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I think it's great that by arena standards people are expected to treat all transactions with the same vigilance, and I know our wonderful trader support mods are dedicated to trying to find solutions to all problem transactions However, since arena rules and suggestions can't be enforced the same way paypal rules can, I'm not willing to take those chances. I think a lot of other buyers and sellers are in the same boat. We'd like to think we can trust all of our fellow arena members, but numerous trader support threads prove that it's not the case. I like the level of protection paypal gives. As a buyer I won't buy from anyone who tries to force me to give up that protection, and as a seller I'm more than happy to pay the fees that give me that security.
I think the big issue is the word REQUIREI personally don't REQUIRE it, but can offer the option. I haven't actually run into anyone who requires a gift payment, but I have run into some people who REQUIRE you paying the Paypal fees. I don't do that. Just put the option out there that a gift is always helpful to me, versus a goods, but I don't mind which method they pay me!
I don't know, I didn't mean to start a fuss---I really did try to do a search and came up with very little as far as what was considered correct selling etiquette with gift options/paypal fees. At least it's sort of clarified for me
Quote from: BarbedDragon on October 01, 2013, 08:03:21 AMI don't know, I didn't mean to start a fuss---I really did try to do a search and came up with very little as far as what was considered correct selling etiquette with gift options/paypal fees. At least it's sort of clarified for me Oh I don't think you started a fuss. Actually, I think this is a great thread, and an important topic. (Obviously, as there are so many different opinions on the subject).As mentioned earlier, threads like this have been hashed and rehashed over the years. BUT, there are always new arena members who want to buy or sell, and this thread may be the first time this information is presented to them.Personally, I've been buying and selling ponies online for over 15 years but I've only been on the arena since last summer and I've found this thread helpful.My opinion on the subject: Buyers and sellers can do what they want. Follow paypal rules, don't follow paypal rules, build fees into your prices or not, charge a handling fee, whatever you like. BUT, there may (or may not) be consequences to your buying/selling practices... (i.e. loss of buyer protection if you pay as a gift, etc.)I recently decided not to complete a transaction on the arena because AFTER pming back and forth for details on the items and AFTER requesting my total with shipping I was asked to send payment as a gift, but if I did not, I was required to pay the paypal fees to complete the transaction. In the initial sales thread it was stated that the seller 'preferred' payments to be sent as a gift. It was NEVER stated that I would have to pay the fees if I opted to retain my buyer protection. That is NOT ok with me. I didn't appreciate the seller not being upfront from the start. If they want to charge paypal fees, fine. But say it outright from the beginning, BEFORE we're three pm's into a transaction. That is just NOT ok with me. But, it may be ok with someone else. That's fine. Someone else can buy the ponies. On a happier note, I was thankfully able to trade for the ponies I wanted with another local collector
I hope this isn't straying too far off topic, but I have another question/thought about the "who pays the fees" issue:Would it be justified to include that information in the feedback we leave? For example "good communication, fast shipping, nice pony, but the seller required I pay the fees/send as gift & did not mention this at the beginning of the sale"I've often wanted to leave that sort of feedback, but thus far I have not because I know even the slightest negative comment in an otherwise positive feedback can send people into full retaliation mode. So often I see people saying they agreed to pay the fees because a buyer has a lot of good feedback. A lot of times I think that a high number of feedback just means that person has had a lot of transactions. How many times do we leave good feedback when we aren't 100% happy? If I saw comments in feedback that the seller repeatedly tried to sneak fees in on buyers, I would be a lot less likely to buy from them no matter what their total feedback score was.
Quote from: kitkatvintage on October 01, 2013, 12:16:13 PMI hope this isn't straying too far off topic, but I have another question/thought about the "who pays the fees" issue:Would it be justified to include that information in the feedback we leave? For example "good communication, fast shipping, nice pony, but the seller required I pay the fees/send as gift & did not mention this at the beginning of the sale"I've often wanted to leave that sort of feedback, but thus far I have not because I know even the slightest negative comment in an otherwise positive feedback can send people into full retaliation mode. So often I see people saying they agreed to pay the fees because a buyer has a lot of good feedback. A lot of times I think that a high number of feedback just means that person has had a lot of transactions. How many times do we leave good feedback when we aren't 100% happy? If I saw comments in feedback that the seller repeatedly tried to sneak fees in on buyers, I would be a lot less likely to buy from them no matter what their total feedback score was.I'd say yes you would be totally justified in leaving that kind of feedback as it's honest. If the seller gets defensive because they didn't want you to say that then...they shouldn't conduct their sales that way I really hate it when sellers suddenly tack on fees after you've seen the item + shipping price and agreed to purchase =/ I agreed to purchase it at that price, not the new higher one >(
I would love it if people mentioned the fee payment in their feedback. It's certainly not something I want to bother with from a seller. And I don't want to be in the midst of a sale and becoming emotionally attached and THEN being informed of the fees. That's like paying for groceries and then the manager comes out and says, "More money or you can't have the food." Not to mention I have an extremely limited amount of money to spend on ponies - if I have the $2.99, I have two dollars and ninety-nine cents. I do NOT have $3.36.
I don't think that makes me cheap or selfish.
The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?