The Toys That Made Us

[Taffeta]

So I watched it last night.

I consider myself a complete detail geek when it comes to MLP, but I don't have as many issues with this as some of the comments do above.

Yeah, nothing outside of N.America, but from my perspective as a UK person, that's natural. It's a US show, and a US toy, and they have 45 minutes in which to cover 30 years. It's not on them to branch out and cover the whole world. Over here in the UK MLP appeared on a documentary (very briefly) some years back (called I love Toys) and also the commercial for ponywear appeared (in the wrong year) in the show "I love 1983). In both cases there was much less time dedicated to MLP than this show. And a fair amount of mockery if I remember right (I think some of these may be on YT for anyone wanting to go check).

 It's also a lot better than the brony garbage documentary. So I am okay with it being just from the US POV. I've already seen what the UK managed for MLP.

Suggesting they talk to a Japanese Takara guy about Japanese MLP is the height of ridiculousness, honestly. Takara MLP lasted a very brief time, did not do very well, were not widely known about and are pretty irrelevant in the bigger picture of "we have 45 minutes to talk about MLP". This is not a documentary series about MLP, it's one episode in a bigger series about toys. Sometimes you have to take off the collector hat and remember that a bit IMO. It's a general audience nostalgia piece. It's not a collector's edition. Plus I would not want them adding in a note like, Rapunzel is worth a fortune, everyone! I'm glad that collector value and collector pricing was entirely absent from the whole thing.

The things that irked me - Lauren Faust, just generally. I don't care what she wrote in a letter when she was 10, but it does sound like the "mane six" mentality is reflected in that letter a little bit. But I don't like her particularly so that's not a surprise. Obviously she did need to be in it.

The suggestion that modern adult fans of MLP must be tied to G4. Clearly not true.

The G2 bashing...seems unnecessary, especially for Summer to say that it isn't a MLP. Remembering how contentious G2 was when it came out, it's unhelpful to feed that ideology. They could have mentioned G2 continued outside of the US here - again, I am guessing Summer would know that - but I got the feeling she was probably spliced for the bits that fit the theme of the documentary overall. But saying a previous gen of MLP isn't really MLP is kind of not cool.

The criticisms of RaMC...were not well supported really. I mean, I wasn't a fan of the TV series either, but you know, G1 animation was better than FIM. However...the only thing that really irked me was them saying something like all generations had animation but they never had an overall story. It sounded like it was feeding the idea of G2/Tales which is a Brony nonsense.

I think it went for humour. Maybe occasionally it overdid it but mostly I wasn't bothered so much by that.

I think it did what it set out to do, mostly. I didn't have huge expectations on it but it was interesting hearing the points of view on MLP in the distant past and how things came about. Especially the playset guy xD.

The overall story thing - they didn't mention backcard stories, so now I wonder who was responsible for those, as clearly not the toy design team. Obviously over here we had the comics which provided an overarching storyline and characterisations, plus a bunch of books that supported it so even though the TV series didn't really make a big splash here it didn't overly matter that much...and a lot of kids just made up their own worlds.

Also, congrats to the people whose collections happened in the titles

[CloudyGlow]

I just watched 29 minutes of it and some facts were interesting but a lot of it was just obnoxious. The tone and the narrator make my skin crawl. Anyway, bailed on it before the bronies could show up.

[Ponyfan]

The things that irked me - Lauren Faust, just generally. I don't care what she wrote in a letter when she was 10, but it does sound like the "mane six" mentality is reflected in that letter a little bit. But I don't like her particularly so that's not a surprise. Obviously she did need to be in it.

FIM has always been hit or miss for me so I was a little annoyed by the way Faust was focused on so much but that's probably me personally. It seemed to me that they were implying that Faust "saved" MLP by creating this completely different series.

Ponyfan

[Taffeta]

The things that irked me - Lauren Faust, just generally. I don't care what she wrote in a letter when she was 10, but it does sound like the "mane six" mentality is reflected in that letter a little bit. But I don't like her particularly so that's not a surprise. Obviously she did need to be in it.

FIM has always been hit or miss for me so I was a little annoyed by the way Faust was focused on so much but that's probably me personally. It seemed to me that they were implying that Faust "saved" MLP by creating this completely different series.

Ponyfan

Yes. That.

[Eighties_Otaku]

If anyone ever has a Kickstarter for a documentary on MLP I'll be more than happy to fork over money!

[Artemesia's Garden]

If anyone ever has a Kickstarter for a documentary on MLP I'll be more than happy to fork over money!

I agree and would support this.

[Cheshire_Raptor]

I posted this in a thread I started about Wingless Firefly World's Smallest MLP because I did a search and this thread didn't come up, so if you don't mind (and sadly even if you do) I'm gonna just drop my thoughts here:

My top take-away is RUMP DESIGNS!!! I've always called them cutie marks, and those who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show! Although Taffeta did give me a lesson that they were pretty much dubbed rump designs in the UK and were even on marketing material. I did not know this.
 

I was happy to find out why there were washers in the G1 ponies. They sort of pushed that joke to the limit however. And then toppled off the edge like a G1 with  no washers. *cough*

Feed the Beast was FREAKING ANNOYING. 

Crack Pipe Pony!! I NEVER saw those before! And of course now I want them.

I was annoyed also at that they touched on how G2 don't look like ponies but completely ignored the fact that the current ponies ARE NOT PONIES EITHER.

Yes, unpopular opinion I have is that if it doesn't looking like a pony in shape, it is not a pony. Bubble heads, huge eyes and making them into humans, no thanks.

And yes, I would have bought ponies that were marked like real life ponies. I was sort of drooling over that pure black one and brown and white one Bonnie was holding in the beginning.

I think it says something that these dolls lasted for YEARS without an actual story. Lauren, in my opinion didn't make things better. I haven't watched the FiM show at all because the ponies have bloated heads and there is only ONE of the originals.

Yeah, it's nice that Rainbow Dash was based on badass Firefly, Pinkie Pie based on perky Surprise, Rarity based on fashionista Sparkler, Fluttershy based on gentle Posey, Twilight Sparkle based on Twilight and of course AppleJack is the only one to remain, but got cowboyed up. Could have easily used all the originals and STILL had these other ponies.

Sort of surprised they didn't touch more on Meghan to be honest.

I LOVED seeing the collections at the end and know a few of you guys made it in there so congrats!!

Ponies Forever

[TheBeatlesPkmnFan42]

My top take-away is RUMP DESIGNS!!! I've always called them cutie marks, and those who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show! Although Taffeta did give me a lesson that they were pretty much dubbed rump designs in the UK and were even on marketing material. I did not know this.
 

Re: cutie marks - the term never existed until G3. Therefore, it only canonically applies to G3 and G4 ponies.

[Zapper]

I was annoyed also at that they touched on how G2 don't look like ponies but completely ignored the fact that the current ponies ARE NOT PONIES EITHER.

Preach. Their disdain of G2 merely comes from the fact they flopped in the US and probably because they were made by Kenner peeps.
The first version of G4 looked like G2 babies, downwards turned snout and all.

[Cheshire_Raptor]

So I have learned. But since I didn't actually start officially collecting MLP until 2010 -ish, I just use cutie mark. Although I may change to rump design as I like the sound. Or I may end up using something else entirely pulling it from my rumpass. 

My top take-away is RUMP DESIGNS!!! I've always called them cutie marks, and those who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show! Although Taffeta did give me a lesson that they were pretty much dubbed rump designs in the UK and were even on marketing material. I did not know this.
 

Re: cutie marks - the term never existed until G3. Therefore, it only canonically applies to G3 and G4 ponies.

[brightberry]

I was annoyed also at that they touched on how G2 don't look like ponies but completely ignored the fact that the current ponies ARE NOT PONIES EITHER.

Preach. Their disdain of G2 merely comes from the fact they flopped in the US and probably because they were made by Kenner peeps.
The first version of G4 looked like G2 babies, downwards turned snout and all.

I felt that Summer's interview was heavily edited.  She could have been relaying the community's initial reaction to them.  After all, she did have a g2 right there in her hands.  Would she have one if she hated them that much?

[PinkRosedust]

I found it entertaining but have the same complaints that have been mentioned several times already. RaMC is still the best MLP cartoon ever in my eyes. I loved it as a kid and still love it. I don't recall being scared of any scenes from it, but oddly enough I do recall being scared of Hydia from the movie. I was surprised at the negative things being said about it.

It bothered me that they didn't mention G2 lasting longer outside the US but whatever.

I do wish they would have showed more of the early artwork/prototypes and such that was chillin in the background during several scenes but I get that there's only so much they can fit in one episode.

Overall I think it was pretty good as a show that is meant to appeal to a wider audience. It's cool that they interviewed several people who helped to create MLP and get it going way back then.

What is the white and pink pony with the clear wings?

That is Dallas from the toyline My Little Angel.

[Zapper]

After all, she did have a g2 right there in her hands.  Would she have one if she hated them that much?

I don't really care if she hates G2 or not. Everybody is entitled to their preferences.
The point is that G2 babies look like G4 in many ways and so do G3.5.
So in general I don't understand the "G2 are not this and that" mindset while G4 gets love. A lot of it has to do with the US marketing. I wonder if people would feel so strongly about G2 if they had a guy-approved hit TV show back then.

A lot of the interviews got cut as part of the editing of the show, I realize that. But the negative framing is what matters.
That's why I am not the biggest fan of TTTMU. It's not really a doc, it's more of an entertainment/opinion piece considering the makers are always going in biased (already evident in what brands get picked... girl toys are only ever 1/4 per season. She-Ra did not even get her own episode, she was crammed in with He-Man).

[Taffeta]

On the subject of Summer - I don't think they made her look great with the way her interview was cut. And she's absolutely allowed to hate G2 (I don't know if she does) but there needed to be more context. The idea that everyone hated G2 when it came out is not true. It's not even true in the US, where it lasted such a short amount of time. In collecting terms, there were people who hated them violently and people who accepted and liked them a lot. That's why the whole community blew up how it did. It was a much smaller community divided by whether or not they liked G2 ponies for a stupid amount of time - but G2 came out in 1997 and this was still violently going on in 1999.

AND THEN even when G2 had gone from the US stores, there were people over there who complained that the 'good g2s' were coming out only in Europe, and I remember shipping a few Silverswirls stateside, as well as trading a Hip Holly I picked up as a double in France in summer 1999.

Obviously that's more complicated and nuanced than the show suggested because it implied nobody ever bought or wanted them - but it's actually not true. Probably the US sales were not what Hasbro wanted, so they pulled them, but if they had been a total disaster, they would not have continued in other regions, where they were successful. It's a whitewash of the real G2 story...

So even to say the fandom didn't consider them real MLP is incorrect. There were some who felt that way. But there were also a good number who didn't.

BUT The toys that made us isn't really a toy documentary show so much as entertainment, as has been said. It's for a generic audience and trying to pick on nostalgia, not inform the collector (that said I was interested by the early production stuff because we don't know any of that for the UK line and why decisions were made/ponies were created, probably never will, either).

I don't have a problem with it overall except the over-emphasis on Lauren Faust and child-Lauren's interpretation of ponies. I actually did wonder if child lauren's letter "I want bubbles why aren't you selling her any more" has any relationship to us getting the m6 over and over and hating it. I mean, you didn't get all of the range, Lauren? Sorry about that, but a lot of us a: could not have afforded to do that anyway and were lucky to get ONE from a line and b: often didn't get the one we really wanted because of distribution fail. Did we write to Hasbro to moan about it? No, because the range G1 had meant choice and alternatives available.

Something G4 doesn't have...

And yeah, I had ponies I desperately wanted and never saw - mostly because Hasbro UK put them in our books but then never sold them here - but by ten years old I had also accepted that sometimes you don't get what you want all the time, and that's not a reason to subject every kid to the same pony over and over again until you do.

I may be overthinking the inclusion of that letter, but it does seem like a validation of G4's mane 6 policy.

[brightberry]

Oh, I wasn't trying to say Summer wasn't allowed to dislike G2.  It's just that she was holding one in her hand when she was talking about G2.  It just made me think that some editing happened that didn't give her complete thoughts on the subject.  I also think that a lot more interviews would have to happen for them to convey the full story of G2.

An A&E Documentary might be more nuanced and intriguing.   

Or as suggested before, we could do our own.