Paypal goods and Services versus Friends

[jrr74]

I was wondering what advantage there is to paying the fee when using goods and services through paypal.  I have bought from several members here.  Once in a while I am asked to pay via the friends option to avoid fees.  Each time I have responded that I rather use goods and service for peace of mind I guess.  They have a good track record so it is not a trust issue with them.  I guess my concern is if the item is lost, does the post office pay?  Does tracking include insurance or is that a separate fee?  And if the post office is responsible for lost items, what is paypal's role?

thanks!

what about international shipping when two postal services are involved, who is responsible for the lost item?

[LadyMoondancer]

My understanding is you aren't covered by PayPal's buyer protection plan if you paid via the friends / gift option.  Meaning if your package never arrives then too bad so sad, PayPal won't do anything for you.

I believe that proof of delivery is required for a seller to win a Paypal case.  Meaning if an item was shipped by First Class to a country that doesn't track the package all the way to the door, the seller just has to pray that the buyer is honest and won't pretend the item never arrived.

I've never tried to file a claim with an actual post office, so I don't know about that part.

[jrr74]

Thanks LadyMoondancer.  I did some additional research after posting my question and having a PM conversation with another member .

I went to the following website for paypal and read through applicable parts a couple of times https://cms.paypal.com/at/cgi-bin/?&cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/BuyerProtection_full&locale.x=en_US

Two things that I found interesting, and maybe I am misinterpreting them, are

The PayPal Buyer Protection protects the buyer if an item purchased has not been shipped or if a shipped item is significantly not as described by the seller; see Clause 4 for details.

1) my interpretation-a lost item that has proof of shipment is no longer palpal's issue

Under the header Eligibility

3.3 The following items are not covered by PayPal Buyer Protection:

Non-tangible goods, services, cash transactions (US only), airline tickets, downloads, software licenses, gift vouchers and other non-physical goods as well as custom-made items.

2) my interpretation-custom ponies are not covered!?   

huh?

another thing I just saw on paypal for people who do the layaway thing/make payments for those slightly more expensive items

You must have made the complete purchase price payment from one registered PayPal account by means of a single payment (no installments, no down payments, no deposits, no deferred payments).

[ponylady]

I am adding a quote that was made by an Admin here and was stickied on the old arena a few years ago.  I just want to add this to this thread to make others aware of what is to be expected here and what Paypal's views are on the matter. We are also in the process of adding a "NEW" sticky here and in our sales forums regarding Paypals rules and what the Arenas stance is on "Gift" payments. It should be added in just a few days or so. 

Before the Arena moved to it's new home we had an official thread posted warning members against paying with the gift option.

This is just a friendly reminder that any time you pay a seller and select the "Send as Gift" option, you have just opted OUT of ANY Buyer Protection services that Paypal offers!

Send as Gift= you may not file a claim! Ever!

(not to mention it's rather dishonest and cheats Paypal of their cut- I know, they won't go bankrupt because they lost your $0.63 fee )

You *may* be able to get around this with your credit card fraud department, but I do not know if this has been tried yet, so I wouldn't count on it.

When selling between friends of course it's your prerogative, just remember that once you send it as a gift, it's gone for good.

It is inappropriate for sellers to require buyers to ignore Paypal's Terms & Conditions and send payments as "Gift"s! Don't put your buyers in that awkward position, they would be fully justified to refuse to complete the transaction. Sellers who are members at the Arena, who take payments as "gifts" and then have an issue with a sale here will be expected to work with the buyer exactly as they would if the buyer had Paypal's protection in place.

I know this has all been discussed here before, but it has always been amongst other issues. Seems like it's time this get adopted into the common trading etiquette since it looks like the change to Paypal is permanent.

I hope we'll never see a disappointed buyer here who has no recourse because they tried to be nice and save the seller a couple dollars in fees.

Anyways to sum it up in a nutshell you are not covered if you pay as a gift. That means you can not file any sort of claim against them if you do not receive the goods. It is also against Paypals TOS to do so if it is not actually a gift. In regards to shipping unless you pay the seller for Priority shipping or something higher which has insurance, and they actually send it that way,  you will not be able to file any sort of claim with the PO. Paypal has no role in that process what so ever either in the event that happens, you gave up your protection when you hit the gift option.

[jrr74]

Thank-you ponylady.  I thought I remember seeing a sticky note that addressed the topic with regards to paypal. 

[LadyMoondancer]

1) my interpretation-a lost item that has proof of shipment is no longer palpal's issue

This used to be the case with Paypal--that they would accept proof of shipment.  AFAIK they have demanded "proof of delivery" for quite a while now, regardless of what they say in their terms.  Although I'll be happy if that isn't the case because, seriously, how is a seller supposed to guarantee that an item doesn't get lost in the mail, short of driving it across the country.

3.3 The following items are not covered by PayPal Buyer Protection:

Non-tangible goods, services, cash transactions (US only), airline tickets, downloads, software licenses, gift vouchers and other non-physical goods as well as custom-made items.

This entire section is describing items that are non-tangible, so what Paypal is saying is: "custom-made non-tangible goods are not covered."  Not that custom-made goods in general are not covered.

[jrr74]

Thanks for clearing that up LadyMoondancer