Pony symbols and cutie marks in the future

[Emillia]

...It's all very well saying girls can be empowered by fashion, and it's absolutely true. But then again, why are they choosing to empower Rarity with fashion? Is it because she's a girl, and that's 'something girls like'?

Really? I never thought about it like that at all. I always saw G4 Rarity as creative and artistic. Making fashions like Rarity does is a rather high-skill level thing, and personally I thought FiM really celebrated that. Yes, it's "girly", and they could have literally make her good at anything else, but at the same time - why not? I truly get your issue with that idea though, but I don't think everyone looks at it trough the same lens (I think that's an English proverb, but I could be mixing languages up, sorry in advance).

[Taffeta]

...It's all very well saying girls can be empowered by fashion, and it's absolutely true. But then again, why are they choosing to empower Rarity with fashion? Is it because she's a girl, and that's 'something girls like'?

Really? I never thought about it like that at all. I always saw G4 Rarity as creative and artistic. Making fashions like Rarity does is a rather high-skill level thing, and personally I thought FiM really celebrated that. Yes, it's "girly", and they could have literally make her good at anything else, but at the same time - why not? I truly get your issue with that idea though, but I don't think everyone looks at it trough the same lens (I think that's an English proverb, but I could be mixing languages up, sorry in advance).

Well, it's only one way of interpreting it. It's more a case of asking, why did Hasbro/FIM choose that particular area in which to expand on Rarity as an artist and a businesswoman. THere's nothing wrong with it in its own sense, until you remember the walls and walls of fashion dolls and realise how much of the market aimed at girls is tied up in that concept. It's not about what happens in the show so much as the wider choices. Even lines like Monster High and Jem - which are also not about fashion per se - put huge emphasis on fashion as a concept because they're fashion dolls, right? (But 'boy' dolls with clothing are action figures? Even though they have clothing too?) Do you see what I mean? It's not inside the show, it's the wider assumptions I have issues with.

But this isn't really a thread about gender themes or FIM per se. I just didn't like the assumption that my problem is with women empowering themselves with fashion. My problem is that it's such an obvious natural choice for a girl's toy to be linked with fashion/clothing/make up that it makes me wonder why fashion, and why not something else?

Spoiler

Putting this in spoiler as well because it's way OT, but going back to that theme of a fashion design as empowerment, Shana in the Jem series is the band's fashion designer as well as their drummer/guitarist. But the way in which her character is handled is so entirely different to Rarity, it feels much less patronising and much more real. Shana is an artist, a musician and a pragmatic businesswoman. Rarity is unnaturally obsessed with what everyone else is wearing/looks like, how her hair is, and gemstones. Which has nothing to do with Sparker's gem collecting, and everything to do with reinforcing stereotypes.

I think Shana is a lot more empowering as a character involved in fashion, even though she's from 35 years ago, than Rarity is.

[Leave a Whisper]

No one said anything about wanting them to go away. Its just the destiny thing is dumb and needs to go away. Especially since it now needs to magically appear instead of always being there.  And impo, rump design is both physically innacurate and just as awkward and awful as cutie mark. The symbol is on their hips anyway.

[kittyhasnosoul]

I just hope the designs are pretty and original! And hopefully the new show adds more lore to the cutie marks, whether theyre called cutie marks or not. I like lore.

[Carrehz]

I've never liked "cutie mark". Animaniacs used it first and I disliked it there as well >P Too cutesy-wootsy and just silly sounding. I mean, I don't expect complete seriousness from MLP, but... I just don't like the name.

I like the idea of "CM = destiny" in theory, I suppose, but in practice it breaks down pretty quickly... I mean what the heck does a spoon represent. What about that background pony in FiM who had Grumpy Cat for his symbol. And I HATE the whole "only ponies get CMs!!!" crap. Breezies should have symbols!!! I'm not asking for every single char to have 'em, but I wish the hippogriffs had had them, at least. I love my Silverstream and Skystar, but they look so bare without symbols...
(Plus if only ponies have them in G4, what about Zecora? :/)

I just wish we could scrap all of this story stuff relating to the symbols and go back to making them pretty. Bring back TAFs!

[Mrs. Prospector]

What would you want Cutie Marks to be called moving on? I feel like "rump design/symbol" is really unattractive, and just "symbol" isn't special enough. "Birthmark" might work if the ponies are born with them, or "magical emblem" or something.

[Taffeta]

I don't think we need to go back to rump design or rump mark either, I only brought it up to demonstrate that Hasbro didn't just start naming them in G3, it's just that the G1/G2 term was not popular with the online community and got superseded by symbol pretty quick.

Symbol can't be copyrighted. Hasbro would want something they could copyright.

It would depend on whether they had any meaning or whether they were just decorative, though. If they were just decorative they might not need a name.

[SunPony]

Hip mark or hip decor or hip print might be good options, except what do you call it on TAF ponies, hmm...

or for copyright status, maybe Pony Print (yay for alliteration)?  Print makes sense for them as toys but not really for them to call it within their own universe.

What would we call it if people had something like that?  Maybe hip mark, like we have birth marks?

[Taffeta]

Pony Print is better than Cutie Mark by a very very big margin.

[tailrustedtealeaf]

Pony Print is so cute! Their newspaper could be the Pony Print Print.
They're essentially quarter marks, yeah? I guess that would need a bit more incorporation of pony anatomy in general terms (and flank is incorrect?) and can't be copyrighted.

[reanna-mator]

I'm less concerned with what they're called more than I am what they'll look like. I'd really like to continue to see more elaborate designs, designs with glitter, "twice as fancy" style ponies, and I wouldn't mind seeing the return of 3D/raised cutie marks but with the current size, that might be a little harder? Perhaps for "fashion style" larger ponies.

I also think Pony Print is SUPER cute, but I don't see them steering away from Cutie Mark since it's been so widely used for a while now.

[Wardah]

Ironically calling it a "symbol" post G4 makes more sense than it did pre G4 when most of the time they were random and had very little to do with anything. I guess that's why I kinda prefer "Cutie Mark" but for pre G3 I prefer to just say what it is like for example Bowtie I would describe as "blue pony with pink bows on her".

[Leave a Whisper]

Hip mark or hip decor or hip print might be good options, except what do you call it on TAF ponies, hmm...

or for copyright status, maybe Pony Print (yay for alliteration)?  Print makes sense for them as toys but not really for them to call it within their own universe.

What would we call it if people had something like that?  Maybe hip mark, like we have birth marks?

I'm "hip" with that. 

[Nemesis]

...It's all very well saying girls can be empowered by fashion, and it's absolutely true. But then again, why are they choosing to empower Rarity with fashion? Is it because she's a girl, and that's 'something girls like'?

Really? I never thought about it like that at all. I always saw G4 Rarity as creative and artistic. Making fashions like Rarity does is a rather high-skill level thing, and personally I thought FiM really celebrated that. Yes, it's "girly", and they could have literally make her good at anything else, but at the same time - why not? I truly get your issue with that idea though, but I don't think everyone looks at it trough the same lens (I think that's an English proverb, but I could be mixing languages up, sorry in advance).

Honestly, I’m pretty sure they picked “fashion designer” as Rarity’s career because... fashion IS popular among MLP’s core demographic. A LOT of girls and women genuinely like these “girly” things, so it makes sense to include characters and toys that will appeal to them. I felt like G4 did a pretty good job of having diverse characters who were into different things. It wasn’t over-saturated with pink, cupcakes, glitter, etc., but those things were represented because... they’re popular with young girls. That’s not just a stereotype... it’s also a reality. Not all girls are into the same things of course, but many love pink, glitter, fashion, and makeup. There have been lots of toylines through the years that tried to buck the stereotypes and avoid anything “girly” in their girl-aimed products. Unless you count Breyer horses (though I’d say most of those are pretty unisex), I can’t think of any that have been successful or long-lived.

I do get what you’re saying about how adults stereotype kids based on their genders. But if it’s a matter of shopping for a child you don’t know well, it’s ALWAYS a toss up. Most adults will opt for something that’s “in” and popular with the child’s demographic. I don’t really think that’s wrong.

In any case, I’m sorry if something I said offended you, or if I missed another point you were making (it was late when I posted). I just get a bit defensive of my pink and glitter. There are groups and individuals that are on this anti-girly kick, and berating parents about what they should or shouldn’t allow their daughters to play with. Not to mention all the negativity that brands like Disney Princess get from self-proclaimed “progressive” women.

“Girls who play with Barbie will grow up to believe they’re lesser than men—give them a Mrs. Potato Head instead!” (Real suggestion from researchers.) Umm... right. I’m definitely going to be thrilled with a potato when I asked for a glamorous fashion doll for my birthday. :/ Nothing wrong with the Potato Heads, mind you (I loved mine as a kid), but I played with them in a totally different way. They were not Barbie substitutes.

[The_Loner]

They better be on both sides!