The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => MLP Nirvana => Topic started by: kasin on March 09, 2017, 06:49:29 AM
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I know very little about other Generations, are there any non G1 Nirvanas?
Are there any exclusive non G1 ponies that were not avalable in North America OR Europe? (not fast food toys, but proper ponies sold on store shelves)
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I think one of the qualifications to classify a pony as a "Nirvana" was that it had to be G1.
As far as non-US/Euro ponies from other generations, I think there were some G3 ponies made & sold in Mexico, Brazil, and/or some other limited South American markets. Most G2's had a wide release throughout Europe, but I think there were a small number of variations that had smaller country-specific releases.
I primarily collect G1's so hopefully someone more knowledgeable about newer generations can give a better answer. :bigups:
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KKV is correct, the term "nirvana" only applies to G1 ponies.
There are however G2, G3 and G4 prototypes :)
KKV mentioned the G3's that sold in South America and Mexico. I think these were made in China, so they'd be an exclusive pony.
http://mylittlewiki.org/wiki/G3_Exclusive_Ponies
Love pkw xxx
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Is the term nirvana exclusively G1 only because there are no non HK/China productions in later generations? What would we even call a non G1 produced outside HK/China?
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The term nirvana was defined a long time ago by then moderator JLM, when the MLParena was first founded.
The term nirvana covers first generation ponies that were made in foreign countries (not Hong Kong and China), along with rare variations and prototypes from Hong Kong/China.
The term was introduced before we fully understood the release patterns of some ponies. This is why ponies such as Nightlight are considered nirvana and yet have a China hoof stamp. They were put under the nirvana umbrella before it was understood they were a regional release, rather than being made in Germany.
I am trying to recall what nirvana ponies were once called by folks in the UK mailing group. I remember Taffeta and Reaper Fox had a way of describing them instead of the using term nirvana, but it escapes me at the moment :blush:
If there wasn't the term nirvana, such ponies could be simply known as "ponies not made in HK or China" or simply by the country they were made in :)
Love pkw xxx
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In my mind, i consider some g3 as nirvana like the giant babyzillas or the oddball mexicans that ended up in border states. But in general, its only G1 ponies.
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Another way of looking at it was that, with G1, Hasbro licensed other toy companies and factories around the world to make and sell MLP in their own countries. Normal release ponies were those manufactured by Hasbro directly in China and Hong Kong. "Nirvana" ponies were manufactured by companies like Top Toys, El Greco, etc. for a local market (hence the many variations from the standard Hasbro releases). Some ponies manufactured by Hasbro in China, Hong Kong, etc., were released only regionally (primarily in various parts of Europe) and are a grey area; kind of "honorary" Nirvanas because they had a very limited distribution, but not "true" Nirvanas in the eyes of some because they were still manufactured by Hasbro in its Asian factories.
With subsequent generations, Hasbro has not sublicensed the MLP line to other factories and companies, for the most part (not sure about the Mexican G3s and Japanese G2 keychains), so that's why there are no Nirvanas.
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There was one wave of G4 Fashion Styles that were manufactured in India, does that count as Nirvana since they were seemingly only released in Australia?
They were the Rainbow Dash and Rarity in their gala dresses. I have pictures of the ponies but not of their hoof markings, but they definitely said India.
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There was one wave of G4 Fashion Styles that were manufactured in India, does that count as Nirvana since they were seemingly only released in Australia?
They were the Rainbow Dash and Rarity in their gala dresses. I have pictures of the ponies but not of their hoof markings, but they definitely said India.
they say made in India on them?? interesting! Have you seen one in person? I'd love to hear how the paint, plastic etc compares to China versions.
I noticed a brag post with G2 hair variants too....
The term Nirvana was coined before, or in the early years of G3 (I was active then, but I'm blurry about exactly when since I was TP exclusive at that time and the term stated with the Arena). There was a lot of negativity about G2 then as well so keeping the nirvana term G1 generation specific fits the collector attitudes of that time. A lot has changed since then and I'm wondering if it's worth updating the definition to account for other generations?
I'd like to see a discussion on more clearly defining the demi-nirvanas like Dutch, German, UK, Alt BF etc. I wonder if the US/Canada exclusive sets should be included in that definition as well for a more global perspective? Having some European/Australian exclusives listed as honorary Nirvanas is a rather US centered view in my opinion.
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There was one wave of G4 Fashion Styles that were manufactured in India, does that count as Nirvana since they were seemingly only released in Australia?
They were the Rainbow Dash and Rarity in their gala dresses. I have pictures of the ponies but not of their hoof markings, but they definitely said India.
they say made in India on them?? interesting! Have you seen one in person? I'd love to hear how the paint, plastic etc compares to China versions.
I actually own a set, I made a post about them last year... And i took photos of their hoof markings afterall! (I just don't have the pictures saved on my new computer)
I compared their hair and plastic on the last page, under a spoiler in the top post, their quality is startling!
Here's the thread if your interested: http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,375740.msg1494678.html#msg1494678
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There was one wave of G4 Fashion Styles that were manufactured in India, does that count as Nirvana since they were seemingly only released in Australia?
They were the Rainbow Dash and Rarity in their gala dresses. I have pictures of the ponies but not of their hoof markings, but they definitely said India.
they say made in India on them?? interesting! Have you seen one in person? I'd love to hear how the paint, plastic etc compares to China versions.
I noticed a brag post with G2 hair variants too....
The term Nirvana was coined before, or in the early years of G3 (I was active then, but I'm blurry about exactly when since I was TP exclusive at that time and the term stated with the Arena). There was a lot of negativity about G2 then as well so keeping the nirvana term G1 generation specific fits the collector attitudes of that time. A lot has changed since then and I'm wondering if it's worth updating the definition to account for other generations?
I'd like to see a discussion on more clearly defining the demi-nirvanas like Dutch, German, UK, Alt BF etc. I wonder if the US/Canada exclusive sets should be included in that definition as well for a more global perspective? Having some European/Australian exclusives listed as honorary Nirvanas is a rather US centered view in my opinion.
Please have a read of this thread kasin :)
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,283451.0.html
Love pkw xxx
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I'd like to see a discussion on more clearly defining the demi-nirvanas like Dutch, German, UK, Alt BF etc. I wonder if the US/Canada exclusive sets should be included in that definition as well for a more global perspective? Having some European/Australian exclusives listed as honorary Nirvanas is a rather US centered view in my opinion.
That's been my position for years - that we need to globalise our attitude and recognise all country exclusives when trying to talk about MLP. We're stuck in a 20 year old rut based on an outdated template set up in the late 90s. And it's not that I'm being UK-centric about this - the biggest victims are actually the US/Canadian collectors. We've seen 20 years of US/Canada exclusive ponies being sold at the same rates as globally available ponies because of this loophole. It's impossible to know if things would have been different with a more global approach from the start, but I've never thought it fair that Sweet Pop can sell for $5 but Movie Star Shady can still make $10+ on a good day. There are a lot of nuanced variations (like the many Cherries Jubilees, Lickety Splits, Poseys) that people just don't really talk about that much. They're not Nirvanas and not seen as mainstream so they get lost. Plus we distort what was actually happening in mainstream G1 across several countries by trying to force multiple markets into DV's rather limited "year 1-10" timeline.
And I will stop there before the mods kick me for going on an off-topic ramble. I think the Nirvana term is fine for what Nirvana encompasses. I think the issue is with mainstream (I wouldn't call them demi-Nirvana, but mainstream ponies from different national markets) and it's the Corral that really needs to be the place that is tackled, not the Nirvana forum.
@PKW - I don't remember using any term except variant. I know Sel had the wacky ponies like Princess Crash from new and I remember we knew about them early on, but I don't know how we defined them. I know specific individual names came about from her ponies and mine (Bobbie came from me, Hex etc from her) but those aren't general categorisations.
The Scrapbook gave up hosting variant pony information when Nirvana really took off and there were experts in those areas, but when I first put them on my site, nobody else was doing it (except where they were appearing as "UK exclusives". I know it began with Italy Surprise and Peachy which got me questioning why they were different, and I know I saw three South American babies from Helen's ponies when she came over in 97 although most South American Nirvana information wasn't around for a long time. One of them was Peru Baby Cotton Candy. I have her written down by description in my notebook, affectionately called 'blob-baby'.
I put them on the Scrapbook as variants, but we were only talking about a limited number of known ones back then. Italy, France, Spain, NC, India, Brazil to a limited degree and I had a Japanese insert that I had online as well although I lost the files for that in a site reboot. All the others have emerged more or less since the Nirvana term became known, although I think Greek and especially Argentinian ponies began to show up on Ebay en masse before that. I don't remember ever having them on my site though. I think what Nirvana became was a much bigger thing than what I was trying to do, which was really just put these ponies that we couldn't yet explain in a separate place away from the ones we could.
I think with other generations people already have that knowledge and expectation of variation. So probably it's much easier to catalogue variations. Also, though, I think there are just fewer. Fewer exclusives and fewer franchises. G1 is sort of the monopoly on variety here.
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Taffeta it must be the funny names like Princess Crash, Hex and of course Bobbi that I'm thinking of then ^.^ I believe I donated some pictures of my nirvana ponies to the Scrapbook when you had a variants section. I understand why you didn't want to keep that section as there is SO much and it would detract from the true purpose of your site ^.^
Kasin if you look closely at the nirvana gallery it well expresses the fact the not all the ponies pictured are "nirvana", but that some are regional exclusive. This has been this way for sometime :) I could well have deleted those albums containing the German, Dutch and other regional exclusive ponies as they are "true nirvanas" but I chose not to do so, but rather make the information more accurate, by adding in extra details into the album titles :) This certainly isn't a new thing that I've been doing, the nirvana gallery is constantly evolving as information crops up and old theories are disproven or confirmed.
http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=20319
There are reasons why G2, G3 and G4 ponies, but it is mostly because the ponies are regional exclusives, not that the nirvana forum is close minded. I do believe there are prototypes of those generations, I have seen them with my own eyes at UK PonyCon, in Hosbro's hands. G4 ponies are a whole different ballgame as there are plenty of 3rd shift ponies floating around, which makes it difficult to verify if it is a true prototype or variants.
Love pkw xxx
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Taffeta it must be the funny names like Princess Crash, Hex and of course Bobbi that I'm thinking of then ^.^ I believe I donated some pictures of my nirvana ponies to the Scrapbook when you had a variants section. I understand why you didn't want to keep that section as there is SO much and it would detract from the true purpose of your site ^.^
That and the fact my variant passion was always the Italian ponies, and I never really went out to collect any of the others. Mostly though because other people know more than I do, and there are places like this forum section here. The wiki has a lot of variants so it can be done all on one site - but I don't pretend I've kept up with all the variant ponies and their quirks.
Maybe that's also why the definition is so hairy, because it began as a very small category and exploded into insane proportions.
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This was essentially the conversation I was trying to have before getting sent to the intro thread.
Apparently I've struck nerves which was not my intent, so i will try to not say too much. (which is hard for me to do, I appologize)
There are numerous sources detailing and defining HK/China Euro exclusives. It is very clear that something like mountain boys or night light were never avalable in North America. Nothing like this exists for North American exclusives. Even something like Wiki it's not clear if a pony was exclusive and I know of no difinitave list. So... should there be such a list? Not trying to be a troll, just tossing ideas out there.
For later generations with non Chinese production, I only collect G1, I have nothing invested in this so I'll leave it there. I feel like the community has evolved and that it would be a positive effort to include as many demographics as possable, that was all I was trying to say, sorry if that was offensive, it was intended to be quite the opposite.
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There are numerous sources detailing and defining HK/China Euro exclusives. It is very clear that something like mountain boys or night light were never avalable in North America. Nothing like this exists for North American exclusives. Even something like Wiki it's not clear if a pony was exclusive and I know of no difinitave list. So... should there be such a list? Not trying to be a troll, just tossing ideas out there.
Ironically I think my site may be the only site which actually does tackle those things, because I list on every pony/set whether it was sold globally, in the UK, Europe, US/Canada and if I know, for other places in the world as well. I don't know definitively with the Australian issue or some other places like South Africa and Europe is a constantly changing picture because they're not identical markets. So the information is on my page. But my page is a site born from the concept of UK pony history and then branched outwards, so I don't think it's the first place US collectors think to go to look to find out their exclusives ;)
I think it's also not as simple as some folk realise to differentiate. Some of the best known 'US' ponies, like Mimic, were sold not in the UK or much of Europe but were definitely in Italy. Munchy and Yum Yum weren't in the UK either, but were definitely in the Netherlands. I've been told categorically by a Dutch collector that pearly baby sea ponies weren't sold there, but I have two US ones mint on Dutch cards which neither she nor I can explain at present. And so on it goes. Pony packaging and stuff like that is my Nirvana, so I'm all interested in this stuff, but I can imagine anyone else running an ID site looking at the mess and going...nah. It's rather like Pandora's Box.
I don't think it was a case you struck a nerve, I just think that PKW was answering a different issue, which was about the definition of Nirvana and how it came to be.
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You know I never would think to check your site for that purpose Taffeta. Its a good idea however and i might for future refferance.
I get how it came to be this way. I get how complicated it becomes even with Euro exclusives, (Australia is so unique and complicated it deserves it's own topic) I suppose I'm argueing a technicality. Is it inconsistent to list Euro HK/China in the gallery (regardless of labeling) but not North American exclusives?
Im not as invested in this argument as I might sound, I'm just one of those people that sorts my M&Ms by color before eating them and the HK/China exclusives and newer generation inclusion looks out of place to me.
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There was one wave of G4 Fashion Styles that were manufactured in India, does that count as Nirvana since they were seemingly only released in Australia?
They were the Rainbow Dash and Rarity in their gala dresses. I have pictures of the ponies but not of their hoof markings, but they definitely said India.
I have a G4 playskool plush (purple pegasus baby with star symbol..forget her name) who's also made in India :)
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this would be just my own personal definition and position but along the lines of prototypes would be that G3 breast cancer awareness pony MIB = sucha bummer that these were not made for that cause
otherwise I think strawberry reef put those G3 that were fair exclusives down as just that... so just like euro/UK releases and now I guess with G4 we have examples like that prototype minty and that rarity/celestia hybrid...
so I guess I would say my collection of "nirvana" include the hard-to-find and so is a multi-generational herd by my using a broader definition