The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Wardah on October 02, 2020, 10:51:32 AM
-
How do you think they should determine what color for the rerelease? Especially if the existing backcard art contradicts the current color most of the existing example are. These are 40 year old toys and I think it's impossible to avoid discoloration once they reach a certain age. Like for example I've noticed Star Hopper and Sky Rocket are both listed as green on My Little Wiki but look like blue in the backcard art. If Basic Fun ends up doing the Sparkle Ponies which colors should they be?
-
I think Sky Rocket is in that weird blue-or-green-depending-on-who-you-ask range, but I've always seen her as blue. Star Hopper is green to me. I'm pretty sure the backcards aren't always reliable, aren't there a few instances of species swaps?
A combination of an in-person example and online photographs is how I would do it. I kind of don't want them to make the sparkle ponies though, unless they went with the mail order versions. I don't really care for sparkle ponies and I feel like HQG1C is filling that niche quite well.
-
I'm sure there are challenges but I think a bit of research would be of the most benefit. There are a lot of pictures of ponies out there and understanding how discoloration works should also help.
-
Ah.
I always wished I had a big collection, because I thought it would be fun to pantone match ponies and their hair.. and then catalogue them (w color correction).
I am a little bit of a color nerd, lol.
Sometimes blue / green colors can be a bit finicky when you think of cool greens and blues. Honestly though.. And fading/discoloration into that mix... and yikes. >_<! But.... I think blue / green should be a category in itself.
If I went off my memory as a kid, at the time, I considered Sky Rocket to be blue at that time. (It's one of those weird things that stuck with me.)
As long as Sky Rocket was a bit more blue then Star Hopper... I think that's fine.
-
Sky Rocket is blue.
HOWEVER!
I have noticed that the MO can lean more towards blue-green.
But my childhood store bought one is unambiguously blue. And I'm like banditpony - colour picky.
Starglow is similar. She is blue. BUt some are greener.
I have quite a few ponies that are variants by dint of their batch being slightly darker or lighter. Parasol can be strawberry or raspberry pastel pink depending on the batch, for example.
And then you get regional variations, such as the hair tone on Tuneful, which is undoubtedly more orange red in the US than over here. There are shade differences on the body too but the hair is more obvious.
The bottom line is that production in the 1980s did have a fair amount of batch variety. People just don't pay a lot of attention to it I guess?
On the subject of Star Hopper. None of these are discoloured.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
..Discuss.
If you're observant you can see differences on the symbol sizes, position and colouring as well.
-
your Star Hoppers are pretty, my stupid MO Star Hopper has the dark head and light body , but to suy another one is such a pain, they are so expensive...
My 2 Bright Glows have a huge color difference, too
-
your Star Hoppers are pretty, my stupid MO Star Hopper has the dark head and light body , but to suy another one is such a pain, they are so expensive...
My 2 Bright Glows have a huge color difference, too
There are some major and minor differences in most of the ponies in 1991-2's range, but the glowing magic/glow and show seem to be some of the most extreme. The pocket ponies are also quite diverse - from fading pink to non fading pink hair, or even coral hair. Then there's Pretty Beat as well whose colouring differs between releases. She's a lot darker when she has the dark purple hair.
I assume my two mail order Starhoppers came from different year batches.
But
-
Sky Rocket is blue.
HOWEVER!
I have noticed that the MO can lean more towards blue-green.
But my childhood store bought one is unambiguously blue. And I'm like banditpony - colour picky.
Starglow is similar. She is blue. BUt some are greener.
I have quite a few ponies that are variants by dint of their batch being slightly darker or lighter. Parasol can be strawberry or raspberry pastel pink depending on the batch, for example.
And then you get regional variations, such as the hair tone on Tuneful, which is undoubtedly more orange red in the US than over here. There are shade differences on the body too but the hair is more obvious.
The bottom line is that production in the 1980s did have a fair amount of batch variety. People just don't pay a lot of attention to it I guess?
On the subject of Star Hopper. None of these are discoloured.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
..Discuss.
If you're observant you can see differences on the symbol sizes, position and colouring as well.
They're all beautiful, but that one in the middle...:happy:
-
I’m in love with that bright green Star Hopper! :inlove: If they make a rerelease, I hope they go with that color. :D
I had never known there WERE discoloration issues with Sky Rocket. :blink: Both of mine are a vibrant, distinct blue.
-
Sky Rocket is blue.
HOWEVER!
I have noticed that the MO can lean more towards blue-green.
But my childhood store bought one is unambiguously blue. And I'm like banditpony - colour picky.
Starglow is similar. She is blue. BUt some are greener.
I have quite a few ponies that are variants by dint of their batch being slightly darker or lighter. Parasol can be strawberry or raspberry pastel pink depending on the batch, for example.
And then you get regional variations, such as the hair tone on Tuneful, which is undoubtedly more orange red in the US than over here. There are shade differences on the body too but the hair is more obvious.
The bottom line is that production in the 1980s did have a fair amount of batch variety. People just don't pay a lot of attention to it I guess?
On the subject of Star Hopper. None of these are discoloured.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
..Discuss.
If you're observant you can see differences on the symbol sizes, position and colouring as well.
The one on the right is not only the one I used to have but also the one I have now. The one on the left is slightly greener. That one in the middle is pure green, no two ways about that!!!
-
I don't think there are necessarily discolouration "issues" ...I mean, all ponies can discolour, and the translucent plastic the sparklies has can go funny in too much sunlight. But there's also a differencer in the type of plastic used between store and MO - at least, if you compare them the MO ones are usually denser in the glitter and more opaque.
The disclaimer to that is that all my regular sparklies (6 loose and 3 MOC) are from the UK, and all the MO six are from either the US or Canada (as we only had the store ones) so I don't know if there is more blurring of those lines over there. But in my experience the more translucent plastic/wider spaced glitter is more common in store releases. And that also impacts colour.
But there is an old habit to assume all those differences are discolouration - and they aren't all, some are, but some are batch, like my Starhoppers. So that means sometimes those things are getting missed because its assumed to be damage.
Just like originally people tried to tell me coral Starglow was a reroot :rolleyes: even though her body tone is also different. I'm so happy there are more of those in circulation now, as it's kind of shot that rumour down as myth.
-
On the subject of Star Hopper. None of these are discoloured.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
That's just the thing. How do you know they aren't discolored? It's not like you have a brand new straight from the factory pony to compare it to. And slow change over time is hard to notice.
-
It would be really silly to suggest that Starhopper A could magically have once been the same colour as Star Hopper B, and at the same time the symbol magically changed colour and size and position, because of discolouration damage. And although G3 ponies have problems with glitter disappearing or changing with age and such, G1 ponies do not have this issue. So it would also be a bit odd to assume the distribution of the glitter also magically changed from A to C, or the other way around, as well as the opacity of the plastic, just on account of discolouration.
Then there's provenance. Because my yellow haired Star Hopper originated here in the UK, I am pretty sure she was produced slightly later than even the store releases in the US. The MO ponies came out the year or so before the store release even in the US. So that indicates they would have been different batches anyway. Another less controversial example of that is the Sweetberry ponies - who were produced for the N. American market in 1988 and Europe in 1990. In that 2 years some of them lost their forelocks, because by 1990 it was less common to produce ponies with forelocks than it had been in 1988.
The key thing is not that discolouration does not happen, it's that assuming everything is discolouration is not correct. I've had my fair share of discoloured sparkle ponies, but these are not they.
Discoloured sparklies tend to show some yellowing, and the discolouring is not necessarily even throughout. MO Sparklies seem most prone to discolouring, but as I said, the extreme of colour difference between the two MO ponies I have makes it fundamentally impossible for them to have started off the same, even if both did have their symbols in the same places.
And the store release happened later, and the plastic opadity and glitter density on the store release Sparklies is different from the MO ponies, so it's only logical they'd be different shades overall.
It's been a frustration of mine for some time that people tend to dump every single batch difference into a discoloured category, when in fact discolouration and batch difference are not the same thing. While it's true that small changes can happen over time (and may have done to a minor degree), the point is that these three ponies were never the same colour, and that's normal, and should not be treated with the kneejerk assumption that one of them discoloured.
Looking at this kind of variation is for me an extension of the original work I did on identifying what ponies were sold with variations between the US and Europe in the late 1990s, though. It's something that has always interested me.
TBH it sounds to me like you're assuming they must be discoloured because other people/the Wiki told you sparkle ponies always discolour. IMO it's always better to make a judgement pony by pony based on an assessment of all of the pony's features, because batch variations are actually pretty common and normal.
A quick note - except in a few cases, batch differences don't make a pony worth more. It's just something that is pretty normal with most pony releases, because of the nature of pony production.
-
I didn't mean the variations were discoloration. I meant that some kinds of discoloration are unavoidable and just due to age and breakdown of materials. I just used the sparkle ponies just as an example but really this could happen to any pony or even other toys.
-
I didn't mean the variations were discoloration. I meant that some kinds of discoloration are unavoidable and just due to age and breakdown of materials. I just used the sparkle ponies just as an example but really this could happen to any pony or even other toys.
You actually asked how I knew my ponies were not discoloured, which seemed quite specifically aimed at these particular variations. And I don't remember anyone saying that discolouration doesn't happen - I certainly said the opposite. So really we aren't disagreeing and I am not sure why you singled out my sparkles if you weren't talking about them? It was a bit misleading if that wasn't your intent.
Is it unavoidable? I am not sure that is true in all cases, there are still examples of Gingerbread, Quackers, Starshineetc who have not yet succumbed. Discolouration is not universal across all white ponies. Some batches are actually more susceptible than others (Starshine is an example here).
My point was that it's far too easy and frankly, pretty erroneous to assume a shade difference = discolouration. That absolutely doesn't mean discolouration doesn't happen, and it's equally erroneous to assume all shade differences are variation/batch differences. You really have to look at ponies case by case.
A lot of things also influence discolouration as well as the plastic - such as heat, light, exposure to other chemicals or conditions, such as smoke. Those are not inevitable, but relate to storage choices or living conditions of one family that may not apply to another.
-
Good points Taf. And aren't there batch variations on several ponies anyway, like Twilight (unicorn) Gardenia Glow, Baby Bellaluna, and the eternal nemesis Peachy? I mean there are some color differences even between the BF ponies.
-
I don't know enough about the G3s except that I know there are some (which also have different hair rooting I think so that's clearly not discolouration or fading). But Twilight, yes. All the rainbow babies, too. The Teeny tiny babies (not the twins, I don't know about those.) Many many ponies. All the ponies with multiple year releases probably have some variations on them somewhere. It's working out which those are vs what is aging. But there's for way too long been this trend of just saying everything is discolouration, and I guess my point is that sometimes it is, but assuming that sparkle ponies that show different shades MUST be discoloured is not correct :)
(Think of all those collector ponies. Esp CC and Blossom O.o. And of course all the shades of Bow Tie, all the different colours of Peachy and Lemon Drop symbols, as you state...even Baby Lemon Drop has at least 2, possibly 3 symbol variations just in her UK stroller release, not including the NC version sold in Europe or the one in baby Blossom's pose, who ALSO has some variations I believe!)
-
But there's still the question of how does one decide what the color should be? That there's factory variants doesn't take away from that if anything it just complicates things even more. Especially if it's a possibility that none in the original color might even exist. And should they go for accuracy or what people feel is most correct even if it isn't the original color?
-
IMO all the Sparkle ponies are prone to getting a yellowish discoloration. Since they all start out different colors, it appears slightly different on each of them. But to me the tell is that they all have a similar yellowish tone.
Sorry, it is hard to explain this with words rather than visuals. The best example I can think of is if you took a pic of all the "brightest" looking ones, put the pic in Photoshop, and fiddled with the color slider, you could get all of them to their darker (and IMO discolored) colors.
If we're talking about Basic Fun, though, I doubt they would know that so they would probably reproduce the darker colors because those are more common. Which I wouldn't be broken up about, they're still pretty colors even if they aren't original.
-
I would say that most yellowed ponies are pretty easy to spot out as they are 'tinted' vs going full on yellow in *most* cases (think a yellowed Moondancer vs the actually intentionally yellow Moondancer) but I have seen some Cherry Treats whose shade almost matched yellow Moondancer, so who knows. In the end I definitely think it's a 'play it by ear' sort of thing as there's no all-knowing pony bible that tells us what the Definitive Version of said pony is.
I definitely imagined Heart Throb being a little less yellow, but that's the thing. With how many versions of 'X' pony there are, especially the early ones, there's always going to be someone out there who doesn't think the repro quite matches what they think of as 'X' pony. It's inevitable.
Gardenia Glow can definitely be more on the yellowy-green or on the blue side (or if you're unlucky you can just get one with a head/body mismatch). There's probably more G3s that do this, but I can't think of any more right now. As far as G4 goes Feathermay comes to mind as she can vary pretty significantly on how vibrant her body is (and it's pretty much impossible to find her without a head/body mismatch, whoops).
-
Yeah, you can see if it's discolouration (albeit it's easier to tell in person than on a photo since photos are subjective when it comes to lots of things like lighting, screen pixels, etc). Sparkle pony discolouration tends to stand out. My store Twinkler has an uneven colour issue due to discolouring. Can you see it in this photo? It's the best immediate example I have.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
The one that is often the most obvious is MO Napper, because she can go full scale brown and that's definitely NOT normal or a batch variation. On the other hand, MO Napper is more yellow than her store counterpart anyway, so if you were to compare store Napper and MO Napper and find the latter to be more yellow, it would not mean she had discoloured.
I think it's just something when you see it you know that's what it is. Which is an unhelpful answer but the best I have.
On the subject of yellow moondancer vs a yellowing old Moondancer.
Yellow Moondancer looks like she's made of cheese. :)
It is really easy to tell them apart. She's just MUCH more actually yellow that you can tell it's intended.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
My regular Moondancer looks ok in that image because of the contrast BUT...
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Here's a comparison including the retro Moondancer as well and you can see that she's not.
And a good example of how batches can actually influence discolouration using Starshine.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
You can tell they're from different production batches because, the colour issue aside, the symbol glitter is applied differently (Second one the symbol has damage) and the dark pink hair tone is slightly different in shade. There is also a difference in the plastic generally though. So even though we think of Starshine as a pony who commonly discolours, the fact is that it is not universal.
Cherry Treats when she discolours tends to go tan, NOT yellow imo. Albeit it seems more common on the versions made in HK, rather than China. I have heard of Chinese ones discolouring, but have never seen one in person (and that's the default version here in the UK). My childhood one is still snow white, as is the other I have, but then so is my HK one. The difference when you look at them together is that the HK one has a more translucent type of plastic - which may be more predisposed to colour issues.
Finally, people like to say Twist and Skyflier have a white streak in their hair. But both my MOC ones have pale pink streaks. The thing is it's hard to know if that's the intention or if it's somehow been coloured by the red in their hair. My loose ones also have pink streaks. If I separate the streak from the mane and put white paper underneath it it is definitely pink, and not white. But you will struggle to find an ID site- or even card or box art - that agrees with that.