A question about price checks

[Tzan19]

Sorry I  don't know if this post is verging on a mad rant and I know this in general is a totally subjective thing and obviously depends on a number of factors but for my own sanity I have to ask.

Price checks.....I feel like I get it wrong a lot! 

Mostly I feel I pay too much (does everyone feel that way in general lol), don't get me wrong I know at some point everyone will pay too much for a pony they really want or a rare pony but I hate the thought of paying too much on every pony I buy. 

 My general thought on this is that this is aggravated by the fact that in the UK obviously ponies are not as plentiful in the first place therefore as a UK buyer most of what I buy is either from the U.S , where pony prices are great however you then have to account for the additional shipping and customs charges which often cancels out the great price or bought from eBay where I feel prices are often inflated AND you have shipping on top.  I recently put my collection in to KLECT and was not impressed with the value it gave compared to the number I have on my spreadsheet for what I have paid, but again I guess this is based on a U.S market where supply and demand is different.

On the flip side I have recently had offers by sellers (arena not eBay)which I have felt are too much or I have made offers which the sellers have said are too low.  Whenever I have requested or looked at archives for price checks they always seem low in comparison to eBay or prices asked by sellers.  From this I have gathered that I must be getting it wrong somewhere. 

So I guess my questions are

- To the moderators and people with years of experience in pony pricing what method do you use to price?

- Is there a significant difference between arena prices and eBay prices due to sellers on eBay looking for more profit /taking advantage and arena members playing more fairly?

-Do prices change due to inflation plus the fact the every year every pony becomes older and hence more scarce?

-Do other UK buyers feel that they pay more and just accept that that's just how things are (i.e ponies are more expensive here as they are less available) and if so is there a way you work out the value or your collection vs what you paid (in my head this should be equal if you got it right)

As my collection grows this is concerning me more ( I now have nearly 200 ponies) both in terms of if I ever come to sell them and in terms of insurance.  Am I just overthinking it all?  I would loves everyone's thoughts on this (and how other people work out what to pay or justify what they have paid!  ).

Oh and P.S can I get a price check on Rosedust, no wings, faded hair please.

[LadyMoondancer]

With eBay, as a seller, I learned the hard way "start 7-day auction at 99 cents" will no longer give you an auction ending with a fair price.  It will give you an auction ending with a very low price.  I think this is because it's harder for buyers to find auctions, for some reason, or maybe because buyers would rather go for BIN items instead of waiting 7 days to see if they won something.

That being the case, I now only list in two ways: fixed price items, or auction items where the starting bid is pretty much what I want the ending bid to be.  (So, pretty similar to a fixed price item.)

And if you're selling a fixed-price item anyway, you might as well aim high because you have to cover the eBay and PayPal fees somehow.

Also, this may seem weird, but I don't feel like listing BIN items for a low price on eBay really helps them sell any faster.  Unless it's something super rare or super low priced.

[Tzan19]

Yes, I have to admit that the seller fees thing did not occur to me. 

Also just to be sure I didn't mean to imply that all eBay sellers are bad.   

Again U.S prices on eBay are a lot fairer than U.K it's just the shipping and customs prices are crazy. I know this is just the way it is and can't be helped.

But for example - Peachy (just because she's one of the most common)

Bluerose's price check list $4.50, my guess is an arena pc would be about the same
KLECT price $5 for a good loose version
U.S eBay roughly $7-10 (just a quick glance) - plus $11 min shipping to uk but for the purposes of just a like for like price never mind that.
UK eBay £6-£12  ($8-16) plus shipping.

 See? Quite a difference   

[Stormness_1]

Ebay prices used to be far cheaper than what you'd pay on the arena, but now it's pretty much the opposite. While arena sellers do take ebay trends into account for high-value or 'trending' ponies, they tend to move slower and be more stable than Ebay prices. My issue is that arena sellers tend to be moreso based in the US, which is the most expensive shipping in the world for me, and there's no way to filter threads by seller's region, and that's why I still use Ebay sites and Gumtree, it works out cheaper for me that way, the elusive lot where non-collectors have what I'm looking for with local shipping or pick-up. That, however is getting much harder to find. So I've turned to the UK and some European countries, where when the Aussie dollar is good (not like now, hence not buying atm) shipping works out about the same as local shipping. Lots of Aussie collectors seem to be getting out ATM, but local pricing is through the roof. I know of three collectors who've liquidated recently, and I've not bought from any of them, too rich for me, but the ponies are selling - prices are nuts here, because it's still cheaper than importing right now. Two or three years ago, I would buy entire collections or large portions of them in one go, because the prices were fair. It's just one of those things. Prices fluctuate.

It's still possible to buy at the right price, you just have to know what those prices are, and grab them when they pop up, however rare that may be. Don't isolate yourself to one platform, look everywhere, online and offline. For me, the thrill of a bargain found is as thrilling as opening the package, and having the pony. Each pony's sentimental value is amplified by the pride I feel in having made a good purchase. Not to mention I can be competitive selling when I let them go, because I didn't pay that much in the first place. That said, I prefer to restore ponies than buy them mint. The mint pony buyer is at a greater mercy to 'collector prices', because sources are more limited. It's ultimately up to you what you pay. I'm a bargain hunter, but you may be a mint pony enthusiast, or some place in between.

[Tak]

http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/bluerose9978/PRICE/
Is a good reference.

I'm in the U.S. so all the euro and nirvana seem very high. EBay always seems higher, unless it's a large lot, but they do have to pay their fees. Most on the arena I've found to be fair. Shipping can be half the price for overseas. I never sell my ponies for more than I paid, but I'm a weirdo. I believe shelti's prices in the classifieds are fair consistently. I've bought from several other arena members who keep their prices on the low end. As long as you're not looking at nirvana ponies. Etsy has some fair priced ponies as well.

Another thing you could do is have a friend on the arena buy them where they're less costly and then ship them to you.

[Sugarberry]

I think part of the trouble you're having is that you're trying to convert standard pounds into dollars.  My husband immigrated from N. Ireland almost 9 years ago now and he's only just now understanding the big conversion picture and US taxes!  There is a temptation when your own country has a higher value currency than a second country where you are going to visit- or in this case purchase from- to say 'things are so cheap there!'.  The US *used* to do this with Canada and Mexico.  The truth is that the prices are pretty equal across the board when being looked at by the general populations.  Here's a couple examples:

Take a box of Kellogg's Frosted Flakes (in the US), Frosties (in the UK).  Both are going to be about 3.50 in their respective currencies.  Now add a pound sign, or a dollar sign in front of it.  It will be almost identical.
A standard bottle of Coke will be roughly £1.79 in UK, $1.79 here in the US.
Minimum wage prevailing here in much of the US is right around $7.25.  In the UK it was less, but from the US, about 15% of it is taxed and if you're self-employed, it's a 30% federal income tax, plus state tax on top of that.  (Many places with minimum wage do not have medical insurance added in anymore either and now there are financial penalties for people who do not have any medical insurance.)

Here's a real example from last week.  Going to a UK TRU, my mother-in-law just picked up a £4.99 brushable G4 for me.  The exact same brushable here in the US is $4.99.  Still more than a half hour of x-type of work in either country.  It's not something that is easily understood, especially when looking from the point of a more valuable currency.  Verrrrrrrrry tempting to play the conversion game!!!   

Now, have a look at your example of Peachy- $4.50- 5 in the US for her.
£6.00 in the UK.  It's actually pretty dead on, even though it seems more expensive to you. 
(Now for giggles, look at trying to buy anything against any country or visit any other country with a higher value currency from a US position!) 
 

Ebay has its own troubles, because they've gotten out of hand with listing fees, ending fees, then paypal fees.  Add to that the very one-sided 'can't leave non-paying bidders' bad feedback thing--- and there's only one thing to say:  "ugh".     Take all that nonsense away, get friendly and reliable folks who will trade or sell and prices drop a bit- but mailing is still a pain.  We used to be allowed 2 suitcases up to whatever 30 stone was in weight- going to visit in Ireland.  Now it is one suitcase each, I think.... 24 stone(?)- and one carry-on- if you carry a purse (even a small one), that counts as a carry-on now.  We can't even offer to bring things back over for friends anymore, and the planes are packed like sardines.   Figure all that in and even $20.00 mailing can seem cheap now! It can take the fun out of collecting in a hurry unless you're dealing with nice collectors who will trade or sell fairly.
   

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I feel your pain.  At least the sterling pound is worth much more than the Canadian dollar! 

[LadyMoondancer]

No worries, I didn't think you were suggesting eBay sellers were bad.  Heck, I get frustrated by eBay prices too!

One of the reasons I sell on eBay, though, is that I feel like it's become harder to sell common G1s and G3s on message boards over the years. 

Like, I feel most collectors who wanted a concave foot Cotton Candy already got a concave foot Cotton Candy.  Of course there are new collectors just starting out, but there are a looot of older collectors who also have boxes of concave Cotton Candies ready to sell the new members, LOL.  So even when I price stuff pretty low (much lower than my eBay auctions) on good - excellent condition ponies, it seems hard to sell common stuff. 

Does anyone else feel that way?  Or have any selling tips?

[applejackbunny]

I'm in the UK and I'm so glad you posted this Tzan! Thank you. I also thought I was the only one, constantly getting it wrong and paying way over the odds for ponies 

You are not alone. I think it's just one of those things, though, and you just have to be very, very patient until something crops up at what you feel is a reasonable price to pay, or alternatively, only buy from sellers on eBay and the Arena who are also based in the UK, even if that leaves you with a much smaller pool to choose from...

[lostpony]

Hi I'm new so I'll jump in with a new buyer perspective for what it's worth!

First of all, keeping a spreadsheet for what you've paid?  That's accounting!  I wonder how many do that and how many are just in a muddled half-blinded feeding frenzy like me.  I scoop up whatever looks good on eBay and I have gotten a couple of batches here on the arena and I am astounded by how many commons I can get all at once in much cleaner condition here than the well-played-with lots I seem to find on eBay...so I have a bunch already that are really dirty and frizzy from ebay and so far one big lot from the arena that both arrived a few days ago and I can poke through those and see what I want to do with one here or there....cleaned up one pony so far! thanks to advice from WingsofMasquerade.

My idea is to "average down" the prices by scooping up cheap ones while not looking too close at what I've paid....I'm reaching a point where I need to be a little more affirmative about what I buy now but I have plenty here to keep me busy, somewhere between 50 and 100 ponies with maybe ten at most worthy of display at this point...and it's time to make a little acrylic display shelf to protect and enjoy those few, that's the next step.

As a newbie I am grateful for a place to buy cleaner, better-described commons cheap like here.

Last thoughts about value:  I assume there will be more and more new collectors and there are only just so many G1 ponies in existence (even though it seems to be a great number) so, eventually those ponies have to spread across all collectors and those prices must someday go up!  But I hope not before I get all mine

[gabumon]

This isn't a regional issue but something ive come to terms with is:  You can't really get into toy collecting and expect to make money.   Over the years here and my sales on ebay too is that there's no money here.  Most people i know do it for fun and try to "break even" or even loose money and be okay with it as a hobby cost.

The thing is - when people want to "be done" with it and sell and move on - you can't really expect to make all that money back and profit even.  It's not possible for your average toy collector.  If were talking 100 year old antiques- ya sure that's a place where you could profit.   

Otherwise I think half the time I've sold on here on eBay i have either lost or barely made even.  Only a select handful of MLP could you buy and sell for a profit - but that would likely take an initial investment or a generous benefactor who didnt know/care about their value.

my two cents.  In the end  I'm here for the fun - I don't buy just to resell because it doesnt profit me.  If i ever decide to stop collecting I'll likely donate mine to my kids or charity.

[Tzan19]

Thanks all for taking the time to give a bit of a wider perspective... think I feel better 

There are things I had not considered such as sellers fees and the currency conversion often messes with my head so thanks Sugarberry you answer has put that into a bit more perspective for me.

One thing I do agree with wholeheartedly is that the sellers here are generally fantastic (Tak I believe I bought from you a few ponies for very reasonable prices that I had been looking for here for ages, the same goes for Shelti who is great  ) I guess I just wish there were more in the UK!

I am also kind of glad that other people feel the same way, I guess maybe the most evil of all is those darn shipping costs!!

Oh and yeah...I keep a spreadsheet...is that weird    Mostly as a catalogue of my collection but yeah I like to know what I have paid out too.  I'm not too concerned about making any profit but I guess everyone would like to think that you are not blindly and stupidly paying a ridiculous price for something that is not worth it, even if that's not true.  I do also sometimes take the notion that it all doesn't matter, and oddly enough if hubby asks me how much the collection is worth I usually tell him that in another 20 years time perhaps it will be worth nothing at all and that it's more about the fact that I get enjoyment from it (but maybe that's more to do with him not finding out how much I have sent lol!)

Plus today it also occurred to me that I stopped smoking very shortly before I started pony collecting so from now on I think maybe I should stick to the train of thought of pony collecting is far better for my health plus I have something to show for the money spent and let that be that

[dragonfly]

For pricing, I track sold ponies on the forums plus sold on eBay. BIN asking price has very little to do with actual price although someone will always eventually buy most higher BINs either because they're inexperienced or don't want to wait for the pony to come along again.

Certain "sets" are always more popular than others at any given time and it drives the prices up. I've seen it happen with wingers, second wave princesses, TAF babies, sea ponies, various MOs, some limited availability G3s and European variants. There was a time when MOC Greeks barely sold for a decent price on eBay. It ebbs and flows. One time I bought Mimic for $32. One time I bought Mimic for $160.

Prices don't necessarily change as ponies get older, they more often change with collecting trends and what's popular. I am moderately surprised at the low prices of G3s right now, but G1s are classic vintage and G4s are trendy and the poor G3s are being cast away by their high school and college age original little girls. I say give those another 5-7 years to build up nostalgia.

If you watch the sales threads you can get to know which eBay sellers are active on here and find fair prices for their stuff on eBay as well. With a couple notable exceptions, most high-price eBay sellers aren't involved with the pony community as a whole.

[Sugarberry]

Tzan, keeping a spreadsheet is not weird at all!  It's a very wise thing to do.

Now for the more important thing-  CONGRATS on giving up smoking!!!!   
You can do it!  The ponies will help you too, I'm sure of it.  You're 100% right that all that money you were spending will have some return later and more enjoyment for you with your collection.  (Not to mention it's better for you and your hubby too!)  Way to go!!!    Happy faces, bright colors, it's a daily sweetness to be surrounded by them, or any other collection for that matter.
And- don't get down with mailing.  Here's one other idea to consider: I used to have a friend up in Scotland who went by the name Lynx ages ago.  We went to visit her in 2000.  She eventually fell out of collecting but I'm sure there are other collectors up there too.  Maybe if you're looking to get stuff from overseas, try arranging a single trade with a friend or two from England.  One box, one trade and one mailing cost to get it over the ocean.  Just make sure they have good trader feedback.  Once its over in the kingdom, it'd be a lot less expensive to divvy up.  Lots of collectors are in England, and they have pony meets too.  Just a thought!   

[gullideth]

That said, I prefer to restore ponies than buy them mint. The mint pony buyer is at a greater mercy to 'collector prices', because sources are more limited. It's ultimately up to you what you pay. I'm a bargain hunter, but you may be a mint pony enthusiast, or some place in between.

This!  I will take a fixer upper pony over a mint pony every time.  Re-storing a pony is fun and I really feel like the pony is mine after the process is complete.  I love transforming them into a beautiful pony again.  Baity ponies are usually much cheaper too.