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Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: mlp4me on April 22, 2021, 12:04:26 PM

Title: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: mlp4me on April 22, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
Happy Thursday!
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Do you have her? Your thoughts? Share some more pics!

I have her, my first Euro...


For the entire month of April I'll be featuring orange bodied ponies and also others that are nirvana. I'll continue to dedicate the first few days to birthday ponies in celebration of those born within that month. The last day of the month will be dedicated to a specific play set.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Ponybookworm on April 22, 2021, 12:08:08 PM
Have. Love her monochrome look & she pulls it off so well.
She was never part of my childhood collection, though I often wished I had her...
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: SpacePinto on April 22, 2021, 12:27:00 PM
She's so cute, I love her color and pose and also her character in the British comics
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on April 22, 2021, 12:47:25 PM
Want her! Her color scheme is really nice, and her symbols are cute. Solid desgin. Absolutely the worst name any pony has ever had though, I really don't feel comfortable saying or typing it.  :yikes:
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 22, 2021, 12:47:41 PM
I would love to have her (and Hopscotch) from this set. Its not likely to ever happen. She's very unique.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: LadyAmalthea on April 22, 2021, 01:00:55 PM
I wish she had been available here in the states when I was a kid. Doubt I'll ever find her for a reasonable price, but I'd love to add her to my herd.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Heelys on April 22, 2021, 02:03:38 PM
Want her! Her color scheme is really nice, and her symbols are cute. Solid desgin. Absolutely the worst name any pony has ever had though, I really don't feel comfortable saying or typing it.  :yikes:
I'm with you. She's beautiful, but uh. Maybe I'd call her Tangerine Tambourine or something. Even though that's a bit long, and more of a G4 name.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: BlackCurtains on April 22, 2021, 02:44:52 PM
Have her and love her!

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Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on April 22, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
I call her Tambourine myself. :)
She's such an interesting color scheme, one day...
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: SkyCakes on April 22, 2021, 03:52:13 PM
I do have this girl. I guess tambourine is a nice name reminds me of the song. I feel that she is pretty and in a different color not pink or purple.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2021, 04:33:53 PM
My first Euro too!  15-20 years ago, discovering there were MORE ponies out in the world I never knew existed, and seeing Gypsy, I knew I had to have her.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Heart Of Midnight on April 22, 2021, 04:50:59 PM
I want this pony! She is really beautiful. She has always been in my dreams since I was a little girl when I first saw her in comics.  :lovey:
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: kingluke on April 23, 2021, 03:34:55 AM
I call her tambourine too. I want her but never sought her out. I think she's a little pricey.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: drusilla on April 23, 2021, 04:32:05 AM
I always liked her color combination with body and hair
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: serena-hime on April 23, 2021, 08:15:36 AM
Love and want her, but I do hate her name and I'm glad I'm not the only person calling her Tambourine lol.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 23, 2021, 08:27:37 AM
Gypsy was a childhood pony for me, she was a second hand find at my Dad's school's fete.

Gypsy is a word in the English language which means 'free-spirited.' It's also a girl's name with the same meaning. This is also in keeping with Gypsy's character in the comics.

Words have power in context. Sometimes I think people forget that the context is as important as the word. There are words which, as an autistic person, I find unforgivable. But there are also contexts in which those words are entirely innocent. Knowing how to distinguish that is what makes language powerful.

Over here in the UK the term is used to self-identify by a lot of the people in question. I went to primary school with some of them. My Dad taught others. It's absolutely true that the word can be used in a derogatory sense - but that's the thing. Using it as a derogatory label and using it in the context of a name to express a meaning of free spirit are two different uses of the same word.

The nuance may be a British thing, but it's a British pony, so probably relevant in terms of Hasbro's decisions.

Kiwi Tart is an offensive pony name too. It could be seen as both racist and sexist if taken in a particular context. But in the actual pony's context, it's also a dessert.  It really depends on the context you choose to see.

That's why words have power. 

Some words are always offensive in every context, and should not be used. But for other words it really depends on understanding that context.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: applejackbunny on April 23, 2021, 09:12:09 AM
I agree with Taffeta - there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with the name or word "Gypsy", at least not here in the UK.

I love her to bits! She's got such a gorgeous colour scheme and pose!  :lovey: I was very lucky to have bought her before her price shot up.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: serena-hime on April 23, 2021, 10:36:53 AM
Gypsy was a childhood pony for me, she was a second hand find at my Dad's school's fete.

Gypsy is a word in the English language which means 'free-spirited.' It's also a girl's name with the same meaning. This is also in keeping with Gypsy's character in the comics.


Over here in the UK the term is used to self-identify by a lot of the people in question. I went to primary school with some of them. My Dad taught others. It's absolutely true that the word can be used in a derogatory sense - but that's the thing. Using it as a derogatory label and using it in the context of a name to express a meaning of free spirit are two different uses of the same word.

The nuance may be a British thing, but it's a British pony, so probably relevant in terms of Hasbro's decisions.

 
Not to turn this thread into an argument, but this word is (at least contemporarily) thought to be a slur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_people#Gypsy_and_gipsy), regardless of whether or not people sometimes use it to describe a 'free spirit' or if it is sometimes used by actual Romani people, regardless of location. It's popular to use it for other reasons (as you mentioned- this is not exclusive to the UK and is sill quite common in the US), but it still originated as a descriptor for Romani people (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gypsy#English), which eventually developed into a slur and is inextricable from that origin (the use of it to describe a 'free spirit' is also a result of it's use to describe Romani people), at least not when Romani people are still oppressed.

Acknowledging it's origins (https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/gypsy-slur-netlflix) is important for understanding the way it's used today, in any context.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 23, 2021, 10:49:18 AM
Gypsy was a childhood pony for me, she was a second hand find at my Dad's school's fete.

Gypsy is a word in the English language which means 'free-spirited.' It's also a girl's name with the same meaning. This is also in keeping with Gypsy's character in the comics.


Over here in the UK the term is used to self-identify by a lot of the people in question. I went to primary school with some of them. My Dad taught others. It's absolutely true that the word can be used in a derogatory sense - but that's the thing. Using it as a derogatory label and using it in the context of a name to express a meaning of free spirit are two different uses of the same word.

The nuance may be a British thing, but it's a British pony, so probably relevant in terms of Hasbro's decisions.

 
Not to turn this thread into an argument, but this word is (at least contemporarily) thought to be a slur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_people#Gypsy_and_gipsy), regardless of whether or not people sometimes use it to describe a 'free spirit' or if it is sometimes used by actual Romani people, regardless of location. It's popular to use it for other reasons (as you mentioned- this is not exclusive to the UK and is sill quite common in the US), but it still originated as a descriptor for Romani people (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gypsy#English), which eventually developed into a slur and is inextricable from that origin (the use of it to describe a 'free spirit' is also a result of it's use to describe Romani people), at least not when Romani people are still oppressed.

Acknowledging it's origins is important for understanding the way it's used today, in any context.

I don't think anything was said about its origins, but words all have origins and there are many words in language which originate from different peoples. Phrases, such as 'beware of greeks bearing gifts' are technically slurs against the greek people, but they still exist in our language.

It's not that I'm denying the existence of a slurred usage, more that by imposing the slur as the ONLY interpretation on the word, you're feeding that meaning, rather than the other. Which, as you acknowledge, exists.

As I mentioned before, there's a word starting with r which a lot of people use far too often. I find this word very hurtful and offensive, but even though that's true, I also can tell when it's not being used in a perjorative way and has nothing to do with its other, derogatory meaning.

Being able to tell the difference is important.

As I said, Kiwi Tart is twice as offensive, in theory. But we know the context. We know it with Gypsy, too. You're choosing to make it a slur, rather than it actually being one. Just as Kiwi Tart was never intended to be insulting, either.

Of course, there's a disclaimer to this. If you or the other people in the thread complaining about the term are from the Romani people, and are personally offended, that's an entirely different matter. If that's the case then of course the discussion is different.

Otherwise, what I said before stands. You only increase hate and suspicion by being suspicious of every single possible interpretation of a word. As I said in my previous post, some words are always offensive and some are contextually offensive. This is the latter.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: serena-hime on April 23, 2021, 10:52:37 AM

It's not that I'm denying the existence of a slurred usage, more that by imposing the slur as the ONLY interpretation on the word, you're feeding that meaning, rather than the other. Which, as you acknowledge, exists.

 
Otherwise, what I said before stands. You only increase hate and suspicion by being suspicious of every single possible interpretation of a word. As I said in my previous post, some words are always offensive and some are contextually offensive. This is the latter.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this- the word is a slur, it's not ours to reclaim, and I find it positive to remove this pony from her name.

Also...um, her symbol is a tambourine (an item associated with a stereotypical image of Romani people- see Esmeralda), I would say it's quite obvious that they knew the origin of the name (even if they didn't know it's history)
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 23, 2021, 12:41:55 PM
We can of course agree to disagree, although I am in no way condoning its use as a slur, nor denying the existence of that usage.

I do think it's important to respect different cultural perspectives. Although that also includes understanding and acknowledging the more nuanced British usage of the term.

My opinion is that probably Gypsy was a clumsy 1980s attempt at inclusion. The reason why I don't see her as offensive is because she was a very popular character and beloved. Whether you can find stereotypes in her character - maybe, but broad strokes, rather than specifically cringey moments. She likes music and dance. She doesn't have a tent and a crystal ball. As for the tambourine, well, my sister plays the tambourine too. She's a percussionist. As a kid she loved the fact Gypsy had tambourines, because when she was a kid, people didn't take percussion seriously and she dealt with a lot of issues. So for her Gypsy was validation that it was ok to play percussion.

As an autistic person I've learned and come to value that awkward attempts to reach out and include are better than being ignored completely. It at least begins a discussion, which can lead to improved awareness and education. I also say this from the standpoint of someone who has seen the r word used regularly and liberally in discussions on equality and diversity, so I know that this whole thing can be very complicated.

You are as always entitled to your opinion, and you don't have to agree with mine in the slightest. All I really wanted was to say that not all opinions have to be binary.

The one thing I do find weird, though, is that you guys still want to own her although she makes you uncomfortable. If it were me, I wouldn't want her in my collection at all.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Carrehz on April 23, 2021, 12:49:36 PM
...*sidesteps argument*

Have her, love her! Gorgeous pony and I like her name, too, it's pretty.

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(One of my particular favourite pony pics too! Well, except for those stray hairs. :p)
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 23, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
...*sidesteps argument*

Have her, love her! Gorgeous pony and I like her name, too, it's pretty.

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(One of my particular favourite pony pics too! Well, except for those stray hairs. :p)

I'm not sure why, but I feel like I should give you a cookie for this post. Just because. Well. This post.

Definitely time to talk about the pony.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 23, 2021, 08:02:23 PM
...*sidesteps argument*

Have her, love her! Gorgeous pony and I like her name, too, it's pretty.

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(One of my particular favourite pony pics too! Well, except for those stray hairs. :p)

Great picture. 
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: serena-hime on April 23, 2021, 09:23:49 PM
We can of course agree to disagree, although I am in no way condoning its use as a slur, nor denying the existence of that usage.

Well that's good, and I'd certainly never say you would!

Quote
I do think it's important to respect different cultural perspectives. Although that also includes understanding and acknowledging the more nuanced British usage of the term.

My issue with this statement is that it's also a slur in the UK still; it may have been watered down to the point where most people don't understand the history and oppression behind it, especially in places like the UK and North America, but that connotation is still there and many Romani people have been actively trying to fight against the use of it- which is why, regardless of whether or not it's used in a negative context, I think it's better not to use it at all, and I think there is little consequence in not using it in most contexts (the exception being in an educational setting, or when a term is reclaimed by the oppressed group in an effort to recontextualize)

Quote
My opinion is that probably Gypsy was a clumsy 1980s attempt at inclusion.

My assumption is mostly that it just wasn't understood to be a bad word to most people back then (and still isn't), rather it was assumed to be an innocuous, cute name for a pony. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but in a modern setting I think it would be best to acknowledge that it was a mistake to give her that name (along with other ponies like Wigwam, though I think in his case it's more a matter of the entire design instead of just the name, though I do love orange ponies lol).

Quote
The reason why I don't see her as offensive is because she was a very popular character and beloved. Whether you can find stereotypes in her character - maybe, but broad strokes, rather than specifically cringey moments. She likes music and dance. She doesn't have a tent and a crystal ball.

I personally don't think something needs to be intentionally offensive, or even portrayed as negative to be criticized.

Quote
As for the tambourine, well, my sister plays the tambourine too. She's a percussionist. As a kid she loved the fact Gypsy had tambourines, because when she was a kid, people didn't take percussion seriously and she dealt with a lot of issues. So for her Gypsy was validation that it was ok to play percussion.
That's great! I love everything about her design, and I love that ponies are so diverse that everyone can find one to relate to, but I think her name was a mistake on Hasbro's part and I think she would have been much better with a different name (like Tambourine- it even rhymes with Tangerine, so it's perfect for her lol- I actually wonder if this was intentional)

Quote
As an autistic person I've learned and come to value that awkward attempts to reach out and include are better than being ignored completely. It at least begins a discussion, which can lead to improved awareness and education.

I agree with this wholeheartedly; it's better to try to show kindness and work to learn despite the potentiality of saying the wrong thing instead of doing nothing at all- especially because those moments do open up the opportunity for education and a better understanding- like we're doing right now!

Quote
I also say this from the standpoint of someone who has seen the r word used regularly and liberally in discussions on equality and diversity, so I know that this whole thing can be very complicated.

Totally understand this, I'm a member of an often poorly understood group and frequently have to make a balance between understanding people and simultaneously wading through incorrect assumptions and term usage that is often offensive and based in oppression ( historical and contemporary), both unintentionally and otherwise.

Quote
You are as always entitled to your opinion, and you don't have to agree with mine in the slightest. All I really wanted was to say that not all opinions have to be binary.

Agreed!

Quote
The one thing I do find weird, though, is that you guys still want to own her although she makes you uncomfortable. If it were me, I wouldn't want her in my collection at all.

Personally, I love her design; one of my favorite poses, favorite color schemes and I love her little freckles. Despite that, her name does prevent me from getting her- I've turned down several so far because of her name, though I will likely still get her in the future.

A big part of loving anything is understanding and acknowledging the less positive aspects of it, it's important to criticize the things you love.


And that's all I have to say about this.  :) Back to the ponies!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on April 23, 2021, 09:53:04 PM
The one thing I do find weird, though, is that you guys still want to own her although she makes you uncomfortable. If it were me, I wouldn't want her in my collection at all.

I mean, I like the pony herself! As I said, I think her color scheme and symbol are really nice! It's really only her name I dislike. I like how others call her Tambourine so I like using that name for her myself! Whenever I do get her eventually (if I can find a good enough deal), I'll just call her that instead! I don't have to like a pony's name to like how the pony looks!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 24, 2021, 01:44:59 AM
Noo, but there's a difference between personally disliking a name and considering it perjorative.

Simply changing the name doesn't change the concept of the toy, nor her appearance. Owning the pony endorses both those aspects, even if you don't accept her name.

I do understand Serena-hime's points about being able to criticise the things you love; on the other hand, that can also be used as a convenient excuse to own something which contains undertones. At the end of the day, Hasbro made profit on Gypsy. When you buy Gypsy, unless you pick her up from a second hand store, you are somehow reimbursing the money paid at the store till for the pony in its original package. The money goes back down the line until it goes back into Hasbro. So I think it probably does matter in regards to owning her. 

For reference, the organisation which represents these people in the UK can be found here:
https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/

In any case, going back to the pony, I always think the free spirited mantra fits her best. She is unique among the early unicorns. She entirely breaks the rules Hasbro US set down for early unicorns, with her freckles and her missing streak. I always felt like that uniqueness gelled really well with the meaning of her name, as well as the spirited, musical and engaging personality she presented in the comics. She was a free spirit, genuinely. And I feel like this is what Hasbro were intending. They broke with the mould laid down by the US because for some reason we didn't get the US ponies.

So that's who Gypsy is to me. And that's just my opinion, but I don't think it needs educating or changing. It's just my perspective. And that's all.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Tropical_Sunset on April 24, 2021, 06:13:19 AM
I love her pretty, bright color. She's so unique! Want!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 24, 2021, 06:56:50 AM
Love her :)

Love pkw xxx
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on April 25, 2021, 07:08:40 AM
Noo, but there's a difference between personally disliking a name and considering it perjorative.

Simply changing the name doesn't change the concept of the toy, nor her appearance. Owning the pony endorses both those aspects, even if you don't accept her name.

I do understand Serena-hime's points about being able to criticise the things you love; on the other hand, that can also be used as a convenient excuse to own something which contains undertones. At the end of the day, Hasbro made profit on Gypsy. When you buy Gypsy, unless you pick her up from a second hand store, you are somehow reimbursing the money paid at the store till for the pony in its original package. The money goes back down the line until it goes back into Hasbro. So I think it probably does matter in regards to owning her.

"Somehow", "probably". It sounds like you don't even know why you're claiming what you're claiming. How is purchasing a pony from another collector who released thirty six years ago supporting Hasbro's naming decision? These ponies have been traded around between so many people at this point most of the time. Buying a pony secondhand, regardless of whether it's from a store or from a collector, in no way puts any money in Hasbro's pocket. They made that money decades ago, that's already settled in stone. It's not impossible to realize that a name of a pony is problematic and probably shouldn't be said by non-Romani people anymore in 2021, while still appreciating the color scheme and general design of the toy.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 25, 2021, 10:10:01 AM
"Somehow", "probably". It sounds like you don't even know why you're claiming what you're claiming.

Of course I know what I'm claiming.

The thing is that, in Britain, when we want to make an obvious point but don't want to make the other person feel too bad about it, we dilute our language with words to soften the blow and make it less direct.

A person who bought Gypsy in the eighties spent money that went to Hasbro in profit. If that person sells Gypsy to you, you are effectively reimbursing them the cost of that purchase. It doesn't matter if 36 years has passed. Stuff doesn't stop being derogatory after the passage of time. It also doesn't matter if the name isn't right there on the card glaring out at you. Choosing to spend money on the same pony second hand, knowing her name and identity, is also no different from choosing to buy her in the shop.

I feel like changing the name of the pony is a personal decision.  But it's hard to countenance the argument that calling her Tambourine somehow negates all the other factors in the equation, or gives the renamer any moral high ground.

Incidentally this is not just about Gypsy, but it also applies to Wigwam, and to Kiwi Tart, and to any other pony with a name that can be challenged at the ethical level. The problem is that different names have different impetus in different places and languages, which is why it becomes difficult.

THese ponies are also concepts and backstories, with representation in the pony comic at the very least. It really doesn't matter if you know about those things. They still exist. This of course also extends to their appearance - in the case of both Wigwam and Gypsy, their symbols vis a vis their names.

But on that note, I think I've said all I can say on this subject. I think all the points have been made, and it's for each individual collector to decide how they feel. In the meantime, it's time to move on.

Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Henpatch on April 28, 2021, 06:30:24 PM
Had a family of her - just beautiful!
Downsizing - so they have a new home!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Shaz on April 29, 2021, 01:57:51 AM
One of my girlfriend's childhood ponies. She reminds me of Elizabeth Arnold's Freya trilogy, a series of books I adored as a child (they were about Freya Boswell, a Romani witch/healer living in the New Forest).

Our pony is called Rodi, it's a traditional English Romani name used since at least the nineteenth century.

(An interesting article about Victorian Romani names, for anyone who is curious: https://www.britishbabynames.com/blog/2014/05/victorian-romany-names.html)

Back when I had a thread about Ponies in Europe, I think there was some discussion as to whether Gypsy was sold in Hungary, but I don't remember the details.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 29, 2021, 02:11:50 AM
I believe she was sold in Hungary. I'm not sure how that happened, but it seems to be the case.

Also Israel I think?

I was looking through some books from my sale box (advance warning, a price check post will be coming when I can get the pictures off my camera) and Gypsy is in a couple of the read and listen ones. The thing that struck me is that she's really just another magical pony being magical in a magical world. In the one I'm thinking of, she and Hopscotch are doing magic together to track down something the ponies are seeking, and this seems pretty standard.

Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: LadyAmalthea on April 29, 2021, 07:03:53 AM
Our pony is called Rodi, it's a traditional English Romani name used since at least the nineteenth century.

(An interesting article about Victorian Romani names, for anyone who is curious: https://www.britishbabynames.com/blog/2014/05/victorian-romany-names.html)


Interesting read, thank you!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: IceCrystal02 on April 29, 2021, 07:09:54 AM
I like her. While I'm not actively looking for her at the moment, I would love to own her one day.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on April 29, 2021, 08:06:31 AM
She's a beauty. She was once the pony I chose to take on holiday lol. I was camping so I suppose it makes sense... RE: the name I think we had a discussion about this recently but in the UK at least the term 'Gypsy' doesn't automatically have a negative connotation. The polite umbrella term is 'Traveller and Gypsy Roma' which includes Showmen, Irish Travelers, Tinkers and Roma people.  Unfortunately there are have much worse names to call Gypsies if an insult is intended so I doubt 'Gypsy' would bother anyone much.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 29, 2021, 08:50:50 AM
I have yet to see a single British person on the thread make any issue with Gypsy's name. I think it is just because we're coming from a different cultural context - but Gypsy is British, so it does matter how British collectors react to her.

Artie's assessment is pretty accurate. It's more a case that the group themselves experience discrimination, but the word itself isn't a slur word in our language. People from those groups can be and are marginalised, but the term 'gypsy' doesn't really convey that here on its own.

Shaz, that's pretty cool :D Nicely done :D
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on April 29, 2021, 10:25:38 AM
Differing cultural contexts makes a lot of sense with who takes issue with the name and who doesn't. Always an interesting discussion to be had. :) I can certainly think of a few names that British english speakers would take issue with that wouldn't be so scorned here.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 29, 2021, 11:54:58 AM
Differing cultural contexts makes a lot of sense with who takes issue with the name and who doesn't. Always an interesting discussion to be had. :) I can certainly think of a few names that British english speakers would take issue with that wouldn't be so scorned here.

My mother is still a bit horrified there's a pony called Crumpet ;)
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: glitterball on April 29, 2021, 10:42:01 PM
Ah, Gypsy.

I love this particular set of ponies (along with Hopscotch, Snowflake, Honeycomb) and it brings up wonderful childhood memories...

...every Thursday evening, Mum would take me along with her for the weekly "big shop". She would go to Waitrose then go with me to the neighbouring little shops in the precinct where I would descend upon one particular newsagent (that sold music, toys, mags, sweets, etc.) how I adored that shop!

I saw this series of ponies hanging in the toy section, and I was smitten! I cannot remember which pony I chose first out of this set, perhaps it was Gypsy, or Honeycomb... I know that an unplanned trip with my Granny resulted in her treating me to Hopscotch... this is where I also bought my MLP and Jem comics. Oh, and some pony wear too!

What a delightful pony - the unusual orange with darker hair - such rich, warm colourings and a contrasting purple eye... and a cute unicorn horn, too! I can remember brushing her hair back in the 80s, kneeling at my parents' white-tiled coffee table, Danger Mouse on TV in the background. Perhaps it was a summer season? I remember it was bright & sunny when I bought & played with these ponies.

I have seen some very sweet customised baby ponies that are just TOO ADORABLE as baby Gypsy; a potential future custom project, especially if BF ever release a baby pony line!

ETA

She was one of the first ponies I searched for on EB when I got back into ponies, I managed to buy a few (tiny army) back when prices were not so crazy, I cannot remember, maybe 7 pounds including p&p, haha just look at the prices today!!!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 30, 2021, 12:36:43 AM
That's a great memory :D Funny how sunny memories seem to go along with ponies!

I also really love that set. I had Snowflake as a child from new, but Gypsy was second hand. I've mentioned it before, but it was Dad's school fete, on the orange stall. And I had to wait for the fete to open before I was allowed to buy her, so I stood there patiently by the stall, watching her until I heard the headmaster declare the fete open. NOBODY else was getting that pony, seriously.

She cost me 30p. I remember it vividly because I was so excited to have one of the early unicorns. Other than Majesty she's the only early unicorn I had - most were not sold here, although my friend had the movie star Gusty.

Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on April 30, 2021, 12:50:44 AM
Differing cultural contexts makes a lot of sense with who takes issue with the name and who doesn't. Always an interesting discussion to be had. :) I can certainly think of a few names that British english speakers would take issue with that wouldn't be so scorned here.

My mother is still a bit horrified there's a pony called Crumpet ;)

Yes! There are way worse. My Dad thinks Pinkie Pie is hilarious. I have no idea why  :blush:

That is a really nice memory. I wish I could go to a car boot sale with 30p and buy a G1!

@Glitterball that's a lovely memory!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Shaz on April 30, 2021, 01:42:01 AM
Aw, Glitterball and Taffeta, you memories of Gypsy are so sweet <3

British people, I have only one thing to say about pony names, and that is Spunky :lol:
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 30, 2021, 07:12:16 AM
Aw, Glitterball and Taffeta, you memories of Gypsy are so sweet <3

British people, I have only one thing to say about pony names, and that is Spunky :lol:

Oh god no. Don't even :)
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Ponybookworm on April 30, 2021, 07:44:48 AM
Aw, Glitterball and Taffeta, you memories of Gypsy are so sweet <3

British people, I have only one thing to say about pony names, and that is Spunky :lol:
This, & the Perfume Puff Palace for reasons
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 30, 2021, 08:16:09 AM
Aw, Glitterball and Taffeta, you memories of Gypsy are so sweet <3

British people, I have only one thing to say about pony names, and that is Spunky :lol:
This, & the Perfume Puff Palace for reasons

Facepalm.
Also true.

And I'm gonna bring Kiwi Tart up again. I remember when she first came out and we all just went...O.O WHAT?!
Especially as I'm pretty sure she was first found in NZ. O.o.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: applejackbunny on April 30, 2021, 10:42:48 AM
I have yet to see a single British person on the thread make any issue with Gypsy's name. I think it is just because we're coming from a different cultural context - but Gypsy is British, so it does matter how British collectors react to her.

Artie's assessment is pretty accurate. It's more a case that the group themselves experience discrimination, but the word itself isn't a slur word in our language. People from those groups can be and are marginalised, but the term 'gypsy' doesn't really convey that here on its own.

Again, I agree with this. I'm British and don't know anyone here who would have an issue with the name "Gypsy". I don't think the travelling community here has much of a problem with it either, as Taffeta said earlier. There are some offensive words for them, but "Gypsy" isn't one of them.

Gypsy is a beautiful pony with a lovely name and she will always stay that way, at least for me, if not for everyone.

Post Merge: April 30, 2021, 10:47:53 AM

I have seen some very sweet customised baby ponies that are just TOO ADORABLE as baby Gypsy; a potential future custom project, especially if BF ever release a baby pony line!

Baby Gypsy would be AMAZING!!!  :lovey: :lovey: :lovey:

Post Merge: April 30, 2021, 10:49:19 AM

I stood there patiently by the stall, watching her until I heard the headmaster declare the fete open. NOBODY else was getting that pony, seriously.

She cost me 30p. I remember it vividly because I was so excited to have one of the early unicorns. Other than Majesty she's the only early unicorn I had - most were not sold here, although my friend had the movie star Gusty.

That's adorable!

Post Merge: April 30, 2021, 10:50:33 AM

Aw, Glitterball and Taffeta, you memories of Gypsy are so sweet <3

British people, I have only one thing to say about pony names, and that is Spunky :lol:

Eeeewwww!  :blink:
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 30, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Differing cultural contexts makes a lot of sense with who takes issue with the name and who doesn't. Always an interesting discussion to be had. :) I can certainly think of a few names that British english speakers would take issue with that wouldn't be so scorned here.

My mother is still a bit horrified there's a pony called Crumpet ;)

Aren't those kind of like English muffins? I had those once. Never could find them again.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on April 30, 2021, 12:08:41 PM
Differing cultural contexts makes a lot of sense with who takes issue with the name and who doesn't. Always an interesting discussion to be had. :) I can certainly think of a few names that British english speakers would take issue with that wouldn't be so scorned here.

My mother is still a bit horrified there's a pony called Crumpet ;)

Aren't those kind of like English muffins? I had those once. Never could find them again.

Yes...they are. They are that. But...erm. Crumpet has another questionable slang meaning. It's a bit more out of date now. Maybe google will still tell you though.

On the subject of this different context thing, too - I feel like what TRTL said is really important and we all have to respect each other's cultural perspectives, rather than jumping in with assumptions.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on April 30, 2021, 02:36:28 PM
Had noo clue about Crumpet. This is why localization matters, I guess. XD
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: glitterball on May 03, 2021, 12:25:41 PM
30p was such a bargain, Taffeta, I can imagine you guarding that stall so that no-one would grab Gypsy before you!!

I have seen some very sweet customised baby ponies that are just TOO ADORABLE as baby Gypsy; a potential future custom project, especially if BF ever release a baby pony line!

Baby Gypsy would be AMAZING!!!  :lovey: :lovey: :lovey:


The wee unicorn horn! Just picture those white FRECKLES!!!

In the UK, "crumpet" is slang, pertaining to a lady, one that treated as a sexualised object, for example, "he went out to the pub and hooked up with a nice bit of crumpet" means a guy went to the pub and got lucky with a (sexually) attractive woman... Sort of... Also "to chase crumpet" is when a guy intentionally goes out of his way to find a lady to have physical relations with, not necessarily to have a loving relationship. It's a word that is not used so much these days but the "Carry On" type of movies & their ilk from the 60s & 70s reference the phrase often.

Spunky also means one with a feisty, strong character but in popular UK slang it means something gross and can make a whole classroom of teenage kids hit the floor laughing if read out loud!!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on May 03, 2021, 12:31:59 PM
I think the carry ons are probably why we all still know that particular piece of slang, even if it's really seldom used.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: glitterball on May 03, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
I think the carry ons are probably why we all still know that particular piece of slang, even if it's really seldom used.
I can so imagine actor Sid James saying it, than laughing "ack, ack, ack" the way he famously used to!

The word Gypsy, I have read, could have originated from Egyptians *goes scans google*
aha, interesting source: from The Guardian -
link:
Spoiler
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/07/gypsies-arrived-europe-1500-genetic

"Gypsies were originally thought to have come from Egypt and some of the earliest references to them in English, dating back to the 16th century, call them "Egyptians".

Early European references describe wandering, nomadic communities who were known for their music and skill with horses.

They arrived in Spain in the 15th century or earlier – with records of groups of up to a hundred Gypsies travelling together, often led by someone who termed himself a "count" or "duke" – and held on despite attempts to expel them or imprison those who refused to give up their language and culture
."
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on May 03, 2021, 02:34:37 PM
Yeah, Sid James xD.
It sometimes surprises me that the Carry Ons have survived this long, tbh, considering everything...


I read that too.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on May 04, 2021, 04:42:25 AM
Yeah, Sid James xD.
It sometimes surprises me that the Carry Ons have survived this long, tbh, considering everything...


I read that too.

So my friend is British and her parents were originally Punjabi. She says that Gypsy Roma people are also thought to be from North India and that when she was living in Greece working as a scientist people sometimes (politely) asked her if she's a Gypsy.

As for Sid James IDK. I have some mixed feelings because while some of it was clearly not right, I used to love Carry on Cabby etc. Those films showed such a bright, optimistic time in Britain when people had normal faces too, laughing with real wrinkles. I didn't get the feeling that Barbara or Hattie were ever exploited but I've never really read into it much.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Taffeta on May 04, 2021, 05:49:28 AM
Not to take this massively off topic, but aside a couple of questionable representations of different cultures (vis a vis the time period) I feel like Carry Ons kind of make fun of everyone, so probably get by?

I've never felt offended as a woman watching them, tbh, even though there's so much risque humour in them.

Although Sid James himself had a slightly questionable irl record when it came to women.

Hattie, Barbara and Joan - all stars eternal.
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on May 04, 2021, 09:59:22 AM
Not to take this massively off topic, but aside a couple of questionable representations of different cultures (vis a vis the time period) I feel like Carry Ons kind of make fun of everyone, so probably get by?

I've never felt offended as a woman watching them, tbh, even though there's so much risque humour in them.

Although Sid James himself had a slightly questionable irl record when it came to women.

Hattie, Barbara and Joan - all stars eternal.

I agree, it's so off-topic now. Partly my fault. And here's to Hattie, Barbara and Joan!
Title: Re: POTD 4/22/2021 Gypsy
Post by: applejackbunny on May 04, 2021, 11:02:28 AM
Reading this has reminded me of Benny Hill... Now that was offensive! I'm ashamed it was exported to the States tbh.
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