Explanation and timeline of Pierlala and Tak Rapunzel transaction

[Galactica]

A very similar scenario occurred with me, over several THOUSAND dollars, and that's why I can't have a Paypal account anymore. 

Paypal took their money from the credit card we provided, then reversed it (though it still showed on the card!) then took from the joint bank account.  The bank account went $0.43 into "overdraft" because they process the largest transactions FIRST, so our bank locked our accounts, charged every service fee they could think of, and refused to help us figure out things on the Paypal end due to "privacy concerns".  JOINT bank account guys!  You can tell either of us anything about that account! 

Paypal never explained why they "ghosted" a second charge through our CC - which by the way, WAS charged (as well as our bank account), nor did we ever receive any refund, explanation or apology.  All they could do was tell us, "If you are unhappy with our services, we recommend de-activating your Paypal account.  Then you won't be able to use it.  That should solve your problem!"   

If I TRIED to open a new one, Paypal would immediately ban the account as we are on their "blacklist" to NEVER open an account in our names AGAIN.  Because we cannot trust Paypal.    Of course they think it's OUR personal problem and they were happy to blame the bank too, but yeah?  Paypal?  You STOLE at least $1000 from us!  I will NEVER forgive that!

Hmm, if this is a regular practice- it sure seems like a class action to me. 

[Taffeta]

I used to be a middleman for friends in the US and there are a couple of long term friends I would still do that for because we've known eachother a long time and they would do the same for me - but the internet is so much less innocent now, and it's so much more complicated. With things like confirmed addresses and all the details you need, it becomes a nightmare.

I remember when Paypal first came on the scene and people were suspicious of using it (vs sending cash in the post, believe it or not) because of all the details they needed. At the time it was a US only company so there were some risks but it somehow seemed a lot less complicated when it wasn't so huge and global. Now it's associated with so many private businesses and the potential for problems are great.

I am very glad this whole thing has now been resolved. I think it doesn't hurt to just all of us be wary of giant internet organisations of any kind, just because the bigger the organisation the more chance of errors, issues and lack of communication. The bigger a company, the worse the customer service tends to be.

So sorry to hear what happened to your account, LBS.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Hmm, if this is a regular practice- it sure seems like a class action to me. 

Unfortunately we have VERY different laws regarding law suits here in Canada, especially with class actions and also going against a US company
Too bad that was my welcome to Canada and the end of my active purchasing and collecting..

[Tak]

Maybe that's why it was finally resolved... if this has happened to others. I was getting ready to find a way to pay a second time when I brought a lawyer in since I get free legal aid. It was after my bank's lawyer contacted PayPal that it was eventually resolved. Worrisome. Either way, I'm sure much more wary in all transactions now.

On another note, my brother (computer genius who makes prototype chips), said that Apple has come out with a new way to pay through your Apple id. It's supposed to be extended since all initial tests were successful and you can use the iwatch with it now. Apple is so proprietary, he's not sure how they'll handle expanding it.

[banditpony]

The length of resolving a charge back can take up to approx 75~90 days. And the opposite person gets that money frozen until it's resolved.

It's not just PayPal, its also the card issuer. It states this on PayPal's FAQ, and other online pay sites give a similar length.

Paypal's customer support sucks, I don't disagree.

I'm happy that it's finally over for everyone.

[LadyMoondancer]

I've been the middleman a few times and luckily everything went smoothly.  I don't know what I'd do if it was a situation like this where Paypal charged one party twice.  It's scary, especially considering this could also happen in a regular sale, where there isn't a middleman!

It doesn't pertain to this instance, but in cases where I am the middleman I ask for payment to be sent to me as a gift and get a written agreement that I will NOT be held responsible if the package gets lost in the mail after I send it.  I am glad to pass packages along as a favor, but only if I am not facing a monetary risk.  That's too much to ask--for me, at least.

[banditpony]

I've been the middleman a few times and luckily everything went smoothly.  I don't know what I'd do if it was a situation like this where Paypal charged one party twice.  It's scary, especially considering this could also happen in a regular sale, where there isn't a middleman!

It doesn't pertain to this instance, but in cases where I am the middleman I ask for payment to be sent to me as a gift and get a written agreement that I will NOT be held responsible if the package gets lost in the mail after I send it.  I am glad to pass packages along as a favor, but only if I am not facing a monetary risk.  That's too much to ask--for me, at least.

Just an FYI (mostly to everyone), getting a payment with friends and family doesn't protect you from a chargeback if the buyer paid with a CC. I'm not sure if a written agreement protects you, but I suppose it doesn't hurt?

[LadyMoondancer]

I've been the middleman a few times and luckily everything went smoothly.  I don't know what I'd do if it was a situation like this where Paypal charged one party twice.  It's scary, especially considering this could also happen in a regular sale, where there isn't a middleman!

It doesn't pertain to this instance, but in cases where I am the middleman I ask for payment to be sent to me as a gift and get a written agreement that I will NOT be held responsible if the package gets lost in the mail after I send it.  I am glad to pass packages along as a favor, but only if I am not facing a monetary risk.  That's too much to ask--for me, at least.

Just an FYI (mostly to everyone), getting a payment with friends and family doesn't protect you from a chargeback if the buyer paid with a CC. I'm not sure if a written agreement protects you, but I suppose it doesn't hurt?

The written agreement is to make sure the buyer and I are on the same page.  I want an understanding in place ahead of times so their aren't any nasty surprises for either me or the buyer.  Does it protect me legally?  No, it's just me saying "Hey, here are my terms for me being a middleman.  Are they acceptable to you?  If not, let's not proceed." and them saying "Yes, those terms are acceptable."  (The buyer doesn't have to sign a legal document or anything, lol.)

It would be entirely possible for someone to agree, but then proceed with a Paypal chargeback against me anyway.  But in that case they would be an untrustworthy trader who lies, and I would leave feedback to that effect.

[Stormness_1]

I've been the middleman a few times and luckily everything went smoothly.  I don't know what I'd do if it was a situation like this where Paypal charged one party twice.  It's scary, especially considering this could also happen in a regular sale, where there isn't a middleman!

It doesn't pertain to this instance, but in cases where I am the middleman I ask for payment to be sent to me as a gift and get a written agreement that I will NOT be held responsible if the package gets lost in the mail after I send it.  I am glad to pass packages along as a favor, but only if I am not facing a monetary risk.  That's too much to ask--for me, at least.

Just an FYI (mostly to everyone), getting a payment with friends and family doesn't protect you from a chargeback if the buyer paid with a CC. I'm not sure if a written agreement protects you, but I suppose it doesn't hurt?

The written agreement is to make sure the buyer and I are on the same page.  I want an understanding in place ahead of times so their aren't any nasty surprises for either me or the buyer.  Does it protect me legally?  No, it's just me saying "Hey, here are my terms for me being a middleman.  Are they acceptable to you?  If not, let's not proceed." and them saying "Yes, those terms are acceptable."  (The buyer doesn't have to sign a legal document or anything, lol.)

It would be entirely possible for someone to agree, but then proceed with a Paypal chargeback against me anyway.  But in that case they would be an untrustworthy trader who lies, and I would leave feedback to that effect.

I think you would find that in most places, that would constitute a contract. I'm not up on the laws in your country or state, but from what I know of our own legal system (most western countries tend to be similar in this regard) a PM or email constitutes written communication, and continuing with a transaction is deemed acceptance of the proposed written terms. You'd most likely be fine.

[Tak]

I'm just glad it's finally over, it did finally get resolved, and I learned a whole lot.

The length of resolving a charge back can take up to approx 75~90 days. And the opposite person gets that money frozen until it's resolved.

It's not just PayPal, its also the card issuer. It states this on PayPal's FAQ, and other online pay sites give a similar length.

Paypal's customer support sucks, I don't disagree.

I'm happy that it's finally over for everyone.

At first PayPal kept saying 80 days at the most, supervisors, too. Then they started saying something different every time I contacted them, telling me I needed to do things that they already had told me to (and I had done), being downright rude, refusing to get a supervisor, and denying contact that my bank has proof of. It honestly could be a fluke. Any company is going to have issues. PayPal certainly went above and beyond to get me back. All that really matters is that we're all going to be ok.

[rybett]

Just curious, with the way PP was acting: did you ever try invoking the "please pull such and such a phone call for review"?   
Might help someone in the future.  And yes, the important bit is that everyone is OK. 

[karrie91]

What a terrible situation. Makes me really shady of paypal. I try to use my debit card/credit card whenever I pay for something vs paypal. But sometimes that can't happen for certain situations. Glad it resolved itself. I can't imagine being in that situation..

[Tak]

Just curious, with the way PP was acting: did you ever try invoking the "please pull such and such a phone call for review"?   
Might help someone in the future.  And yes, the important bit is that everyone is OK. 

I can't speak for pier, but I kept dates written down and asked about previous calls and was told they didn't exist.