must mean that she was mentally disabled of some kind. Physical disability =/= mental disability.

In addition, :muffin: Pony is shown to be bad at working - she crashes into everything, she has no sense that she's messing things up, and she also has no realization that she's hurting herself. The joke seems to be, "Look how funny it is, she's so stupid she doesn't even realize she's hurt/breaking things." Rainbow Dash yells at her for attempting to help, and since no one contradicts her ... it kind of leaves the viewer to assume, 'It's okay to yell at people if they break things or act annoying, even if they can't help it.'

Snips and Snails, on the other hand, are kids. Kids are expected to do some stupid stuff - that's how they learn. They have the ability to realize when they've messed things up (like panicking when Trixie couldn't defeat the Ursa, and when they begged for forgiveness from Twilight Sparkle), even though they make foolish, impetuous decisions. It is clear that their desire to impress Trixie overwhelms their good sense, which is something that kids are prone to do; it doesn't mean they're inherently stupid or disabled. Some people here have kids - you KNOW your kids do stupid stuff sometimes, because they're kids! It doesn't make them inherently stupid, they just don't know any better yet.

Yes, Snails has a bit of a deeper, goofy voice, much like :muffin: Pony, but in his case, it's not as offensive because A) he's a kid, and B) his 'stupidity' is not made to seem like it's a disability. He still has a friend (Snips), he still can get things done (finding the Ursa), we still see him going to school and being a productive member of pony society. Everything he touches does not get destroyed; he has a sense of when he is in physical danger/risks getting hurt, both of which are the opposite to :muffin: Pony Hooves. (My feeling is, the voice could be all right, except that in conjunction with the name, it becomes stereotypical and offensive. If her name was 'Bubbles' or 'Bubblecup,' then it wouldn't be nearly as bad.)

In short, like I said before - I love :muffin: Pony Hooves. I think she's an awesome pony! I love how she's klutzy, cute and sweet. But I don't think her name should be :muffin: Pony, and I don't think she should be portrayed as a stereotype. You can make a klutzy, over-active, super-excited pony without making her demeaning - just look at Pinkie Pie!
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: StarLite on January 24, 2012, 11:27:43 AM
My point is just that it's a known offensive stereotype, so why include it? That just seems...well..insensitive.

They're including it because the fanbase wanted it. They're not trying to create a hugely offensive stereotype, they're just trying to show the bronies that they care about them, and want them to keep watching.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: EmberBright on January 24, 2012, 11:38:03 AM
I don't like him, but it's only because I'm not a fan of any characters like that- can't stand Spongebob's friend Patrick. Or Spongebob, for that matter, but he's a WHOLE other kind of idiotic. :) My kids love them, though.

I also don't like :muffin: Pony, just because of her voice. I can appreciate a clumsy character (like me!), and her eyes were kind of endearing. I'm not a big :muffin: Pony fan, but I had imagined her with a more pleasant voice and hoped maybe she was some kind of rocket scientist behind the eyes. I guess one problem with them taking a background character who's so well-known and giving her a voice is that when they put a voice/character traits to her, some people are going to be disappointed. I don't find her offensive, I just don't like her now.

And really? Canadian? I always find it funny when American TV shows do "Canadian accents," because they never sound like anyone I know. Except for "How I Met Your Mother," a little... I sometimes catch myself saying "aboat" instead of "about"- but never have I heard a Canadian say "Aboot"  ;)
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: MintySocks on January 24, 2012, 11:49:13 AM
Well this discussion has really helped me understand the issue, to be honest. That's what I was going for, so thank you all for your heartfelt opinions. I don't personally feel Snails is an attempt at Canadian bashing, by the way, any more than it is when they do it on Veggietales. I was just surprised nobody had taken that up and run with it since people seem so sensitive about everything else.

I guess what crystallizes the difference for me is that Snips and Snails are kids, :muffin: Pony is not. I kind of forgot that since Snails is a "tween" and :muffin: Pony is so childlike. But I don't think we've seen enough of :muffin: Pony to know what she's capable of...

My dream is to see an episode where :muffin: Pony finally gets to tell her story and her REAL name (not the nickname ":muffin: Pony" but what her parents actually named her), and that Dash and the other ponies show her compassion and understanding. That she is seen as a valuable part of the Ponyville community for who she is. That's my headcanon and that would do a LOT to redeem this whole issue in my eyes.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: SuniMoon on January 24, 2012, 11:57:42 AM
.... I feel somehow like my post on the true origins of the word derp has been ignored. Ohhhhh weeeeeellll.

Anyway, on the note of her name.... What would have happened had they called her "Ditzy Doo"... Yeah, it wouldn't have catered directly to the bronies, and GASP, it wouldn't have used the word "derp"...

But someone would have still raged. Infact, I'm sure with one simple name change, the arguement would shift over to how that name is degrading to women, and how it's insulting blondes, or SOME such crap.... And I'm sure there'd still be the fair share of rage over her being insulting to the disabled.

The odd thing with offensive content, though... It's never the subject of the offensive content getting upset.

For instance... Speedy Gonzales. Ahh, that little stereotyped mexican mouse and his highly offensive brothers. Cartoon Network shelved Speedy in 1999. It was just TOO offensive. Too many stereotypes, too much misuse of language... He would get them in hot water! He would offend so many people!!

... Then the League of United Latin American Citizens GOT SPEEDY BACK ON AIR IN 2002. Hey. Turns out Speedy's popular in Latin America.

Also, I do believe a new user named Syri made a post on here about HAVING :muffin: Pony's visual impairment, being a bit of a clutz, do her vision, and loving her.

Pony's should not raise children.
Parents should raise children.

Everybody is going to be offended by something...
I'm sure there's pleeeenty of content already in MLP that makes people raise an eyebrow.

I, for instance, couldn't for the life of me figure out whaaat message A Dog and Pony Show was trying to send.... I figured from the start that it was a feminist message... But at the end, I sat there staring at Rarity in awe thinking... "Okay... So the moral is suppooosed to be that with some brains, a girl doesn't have to be physically strong or bada** to handle herself in a sticky situation.... I think.... But I'm also getting another message here that says 'Complain, if that dun work, whine, if that dun work, cry... Just be sure to get those dumb men wrapped around your little finger.'"

... And I just didn't know how to feel bout that. Wasn't offended just.... Wasn't sure what to make of it.


Anyway, point is, there's iffy content all through the show, and if :muffin: Pony was the last straw to not want your child watching it... Eeeeeeeh, oookay then.

P.S. I don't think the opening post was alluding to Snails canadian comment being offensive to them, but more wondering why people aren't getting allllll upset over that too, if they're going to worry about other silly things.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: stopxmotion on January 24, 2012, 12:26:12 PM
Haha, well, I think that anyone who is offended by any of these characters is taking the show a little too seriously... :throw:
This is all.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: kmlv23 on January 24, 2012, 12:38:16 PM
Some people just need to find things to be angry about. I think people just need to chill.
Could not agree more. It's just a cartoon, people.

Post Merge: January 24, 2012, 12:38:35 PM

Haha, well, I think that anyone who is offended by any of these characters is taking the show a little too seriously... :throw:
This is all.
Also this.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Malicieuse on January 24, 2012, 02:30:15 PM
Some people just need to find things to be angry about. I think people just need to chill.
Could not agree more. It's just a cartoon, people.

Post Merge: January 24, 2012, 12:38:35 PM

Haha, well, I think that anyone who is offended by any of these characters is taking the show a little too seriously... :throw:
This is all.
Also this.

While i can't say i'm "offended".  Do you guys really need to give these sneaky stabs at people who don't feel the same way as you guys do? I don't think it's that hard to understand both views...
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: kmlv23 on January 24, 2012, 02:59:25 PM
Some people just need to find things to be angry about. I think people just need to chill.
Could not agree more. It's just a cartoon, people.

Post Merge: January 24, 2012, 12:38:35 PM

Haha, well, I think that anyone who is offended by any of these characters is taking the show a little too seriously... :throw:
This is all.
Also this.
While i can't say i'm "offended".  Do you guys really need to give these sneaky stabs at people who don't feel the same way as you guys do? I don't think it's that hard to understand both views...
I'm not trying to 'take a stab' at anyone. It just worries me that everyone is so danged sensitive these days and everyone feels the need to be so politically correct all the time. It's a cartoon. They chose the name, and no amount of complaining is going to change anything, more than likely. What's done has been done and theres no changing it, and anything else is a waste of energy. thats my two cents on the subject.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Calico_Star on January 24, 2012, 03:10:02 PM
While I agree that everyone is going way overboard when it comes to political correctness these days, and am just as exasperated as the rest of you with it, I don't think :muffin: Pony's situation is a case of people going overboard. In this case, I think it's a perfectly valid concern, and I think a line was crossed in the most recent episode. Before, :muffin: Pony was clumsy and wall-eyed. A little questionable, but she was cute (until she became overused and annoying). But then they gave her a dumbed-down voice and manner of speaking. So now besides looking somewhat physically (and possibly mentally) handicapped, she now SOUNDS like she has mental problems AND she's a walking disaster...yeah, I can definitely see how that upsets people. I don't like to read between the lines too much at all, especially in a cartoon, but :muffin: Pony is just over the top now. The "special" look OR the walking disaster/slow voice would be forgivable on their own, but combined, she just comes off very strongly as a stereotypical "special" person. If I were a little girl with a mental OR physical disability, I don't think :muffin: Pony's portrayal would be making me feel good about myself at all, whether I understood her new name or not.

I'm also with Malicieuse on the whole acting condescendingly towards people who are offended by :muffin: Pony. Come on, guys, let's respect each other's opinions. I'm actually quite taken aback by some of the members who are doing this, I expected a little better.

I also think the fact that one person has a similar impairment and thinks :muffin: Pony is funny shouldn't automatically mean she's not offensive to anybody and that the people who do worry about her being offensive are wrong and just "need to chill."  :huh:
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: creedence on January 24, 2012, 03:20:14 PM
I actually don't know what you're talking about BUT...The "Over A Barrel" episode offended me...It was only the second episode I watched besides the pilot but now I won't watch it at all and come to think of it, I haven't bought any g4s since then.   
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: ashes on January 24, 2012, 03:24:42 PM
This is an early warning to please be respectful of others opinions.  If people continue to feel the need to tell each other to be respectful, then the thread will be locked.  ~ashes
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: stopxmotion on January 24, 2012, 03:26:28 PM
It just worries me that everyone is so danged sensitive these days...
This right here is what bothers me too. There are a lot of things in this world to be truly concerned about - a cartoon character isn't one of them.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: StarDapple on January 24, 2012, 03:26:58 PM
I think they could have handled it better.  It's fine to have a girl character with a low voice, but the way the voice was, I thought it was too much.  I didn't mind her clumsiness or anything like that, but I thought they could have done much better with a voice for her, so it wasn't stereotypical mental handicap voice.


I can understand both sides, however, I just think they should have put more thought into her.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: lovekangaroo on January 24, 2012, 03:31:46 PM
it's probably just people that like :muffin: Pony wanna defend her because if enough complaints are made i'm sure we'll probably never see her in the show again, or have hope of seeing a toy of her... and as for her voice. as i said in another post it reminds me of some of the earlier care bears voices.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Vintergatan on January 24, 2012, 03:32:14 PM
Hmm, don't know how to delete this message, but everything i´d like to say has already been said.


I would like to remind that on the old forum, in a thread with a similar topic, someone did mention knowing a little girl who got really upset when people started calling her :muffin: Pony (in a lovable way) because she reminded them of her. I am trying to say, again, that there are many sensitive kids out there who might get upset over this. So this being "just a cartoon" doesn't really make the issue go away ^^
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: kmlv23 on January 24, 2012, 03:43:35 PM
What I want to know is how this always seems to come back to just stroking the bronies egos. Maybe the people in charge of the show liked the character the bronies headcanons created enough to make her a character because they wanted to? Yes, I understand how it coukd be taken in an offensive standpoint. I've even made a string attempt to stop using the term 'derp' in my own life. But it was a few minutes of cameo and didnt even have any real importance to the main plot, apart from destroying town hall, leading to the Mayor needing money to fix it. They thought of a cute, physical comedy way of providing that plot point, by way of :muffin: Pony. I thought it was odd they didn't call her Ditzy, but whatever. That was their choice. All I'm trying to say here.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: babymoondust on January 24, 2012, 03:47:46 PM
The :muffin: Pony controversy reminds me a little of the Family Guy - Down's Syndrome - Sarah Palin controversy:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Family_Guy#Sarah_Palin_controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Family_Guy#Sarah_Palin_controversy)


Can you imagine if the voice actress for :muffin: Pony herself actually had the impairment, and found people being offended by her character? >.<

It is not an exact comparison by any means, these two issues, but every time I see people being offended by :muffin: Pony I think of this story, so I just figured I'd throw it out there for general interest.




Also I wanted to give Lyra kudos for pointing this out:


Quote
I think it is more 'expected/accepted' to have goofy man characters in media who are lovable (and FORGIVEN) for their shortcomings - but women are expected to be perfect?
Homer Simpson - lovable idiot, Marge - pretty much 'perfect' wife. Same in Family Guy and maaany other cartoons and sitcoms (rash foolish husband, sensible wife).Daisy and Minnie - Perfect, but wheres is Mrs Goofy NOW? I know the older cartoons had more characters, but how popular are they now compared to the 'core' bunch we see everywhere now.In what I observe from my personal experiences, family, academic and work it SOMETIMES feels like if mistakes are made by men, others MAY (not always) be more ready to forgive them 'cause their just men afterall' but women should know better because they are 'expected'  to be more sensibleI think girls should be allowed to be goofy and much as the male characters.


Completely agreed.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Snapdragon on January 24, 2012, 04:26:47 PM
Some people just need to find things to be angry about. I think people just need to chill.
Could not agree more. It's just a cartoon, people.

Post Merge: January 24, 2012, 12:38:35 PM

Haha, well, I think that anyone who is offended by any of these characters is taking the show a little too seriously... :throw:
This is all.
Also this.

While i can't say i'm "offended".  Do you guys really need to give these sneaky stabs at people who don't feel the same way as you guys do? I don't think it's that hard to understand both views...

But, Malicieuse! You are being OVER SENSITIVE! Everyone knows that in real life, people are NEVER mocked for being mentally disabled, and no one has EVER called a mentally disabled person ':muffin: Pony' to their face or behind their back in a mocking manner! Really, you should stop worrying about these imaginary issues and focus on what's important - protecting our Sacred Right to Ableism!

Sigh. And here I was thinking that it was just Bronies who had the 'ponies can do no wrong PONIES ARE PERFECT' issue. 9_9 My bad, my bad. Honestly, FiM has had some issues before this, too - the Over a Barrel issue, the fact that Zecora is the only zebra and she speaks with an accent and has magical powers that no one understands - does it mean we aren't allowed to be upset, because it's 'just a cartoon'? News flash: cartoons impact the people who watch them, in REAL LIFE.

If some kid who is mentally disabled watches the show, and hears the dopey-pony being called ':muffin: Pony,' don't you think that will hurt them? The word ':muffin: Pony' does not exist in a vacuum - people are being mocked with that word, even today. It would be like if her name was a racial slur; just because your privileged self doesn't think that it's offensive, that's probably because you've had no experience with it. It seems incredibly insensitive to the people who ARE upset to try to deny them their right to protest the thing that upsets them.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: banditpony on January 24, 2012, 05:02:03 PM
*raises hand* I hate Snails and Snips.
  >_<   haha but it's my opinion tho'  and I don't ever care to justify my thoughts online about it.


:D Also, that's some really cool info SuniMoon.



Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Mermaid on January 24, 2012, 05:23:12 PM
I think the people who are saying "Don't take it so seriously" need to realize that this show is not targeted at them. It's targeted for small children. I think we all need to remember who it's made for.

I think it is awesome that the creators are catering to their fan base as well, but I think it was a silly decision to name and portray a character so.

Prime example, my 6 year old niece after watching the episode turned and asked what a ":muffin: Pony" was. This is not something that I wanted to expose her to.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: kmlv23 on January 24, 2012, 05:33:21 PM
Look I give up. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was attempting to merely voice my opinion the same way everyone else was. sorry.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: babymoondust on January 24, 2012, 06:08:40 PM
If some kid who is mentally disabled watches the show, and hears the dopey-pony being called ':muffin: Pony,' don't you think that will hurt them? The word ':muffin: Pony' does not exist in a vacuum - people are being mocked with that word, even today. It would be like if her name was a racial slur; just because your privileged self doesn't think that it's offensive, that's probably because you've had no experience with it.

At this point, we have had those who work with disabled people as well as people with similar impairments themselves, proclaim not only a lack of offence taken, but an actual fondness for :muffin: Pony.
When someone comes on who says they have actually been bullied or teased as a result of this character, or witnessed an account of a child being bullied as a result of this character, it would at least give the criticisms some semblance of a purpose. But to my knowledge, the only people who are saying they're offended, are the people who have no absolutely affiliation with the people who have the traits they're affiliating :muffin: Pony with, or the consequences they're linking as a result of the character.

As deeply saddening as it is, for as long as humanity exists, there will likely always be bullies and people who tease for the sake of teasing. Getting rid of :muffin: Pony isn't going to change that. Banning any or even ALL aspects of entertainment that center around "different" characters is not going to change that. It's just going to mean that everybody will be fearful of creating anything that isn't strictly PC, which has already resulted in a great many of great shows being policed, and the quality of much entertainment going down-hill.

If kids weren't going around calling one another ":muffin: Pony", it would just be something else. As I've said before, it's the reasons children take to bullying and teasing in the first place that requires focus, because... well, it's the root of the problem!
This, however is like the white guy who says he is offended, when the black guy gets a joke thrown at him in humor - when the black guy himself was not at all offended, and actually took the joke in good humor. I see this as offence for offences sake.

It seems incredibly insensitive to the people who ARE upset to try to deny them their right to protest the thing that upsets them.

I believe this is an over-reaction. The last I checked, nobody was trying to "deny" anybody the right to anything?
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Snapdragon on January 24, 2012, 06:30:28 PM
At this point, we have had those who work with disabled people as well as people with similar impairments themselves, proclaim not only a lack of offence taken, but an actual fondness for :muffin: Pony.
When someone comes on who says they have actually been bullied or teased as a result of this character, or witnessed an account of a child being bullied as a result of this character, it would at least give the criticisms some semblance of a purpose. But to my knowledge, the only people who are saying they're offended, are the people who have no absolutely affiliation with the people who have the traits they're affiliating :muffin: Pony with, or the consequences they're linking as a result of the character.


In other sites, I have heard accounts from multiple people with disabilities who are greatly upset by this portrayal of :muffin: Pony. I am not trying to silence disabled people - if they feel that this isn't insulting to them, then that is absolutely their choice. But one disabled person =/= all disabled people. And I am saying that I have seen in other communities, much smaller communities than this one, already a handful of people who are not only upset about this portrayal, but are disabled as well.

Quote
As deeply saddening as it is, for as long as humanity exists, there will likely always be bullies and people who tease for the sake of teasing. Getting rid of :muffin: Pony isn't going to change that. Banning any or even ALL aspects of entertainment that center around "different" characters is not going to change that. It's just going to mean that everybody will be fearful of creating anything that isn't strictly PC, which has already resulted in a great many of great shows being policed, and the quality of much entertainment going down-hill.


The problem is, MLP could be a great agent for change - the problem isn't that she's a clumsy, 'dopey' pony, but that the name they chose for her is essentially a slur. If they want to make a character who is mentally disabled, they can feel free to do that, but it should be a sensitive, non-stereotypical portrayal. This isn't 'deep cinema,' it's a kids' show; they need to be more mindful of their audience. (Not to say that disabled adults don't count as well, of course. I'm saying that adults can recognize when ableism occurs, but kids often cannot.)

Quote
If kids weren't going around calling one another ":muffin: Pony", it would just be something else. As I've said before, it's the reasons children take to bullying and teasing in the first place that requires focus, because... well, it's the root of the problem!
This, however is like the white guy who says he is offended, when the black guy gets a joke thrown at him in humor - when the black guy himself was not at all offended, and actually took the joke in good humor. I see this as offence for offences sake.


So ... racist jokes are okay, then, if one black guy says they're funny? Mmmhmm. :Ia

I see this issue as one that is not 'offense for offense's sake,' but 'people who are uncomfortable with stereotypes and slurs being thrown around in children's programming.' If a ton of disabled people showed up and said, "No, we're okay with this, you need to stand down," then I'd respect their wishes. But as it stands, some disabled people are saying they aren't okay with it, because it offends them. So I feel like - If I'm sensing that this is uncomfortable and not-okay, and other people who have to deal with this issue are agreeing with me, then I feel like I have a pretty legitimate reason to be uncomfortable with this thing. It doesn't mean other disabled people can't be comfortable with it, of course.

Quote
I believe this is an over-reaction. The last I checked, nobody was trying to "deny" anybody the right to anything?

Well, if you go through a thread and dismiss every other opinion that is opposite to yours with "these people need to get a life" and "calm down, it's just a cartoon," it can seem very dismissive and rude. They are not denying anyone rights (since they can't stop people from posting, after all), but it does feel like they are attempting to 'shut down' the conversation and insult/shame others into not responding. So 'deny' would be the wrong word, I think, you are right there.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Vintergatan on January 24, 2012, 06:59:13 PM
Look I give up. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was attempting to merely voice my opinion the same way everyone else was. sorry.

you shouldn't take our responses personally! They are directed to everyone here who is saying we´re overreacting ^^ not just you :)

But I must agree with Snapdragon. It might not be people's intention to dismiss our concerns, but that's exactly how it feels to me with all those "relax" posts.

I also wanted to add that I personally don't see anything *wrong* with being overly sensitive to these issues. It's not like most people can choose if they are going to be sensitive to something or not (I know I can't).


and I also agree with the point Mermaid made. I mean, if someone is complaining that South Park is being insensitive, that's where I go "well that's your problem, just don't watch it". That's because that show is aimed at older audience who can decide very well if they are insulted or not. FiM on the other hand is targeted at kids and while i´m against treating kids as, erm, dumber version of adults, there is still a level of innocence (if you will) expected of such a show. I would love to see a cartoon that would introduce a special needs character in such a way that promotes acceptance but it just seems that :muffin: Pony isn't headed that way.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: MintySocks on January 24, 2012, 07:18:29 PM
YOU PONIES ARE AWESOME!!!

I wanted to just pause here for a moment and tell you all that I am learning so much more about this issue by listening to all these opinions. I originally asked the question because I wanted to focus more on Snips and Snails and not launch into another :muffin: Pony thread, but I think this conversation has taken a good turn, and here's why: 

I've come to the opinion that ignorance about these verbal slurs CAN be almost as bad as using them. When I came to this conversation I had no idea what the term ":muffin: Pony" even meant.  I had no idea that there are many disabled people who are offended by it. I don't watch South Park or Simpsons or any of that, so I have no background except what I've learned here. I shudder to think that I could have seen "The Last Roundup" and been so amused by the character that I actually (with no harm intended) called someone that or described someone that way. God forbid my kids ever took that word to school and used it on someone without realizing its meaning. It could have been so damaging, not for sure, but potentially.

I am guilty of being in the "chill out, it's just a cartoon" crowd, but that was before I understood the meaning of it all.  I might add that in case others are as clueless as I was, I intend to extend a little grace to them before jumping all over their cases and saying "Hey you insensitive dope, you're offending people!" This is a great example of how being open to the opinions/objections of others can change a mind for the better.

*huggles to everybody who has expressed their thoughts!* :hug:
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: DazzleKitty on January 24, 2012, 07:20:06 PM
Like others said, I think people always look for things to be angry about.

I thought Snips and Snails were hysterical...especially the taller one (Snails). Some of his lines.....LMAO!!

I haven't seen the :muffin: Pony episode yet but I fear they are gonna try too hard to cater to bronies. The bad side of the brony fandom has kinda made me get a bad perception of the whole....I need to get over that.

I'm still watching the first season and I am finding that I enjoyed the earlier episodes better. I just hope they don't ruin the show. :/

Not trying to be partial to one side of the fandom. I think FiM is one of the best MLP shows of all time (almost better than Tales which I adore). But I feel alienated from my own fandom due to bronies. Weird, I know.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: hlbmlp on January 24, 2012, 07:48:38 PM
But I feel alienated from my own fandom due to bronies.
I agree with this statement.  It is peculiar having the same guys that teased me in elementary school loving ponies now.  I believe that these guys never did grow up and have the same bad habit of making fun of anything different.  That is why i dont think they should have ever called her :muffin: Pony.  If that term was around back then they would have called me and many other kids that and i don't think its right.  I also do not think it is appropriate for any little kid.  I mean we cant keep them in the dark forever, but alot of these kids go through enough as it is!  My mom works as a nurse for a center city school and it makes me cry some of the things that happen to these poor kids because of reckless and irresponsible adults.  To these kids FiM offers a haven.  A place to be happy and seclude themselves from the horrible things happening to and around them.  To have something like this in a kids show is not right.  If they have parents like the one's im talking about there will be no one to tell them what :muffin: Pony is, what is wrong and how to act around people like that.  They probably will end up using the term, not knowing what it is, and hurting another kid.  Kids are cruel, but they only get that way from all the cruel things around them.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Taxel on January 24, 2012, 08:45:33 PM
But it was a few minutes of cameo and didnt even have any real importance to the main plot, apart from destroying town hall, leading to the Mayor needing money to fix it.

Uh that was the ENTIRE point of the episode. The town hall was broken so the mayor (and maybe others, honestly I stopped paying close attention after :muffin: Pony appeared) wanted Applejack to win so she could get the money to fix it.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: kmlv23 on January 24, 2012, 10:36:35 PM
But it was a few minutes of cameo and didnt even have any real importance to the main plot, apart from destroying town hall, leading to the Mayor needing money to fix it.
Uh that was the ENTIRE point of the episode. The town hall was broken so the mayor (and maybe others, honestly I stopped paying close attention after :muffin: Pony appeared) wanted Applejack to win so she could get the money to fix it.
My point was the :muffin: Pony herself only ahows up for about 5 minutes and provides a plot point, but Nevermind. As previously stated, I give up.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: PinkRosedust on January 24, 2012, 11:16:55 PM
I hate Snails lol. And Snips. Though I just hate them because they're completely unfunny to me. I don't see them as being offensive - I see them as being sort of similar to Patrick from Spongebob (I see he's come up more than once in this discussion lol). They're dumb, but they're that same kind of dumb that you see in a lot of cartoons.

I finally got around to watching the latest episode today. I was highly disappointed that they A) called her :muffin: Pony (I was so hoping they'd use Ditzy Doo - much cuter and not offensive IMO) and B) gave her that voice (I was hoping she'd have a softer, sweeter voice..) I agree that they took it too far and catered too much to certain fans. The kind of 'dumb' they've made her is more klutzy, which, by itself (and with her eyes - which I personally found endearing) would have been fine. Even if they intended to make her somewhat mentally handicapped - that would have been kind of neat, actually. But I think they've made her into a huge stereotype that we're all supposed to laugh at. That, to me, is a shame. I don't think it was necessary for MLP. I'm not horribly offended by it, but I already feel like the character has kind of been soiled for me. :/ Bah.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Bellevi on January 25, 2012, 12:55:18 AM
I'm not a fan of Snips and Snails because in general, I'm not a fan of children's cartoons characters who are so dumb, that their behaviors could allude to mental retardation, but the mental condition is never addressed and only played up for laughs.

I think that the decision to make the name :muffin: Pony canon was taking things a bit too far. They could keep the voice because I don't think that shows are going to stop using voices that could allude to mental retardation for dumb characters but deciding to use the name is questionable.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: will2Bfree on January 25, 2012, 02:00:37 AM
First of all, let me say I only skimmed this thread. So I'm sorry if some of what I post has already been covered or doesn't completely fit in with where the current conversation is.

I wasn't aware there was any controversy with :muffin: Pony's name other than some people like to call her :muffin: Pony Hooves and to others she's Ditzy Doo. Personally, I like the name :muffin: Pony better. As far as my vocabulary is concerned, "der" is the same as "duh" and :muffin: Pony, ditzy, and dopey are all practically synonyms. Of course, they're all a little negative, but I don't find them offensive unless they're specifically said to be offensive. Usually people just mean it in a cute and affectionate way, and that's how I've always taken her name. I think there may have been a little misunderstanding. Most bronies LOVE :muffin: Pony, they're not making fun of her or trying to be mean. They really like her. Almost the whole Brony fandom I've encountered has a huge soft spot for her. I haven't seen the latest episode, so I'm not sure what this "cameo" involves, but I'd find it pretty hard to believe the other ponies are unaccepting or mean to her. Therefore, I'm not completely sure where you all think this negative role model behavior that's going to rub off on your kids is coming from.

My mother was a special ed teacher and I grew up with several mentally handicapped friends, some of whom I'm still in touch with. I've never heard anyone call a mentally disabled person :muffin: Pony; a forgetful person, maybe, but not disabled. Next time I talk to my friends I'll have to ask if they're offended by it or have ever even heard it to mean that. From what people have said, I assume the name ":muffin: Pony" has actually been used in the cartoon now? I find it hard to believe the writers and the people who approve such things, would use that name if they really thought it was a synonym for "retard". I don't think it's any different than calling her silly. It could just be a regional thing too. Maybe it does mean something different in another part of the country (or other countries all together). Perhaps, the word simply has more than one meaning. Similar meanings, but worlds apart in terms of severity. In which case, nobody's doing anyone any favors by bringing the bad definition up again and again. Let it die out. Obviously quite a number of people have never even heard it before. Language changes through people. If you keep bringing it up, and you insist it means what you say it means, then congratulations on teaching so many people a new slur. However, MLP is giving you a chance to cut that bad definition off at the knees with a whole generation of young girls.

In any case, it strikes me as kind of a "A rose by any other name..." situation. That which we call a :muffin: Pony Hooves by any other name would still be a silly, clumsy pony. hehe Can you believe I've never even thought of her as possibly being mentally handicapped? I always just thought she was a klutz who needed to focus more on what she was doing. Maybe a daydreamer. I kind of agree with what someone else said. There are tons of stupid-acting boys in cartoons, but no one jumps to their defense claiming they could have a learning disability. They're just thought of as stupid. So I assume the only real problem is her name... not the way she acts...because that would be kind of sexist.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: square on January 25, 2012, 02:37:16 AM
Well, if you go through a thread and dismiss every other opinion that is opposite to yours with "these people need to get a life" and "calm down, it's just a cartoon," it can seem very dismissive and rude. They are not denying anyone rights (since they can't stop people from posting, after all), but it does feel like they are attempting to 'shut down' the conversation and insult/shame others into not responding. So 'deny' would be the wrong word, I think, you are right there.
Thank you! It's a really close-minded attitude to take. I think there are a few people who have forgotten that this, first and foremost, is a kid's show. Kids aren't dense. They pick things up. They see :muffin: Pony: who, in the small scene she's featured, in displays no positive qualities*; has several physical traits that, when combined, come across as her being disabled; they see Rainbow Dash talk to her dismissively - and isn't RD a role model on the show? Expecting kids not to idolise her and mimic her is a bit of a stretch, and we really don't need yet another negative portrayal of (and reaction to) disability. 
 
This discussion may be small in the scheme of things, but really, it's not isolated, and it all adds up to a bigger problem. Discussion and criticism of ableism in kids show's is not useless, despite the episode already created, broadcasted, what have you. People still learn, and perhaps in the future, thanks to awareness of these problems, any potential ableism (and other -isms, it's not exclusive) can be sidestepped. Wouldn't it be nice if we no longer came across discrimination in entertainment?
 
*I personally think that was a real disservice to her character - I absolutely love the fan-depicton of :muffin: Pony as a kind, hard-working mother and mailpony who is simply clumsy and has odd eyes. One would think that if the show's creaters wanted to pander to bronies they'd use those traits, instead of something as badly thought out as this? Sure, she might be featured again and be a well-rounded character then, but maybe she won't be.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: fingerpaints on January 25, 2012, 02:49:42 AM
I think :muffin: Pony is adorable personally. I am disabled myself and have been poked fun at because of that disability, one reason why I do try not to draw attention to it. I was born with a problem with my inner ears on both sides, it is something that can't be fixed without a transplant. Anyhow, technically, I should be wearing hearing aids to help me through a normal day, but I refuse to because that draws attention to the fact that I have a disability, which I hate. I like to be treated normal, and with something hanging out of both your ears it is nearly impossible for people to forget that you have nothing wrong with you.

What I am trying to say is I don't really see what the big fuss is, unfortunately it is not a cartoon character that make fun of people with a dissability, but people. These people are often insecure themself and have to make others feel terrible about themself to make themself feel better. It's really more to be pitied.

And the constant drawing attention to characters like :muffin: Pony is just feeding in to what people want, she is a controversial character, so people become interested in why all the controversy.

Really, all she was originally was a background character that someone had made a mistake with her eyes. She wasn't even deliberate.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Pythia on January 25, 2012, 03:34:02 AM
I don't really understand the people who say "Well *I'm* not offended, so whatever!"
Is it that hard to think "Well, clearly this upsets and offends other people, so I'm going to back them up on it."
For example, I'm white. So if someone called me a racial slur, I wouldn't be personally hurt or offended by being called it - but I would still recognise that it is *offensive*, and chances are I'd tell them I didn't think that word or language should be used, at all.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I've talked to one parent in particular who has a 6 year old with wall eyes, and she quite often gets teased about it at school, and has apparently been called a 'derp' before with regards to it. Now one of the characters in her favourite show is called a name used to tease her, and is treated pretty damn badly by one of the main, supposed role model characters. How is that ok?

Watch the scene again. Remember that the show is aimed at children. Then think how a child with wall eyes or who is disabled in a similar way to :muffin: Pony (I always prefered the name Bright Eyes for her, but whatevs) might feel about that. Kids are *smart*. They're quick and sensitive and often pick up on things you might not expect. As far as I'm concerned, if that scene is enough to make even a few kids feel worse about themselves and their disabilities, it shouldn't be there.

As for the whole 'shout out to the bronies' thing, what the hell? Why do the bronies need a shout out? Especially an offensive one? It's a show aimed at young kids, especially girls. Why on earth do the bronies feel the need to own it?
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: fingerpaints on January 25, 2012, 05:51:06 AM
Pythia - I never said anywhere that I was against others having a different opinion to my own, nor do I condone teasing others over a disability, one of the reasons I said what I said. I am saying things from a perspective of someone that has been teased over a disability, I am lucky that I can at least pretend to be normal, even if I quiet often can't hear what someone is saying at least I won't be teased over a disability.

I actually have no clue what scene you are referring to, so im a bit confused. I thought :muffin: Pony was a backgroudh character, and that fans had nicknamed her, that her official name was something different?

If the show is making fun of the disabled (sorry I've only watched like 3 EPs at the moment) it should not be allowed. I don't agree with any form of discrimination, but that's what happens all the time in real life.

I have not only been discriminated against because I have a disability, but also because of my sex and race, none of these things I can help, but its a reality.

I do think that people need to cool off a bit here tho, all of you are going to have different opinions on such a controversial subject, we need to respect each others opinions, as they should ours, regardless if we agree or not, it doesn't have to be shot down either :)
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Vintergatan on January 25, 2012, 07:54:03 AM
Pythia- that's exactly the story I remember from the old forum and that's pretty much what made my mind up about this thing. And I can't even begin to imagine how many other kids have gone through exactly the same thing :(

Fingerpaints: People are getting extra upset about the latest episode in which :muffin: Pony is actually called :muffin: Pony by RD (so yeah, now it´s official) and they gave her a (questionable) voice. On top of basically destroying the Town Hall. Just to keep you in the loop :)

Also, I agree with the whole "nod to Bronies". I was actually talking to my husband about all of this yesterday (wanting to get his opinion on all of this) and he basically said (and I agree completely) that there's no need to pander to them. They already love the show so much for what it is (a kids show) so why do it? Isn't it the point, the whole awesome aspect of bronies loving something made for little kids without having to pander to them? So yeah, I completely understand people saying they are becoming alienated from the fandom by that :(
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Koudoawaia on January 25, 2012, 08:25:53 AM
I actually don't like Snips and Snails at all. Not because I think they're being offensive. I personally think people are oversensitive these days but I really don't like their designs and personalities. I think :muffin: Pony and these two are supposed to be fun silly characters and not taken offense to.Snips and Snails are just silly characters I don't like.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on January 25, 2012, 09:34:11 AM
I was so hoping they'd use Ditzy Doo - much cuter and not offensive IMO
What this really means is that we still don't know what Ditzy Doo looks like.  She's going to be the Moondancer of Ponyville.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: babymoondust on January 25, 2012, 10:45:15 AM
I don't really understand the people who say "Well *I'm* not offended, so whatever!"
Is it that hard to think "Well, clearly this upsets and offends other people, so I'm going to back them up on it."

Many of the people who don't find this offensive, also look upon taking offence in this matter a great waste of time and energy.

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For example, I'm white. So if someone called me a racial slur, I wouldn't be personally hurt or offended by being called it - but I would still recognise that it is *offensive*, and chances are I'd tell them I didn't think that word or language should be used, at all.

Do you really think that the person who used the slur would be overly concerned that you didn't approve of that language? I think it would benefit you to stop assuming that other people necessarily care about what you think about words.
 
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As I mentioned in the other thread, I've talked to one parent in particular who has a 6 year old with wall eyes, and she quite often gets teased about it at school, and has apparently been called a 'derp' before with regards to it. Now one of the characters in her favourite show is called a name used to tease her, and is treated pretty damn badly by one of the main, supposed role model characters. How is that ok?

It's not okay. But getting rid of :muffin: Pony or even the entire meme of 'derp' isn't going to stop that child getting bullied. If it wasn't "derp", it would be a different name. It isn't as though getting rid of every name in every show that could possibly be used as an insult is somehow going to cure the bullying of children. Just, no. 

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Watch the scene again. Remember that the show is aimed at children. Then think how a child with wall eyes or who is disabled in a similar way to :muffin: Pony (I always prefered the name Bright Eyes for her, but whatevs) might feel about that.

Why don't we start treating them like human beings and actually let them think for themselves whether they find it offensive or not, instead of deciding and being offended on behalf of them?

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Kids are *smart*. They're quick and sensitive and often pick up on things you might not expect. As far as I'm concerned, if that scene is enough to make even a few kids feel worse about themselves and their disabilities, it shouldn't be there.

What about if a child felt worse about his / her disabilities because there was no pony like :muffin: Pony?
What if a child with no limbs was watching MLP, and got upset because the ponies had limbs? Perhaps we should ban all media outright in case it hurts anybody.

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As for the whole 'shout out to the bronies' thing, what the hell? Why do the bronies need a shout out? Especially an offensive one? It's a show aimed at young kids, especially girls. Why on earth do the bronies feel the need to own it?

Especially an "offensive" one? You're forgetting that not everybody looks at this the same way you do.
Title: Re: How come no one hates Snails?
Post by: ashes on January 25, 2012, 10:49:48 AM
Locking as this topic has gone round and round.
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