How does the cost-availability of a BJD affects her?

[yaizel]

lately i been thinking about this for so long.
Ive seen a lot of posts here an there talking about recasts. that made me thought about why people go for them,  costs? specific skin color? limited edition no longer available?
they are artist handmade and so are pretty difficult to find?

What would happen then if suddenly in this imaginary world BJD decreased their costs? let say you were able to find Minifee for $150, and for an extra cost get her on a uncommon color? would you totally go for them, or wait until recast went for $50?
or you would be less interested on bjd cus they wouldnt be less super-special-not everyone-has-one?

im really interested on the matter as at some point i want to create and sell some, but i been slow at crafting them because the issue of recasts, (getting your artwork stolen and sold by somewhere else and bought by others that say they like your work pretty much feels like they are stealing a piece of your soul and like being staved on the back by the ones who buy it, and it sucks) so i was wondering what could help reduce such scenario?
what are your personal thoughts?

this is not intended to go onto a recast fight , its a -what would you do to/what could change this situation?-

any comment would be highly appreciated

[Taxel]

I support recasts, but never of easily available dolls in company colors (unless the company is some horrible nightmare). The only reasons to buy recasts straight from recasters is if you're getting a special skintone and/or the doll is retired/was limited/etc and costs insane amounts of money to buy secondhand. Buying a cheap normal skintone head for faceup practice is also okay with me. I'm never ever ever okay with OOAKs/art dolls/etc or dolls from extremely small companies (for example, just one artist doing everything) being recast without permission.

If companies offered a wider variety of skintones, especially multiple tans and fantasy colors, I think that would help reduce recasting. If I could buy my dream doll in my dream skintone and not have to worry about ruining a doll that cost hundreds of dollars with dye, I'd save up to buy it from the company instead.

[suppi]

I'm with Taxel on this one. I can tolerate them to a point, as in people own really rare Volks Limiteds that go for 2K+ on the second hand market. Volks got their money and buying a doll at an inflated price to fatten someone else's wallet needlessly is never fun. Same goes for limited colors, my dream doll is a Volks SDGr Okita head on the SD16 body in ebony and unless I win the dream FCS it will never happen, ever. So I can see why people recast that too. Hell even I've been tempted to order a pink Unoa Lusis more than once but tell myself no.

I think buying a doll that is readily available in the skin tone you want just because it is cheaper is nothing but self entitlement.

[SwordPony]

I personal will never buy a recast. It's unfair to the company that made the doll in the first place. Just because a company already has there money doesn't mean that gives the rights to someone to make a recast.

Limited edition dolls are limited for a reason. Just like with ponies. The less there are of them the more they sale for on the resale market.

[MiRaja]

Is it not illegal in the first place? 

See, I cannot get behind the idea of buying a BJD, they're too expensive, especially in context with the rest of the doll world.  They're very pretty, I think, but I could have a very fine German bisque doll for their price, which is an item that will surely appreciate.  ;  I don't know so much about these new ball joint dolls.  Maybe they will continue to appreciate, but I doubt it.  At least not in the long term.  That said, I wouldn't buy a knock off recast in order to get a cheaper item. 

My worries are also quality and construction of these dolls, the vinyls and plastics and such.  Most MLP collectors should know a thing or two about that, and I had friends who had dolls who had lost color or had turned greenish in their short lives.  That would be an even more increased problem with a knock off.  Which, yes, a recast would be a knock off.  There's going to be little care to quality of materials, just quick demand, ya know? 

[suppi]

Limited edition dolls are limited for a reason. Just like with ponies. The less there are of them the more they sale for on the resale market.

I'm not trying to be rude or attack you, I seriously just want a nice discussion about this topic. I rarely get the chance. ^^''

I've seen a trend in the pony world where people make customs of super rare ponies like Lady Bird, Ice Crystal, Greek Birthday etc. However I have yet to see this affect the price of said real ponies although a lot of the customs could easily pass off for real. This, I think, also reflects in the BJD world. I'm not saying it's right but I don't think that recasts of limited dolls really affect the prices of legits. A lot of people in this hobby are into their brand names and will happily shell out the money for a legit.

MiRaja, the sad part is, a lot of recasts can easily pass off as legit. Volks dolls will have fake head-plates and recast Fairyland dolls are really starting to match in color to real ones to the point of having a fake next to a legit and you can't tell the difference. :c

[Taxel]

Is it not illegal in the first place? 

There is a lot of debate on this subject. A few (or at least one?) companies have hired lawyers to try and figure it out. I don't remember what the conclusions were, though, but I know I've seen stuff posted on Tumblr about it. From what I've seen and heard a lot (if not most/all) recasting occurs in China. The two recasters I personally know of are Chinese and sell through Taobao (and email, at least for one of them).

[Tagi]

The world is never black and white, just shades of grey. I do not agree with recasting in the BJD world (as in recasts of complete already available dolls limited or not) are for the most part inferior and for the most part there is a lot of question as to just how safe their resin is.

Some Pullip and Blythe knock-offs out there (and recast dolls are knock-offs) that are 100% not safe to be anything but living on a high up shelf, well away from anything living as the fumes they give off alone could contain any number of toxins or carcinogens. Don't even try to cut into the plastic. (No I can't list them off the top of my head - I have read about them at another forum but I don't know if I'm aloud to mention which?)

The companies that do put lots of time, energy and love in to their dolls are not always mega huge ones like Volks - the smaller ones are also hurt by recasting. Why pay $700 for something when you can pay $150 for something that looks identical? I do see it as recasters stole that money out of the pocket from sculpters and designers from the companies, the people who deserved it, and people that buy into recasts fuel this.

On the MH side of things, there was someone who was recasting CAM torsos a while back - and yeah I bought some. There was no official way to get CAM torsos from Mattel without buying entire new CAM packs, and she cast them in so many different colours! She even had transparent glitter ones! But then Mattel released the torso pack, and I bought it to replace the cast torsos. Mostly because the cast ones were flawed and wouldn't hold the arms as well, but man I do miss those colours. She also recast some MH shoes and they are perfect - I have a ruby glitter pair which I love and are still on my doll.

I have in my BJD collection three bjd dolls of the same sculpt in three different company colours. There is a fourth colour I do not have (bronze) - even so I wouldn't buy a recast in that colour. Recasting aside, I wouldn't want to take the easy way out -  I want to hunt down and own the genuine deal, no matter how long or how much money it takes in the end. If someone was selling a recast in say...lilac...would I so easily say no? I probably would say no because I know that even though that the particular company that puts out these dolls is well known and recognised they actually arn't that big company-wise compared to say Volks.

Why am I ok to buy recast MH parts? Is it because Mattel is a multi-million dollar company who make billions regardless, or was it because it was only parts and not complete dolls?

As for the possible unsafe resin, there is also some debate over just how safe genuine properly made BJD resin is. Some more food for thought.

[SoldierofTwilight]

Sorry to say, but I will buy a recast. I just can't fathom dishing out $700-2k on a doll, no matter if it is limited edition or not. I would buy a recast because of the money, the limited quantity, and over inflation. To be honest, these companies do not have a "copy-right" so to speak for their designs, sadly.

But I just recently got into the BJD world, and sadly all of the dolls I've fallen in love with were made ages ago, years..literally unobtainable. So yes, I will buy a recast because it is not available to get otherwise...which means the original company isn't able to make the money anyway. If they made them available for a slightly lower price or for a longer time, they'd make more money and have happier people not going to recasters. It's not like I will be buying a recast to sell for profit. These will be in my own personal collection to adore their beauty and design.

It's a bit hypocritical to argue with someone about buying a more expensive recast doll compared to something on a cheaper scale. No matter what the price is, it's still the same. Just like downloading music and movies and books and games...etc etc..

However, if it is a reasonably priced doll, I'll buy it from the original manufacturer, like the Unicorn Bory and Soom's Cheshire Twins doll. I purchased both and have them on payplans.

Just my opinion though. It's the buyers that make the market so high. If you're willing to buy it, they will make it so expensive. I purchased my first motorcycle for less than what I'm seeing some of these dolls go for!

[SwordPony]

If your on DOA they have a topic (The consequences of copied dolls) going on right now for this as well.

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?219494-The-consequences-of-copied-dolls

[SoldierofTwilight]

If your on DOA they have a topic (The consequences of copied dolls) going on right now for this as well.

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?219494-The-consequences-of-copied-dolls

Yup.

[Vertefae]

I've owned recasts in the past. They're rather well made for the most part. I did end up selling them because I'd rather support the companies that make the sculpt in the first place. I don't judge anyone who chooses to own them however. I don't see them as being any worse than knock off purses or designer clothes. It's just not for me.

[Wardah]

While I do not have a recast, I can't even afford all the playline stuff I want oooops I actually think the existence of recasts is a good thing since it can pressure the market to change. Maybe if the more expensive companies actually charged a fair price, didn't make everything so limited, and offered more color options, the recast market would dry up. And they can afford to do this since there are inexpensive legit companies that do.

People on DOA are likely to be biased about recasts. A lot of them sell dolls second hand on the marketplace. I think it is crazy how some people expect double or more what they paid on it for a used, damaged doll. It would be like someone expecting $100 for a baity Peachy just because "it's from the 80's and isn't made anymore".

[SoldierofTwilight]

While I do not have a recast, I can't even afford all the playline stuff I want oooops I actually think the existence of recasts is a good thing since it can pressure the market to change. Maybe if the more expensive companies actually charged a fair price, didn't make everything so limited, and offered more color options, the recast market would dry up. And they can afford to do this since there are inexpensive legit companies that do.

People on DOA are likely to be biased about recasts. A lot of them sell dolls second hand on the marketplace. I think it is crazy how some people expect double or more what they paid on it for a used, damaged doll. It would be like someone expecting $100 for a baity Peachy just because "it's from the 80's and isn't made anymore".

Yeah, I completely agree! That's how artificial inflation happens.

I am making payments on a seller that isn't doing a "recast", but making the doll cast from her own mold because no companies sell dolls dark enough to be a real Drow. So, I do support artists and individuals, even the companies (as I mentioned I AM buying Bory from Luts and the Cheshire Cat from Soom legit). If they would just make the dolls for a longer period of time or offer them for more affordable prices, I doubt they would have too many issues.  I'm sorry, but I don't make 6 figures a year, I'm pretty much on a low income job that doesn't give me crap for benefits, so every dollar I earn has to be spent wisely. When I can invest $200-300 on a doll rather than $800 for my own personal collection, I will.

I see this as a lost opportunity for the big companies, because they chose not to make the dolls anymore. The people making the casts BOUGHT their dolls legit, bought the material legit, and then basically get paid a "commission" to remake that mold? Sound familiar? That's like saying what SoulCookies Co does is wrong too. They make a resin pony from the molds they make and sell em customized. I don't find anything wrong with that. The company made their money from the ponies they purchased. There.

[brightberry]

I think it depends on how common recasts become.  I don't think owners of expensive dolls are  happy to find out someone else bought an identical doll of equal quality for a cheaper price somewhere else.  That would make them disinclined to buy another doll.  Then you would also have people who don't buy a doll because they could buy the recast later.

The reason why people choose to pay such high prices is because they are limited editions.  They want to own something special and unique.  So I can see how recasts hurt businesses that specialize in unique and hurt the people who buy such dolls as a potential investment.

But again, it depends on how common quality recasts become.