Unofficial Renaming of G*psy?

[Prince Firefly]

I asked this originally on Tumblr, but it's worth to ask here as well as there are more G1 collectors here. Also so that this could reach a wider audience.

Has the community ever come up with an unofficial replacement name for G*psy? Considering her name is a slur for the Romani people, especially considering the prejudice against the Romani has been more and more revealed over the years, I figure it's only right to come up with a different name to refer to G*psy as. Also since she's so commonly sought after, and she stems from an offensive caricature in the comics.

Of course, we can't change the past (and it was certainly a different time when she was released) and it'd be easier to find her under the original name (when it comes to things like listings, etc), but out of respect it's likely for the best we give her an unofficial name to use instead.

If she doesn't already have one- and I've looked- I suggest Tambourine, for her cutie mark and backcard story.

If you're of the Romani people yourself, please give your opinions! They'll be the most heavily considered and your thoughts on this are the most appreciated.

Even if you're not Romani, offer your opinions too! Please try to not be offensive, though, and recognize the hurt done to this minority group.

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[Artemesia's Garden]

We already had a discussion about this recently, I'm not from the Gypsy Roma or Traveller communities but from the UK and my take is that it's a non-issue. Gypsy isn't a slur here it's a title. In schools, we formally use the description Gypsy Roma and Traveller to describe any settled or non-settled people who identify as being members of these groups. It's important to distinguish children from these groups since they may have certain requirements like opting out of sex ed in schools or attending gatherings at certain times of the year during school term time. So we respectfully use these terms when discussing policy and procedure. I'm sorry that the situation is different abroad however I don't think that we can or should change her name. At least, I'd be surprised if it catches on. I didn't realise that she was a negative character however, could we see some examples?

[kingluke]

I, and others, call her tambourine. I change the names of ponies as I see fit.

[RoseNoire]

I'm from Belgium so English isn't my first language, but I don't perceive this term as a slur or anything insulting. I would be interested to have the opinion of people from that community to have a clearer understanding of what it means to them.

[Luxrayx]

I'm not fond of the "It's not a slur to me" perspective, to be honest

I mean, think of something that is a slur to you. I'm talking unspeakably, we-can't-be-friends-if-you-say-it- bad. Would that be a slur to you if you'd never heard it before? It wouldn't, right? What if someone from a different country told you it's not a slur to them? Would you still be comfortable with Hasbro naming a pony that?

It's a complicated issue, of course, and I don't blame anyone for referring to a pony by her official name or anything like that. But I do think the idea of renaming her is a noble one, whether it catches on or not. Tambourine is a lovely name

[SpacePinto]

How about "The Romani Pony"?

[tailrustedtealeaf]

I've heard Tambourine as well.
But yeah, there was a long discussion about this in a past thread (her Pony of the Day one?). Seems to be a regional thing.

[Carrehz]

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,401233.0.html
^ this was the thread

[SunPony]

This has definitely come up multiple times in the recent past on here.  The concencus seemed to be that British people found the name not offensive while American people found it offensive.  I can't recall what folks from other parts of Europe and the rest of the world thought. I believe the word originated in Britain (among non-Romani populations), so maybe that's a contributing factor..?

Really the word itself is kind of odd since it is based on a historical misidentification, like saying "Indian" and meaning certain native American tribes that have actual names...From what I read previously the Romani didn't seem to have a great deal of concencus on whether they found the term offensive or not.  So it really feels like a gray area at least on the international stage.  But maybe there is more consensus among them then I am aware of. To me, I get the feeling that the word's trajectory is toward slur.  Like maybe it is ambiguous now but in thirty years it will end up more firmly in the slur category.  I mean why would you continue to refer to a population by the name you gave them instead of the name they actually call themselves?

For what it's worth I always called my childhood ponies after their symbols rather than their given names, so if I had had her I certainly would have called her tambourine or whatever I interpreted those symbols to be.

[Leave a Whisper]

I never found her name offensive.  Gypsy is a word for a free spirited, mysterious woman too. And its a popular horse name besides.

How about we let them decide, and follow their lead on it?

I'm also really tired of people using toys/media for a source of their social outrage and pet projects, because it takes energy and focus away from real life issues.

I know hyper focus on petty things goes back hundreds of years to music, dance, fashion and books, but this is still slapping band aids on bullet holes.

I choose to take a balanced view on this.

[vira]

my feeling is that its a good idea to rename her. i've seen romani people express discomfort with the word for years, in many contexts.

and really, i think that keeping her name is just not the hill to die on. i'd much rather call a pony by a nickname than choose to ignore the fact people that have been hurt by her canonical name.

i like tambourine :-)

[Heelys]

For years, one of the key characters in the cult classic tv series Mystery Science Theater 3000 was a purple robot named Gypsy. She was the sole female robot on the satellite, and for most of the show's run, she was the only recurring woman character, albeit voiced a la Miss Piggy. While not as ubiquitous as the primary robots Tom Servo and Crow, she was still iconic to the show, and her name came from the creator's childhood pet.

The show came out in the early 90s and got a revival in the late 2010s. As of the 2019 live tour, some 30 years after having her name sung in the opening credits for the first time, they quietly changed her name to GPC. Some fans were displeased at how they could modify the name of such a long-running character ("why would you ruin my childhood?!") but most fans understood the logic behind it (I myself had been calling her "Gypsum" or "G" for years). It's a small thing, but it lets marginalized communities know that the world considers their safety more important than an attachment to a warped word meaning or a plastic piece of pop culture.

This always brings discourse out of the woodwork. I think it's best to recognize that it's a historically oppressive term. Tambourine is a lovely name.

[Prince Firefly]

We definitely need a Romani's view on this, it seems.

I never found her name offensive.  Gypsy is a word for a free spirited, mysterious woman too. And its a popular horse name besides.

How about we let them decide, and follow their lead on it?

I'm also really tired of people using toys/media for a source of their social outrage and pet projects, because it takes energy and focus away from real life issues.

I know hyper focus on petty things goes back hundreds of years to music, dance, fashion and books, but this is still slapping band aids on bullet holes.

I choose to take a balanced view on this.

We should definitely let them decide. That's why I'll bring this up: G*psy doesn't mean a free-spirited traveller or mysterious woman, that's a part of the racist caricature that media portrays.

I hate to compare it to a non-racial slur, but it's the only connection I can make, but it's akin to using the r slur to mean "stupid/dumb" when it's actually a slur against autistic people (source: I'm autistic and I've been in the autism community for some time- the word is very offensive to us).

You do make a good point with things like this being pushed a bit too hard on little subjects like these. It does go back a long way, but I believe it's more for the sake of stopping usage of the word so it does less harm than it has in the past. It's absolutely slapping bandaids over bullet holes, but for people outside of the minority group in question, it's good practice to start to take the word of your vocabulary. A slow, gradual change, to get used to it.

/nm

I've heard Tambourine as well.
But yeah, there was a long discussion about this in a past thread (her Pony of the Day one?). Seems to be a regional thing.

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,401233.0.html
^ this was the thread

Thanks! I had a feeling this had been discussed before, but forgot where/when.
I'll give this thread a (re)read when I can.

I'm not fond of the "It's not a slur to me" perspective, to be honest

I mean, think of something that is a slur to you. I'm talking unspeakably, we-can't-be-friends-if-you-say-it- bad. Would that be a slur to you if you'd never heard it before? It wouldn't, right? What if someone from a different country told you it's not a slur to them? Would you still be comfortable with Hasbro naming a pony that?

It's a complicated issue, of course, and I don't blame anyone for referring to a pony by her official name or anything like that. But I do think the idea of renaming her is a noble one, whether it catches on or not. Tambourine is a lovely name

I'm from Belgium so English isn't my first language, but I don't perceive this term as a slur or anything insulting. I would be interested to have the opinion of people from that community to have a clearer understanding of what it means to them.

This is something that comes up a lot with slurs! The best way to handle it is to educate yourself on the meaning and history of the word.
See my example with the r slur above! It may not be seen as a slur by neurotypical people, but it is. Just because it isn't seen as one doesn't mean it isn't one.

We already had a discussion about this recently, I'm not from the Gypsy Roma or Traveller communities but from the UK and my take is that it's a non-issue. Gypsy isn't a slur here it's a title. In schools, we formally use the description Gypsy Roma and Traveller to describe any settled or non-settled people who identify as being members of these groups. It's important to distinguish children from these groups since they may have certain requirements like opting out of sex ed in schools or attending gatherings at certain times of the year during school term time. So we respectfully use these terms when discussing policy and procedure. I'm sorry that the situation is different abroad however I don't think that we can or should change her name. At least, I'd be surprised if it catches on. I didn't realise that she was a negative character however, could we see some examples?

This has definitely come up multiple times in the recent past on here.  The concencus seemed to be that British people found the name not offensive while American people found it offensive.  I can't recall what folks from other parts of Europe and the rest of the world thought. I believe the word originated in Britain (among non-Romani populations), so maybe that's a contributing factor..?

Really the word itself is kind of odd since it is based on a historical misidentification, like saying "Indian" and meaning certain native American tribes that have actual names...From what I read previously the Romani didn't seem to have a great deal of concencus on whether they found the term offensive or not.  So it really feels like a gray area at least on the international stage.  But maybe there is more consensus among them then I am aware of. To me, I get the feeling that the word's trajectory is toward slur.  Like maybe it is ambiguous now but in thirty years it will end up more firmly in the slur category.  I mean why would you continue to refer to a population by the name you gave them instead of the name they actually call themselves?

For what it's worth I always called my childhood ponies after their symbols rather than their given names, so if I had had her I certainly would have called her tambourine or whatever I interpreted those symbols to be.

Thank you for bringing this up! I'm from the US, so I was unaware of this.

It's rare to see Native Americans in schools here, at least from what I've seen (mind you, I only went to public school for 3 years), but within the past number of years there's been a huge migration from using the term Indian to using the term Native when it comes to thinks like paperwork and documents. I know a good lot of Natives find the former term offensive (as its been used derogatorily, is misattributed, etc). "G*psy Roma" is better than the normal term, I feel, but take me with a grain of salt- I'm not of that group at all.

Modernly, a lot more Romani people online have been vocal about it being a slur, which is why I brought this up to begin with. I think we should change it for this reason. This is also the reason you'll see me continuously censor the word.

As for G*psy herself being a caricature:

MLW reads, "She lives deep in the forest and tells "the day's fortune" every morning. G*psy is able to foresee the future, look into the past, and perform other magical feats, sometimes with the help of her wheel of fortune. She is one of Majesty's most trusted subjects, as evidenced by Majesty's willingness to show G*psy the secret Book of Horrors in the Secret Room when the red cloud being attacked."
And her backcard, "G*psy entertains all the ponies with her dances — twirling around as she taps out the rythmn on her tambourine. As she runs past her ribbon leaves a colourful trail for all to see."

Caricatures of the Romani people often make them magical people, often witches. Considering the huge amount of negative connotation around that already (witches being "evil", etc, just look in the general direction of the Catholic Church and see how they've characterized this), it's no wonder that it forms a caricature of Romani people. Considering how some modern witches call themselves "g*psy witches" when they aren't of the Romani people themselves, as well as how Romani are portrayed in things like His Dark Materials (while I do love that series, this is the only thing that irks me about it- but it's also a product of its time and made by a UK writer), it shows that this magical, witch-like portrayal is a stereotype.
G*psy would be less offensive if she was based off those who practice paganism in general, and if her name was different. A little change like her name would make a world of difference in her portrayal. Connecting the Romani people to this mystical description at all creates a racist caricature.

When it comes to the clothing and dancing, this stems from cultural appropriation. No doubt a lot of us have seen "g*psy" costumes: flowing skirts, silk fabrics, bells and instruments tied around limbs, tassels, headbands, etc. This is no different to wearing an "Native American" or "Mexican" Halloween costume; they're racist portrayals that push a stereotype, and one that's harmed people by brushing what is actually happening to the Romani under the rug.
"We are NOT your halloween costume. We are NOT your flowy skirt. We are NOT your fashion sense. We are NOT your wanderlust. We are NOT ‘boho.’
Gypsy is not fashion. Gypsy is not traveling. Gypsy is not a headband or a costume, or boho, or a long skirt." - takingbackourculture

For years, one of the key characters in the cult classic tv series Mystery Science Theater 3000 was a purple robot named Gypsy. She was the sole female robot on the satellite, and for most of the show's run, she was the only recurring woman character, albeit voiced a la Miss Piggy. While not as ubiquitous as the primary robots Tom Servo and Crow, she was still iconic to the show, and her name came from the creator's childhood pet.

The show came out in the early 90s and got a revival in the late 2010s. As of the 2019 live tour, some 30 years after having her name sung in the opening credits for the first time, they quietly changed her name to GPC. Some fans were displeased at how they could modify the name of such a long-running character ("why would you ruin my childhood?!") but most fans understood the logic behind it (I myself had been calling her "Gypsum" or "G" for years). It's a small thing, but it lets marginalized communities know that the world considers their safety more important than an attachment to a warped word meaning or a plastic piece of pop culture.

This always brings discourse out of the woodwork. I think it's best to recognize that it's a historically oppressive term. Tambourine is a lovely name.

YOU. YOU MAKE A WONDERFUL POINT. THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS INTO WORDS.

This was a long post, but I wanted to get back to everyone I could.

Post Merge: July 07, 2021, 10:00:19 AM

While I'm here I'm also going to bring up Wigwam.
His name ISN'T a slur which is fine and okay. But he is based off a blatantly racist caricature. Of course, different times, but we also need to acknowledge this too, because it's in the same vein as G*psy.

[Heelys]

Yeah, I always found it interesting that the two most hot-button racial discourse ponies are both the uncommon color of orange. What could this great conspiracy mean?!

[aria_elwen]

Gypsy is Gypsy.

The word Gypsy is not generally a slur in the UK which is where the character originates and it is used as a race identifier within official contexts. That is not to say that the word is accepted by everyone and words are often misused and change with time but it's easy enough to look the topic up within a UK context. To quote a recent parliamentary report:

"We asked many members of the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities how they preferred to describe themselves. While some find the term “Gypsy” to be offensive, many stakeholders and witnesses were proud to associate themselves with this term and so we have decided that it is right and proper to use it, where appropriate, throughout the report."
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmwomeq/360/full-report.html

Also from the government website:


"The term ‘Gypsies and Travellers’ is difficult to define as it does not constitute a single, homogenous group, but encompasses a range of groups with different histories, cultures and beliefs including: Romany Gypsies, Welsh Gypsies, Scottish Gypsy Travellers and Irish Travellers. There are also Traveller groups which are generally regarded as ‘cultural’ rather than ‘ethnic’ Travellers. These include ‘New’ (Age) Travellers and occupational travellers, such as showmen and waterway travellers."

Obviously if there is a mass movement against the term in a UK  context then I will rethink but at the moment there doesn't appear to be.

In my area both Gypsy and Traveller are used to refer to the two different communities that live in this area. The Travellers own caravans both static and non-static and the Gypsies live on the river in boats.