Hasbro getting tough on prototypes on fan sites - Hasbro response page 7

[scarletjul]

Ok, I find this a bit creepy, honestly.

I think that taobao is trafficking stolen goods - they have to be, because one way or another, Hasbro never agreed to let those sellers sell that merchandise and all of those products are either prototype or haven't been distributed yet.  So, I'm okay with Hasbro trying to stop leakage if they want to protect their production.

However, I think their tactics went a little far.  Lying to the guy to get his address, especially when he repeatedly told them he'd already deleted the images as requested and furthermore didn't have the products anyhow, is going a bit far.  Those are just bullying tactics and I think that Hasbro went too far at that point and after the wrong people.  Once the blogger cooperated with the original requests, I think Hasbro should have just politely thanked him and left it at that.

[Flitter]

To those of you who assume that just because the products are manufactured in China that Hasbro are exploiting their workers and are thus inherently asking for their products to be sold illegally,
I suggest reading through Hasbro's site on Corporate Social Responsibility
http://csr.hasbro.com/index.php
Here is a section on Manufacturing Ethics specifically
http://csr.hasbro.com/saf06-manufacturing-ethics.php

[partypony566]

i'd probably fall for it too. "give us your address so we can give you free ponies!!111one!!!1"
i'd be like "OK! here's my work address too!!!! send lots!"

I guess the lesson here is, if Hasbro offers you free items out of the blue, say no!

This!!

[xeevee]

I am going to just echo a couple of other people for a second.  The stuff on Taobao comes from China.  China do not have the same laws as us.  They have a fake Disney land in the middle of Beijing that Disney can't do anything about.  It is common place to take stuff from factories you work for. It probably isn't even considered stealing there.  More of a perk. And you know what?  If it was stealing they would deaerve it!!  These people make around $1 a day. Yes things are cheaper there, but as someone who is about to move to china for work I can tell you, $5 a week buys food, and that's it!  I would take toys and sell them too!!  Want people not to steal stuff from you, pay them for there work!!! Or you know, make it in countries where they give a crap about your rules.

I also want to add, as someone who has dealt with Hasbro Australia for pony fair here.  They are a bunch of tight wads.  We tried to get them involved in 3 fairs.  The first fair they were really pushy about what had to be included for them to be involved.  We followed all their guidelines, and they sent us a small sign with the mlp logo on it.  The second fair they wouldn't even talk to us, and the third they said they only give things to charities and cut communication.  So this may end up being Australia specific.

[babystarz]

No offense meant here, but statements straight from a company are hardly an unbiased source of information. They have a vested interest in presenting a wholesome image of their ethics to the public. I would be morere inclined to take an independent source with no stake in profits at face value.

[xeevee]

To those of you who assume that just because the products are manufactured in China that Hasbro are exploiting their workers and are thus inherently asking for their products to be sold illegally,
I suggest reading through Hasbro's site on Corporate Social Responsibility
http://csr.hasbro.com/index.php
Here is a section on Manufacturing Ethics specifically
http://csr.hasbro.com/saf06-manufacturing-ethics.php

That says they follow the rules in China.  Which is pay minimum wage (around $1 a day) and don't hire kids under 14.  Still not a livable wage.   If they cared that much they would manufacture in countries that pay people enough to live on regardless of what it did to the cost of toys.  You do know toys are a luxury item?

It also doesn't change that the Chinese government and it's people have a completely different set of ethics, and the selling or prototypes and making fakies in factory don't matter to them at all.

[Vintergatan]

To those of you who assume that just because the products are manufactured in China that Hasbro are exploiting their workers and are thus inherently asking for their products to be sold illegally,
I suggest reading through Hasbro's site on Corporate Social Responsibility
http://csr.hasbro.com/index.php
Here is a section on Manufacturing Ethics specifically
http://csr.hasbro.com/saf06-manufacturing-ethics.php

That says they follow the rules in China.  Which is pay minimum wage (around $1 a day) and don't hire kids under 14.  Still not a livable wage.   If they cared that much they would manufacture in countries that pay people enough to live on regardless of what it did to the cost of toys.  You do know toys are a luxury item?

It also doesn't change that the Chinese government and it's people have a completely different set of ethics, and the selling or prototypes and making fakies in factory don't matter to them at all.

Absolutely true xeevee.

I am someone who is involved in Corporate Evnironmental Responsibility (a subgroup of CSR) so i pretty much know how those things go. Simply having a CSR statement does not mean that you are indeed a responsible company. A lot of it is whitewashing. As far as I am concerned, knowing the situation in Chinese factories (as I do) I don't even need to read theirs to know that what they are doing is unacceptable (as xeevee stated).

All I´m really trying to say here is that people need to remember that rules and laws are not the same everywhere. To us in the western world, the copyright might sound like a given and breaking it sounds highly unethical. However, as someone who has dabbled in copyright law, I would like to point out that copyright is simply a creation of our cultures that we are imposing on others, usually to their detriment.

I completely understand that many are scandalized by these practices, and you would have full right to be had that been done in your country where you know the rules and respect them. It is not equally justified if the situation is vastly different somewhere else - and it´s there where Hasbro is having issues ^^

[Elisto]

It's true factory workers in China get paid terribly, and it's true China has different attitudes about copyright (although my Chinese roommate tells me they are aware and do understand our view of it). However, we don't know exactly who's selling the prototypes or why, and I see no reason to think people in other countries wouldn't do the same thing if they thought they could get away with it.

Hasbro's tactics here may be sketchy, but I really wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know about Taobao. There are members here on the Arena who don't know what it is! I doubt Hasbro has people who just search MLP stuff online regularly to monitor what fans are up to. They may very well have thought this guy had actual contacts and was more involved than he actually is.

I think Hasbro's way of dealing with this or getting information maybe wrong, and they may very well be exploiting the bad worker/salary situation in China, but so is just about every other major company. So personally, sure, I'm not happy with them for that, but them trying to track down what very well may be stolen property is the last thing I'm going to get angry with them for.

[LadyMoondancer]

Personally, I don't feel any pity for Hasbro for losing out on a few dollars when they are making MEGA $$$$ by setting up factories in countries without much care for workers' rights or decent pay.   Hasbro reaped the positive benefits of that setup . . . super cheap production costs.  Now they can deal with the negatives . . . workers so desperate for money that they are willing to risk losing their jobs by smuggling toys out of the factory and selling them for amazingly cheap prices. 


If it bothers them so much maybe they should bring their manufacturing back to the US where they have more control.  But to purposely move their work to somewhere with minimal government interest in having oversight of their factories, and then get all pissy because there is minimal government interest in enforcing copyright laws?   No.  The sword swings both ways.

[sabathamk]

I can hardly believe I've read through all this.  I still have one thing to say... it wasn't Hasbro that came to this guy's door.  It was the legal company they hired.  This guy should contact hasbro directly and tell them what the company they hired has done.  THEN see what happens.  This is a big company, it has been said so many times.  A big company like this would not care about the one little guy like him.  No, but they will hire some other company to look at why so much of their product is going missing/leaked.  I think everyone here pointing fingers at hasbro and saying they are a big bad company is a bit harsh.  The bigger the company, the harder it is to manage.  You have many people managing many areas, under many superior managers, eventually under a 'head' manager, and that 'head' is only going to hear about the big stuff because they can't possibly take the time for all the little things.  So the toys are made in China.  That is where they were able to make lots of toys cheaper and provide jobs for those many many people.  I don't know about the Chinese laws or about how Hasbro is treating their employees.  Apparently, they are holding to those laws.  Good.  In China, their laws are being upheld.  If the Chinese government wants to treat their people better, they will change their laws.  Not to mention, minimum wage differs from country to country, mainly based upon each country's cost of living.  We don't agree with it here, but that is the way it is there.  Perhaps Hasbro is going above and beyond?  If they weren't doing a good job, people wouldn't work there, would they?  Perhaps the people there love their job and are happy?  I don't know, honestly, but I do know that the media out here loves to twist and warp things to get 'a story', and the situations we think all factories out there are like may actually have only been one really bad factory.  Truth is in the eye of the beholder... and can easily be warped by our media. 

Anyway... if we know that the items on Taobao should not legally be sold in Canada or the USA, should we be buying them (to clarify, this is a question I've asked myself, for myself)? Now I am not going to get mad at people who buy stuff from Taobao... it is up to you, nobody really knows if the stuff is stolen, or if it is legal in China to do what they are doing or whatnot.  I myself will not buy from them.  I don't need that item that badly, and don't want to cause issues within myself over the validity of an "item".  It could be considered the same as buying an item from a dollar store to some people.  That is fine.  I just think that everyone getting on Hasbro's case about all this is rediculous.  We love Ponies, right?  Hasbro makes ponies.  They are a huge company.  They need to make money to keep their company going, so they can make more ponies.  So why are we putting them down for doing what they can to keep their business operating/growing?

I don't know... I guess I just get really upset reading how everyone is 'poo pooing' on a company like this.  If I had stuff stolen and leaked all the time, I'd want to find out why and if I was a big company like Hasbro with little time to do it myself, I'd also hire someone and trust them to do their job properly.  I think the blame needs to be on the lawyers here, not on Hasbro themselves.

I think I may have gone off topic a bit. For that, I am sorry.  And I'm sorry if I sounded mean or offensive in any way.  I don't mean to at all.  I sincerely hope the workers in China are treated well and have good jobs.  I also hope this blogger is able to reconnect with his love of nerf guns and continue his blog after all this garbage he's gone through.  I just think a lot of people are getting angry at the wrong people and we need to step back a bit.  Just saying. 

[saply]

I can hardly believe I've read through all this.  I still have one thing to say... it wasn't Hasbro that came to this guy's door.  It was the legal company they hired.  This guy should contact hasbro directly and tell them what the company they hired has done.  THEN see what happens.  This is a big company, it has been said so many times.  A big company like this would not care about the one little guy like him.  No, but they will hire some other company to look at why so much of their product is going missing/leaked.  I think everyone here pointing fingers at hasbro and saying they are a big bad company is a bit harsh.  The bigger the company, the harder it is to manage.  You have many people managing many areas, under many superior managers, eventually under a 'head' manager, and that 'head' is only going to hear about the big stuff because they can't possibly take the time for all the little things.  So the toys are made in China.  That is where they were able to make lots of toys cheaper and provide jobs for those many many people.  I don't know about the Chinese laws or about how Hasbro is treating their employees.  Apparently, they are holding to those laws.  Good.  In China, their laws are being upheld.  If the Chinese government wants to treat their people better, they will change their laws.  Not to mention, minimum wage differs from country to country, mainly based upon each country's cost of living.  We don't agree with it here, but that is the way it is there.  Perhaps Hasbro is going above and beyond?  If they weren't doing a good job, people wouldn't work there, would they?  Perhaps the people there love their job and are happy?  I don't know, honestly, but I do know that the media out here loves to twist and warp things to get 'a story', and the situations we think all factories out there are like may actually have only been one really bad factory.  Truth is in the eye of the beholder... and can easily be warped by our media. 

Anyway... if we know that the items on Taobao should not legally be sold in Canada or the USA, should we be buying them (to clarify, this is a question I've asked myself, for myself)? Now I am not going to get mad at people who buy stuff from Taobao... it is up to you, nobody really knows if the stuff is stolen, or if it is legal in China to do what they are doing or whatnot.  I myself will not buy from them.  I don't need that item that badly, and don't want to cause issues within myself over the validity of an "item".  It could be considered the same as buying an item from a dollar store to some people.  That is fine.  I just think that everyone getting on Hasbro's case about all this is rediculous.  We love Ponies, right?  Hasbro makes ponies.  They are a huge company.  They need to make money to keep their company going, so they can make more ponies.  So why are we putting them down for doing what they can to keep their business operating/growing?

I don't know... I guess I just get really upset reading how everyone is 'poo pooing' on a company like this.  If I had stuff stolen and leaked all the time, I'd want to find out why and if I was a big company like Hasbro with little time to do it myself, I'd also hire someone and trust them to do their job properly.  I think the blame needs to be on the lawyers here, not on Hasbro themselves.

I think I may have gone off topic a bit. For that, I am sorry.  And I'm sorry if I sounded mean or offensive in any way.  I don't mean to at all.  I sincerely hope the workers in China are treated well and have good jobs.  I also hope this blogger is able to reconnect with his love of nerf guns and continue his blog after all this garbage he's gone through.  I just think a lot of people are getting angry at the wrong people and we need to step back a bit.  Just saying. 

Just want to say this is a good post.

[Wardah]

Hasn't Hasbro been making their toys in China since before G1? I seem to remember China being on their hooves. They used to still package them here but the workers here got greedy and wanted more than double minimum wage and still have benefits. The situation in China is awful but the companies often had no other option unless they only wanted to sell to millionaires.

[StoryDreamer]

I'm with hasbro - that's their property and they have a right to expect it to not be released early.

[Snapdragon]

Personally, I don't feel any pity for Hasbro for losing out on a few dollars when they are making MEGA $$$$ by setting up factories in countries without much care for workers' rights or decent pay.   Hasbro reaped the positive benefits of that setup . . . super cheap production costs.  Now they can deal with the negatives . . . workers so desperate for money that they are willing to risk losing their jobs by smuggling toys out of the factory and selling them for amazingly cheap prices. 


If it bothers them so much maybe they should bring their manufacturing back to the US where they have more control.  But to purposely move their work to somewhere with minimal government interest in having oversight of their factories, and then get all pissy because there is minimal government interest in enforcing copyright laws?   No.  The sword swings both ways.

Yep, all of this. If they have a problem with their toys being released early, they need to go to the source to stop it - harassing the buyers on a one-on-one basis isn't a good use of time, for one, and it's bullying for another. Gross, all around. >:[

[WingsOfMasquerade]

The key here is

"Never Attack Your Fans - ESPECIALLY very vocal super devoted ones who buy webspace on their own dime, for your product"

That'll turn more sour to them than anything else. 1 big blabbermouth is bad, but someone inciting all this rage at shady tactics is way something else. It turns free advertising into so much negativity. The Chinese people / taobao aren't fans. They can freely bother/shut them down without fan backlash.

But this raises an issue that'll be moreso in the future:
3D Printing & Selling the Fans What They Want

If they had just MADE a Pony Hooves / Ditzy Doo, no one would of stolen one for big bucks
If they had just MADE White Celestia after everyone demanded one, stealing one wouldn't be needed

Stealing is wrong, but they can't stop the stealing. (making fans hate you is not the way to stop others from theiving)
What they CAN do stop is the reason people steal.

Lego is on the forefront of this, because their product is all 1 plastic, and can easily be 3D modeled.
As 3D printers pricedrop, Lego is going to have to deal with people replicating the bricks at home.

But, it has to do with MLP because Opalesence had it JUST right:
"The fans must shut up and do as we say till we tell them what to want, and also when to want it."

It is actually the way of it now: "No one wants G1, no one likes petites, those things would never sell"
But in the future, with this 3D printing (there's already PirateBay type stuff dedicated to it) they won't be able to say such things any more. But big companies tend to not see the solution either which is

Listen to your fans, listen to your buyers
Give them what they want at a cost reasonable for company, worker AND buyer
Do it in a timely manner, and to all interested areas

There'll still be that 1% malcontent that steals because 'robbing is cool / 'the man' needs to get hit / trolls / whatever' but they'll never stop that. Only when it's widespread is it super harmful. But if you follow the above 3 things, it doesn't get widespread. Because the fans get what they want, when they want it and are happy with the product.