The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Off Topic => Topic started by: tailrustedtealeaf on September 04, 2019, 11:15:27 AM

Title: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on September 04, 2019, 11:15:27 AM

This article (https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/09/04/youtube-will-disable-comments-and-personalized-ads-on-childrens-content-in-wake-of-ftc-fine/) describes the whole situation rather well.
Will all toy unboxings be considered kids content? What if I curse a lot in it? What if it's geared towards the older collector? What will become of all of the Littlest Pet Shop videos on Youtube that feature themes such as abuse, lust, and copious amounts of fake blood? (:P but seriously, what will the stance be on that)

Quote

    Anyone watching children's content on YouTube will be considered a child, meaning they will reduce data collection down to the minimum necessary to "support the operation of the service" for those viewers at that time.
    Personalized ads will stop running on children's content.
    Comments and notifications will be disabled on children's content.
    Content creators will be required to identify children's content, and videos will also be categorized that way via machine learning.
    Mandatory annual training for the company's "teams" regarding children's protections.

I know we have a few unboxers on here, as well as those who make videos with the figures. Just curious what everyone's take on it is. I understand where they're coming from but I wonder how the algorithm for these videos will deal with no more comments.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 04, 2019, 11:22:37 AM

Hmm, I'm certainly glad that kids will (hopefully) not be seeing anything inappropriate, but I'm worried how this'll affect us folks, too. Like, this bit has me mildly concerned:

Quote

Anyone watching children's content on YouTube will be considered a child, meaning they will reduce data collection down to the minimum necessary to "support the operation of the service" for those viewers at that time.

What's going to be considered "children's content"? If I feel like watching, I dunno, the MLP:FiM opening then does that count as "children's content"? I'm hoping they're talking about videos specifically marked as "children's content" or something (idk how this all works) instead of YT just arbitrarily deciding what is and isn't directed towards kids, otherwise a lot of stuff could get screwed over by this :/ I mean there's just a lot of stuff in a grey area, right? Like... a clip from, I dunno, an 80s kids show isn't going to be inappropriate for kids, but at the same time, the uploader hasn't necessarily uploaded it for them, you know? Hmmm. I hope we get some more clarification on it all.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Ponyfan on September 04, 2019, 12:19:14 PM

Quote from: Carrehz on September 04, 2019, 11:22:37 AM

Hmm, I'm certainly glad that kids will (hopefully) not be seeing anything inappropriate, but I'm worried how this'll affect us folks, too. Like, this bit has me mildly concerned:

Quote

Anyone watching children's content on YouTube will be considered a child, meaning they will reduce data collection down to the minimum necessary to "support the operation of the service" for those viewers at that time.

What's going to be considered "children's content"? If I feel like watching, I dunno, the MLP:FiM opening then does that count as "children's content"? I'm hoping they're talking about videos specifically marked as "children's content" or something (idk how this all works) instead of YT just arbitrarily deciding what is and isn't directed towards kids, otherwise a lot of stuff could get screwed over by this :/ I mean there's just a lot of stuff in a grey area, right? Like... a clip from, I dunno, an 80s kids show isn't going to be inappropriate for kids, but at the same time, the uploader hasn't necessarily uploaded it for them, you know? Hmmm. I hope we get some more clarification on it all.

That's the part I find worrying too.  What if I want to watch something that YT thinks is for kids and  want to watch something else later that is not for kids?

Also how will unboxing videos that are clearly meant for collectors be classified?

Ponyfan

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Zapper on September 04, 2019, 01:40:48 PM

Being considered a child means your data won't get harvested (too much). I see nothing wrong here.

What I find problematic is how are they going to make sure tagged "kids content" is really for kids? There are lots of evil people out there who are already cutting inappropriate scenes in the middle of kids stuff as mentioned in the article. Now in a perfect world all the material gets reviewed at first but... haha... that would require human work and youtube only relies on its (often questionable) algorithms.

What I find interesting is how commenting on these kid vids is restricted. Good move, tbh. I don't like the tone of the article. Snide remarks about "modern parenting" are so typical whenever adults complain about these things.
No parent can watch their kids 24/7 and kids can gain access to youtube rather easily these days. If you keep them away from tablets, phones and computers they will just use their friends devices.
Also, how are parents responsible for a sick freak putting crap into a Frozen video? You just don't expect Disney videos to suddenly show your child something horrible. You can't sit with your kid for everything, there is chores and work to be done.
Parent sees Elsa video... ok, watch it, kiddo. Parent does something else in the house, suddenly kid screams because a sicko put something in there. If the internet is so dangerous then make the internet more safe. Simple. It's not like kids should be shut out of using technology until they can handle seeing decapitated heads. Nobody should see that sort of crap.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on September 04, 2019, 02:07:27 PM

I'm hoping it mean that anything labeled "children's content" will be more thoroughly reviewed even if it means it will take longer to appear on the site.  And I'm assuming that things not labeled as such won't get that treatment? 

Honestly, I can see why it's a good idea for parents to keep toddlers/ early elementary kids off the internet.  But once they learn how to type and do searches, it's going to be an intense challenge especially as schools encourage it with online assignments and such.   I got lots of push-back from my niece about how treacherous the internet can be.  One teacher encouraged kids to "google" almost everything.  Then there was peer pressure from other kids to go to such-and-such site to play games (full of viruses), watch certain videos.  Ugh.  It was a constant monitoring thing.  So no, I don't blame parents when something off happens.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: okamigirl64 on September 04, 2019, 03:52:49 PM

As a pony toy youtuber my biggest issue is disabling comments. That effectively kills the whole point of the platform! YouTube Kids doesn’t have a commenting system so children can watch videos there without that worry, so why turn them off for adults you do wanna leave a comment?.That’s what upsets me the most.  >_<

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Mewtwofan1 on September 04, 2019, 09:27:28 PM

    I think this might be a good way to get around the not so kid friendly content popping up on children’s YouTube, but I think it needs some tweaks. Like if you are an adult, and comments are disabled due to “children’s content”, there should be a way to bypass this. Perhaps something like a skill testing question (something that children under a certain age wouldn’t know, but somebody older would probably know how to solve) or a PIN number that you can use.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Strawberry Swirl on September 05, 2019, 02:02:13 AM

To be honest I think this is a step in the right direction. It sucks, but the Internet can be a hostile place for young’ins and these days there’s plenty of adults who like things geared toward them that either don’t know how or flat out refuse to keep their contributions that aren’t so family friendly away from the core demograph.

Of course, filters and restrictions should be used on both ends to the fullest extent to take as much precaution as possible. However I think making spaces designed specifically  for our younger online denizens is a fantastic idea. The problem I have is, who or what is in charge of deeming content as “kid stuff,” and on what grounds? Will a MLP video automatically be considered for kids, regardless of the targeted audience according to the uploader/creator of the videos? I’m sure lots of tykes would enjoy watching G1 pony content, but at the end of the day those videos are more for us grown-ups than the kids who only know Twilight and friends.

Hopefully, there will be a method for the uploader to determine who their content is for. This is wishful thinking because what will more than likely happen is they will implement some sort of AI to search for signs, such as keywords, to automatically flag content as one or the other.

Quote from: Zapper on September 04, 2019, 01:40:48 PM

What I find interesting is how commenting on these kid vids is restricted. Good move, tbh. I don't like the tone of the article. Snide remarks about "modern parenting" are so typical whenever adults complain about these things.
No parent can watch their kids 24/7 and kids can gain access to youtube rather easily these days. If you keep them away from tablets, phones and computers they will just use their friends devices.
Also, how are parents responsible for a sick freak putting crap into a Frozen video? You just don't expect Disney videos to suddenly show your child something horrible. You can't sit with your kid for everything, there is chores and work to be done.
Parent sees Elsa video... ok, watch it, kiddo. Parent does something else in the house, suddenly kid screams because a sicko put something in there. If the internet is so dangerous then make the internet more safe. Simple. It's not like kids should be shut out of using technology until they can handle seeing decapitated heads. Nobody should see that sort of crap.

Another important aspect we should consider. Again, it’s unfortunate, but the Internet has all types lurking. Which means that there are individuals who will inject proverbial poison into videos that should be safe for all ages. Again, nobody in the world can (or should) be breathing down their kids’ necks constantly. Even the most dedicated helicopter parent has moments where their eyes are not set on little Susie or Johnny. And kids are known to be curious little creatures.

In addition, the bulk of parents are still mostly oblivious to all this technological nonsense. It would be unfair for us to expect them to know the ins and outs of the darkest reaches of cyberspace. Think about it. If mom can barely use Google and check her email, how is she to look at a video whose thumbnail features Disney characters and realise there could be trouble? There’s a lot of different factors to consider I think when we’re thinking about young people and the Internet.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Zapper on September 05, 2019, 03:17:25 AM

Quote from: okamigirl64 on September 04, 2019, 03:52:49 PM

As a pony toy youtuber my biggest issue is disabling comments. That effectively kills the whole point of the platform! YouTube Kids doesn’t have a commenting system so children can watch videos there without that worry, so why turn them off for adults you do wanna leave a comment?.That’s what upsets me the most.  >_<

I thought it would only disable comments if you put it on YT Kids or tagged it Kid's Content? So I guess the sollution is just don't label it for kids. Label it All Audiences? But I could be wrong. This is only one article and half a opinion piece at that.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: okamigirl64 on September 05, 2019, 05:28:01 AM

Quote from: Zapper on September 05, 2019, 03:17:25 AM

Quote from: okamigirl64 on September 04, 2019, 03:52:49 PM

As a pony toy youtuber my biggest issue is disabling comments. That effectively kills the whole point of the platform! YouTube Kids doesn’t have a commenting system so children can watch videos there without that worry, so why turn them off for adults you do wanna leave a comment?.That’s what upsets me the most.  >_<

I thought it would only disable comments if you put it on YT Kids or tagged it Kid's Content? So I guess the sollution is just don't label it for kids. Label it All Audiences? But I could be wrong. This is only one article and half a opinion piece at that.

If it’s targeted at kids or had kids toys in iit will be flagged as such. So I review mlp toys. It’s meant for everyone but youtube will pick it up as for just for kids.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Zapper on September 05, 2019, 06:05:24 AM

Quote from: okamigirl64 on September 05, 2019, 05:28:01 AM

Quote from: Zapper on September 05, 2019, 03:17:25 AM

Quote from: okamigirl64 on September 04, 2019, 03:52:49 PM

As a pony toy youtuber my biggest issue is disabling comments. That effectively kills the whole point of the platform! YouTube Kids doesn’t have a commenting system so children can watch videos there without that worry, so why turn them off for adults you do wanna leave a comment?.That’s what upsets me the most.  >_<

I thought it would only disable comments if you put it on YT Kids or tagged it Kid's Content? So I guess the sollution is just don't label it for kids. Label it All Audiences? But I could be wrong. This is only one article and half a opinion piece at that.

If it’s targeted at kids or had kids toys in iit will be flagged as such. So I review mlp toys. It’s meant for everyone but youtube will pick it up as for just for kids.

Is this info from youtube or this article? Because if I were you I'd just contact youtube and ask. I honestly don't believe they wouldn't let you unflag it or whatever. They also can't permanently label something "for kids" just because it has toys in it. After all I could be making a gory MLP videos with fake blood and death and skmething like that could never be suitable for kids just because it has MLP in it. Get my drift? You need the option to oppose their selection/flagging alhorithm. Everything else would be illogical because then they'd get just as many problems as they have now.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on September 05, 2019, 07:03:39 AM

I sign in relief because my small person's attitude has increased as she has discovered there is just as much content in comments as the videos. Too bad that she doesn't use YTKids, she has favorite gamer channels that are adults streaming and discussing.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 05, 2019, 07:49:14 AM

Yeah, it was the note about comments being disabled that had me worried. Like Sapphire Rain said, there's a lot of stuff that's not inappropriate or not not intended for kids, but the uploader's really put it on more for adults to be able to chat about it and stuff, you know? I hope we can get some clarification on whether this is an opt-in thing or not. :s I'm really glad they're taking steps to try and lessen kids seeing nasty stuff, I just hope they go about it in a thoughtful way instead of an "all or nothing" sort of approach. (<- awkwardly worded but idk how else to put it x_x)

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on September 05, 2019, 08:10:57 AM

Here (https://youtube.googleblog.com/2019/09/an-update-on-kids.html)'s the official Youtube blog, thingy. I think some people received an email that said that comments would be limited, but I can't find anything that isn't another article.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 05, 2019, 10:23:09 AM

Hm, now I'm even more confused :s Like, this bit:

Quote

In order to identify content made for kids, creators will be required to tell us when their content falls in this category,

...makes it sound like it WILL be an opt-in/out sort of thing (so we can decide whether or not it gets affected by these changes).. but then the following sentence:

Quote

and we’ll also use machine learning to find videos that clearly target young audiences, for example those that have an emphasis on kids characters, themes, toys, or games.

...makes it sound like they'll be deciding for us anyway? :s It'd be nice if they could clarify that one, at least.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on September 05, 2019, 01:58:40 PM

Quote from: lovesbabysquirmy on September 05, 2019, 07:03:39 AM

I sign in relief because my small person's attitude has increased as she has discovered there is just as much content in comments as the videos. Too bad that she doesn't use YTKids, she has favorite gamer channels that are adults streaming and discussing.

That reminds me of Ariel's quote: "If only I could make him understand. I just don't see things the way he does. I just don't see how a world that makes such wonderful things could be bad."

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Ponyfan on September 05, 2019, 02:09:22 PM

I haven’t been feeling well for several days. I see now that I misunderstood the part  about “being considered a child.” I thought that meant that someone watching something labeled as “for kids” wouldn’t be able to watch stuff that’s clearly meant for adults.  :blush:


Ponyfan

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 05, 2019, 02:43:29 PM

Yeah, I read it like that, too. It's not just you, Ponyfan, it's worded sort of weirdly.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: LadyMoondancer on September 05, 2019, 06:57:36 PM

Here's another article about it:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/04/google-youtube-fine-children-privacy-1588267

Which mentions one of the FTC commissioners wanting a stricter penalty and higher level of commitment from Youtube about protecting children's data, because she noted it would be easy for Youtube to say "Just self-identify if you have children's content!"  But if self-identifying as having children's content means a Youtuber has all their ad-revenue cut off--which is the only way Youtubers make money off the platform AFAIK--then surely a lot of Youtubers would just lie?

So far Youtube's strategy seems to be "Oh, just sequester 'kids stuff' like cartoons and toys".  But kids are watching sooo much more than that on Youtube.

Some Youtubers who have a lot of kid-viewers, off the top of my head:

- Stampylongnose (Minecraft channel)
- SimplyNailogical (nail art)
- Safiya Nygaard (fashion, make-up, and general blogs)
- Jenna Marbles (general blogging and has dogs)
- anything involving creepypastas (scary internet stories / urban legends)
- Buzzfeed

Kids long to grow up, so it's natural that they gravitate towards channels featuring adults, especially funny adults.  However, you can't just say "we'll assume everyone watching SimplyNailogical is a child" because adults also watch the channel.

Furthermore it seems very unfair to "toy unboxing" channels etc to assume "everyone watching is a child";  they are going to lose their source of income even from legit adult viewers.  Like GreatBigToybox has a lot of child viewers because they review current, popular toys.  But they also have a lot of parents viewing who want to make sure toys are of good quality before buying them for their kids.

Honestly this seems like a lazy no-effort move from Youtube.  I think they are counting on the FTC not understanding Youtube enough that the FTC won't realize they are still harvesting children's info. 

To me it seems pretty obvious that individual accounts need to be tagged as "child" or "not child" (not visible to the general public, but in the code.)  Youtube could base the tags partly from the self-identified age attached to the account, and also based on the account's behavior, and ALSO by searching for Youtube comments left like "I'm 10" which I see all the time on Youtube.  ("I'm only 10 but I still like 80s music" or whatever.)

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 06, 2019, 08:14:22 AM

Quote from: LadyMoondancer on September 05, 2019, 06:57:36 PM

To me it seems pretty obvious that individual accounts need to be tagged as "child" or "not child" (not visible to the general public, but in the code.)  Youtube could base the tags partly from the self-identified age attached to the account, and also based on the account's behavior, and ALSO by searching for Youtube comments left like "I'm 10" which I see all the time on Youtube.  ("I'm only 10 but I still like 80s music" or whatever.)

I was thinking this, too! The only argument against it I could think of is, I guess not everyone has a YT account? maybe some kids just watch it without an account.. or watch it on their parents' account or w/e... so I'm not sure how that would work. But otherwise, yeah, they should be doing it like this. I can just think of too many pitfalls and grey areas that the current proposal would encounter (worded that awkwardly, sorry).

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: bright rabbit 1 on September 06, 2019, 11:21:04 PM

Well I’m worried about doll customisers who customise dolls that are aimed at adults and not children.

I was thinking of doing a video on my Attack on Titan, Naruto, Fruits Basket, and the others. These shows are not aimed at children.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: LadyMoondancer on September 08, 2019, 12:21:58 PM

I just saw a very sad update on a well-known doll customizer's channel:

Quote

Well, it looks like YouTube is simply killing my channel and the complete doll customizers community in total by their new YouTube Kids policies. Starting from January, 2020 all the channels that use toys to make their content will be moved from YouTube to their new YouTube Kids platform where will be no comments, no likes, no notifications and no personalized ads 🤐

It means we all will have to work for free (not completely for free, but there will be a drastic monetization drop and we will have to find a full time job to be able to pay our bills and it means there will be no time for dolls and video's) and there will be also no way for us to communicate with our audience, no feedback, no doll requests in the comments, no discussions, no support and we will not be able to know even if people liked the repaint, nothing. Just me sitting making dolls in a complete silence and getting a complete silence back. I don't even know how to react and what to think.

I understand they want to protect kids from disturbing content but the fact is that Jake Paul and Co will keep going, but for us the only way to stay on a normal YouTube is to start repainting garden furniture or to draw fruits and vegetables in their glory because remaking a toy will be punished with demonetization and removing comments and likes. And the most annoying part is that I have mostly a very adult audience (90% of my people are 18+), and kids are watching my repaints with their parents because let's be honest, my video's are not that entertaining for little kids (for YouTube kids are people younger than 13 yo), my video's and dolls are rather art for art lovers than kids content. But since me, Hextian, Dollightful, Moonlight Jewel, Anastazia Custom and many many other adult artist have chosen doing our art on 'kids toys' we will be punished, demonetized and locked down on a kids-only platform 👍👌

One of the sweetest and kids friendly channels on the entire YouTube - Myfroggystuff - have already changed their names and they are also changing their content completely to become not kids oriented anymore to be able to stay on a regular 'big' YouTube. I don't know, dear YouTube, I have a strong feeling that you are punishing wrong people and moving a completely wrong direction. We will know more later of course, there's no real information regarding doll customizers but their general message is quite clear - everything children and toys related will be put to the muted and almost demonetized YouTube Kids reservation

The irony is that 1) Youtube is actively discouraging channels from making child-friendly content with this new policy and 2) kids are going to stick around "real Youtube" because one of the main appeals of Youtube is reading comments, leaving comments, and hoping that a channel-creator you admire will reply to your comment.  And 3) they are demonetizing a lot of people who don't even have much of a child demographic.

Why don't they stop harvesting everyone's information and instead run ads like TV stations do?  TV stations might have a general idea of demographics who watch a show, but they don't track ten people's personal habits and beam out 10 different personalized commercials;  instead they just send out one commercial, which they hope will appeal to the general demographic.

Like, a Youtube video on gardening could have an ad for fertilizer.  On a Youtube video on woodworking you would get an advertisement for Home Depot or Lowe's.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: SpacePinto on September 08, 2019, 04:42:39 PM

I just hate how the whole Internet seems to be getting more patronizing and obsessed with protecting children at all cost :(

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Nemesis on September 08, 2019, 05:06:27 PM

Quote from: SpacePinto on September 08, 2019, 04:42:39 PM

I just hate how the whole Internet seems to be getting more patronizing and obsessed with protecting children at all cost :(

Unfortunately, it’s a “This is why we can’t have nice things.” situation.

There are people who put truly horrific, ugly, hateful content out there... Stuff that, quite frankly, NO ONE should make/see, IMHO. Kids end up seeing it. Aaand then the plug gets pulled on the entire platform.

I wish YT would simply implement a child-block option of some kind, or else work harder to monitor what’s posted. Phones/devices/computers in general need better child safety options. No kid should be given free rein to browse the internet unchecked...

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on September 08, 2019, 08:43:53 PM

Children like many of the same things adults like.  I don’t know how we can  protect them from getting into things they shouldn’t without using stronger parental controls.  Maybe content like comments shouldn’t be available without being signed in as a verified adult.  But limiting content kids might “watch” puts limits on everything.  Like paleontology?  Science experiments?  Space launches?  Fashion? Nail art?

YouTube’s new rules don’t sound very well thought out.  Maybe there should be an option box for kid safe content that goes through a more rigorous review for kids signed in as kids. 

It seems like the biggest limitation that all social media sites have is being able to review everything before going live.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: bright rabbit 1 on September 08, 2019, 11:24:29 PM

Doll customisers could always go to Daily Motion and put their videos on there.

It sickens me on what YouTube is doing to those people.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Ponyfan on September 09, 2019, 05:41:00 AM

Many years ago I was watching a YT video of the opening to Rescue at Midnight Castle. It was labeled only as My Little pony and right after Firefly and Medley fell in to the waterfall something really inappropriate popped up in the video. I was completely caught off guard by it. There should be way to stop people that are deliberately doing stuff like that vs punishing those that use toys in their videos to customize dolls in to different characters do unboxing reviews etc..


Ponyfan

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 09, 2019, 08:23:39 AM

Quote from: brightberry on September 08, 2019, 08:43:53 PM

Maybe content like comments shouldn’t be available without being signed in as a verified adult.

I was thinking this, too.

Honestly this all just seems like it's going to do more harm than good.

Quote from: SpacePinto on September 08, 2019, 04:42:39 PM

I just hate how the whole Internet seems to be getting more patronizing and obsessed with protecting children at all cost :(

Same here! I've noticed it a lot lately, not just with YouTube but *everywhere*. Makes me sad.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: LadyMoondancer on September 09, 2019, 09:39:58 AM

The current case is less about inappropriate content and more about inappropriate advertising and "influencers".  (Ugh, I hate that term and the whole idea behind it.)

Issues like:

1. People whose "reviews" are actually advertisements.  One of the examples was a toy reviewer who didn't disclose that toy companies were PAYING HIM to review their products.  Meaning it actually was less of a "review" and more of "WOW!  Buy this toy!  Someone paid me to say this, but you don't know that!"

2. Videos that did mention they were being paid to promote something, but they weren't saying it in a way that the target audience would be able to understand.  For example:  someone's target audience is preschoolers, and they put tiny text at the bottom of their video saying "This is a paid advertisment."  A preschooler can't read fine print, and may not be able to read at all.

3. Youtube illegally harvesting the information of minors and using it for targeted advertisements.

The thing is, Youtube's actions are not addressing a single one of these problems.  They just want to look like they're doing something.  IMO they should rely less on automatized processes--you know, like the ones that flag Youtube videos if a creator sings a single lyric of a song owned by a litigious company--and more on humans reviewing content.   A human being can understand nuances and decide "This video is okay, that video is not" much better than a machine.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: melodys_angel on September 09, 2019, 09:43:29 AM

I get the need for wanting to protect kids.  I would pull the 'but we all turned out fine' argument but when we were kids technology was not nearly like how it is today.   Now if we were talking about a parent going nuts because say, the little mermaid is too dark for kids..that would be valid to go after.  I just feel kids are TOO guarded now a days.  They are curious and theres no way one can permanently shield them. They will get stuff from music or from recess at school.

I don't know.  I just think that while its a good step to try to get the nasty stuff away from kids..this isn't the way to go about doing it..because they will get around it.

I think I agree with a parent block...a responsible parent will put a block on before their kids access things.  Its not perfect but its a start.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on September 09, 2019, 10:26:49 AM

Spoiler

I don't think I turned out ok so that's my piece on the technology and kids. Social media is just super unhealthy and I'm finally starting to combat the addictiveness by staying off of sites like Twitter which are all about likes and retweets and follows. Everything is mutuals mutuals mutuals and I don't like it. It just fed into my developing anxiety combo and has some residual stuff today. I've certainly done some stuff I regret but I do fear for the kids who are developing with social media at the ready who may not have the sense to do things under an anonymous name. A bit off topic but boy am I glad I never attached my irl name to my old internet expenditures, I can't imagine navigating the net now with everything able to be dug up at a moment's notice.

I can understand wanting to reign in the toy review community. So much of it is PR opening and I'm not sure who I can really trust (I do trust GreatBigToyBox but she seems to be the exception). There's a difference between CookieSwirlC and GreatBigToyBox, too. If this dominos into causing blind boxes to stop being so prevalent I'll consider it to be one good thing coming out of it.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Galactica on September 09, 2019, 10:33:45 AM

Well I'm glad they are doing SOMETHING.  Probably they will need to make modifications as time goes by.

I'm less worried about data collection than I am worried about a kid watching what looks like Peppa Pig and having it switch into something horrible halfway in that gives the kid PTSD.  Why would people do such terrible things to small children? That I cannot understand.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 09, 2019, 01:26:27 PM

tailrustedtealeaf - I absolutely agree that social media was a mistake x) Especially the awful trend of just putting EVERYTHING online, often under your real name! I swear, some of the stuff I've seen people plaster all over their Tumblrs, it's shocking/terrifying.

Moving back onto YouTube though (because otherwise I'll rant for ages :P), I wonder if it would be feasible for them to do something like...

Any time a video is uploaded, you have to select whether or not it's aimed towards kids, yes or no
if you click "no" - video goes up as normal
if you click "yes" - video is held and reviewed to see whether or not it's appropriate

I definitely agree that they need the "human touch" here instead of relying on machines.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Nemesis on September 09, 2019, 09:14:45 PM

Quote from: Galactica on September 09, 2019, 10:33:45 AM

Well I'm glad they are doing SOMETHING.  Probably they will need to make modifications as time goes by.

I'm less worried about data collection than I am worried about a kid watching what looks like Peppa Pig and having it switch into something horrible halfway in that gives the kid PTSD.  Why would people do such terrible things to small children? That I cannot understand.

Because there are extremely sick people out there (as any “comments” section can attest to). :( My personal opinion is that Youtube needs to rely less on algorithms and more on actual, human moderators who have the power to delete videos and ban accounts that post offensive content. ALL social media and content sharing websites need more of that IMO.

Quote from: Carrehz on September 09, 2019, 01:26:27 PM

tailrustedtealeaf - I absolutely agree that social media was a mistake x) Especially the awful trend of just putting EVERYTHING online, often under your real name! I swear, some of the stuff I've seen people plaster all over their Tumblrs, it's shocking/terrifying.

Agree 1000%. Social media is one of humankind’s most horrifying creations. :P

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Zapper on September 10, 2019, 05:00:59 AM

Ok call me naive but I don't believe youtube will just move all doll customizers. They want to keep people who bring in ad revenue, they are a soul sucking mega corp, come on.
People need to let youtube know what's up instead of creating panic in their fanbase. While I feel bad for the toy channels I also chuckle at some of these people complaining that "we will have to get fulltjme jobs now" - oh rly? I thought youtube IS a fulltime job? :cool:
Anyways, I just believe this dish isn't gonna get served scalding hot. It needs to cool down, youtube needs to do something aboug the freaks making these cut videos and change their algorithm (I don't have a yt account and have no clue how much data they gain from me but I find it disturbing when I watch a Breyer review with cleared browser history and the recommended videos show an angry nerd complaining about Captain Marvel, some chick binge-eating and some sponsored video of some of these yt famous dolts) :lookround:

Quote from: tailrustedtealeaf on September 09, 2019, 10:26:49 AM

I can understand wanting to reign in the toy review community. So much of it is PR opening and I'm not sure who I can really trust (I do trust GreatBigToyBox but she seems to be the exception). There's a difference between CookieSwirlC and GreatBigToyBox, too. If this dominos into causing blind boxes to stop being so prevalent I'll consider it to be one good thing coming out of it.

Agreed and might I just add that I am greatful for namedropping GBTB? I started watching her slime review videos and it's a delight how honest she is and how she openly tells people not to buy certain things. It's intresting how she still gets sponsored sometimes. These companies must be sure of their product if they give it to someone who might say "this is a waste of money" :lol:

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: bright rabbit 1 on September 10, 2019, 06:29:05 AM

Someone did a petition about this, I can’t find the link for said petition. Looks like I’ll have to link the video.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: LadyMoondancer on September 25, 2019, 11:36:15 AM

So I was watching a crafting Youtuber talk about what her contact at Youtube had communicated to her.  (I think Youtube offers Youtubers a "liaison" if they hit certain follower goals . . . Could be wrong but that's my impression.)  And the person working at Youtube said that one of the thing "machine learning" would look for, that could get a video flagged, was . . . toys in the background. 

Like even if someone is discussing Shakespeare, if they have a collection of Pikachu plushes on their bedroom shelf, bam, demonetized.

I don't get why Youtube doesn't hire more real human beings, they are owned by Google so they could certainly afford it.

Also "game walkthroughs" will be demonetized, which is just . . . ???  I associate games with teens to 30-somethings more than kids.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on September 25, 2019, 01:39:13 PM

I agree that any kid saying that they're "10" should be marked as a child and prevented from commenting in the future.  Or maybe just by their own viewing patterns, get marked as a child and prevented from commenting.

And kids under 13 can have google accounts as their schools might be using something like "google classroom."  As soon that kid also opens youtube, they should know that they are potentially dealing with a child.


I think the real problem is, kids are going to be watching no matter what the content is as long as it's entertaining.  It's not like there is an actual boundary between what kids like and what adults like.  As a kid, I watched a lot of MASH, violent Cowboy Movies and so on.  Because it was on.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on September 25, 2019, 02:16:11 PM

ugh, that's awful, LadyM! I mean what the heck, how's it going to recognize what is/isn't a toy? Are people going to get flagged as "kids content" for having... I dunno, sexy anime figures or something? @_@;

Quote from: brightberry on September 25, 2019, 01:39:13 PM

I think the real problem is, kids are going to be watching no matter what the content is as long as it's entertaining.  It's not like there is an actual boundary between what kids like and what adults like.  As a kid, I watched a lot of MASH, violent Cowboy Movies and so on.  Because it was on.

See, this is a great point, and it's one that goes both ways. Kids can like "adult" stuff and adults can like "kid" stuff. This whole thing is just a mess...

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 10, 2019, 06:03:40 AM

I really don't like the comments disabled thing - as it stands I don't get much comments on my channel (but that's likely because I'm not really known as a YouTuber yet), but I want to be able to get them, because then I feel like I really am being watched by people, 'cause they can comment on something specific to the video in different ways, so I feel I'm interacting with my audience.

I haven't started them yet, but the main thing on my channel is going to be Animation Reviews - I don't know if these will be targeted, but they likely will, as a lot of animation is indeed for kids (reviews of animations not for kids will be Age Restricted by me.)  I also currently do Let's Plays (well, I've started one) and while they aren't the same thing as Walkthroughs really, I doubt the system will care about the difference.

I don't see why any of these have to be demonetized - it's not the kids themselves who are paying to watch the videos, and actual kid's channels on television have adverts on them.  Or by "personalized ads" do they just mean adverts that the YouTuber chooses to put on them?

I need to properly read through what else this will do, but I hope they come up with a better way to do it.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 10, 2019, 06:09:26 AM

Quote from: MJNSEIFER on November 10, 2019, 06:03:40 AM

I don't see why any of these have to be demonetized - it's not the kids themselves who are paying to watch the videos, and actual kid's channels on television have adverts on them.  Or by "personalized ads" do they just mean adverts that the YouTuber chooses to put on them?

Well, it's not quite just flat demonitezation, the personalized ads pay much more than those that aren't.
Kids channels do not keep an individual profile of each kid watching their content, is the issue.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: bright rabbit 1 on November 12, 2019, 02:47:13 PM

I think YouTube should check what they putting aimed at kids.

The YouTube Hextian did a doll custom video of a drag queen and YouTube has marked it as kid friendly and removed the comments.

This has made me crack up  :lmao:

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: lonewolf on November 14, 2019, 07:40:15 AM

Another bad thing is not being able to add those videos to playlists. I like being able to watch pony videos/songs nonstop. My playlists are intact for now so I'm making favorites folders for all of the videos on my browser.
 I noticed on one of my 2 channels my few videos that involve FiM clips have already been decided on (they are in fact safe), but I hate the idea of people not being able to comment on them (though the comments are still up on them)/ add to playlist.

Really anymore I just want Youtube to die. It's outlived it's usefulness. It's slowly turning into one big pile of junk.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Zapper on November 14, 2019, 08:25:23 AM

Quote from: lonewolf on November 14, 2019, 07:40:15 AM

Really anymore I just want Youtube to die. It's outlived it's usefulness. It's slowly turning into one big pile of junk.

It already became a big pile of junk when people who scream slurs into a mic while playing a video game became top earners, making big bucks by doing essentially nothing of value.
A recent thing I found out about are vids were women just eat large amounts of food for the pleasure of men and then purge it all when the cams are off to stay thin.
Why is this "entertainment" and why is stuff like this not demonetized? Youtube would need a lot more regulation and actual moderators. But the goal is to make more and more money so commercials can run on any channel that gains a few hundred followers.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Nemesis on November 14, 2019, 09:24:37 AM

Quote from: Zapper on November 14, 2019, 08:25:23 AM

A recent thing I found out about are vids were women just eat large amounts of food for the pleasure of men and then purge it all when the cams are off to stay thin.

Umm... What...? Why...? Do I even want to know? >_<;

But honestly, what Youtube needs is a massive network of HUMAN moderators who watch and filter content. They always HAVE needed that, but now more than ever... Uggh.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 14, 2019, 03:43:56 PM

Quote from: tailrustedtealeaf on November 10, 2019, 06:09:26 AM

Quote from: MJNSEIFER on November 10, 2019, 06:03:40 AM

I don't see why any of these have to be demonetized - it's not the kids themselves who are paying to watch the videos, and actual kid's channels on television have adverts on them.  Or by "personalized ads" do they just mean adverts that the YouTuber chooses to put on them?

Well, it's not quite just flat demonitezation, the personalized ads pay much more than those that aren't.
Kids channels do not keep an individual profile of each kid watching their content, is the issue.

Thanks for explaining.

Okay, this is becoming more official, because I have been told on my channel that I will need to say if my videos are for kids, but I'm at a crossroads as to what to do.

My videos are not aimed at kids, but kids would be okay to watch them.  Kids could be seen as the second audience, but that means I have to say they're for kids too.

My main show will be an Animation Review show, and many animations are for kids, even though we all know adults also watch them (reviews of animations for adults will be age restricted by me.)  Because of this, the videos may be recognised as being for kids anyway.

I don't want to label my videos as being aimed at kids, because I'll lose comments, and I want to have comments on my videos.  But I don't know if I can say they aren't aimed at kids, when they might look like they are...

I really hope this is sorted out, because I love YouTube (and I know this isn't their fault), and I get it's not perfect as it relies on bots too much, but it's been a good site for me this decade... I want to be "part" of the YouTuber community, and finally got a chance to get really close this year...

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Taffeta on November 15, 2019, 05:34:45 AM

Read through most of this thread, and agree with a lot of the higlighted problems along with the need for something to be done to keep kids safe.

It kind of horrifies me a little bit seeing how unguarded kids are online sometimes. I don't use a lot of social media platforms and I refuse to see YT in its base form as one - but it has become one because of the rise of vlogging and influencers. And I genuinely don't understand a lot of the reasons influencer videos get watched but people are strange to me...

People saying their real name, age...even location on websites when they're really young is so risky. I guess that's the one reason about comments being disabled. But on the other hand kids will always look to do what the adults are doing, so you'd think moderated comments on videos containing kids content would be a better idea...like certain watch words filtered out (curse words, racially or sexually questionable words, etc, including various potential ways of misspelling them to get around the filters)...I dunno.

Just something to actually make the kids safe in the existing space, rather than lock them away.

Also, I wonder how anime will work in this. Anime is not kids stuff. Then again, some of it is. Pokemon might be seen as kid's stuff. Will Attack on Titan be as well then? It's such a grey area that requires knowledge of the series in question and also what kind of media is being made about it. (I think of the horrible explicit g4 pony images that were spammed all over a forum I moderated once as a good example of something child-friendly made unfriendly by idiots and then spammed in a public place)

It's just more complicated than just 'here's a rule, we've solved it'.

As for hostile comments, the damage done by trolls on all platforms on people's mental health overall is another problem, and not uniquely associated to kids.

Which brings me to my final point. Where are they drawing the 'kid' line? 10? 12? 15? younger? 18?

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 15, 2019, 06:17:38 AM

On the "no longer using anonymous names" point, I think my age and a few years younger are the last to use the fake names. That's not even true of people my age, though, I saw so many people use their full first and last names as Instagram handles in high school! I can only imagine all the flack kids now get by posting under their name instead of an anonymous handle.
I think the "kid" line is drawn at 13, because that's the age where you no longer need parents permission to participate in sites such as forums, etc. It's an information collection issue.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 15, 2019, 01:19:12 PM

I've been shown a petition to FTC about this.
https://www.change.org/p/youtubers-and-viewers-unite-against-ftc-regulation

I really hope that I can count on at least some of you to sign - things have been saved this way before, and it's a lot better than just sitting around saying it won't work.  YouTube means a lot to not just me, but to many people, and while it's still flawed, it can and should be better than what it may become if this isn't stopped.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on November 16, 2019, 06:42:34 AM

yeah, it really concerns me how many folks these days just plaster their real name, age, location... all sorts of identifying info, online. It's not safe, damn it! I'm not saying "never give any info out ever", but the things some people put on their public blogs for all and sundry to see... I blame social media for the cavalier attitude some peeps have about this sort of stuff.

Taffeta - yeah, the anime thing is my main concern, here. The thing is that, like you said, a lot of them are in a grey area where they're not inappropriate for kids, but they're not exactly intended for them, either? Or they're intended for kids/youngsters but have stuff that wouldn't fly in western kids' shows - I'm thinking stuff like Ojamajo Doremi - it's for kids, but it deals with some more mature themes as the girls grow up. How do you classify something like that? @_@; It's all a mess.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 16, 2019, 07:32:38 AM

I don't think the petition is the best way to go about this. There's a lot of grey area, very tricky to deal with.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: lonewolf on November 16, 2019, 12:35:55 PM

I got to thinking: The FTC is going to be deciding what is and isn't kid friendly, and pretty much punishing people for what they make.

Could this be considered violating the 1st amendment?

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 16, 2019, 01:18:50 PM

Quote from: lonewolf on November 16, 2019, 12:35:55 PM

I got to thinking: The FTC is going to be deciding what is and isn't kid friendly, and pretty much punishing people for what they make.

Could this be considered violating the 1st amendment?

Unless I'm missing something, Youtube is deciding what is and is not kid friendly. The FTC just punished them for collection of data. So no. 

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: lonewolf on November 16, 2019, 02:02:49 PM

Quote from: tailrustedtealeaf on November 16, 2019, 01:18:50 PM

Quote from: lonewolf on November 16, 2019, 12:35:55 PM

I got to thinking: The FTC is going to be deciding what is and isn't kid friendly, and pretty much punishing people for what they make.

Could this be considered violating the 1st amendment?

Unless I'm missing something, Youtube is deciding what is and is not kid friendly. The FTC just punished them for collection of data. So no.

No. The FTC, aka government is going to go through people's videos, determine what is and isn't kid friendly, and punish people for what they make. This could very well violate the 1st amendment rights of Youtube, and creators, because it's government doing what could be considered silencing people's freedom of speech.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on November 17, 2019, 05:14:11 PM

Heh, I'm sceptical of all internet petitions, personally.

I just checked my account; it's interesting to see what they did/didn't mark as "made for kids". A handful of my Doremi vids were marked (interestingly enough, they seem to have specifically targeted the opening/ending themes for the final season) but not the vast majority of them, which raises even more questions about how their computers/robots/whatever determine what's "made for kids". Hmmm.

I checked their FAQ and it says if they think you've marked your video incorrectly, they can change it. Which makes sense for stuff that's inappropriate for kids but has been marked as "made for kids", but doesn't... really make sense the other way around? I mean, if someone marks their kid-friendly video as "NOT made for kids" then what's the harm there? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding it.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on November 17, 2019, 06:06:10 PM

There is definitely a difference between “kid safe” and “made for kids”.   YouTube should acknowledge that.  And as I said before, kids and adults frequently like the same things.  Anime, Marvel Movies, My Little Pony, Disney Animation, craft videos, box openings and so on.  I foresee the entire project being far too random to do what they intend it to do.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 18, 2019, 03:28:42 AM

Something needs to be done, and the petition is the best we've got so far.  I get that there may be grey areas, but the FTC are making it greyer by how vague their system is (or YouTube are if they chose the system.)

One or both of them needs to see that if they have to be stricter on this, they have to do it another way - like make it harder to log in to YouTube if your underage (like go through a lot of stuff to prove your age each time you log in - annoying yes, but better than this.)

It wouldn't be that bad if the only penalty for marking your videos "incorrectly" was that the system changes it to "for kids" and takes away the things it would have taken away if you had marked it as "for kids" yourself (monetization, comments, etc.), which would be bad, but safe as you could simply refute the claim if you chose to.  The system they are going to use will actually fine us if we get it "wrong", which is scarily unfair, especially as the idea of what is made for kids is vague...

Quote from: brightberry on November 17, 2019, 06:06:10 PM

There is definitely a difference between “kid safe” and “made for kids”.   YouTube should acknowledge that.  And as I said before, kids and adults frequently like the same things.  Anime, Marvel Movies, My Little Pony, Disney Animation, craft videos, box openings and so on.  I foresee the entire project being far too random to do what they intend it to do.

...for pretty much this reason.  Not to mention that some YouTubers would do a video about something that is for kids (like, for example review a kid's show), but their video is not for kids, due to how the YouTuber acts (like they may swear), but the system will simply see it's a kid's show being talked about and "think" the video is for kids.

So yeah, something needs to be done, and I really hope it is.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on November 18, 2019, 07:03:44 AM

I think if it was up to me, I would've just made it so you can specify if it's appropriate for kids or not (so we don't have to split hairs over the "intended for kids" vs "kid safe, but not necessarily meant for them" thing), and the comments just don't show up if you're on a "kid" account. Or something. That probably wouldn't be a *perfect* solution, but like we've been discussing, there's just too many grey areas for the system they've proposed to really work. :/

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: bright rabbit 1 on November 18, 2019, 07:48:32 AM

One of my favourite doll customisers has left YouTube with all of this going on. I wouldn’t be surprised if more channels leave YouTube.

Looks like I’m going to follow some of my favourite customisers and family vlogs on Patreon.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 18, 2019, 01:23:57 PM

Does anyone know if you can get fined if you label a video as for kids, and the system decides it isn't?  I know that if I do the reverse, I could get fined, and this will be a big risk to me, as I will be reviewing cartoons, many of which are aimed at kids, but if I label the video as for kids and it disagrees, is that a fine too?

It would be... tolerable if not; I would lose comments and it would be even harder to be found on YouTube, but that would be better than being fined.  I'd be able to put up with it, until things get sorted out if that's the case.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on November 18, 2019, 04:58:26 PM

Wait wait wait, hold the phone. You get fined if you list a video as "not for kids" and YouTube disagrees with you? Seriously? What the hell! Where does it say that?

The reverse, I can see that making sense, but... who the hell does it hurt if you list a "kid-friendly" video as "adults only"?????

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on November 18, 2019, 07:20:39 PM

Quote from: Carrehz on November 18, 2019, 04:58:26 PM

Wait wait wait, hold the phone. You get fined if you list a video as "not for kids" and YouTube disagrees with you? Seriously? What the hell! Where does it say that?

The reverse, I can see that making sense, but... who the hell does it hurt if you list a "kid-friendly" video as "adults only"?????

A YouTube channel I watch put out a video explaining some things about this and how scarily vague it all is. And yes creators can get fined if they mark their video as not being for kids and the FTC (not YouTube) disagrees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0veLrwd9CK4

He plays a couple clips from an FTC conference about it, right in the clip played at the very start of the video, the guy talking in the conference says "not only can we sue Google and YouTube for compliance with COPPA, but also individual channel owners and content creators". A later clip shown in the video: "Content creators are always at risk of being fined, and channel owners, because there we have a situation where a website or an online service that is directed to children". Lol @ implying YouTube is directed to children. This fine in question can be up to $42,000. This is going to kill YouTube, or at least almost kill it.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: otocolobus_manul on November 18, 2019, 07:34:46 PM

I don't mean to whine but oh my God can life please wait until I'm done with college to kick all my coping mechanisms out from under me

I agree with everything LadyMoondancer has said, but especially this:

Quote from: LadyMoondancer on September 08, 2019, 12:21:58 PM

The irony is that 1) Youtube is actively discouraging channels from making child-friendly content with this new policy and 2) kids are going to stick around "real Youtube" because one of the main appeals of Youtube is reading comments, leaving comments, and hoping that a channel-creator you admire will reply to your comment.  And 3) they are demonetizing a lot of people who don't even have much of a child demographic.

Especially point number 2. I know that when I was a kid I stayed away anything I viewed as "for kids" (at least, kids younger than me, Webkinz was an exception because the older kids were playing it lol). If YouTube marks something as for kids, plenty of kids are going to specifically avoid it for that reason, and are going to find ways to access the adult content no matter what. If anything, this is driving kids away from kid-friendly content because now it's explicitly marked as kid-friendly or not kid-friendly, and kids are going to automatically scroll past kid-friendly videos and zero-in on the adult ones.

Or maybe I was just a weird kid. I dunno. All I know is that if there is a solution to this problem, this isn't it.

And concerning point number 3, I've already seen people who are scared they're going to lose their jobs because of this. What a mess. What an absolute mess.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on November 18, 2019, 07:40:32 PM

I’m pretty sure THAT will backfire on the FTC.  Being able to randomly designate something as directed at kids and then fine them is a violation of free speech.  I would think that they’d have to prove intent to win in court.  Though, it could take years and a lot of money to win.   :(

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Strawberry Swirl on November 18, 2019, 08:03:07 PM

I find Chadtronic’s video concerning this law to be very informative. In addition. I’m concerned about the numerous content creators that are like us in that their content is appreciative of things that these people are ignorantly labeling kids only. I understand before I stated that I think a platform for kids specifically made so that they can more easily find things for them and avoid inappropriate content is a good thing. And I still agree with it.

However it is not only unhelpful to force everybody who makes videos concerning cartoons, toy collecting, animation or anything else they are insisting are automatically kid friendly to label them as For Kids, it is hurtful as many times these things are the careers of the creators. Demonetizing these videos and fining the creators for not adhering to such a ridiculous viewpoint may very well force them to change to mature content only or leave the platform all together.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 18, 2019, 08:04:10 PM

Oh, this is a lot more messy than I first thought. Ugh, what on earth? Everything is so ambiguous.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: caseysealia on November 18, 2019, 08:17:18 PM

Why doesn't someone just make a platform solely for kid's content? So you don't mix adults and kids and make a mess like this. Of course that would have its own issues but it'd be easier to confirm what content is for kids vs. adult content.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 19, 2019, 02:14:32 PM

Okay... this seems almost too good to be true now, but I had a conversation with someone on twitter, who showed me a video and it turns out that we may not be in as much danger of being fined as we thought.

Basically, if we place a disclaimer like one shown in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-1xHglORp0) (which also explains the COPPA situation more), we should be okay.  Apparently, they are going after videos that are purposely trying to target kids (or fool kids into thinking the videos are for them), so if you place an appropriate disclaimer at the start of your video, you should be okay - your content will apparently do the rest.  Basically if we do this we should be safe

I honestly never expected to be reassured by a hater of my favorite generation, but a silver lining can come from literally anywhere!   :whoa:

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: SunbeamV on November 19, 2019, 08:56:16 PM

why don't we just all start our toy reviews by taking a swig of hard liquor and shouting a string of expletives as protest? i know it seems silly but i feel like if hundreds or thousands of videos had to go to review or appeal stages because of it, they'd change their tune pretty fast because the amount of work would probably make them lose profits, and we all know corporations only speak money  :lol:

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on November 19, 2019, 09:11:05 PM

Quote from: MJNSEIFER on November 19, 2019, 02:14:32 PM

Okay... this seems almost too good to be true now, but I had a conversation with someone on twitter, who showed me a video and it turns out that we may not be in as much danger of being fined as we thought.

Basically, if we place a disclaimer like one shown in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-1xHglORp0) (which also explains the COPPA situation more), we should be okay.  Apparently, they are going after videos that are purposely trying to target kids (or fool kids into thinking the videos are for them), so if you place an appropriate disclaimer at the start of your video, you should be okay - your content will apparently do the rest.  Basically if we do this we should be safe

I honestly never expected to be reassured by a hater of my favorite generation, but a silver lining can come from literally anywhere!   :whoa:

Maybe the disclaimer will work.  But it seems like an easy way for someone to target kids and make the appearance of not being for kids.  It’s not like many kids under 13 are going to read it and leave.  I’m the FTC could make that argument. 

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: bright rabbit 1 on November 19, 2019, 10:24:46 PM

Well COPPA and FTC would be in trouble if they say and put on Attack on Titan videos for example anime and video games; aimed at kids because let’s face it in Season 1 and 2 of the anime you got Titan’s eating humans, and a lot of people with limbs or parts of the body bitten off (Eren in Season 1 and Ymir in Season 2). In Season 3 part one you had humans killing humans, and in the second part of said season you had more deaths, blood, and gore, not to mention someone eating another person. Same goes with the games. Anime is rated 15 (should be18), and the games are rated 18; definitely not for kids.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on November 20, 2019, 07:39:09 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwDrHOe43E

Another video on the topic, this one by an actual lawyer.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: SaraMari on November 20, 2019, 09:20:23 AM

what I am getting from this is YouTube doesn't want to take responsibility for going against the law, I mean coppa  has been around for awhile, and wants to put the onus on the creators

There are differences between for kids, kid friendly and family friendly. So having this either or scenario is not going to work.

There are millions of videos that are family and kid friendly but not for kids. YouTube needs to take some responsibility, change their methods of ad delivery, and create better categorization.

Edit
theBeatlespkmnfan42 thanks for sharing that video. It really explained the situation well and shared info that a lot of people don't know about when it comes to the changes YouTube is making. Just as I thought YouTube threw it's creators under the bus during the settlement.

As the lawyer recommends if you are making for kid content your channel is basically done. They are removing notifications, ending cards, community tabs, the ability to save the videos to watch later lists etc. They might have some general ads but it won't earn enough to live off of it sounds like.

And there are 10 factors the FTC will use to determine if your videos are for kids and they are amazing vague and generic like "music in the background". A lot of people are going to get their videos marked as for kids that aren't really aimed at kids

I guess basically Youtube just wants to make YouTube an obviously adult orientated app, but theres a lot of adult orientated videos that can appeal to kids and are safe for kids. Realistically at this point if you have any videos that are vaguely kid friendly (family activities, kawaii, nerdy, crafting, etc) you'll have some big changes. like if you have colorful or cute title cards you better make them darker and more generic, take out background music, change your set or backdrop to be more dark, office like or Spartan etc

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Carrehz on November 20, 2019, 04:06:51 PM

Can someone give me a tl;dr rundown on the fine thing, please? I tried watching the videos but all the lawyerspeak is kind of flying over my head ^^; Admittedly I am pretty tired right now, which probably doesn't help.

I'm still completely baffled by the notion of them fining people for marking their video as "for adults". Who does that hurt?? If it was just "if you mark this as 'for kids' and it's inappropriate, we'll go after you", I could understand it, that's fair enough (well, I suppose), but... geez. This is such a mess.

And good point SaraMari, COPPA isn't anything new - quite the opposite, in fact! It existed before YouTube, for crying out loud. What on earth are YouTube playing at...

Man, I'm not even a content creator, I just upload obscure out-of-print anime music sometimes, so folks can enjoy them without having to track down a ~20 y/o CD for one or two tracks, and I'd like it if people at least have the option to say "hey, thanks!"! Is that so wrong! Argh.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Aflame on November 22, 2019, 07:30:52 AM

nerd-e-crafter is annoyed because even if you have "characters" in the back ground of your video it can be flagged as "child appealing" and I dont know about any one else but I find it quite offensive as being  considered a child when I am not !
nerd-e-crafers video on it
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49DpBpVSEYc&t=871s )

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 22, 2019, 07:36:56 AM

So, the one more appropriate video I made is not flagged, but the one which includes a cartoon character going "F=== you Baltimore!" is kid appropriate?  :what:

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on November 22, 2019, 10:52:27 AM

Quote from: Carrehz on November 20, 2019, 04:06:51 PM

Can someone give me a tl;dr rundown on the fine thing, please? I tried watching the videos but all the lawyerspeak is kind of flying over my head ^^; Admittedly I am pretty tired right now, which probably doesn't help.

I can try!

COPPA isn't about making content safe for children.  COPPA is about collecting data on children.  If a website captures any data belonging to a child, it is breaking COPPA law.  Even if the data capture was unintentional.

Youtube captures user data.  They have no way to filter out children.  They paid a fine but instead of fixing things on their end, they made content developers responsible for the children's data they may inadvertently capture.

So if your video has anything on it that may get a child's attention and their data gets captured by Youtube, you're the one who has to pay the fine.

So anime, toys, arts & crafts, cartoons, My Little Pony, Marvel, DC or anything that looks fun could become a target for the FTC fine.  So don't be fun.  It doesn't matter if you curse because that's fun.  It doesn't matter if there is violence or sex, if it looks like fun... you're in trouble.

I think, in the end, this will end up in the courts.  The implementation is just too vague.  But before that, the FTC is going to fine a whole lot of people.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: The_Loner on November 26, 2019, 06:28:02 AM

Everyone should check out this video:
https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54 (https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54)

The FTC acknowledges general audience content and never intended what YouTube is forcing on their creators right now! YouTube has really thrown all their creators under the bus big time just so they could save money! :mad:

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: MJNSEIFER on November 26, 2019, 07:48:25 AM

Quote from: The_Loner on November 26, 2019, 06:28:02 AM

Everyone should check out this video:
https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54 (https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54)

The FTC acknowledges general audience content and never intended what YouTube is forcing on their creators right now! YouTube has really thrown all their creators under the bus big time just so they could save money! :mad:

Hopefully this will get resolved in someway (and hopefully, despite this being a bad thing that they did, I hope that YouTube recovers from this - the site itself still means a lot to me.)

There has been more hope and positivity in the whole thing in places, so hopefully a compromise is at least reached (like a general audience option - it's good that the FTC know it exists.)

Also, some (if not all) of the "what counts as just for kids" is dated, so hopefully this will be acknowledged, which it probably will be if they know about general audiences.  Sorry if any of this was mentioned in the video, I haven't watched it yet.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: Zapper on November 26, 2019, 09:07:31 AM

Quote from: The_Loner on November 26, 2019, 06:28:02 AM

Everyone should check out this video:
https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54 (https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54)

The FTC acknowledges general audience content and never intended what YouTube is forcing on their creators right now! YouTube has really thrown all their creators under the bus big time just so they could save money! :mad:

That's typical of youtube, tho.

It's time to realize that youtube does not give a crap what kind of content is created as long as it's profitable to them.
Abiding by certain rules always gets flipped onto the content creators so they make a big stink. But instead of going against youtube they go against what caused youtube to lash out. They have to protect youtube as it is their source of income/fame.

If big name creators would leave youtube and make their own platform, THAT would force youtube to be more userfriendly. But the dummies won't as it is easier to lick youtube's boots than to try and be their competition.

In Germany we've had youtube creators and consumers in a state of mass panic because of an article that was part of a new European plan to protect copyrights.
There was/is so much false information regarding this new law and its articles that people went into the streets to mass protest.
All because youtube was like "well, we won't be made responsible if our content creazors break the law. We profit off of that but who cares? Better fight the copyright law or else we'll just delete your accs, lol!" and instead of fighting youtube all these dummies started fighting the lawmakers. Even went so far as to threaten death to one politician's children and spreafing all sorts of lies that Germany was gonna become a dictatorship again and that the law was a way to prevent free speech (btw, another article in that new law states that criticism and free speech must be protected but of course that's the parts nobody read).
And all just because youtube = $€¥£

Stand up against your employer or go to another outlet. Youtube is a huge corporation, they do not deserve being defended. Without their content creators they wouldn't make money. So stop creating content for them. Don't give them your human resorces. Demonetize COPPA info videos because youtube is making money from that, too. They always let their own content creators work for them and figure things out and share information because the more monetized vids you make the more money flows into the youtube pocket.

Capitalism is a sham :P
Expecting socialist behaviour from a greedy company is naive.

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on November 26, 2019, 09:40:27 AM

Quote from: The_Loner on November 26, 2019, 06:28:02 AM

Everyone should check out this video:
https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54 (https://youtu.be/pwnvjuCTb54)

The FTC acknowledges general audience content and never intended what YouTube is forcing on their creators right now! YouTube has really thrown all their creators under the bus big time just so they could save money! :mad:

So basically, it could all be resolved if you had to login to get your information collected and stored.  Kind of like MLParena does.

Of course, everyone (including creators) would make more money if we had to login to see the videos as well.  But that would destroy all the video sharing we do by copy/pasting links and people might stop using Youtube because of it and cost both YouTube and creators money.

I can see why the law is putting everyone in a tight spot. 

This latest video is bizarre?  He got contacted by a stranger who says he knows the truth and is close to powerful people and this lawyer just... believed him?

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: The_Loner on November 26, 2019, 10:30:04 AM

I just found this article the FTC has released that can be very helpful to YouTube channel owners:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2019/11/youtube-channel-owners-your-content-directed-children?utm_source=govdelivery

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on November 26, 2019, 12:10:49 PM

The article and video are very helpful!

Title: Re: New Youtube Rules for Kids' Content
Post by: brightberry on November 27, 2019, 09:27:03 AM

Even though they do seem to be more understanding, it seems to me that FTC is still basically saying "you won't know if you've broken the law until we say so".  The law itself is just too vague.