Buyer Backed out of Sale NEED Advice regarding deposit.

[kasin]

I understand the legal portion and respect that, but as a community isn't there anything that can be done? This buyer can now go out and feel like they can do this to anyone and it makes selling risky here. Ember did nothing wrong but has to some how make the situation right and the buyer that made the problem is off Scott free to do it again? Ember was trying to help this person buy a grail pony by accepting payments (on a generous plan) and instead she is suffering, that's really sad.

[Ember1]

Ok guys. I only opened this thread after the buyer said she had gone to her credit card company about this. I dont want to drag anyones name through the mud here. I believe the buyer to be a nice person but i needed council after Our conversations yesterday. Thank you all for your input. ill figure out the best way to move forward so that all is resolved.

[Galactica]

I understand the legal portion and respect that, but as a community isn't there anything that can be done? This buyer can now go out and feel like they can do this to anyone and it makes selling risky here. Ember did nothing wrong but has to some how make the situation right and the buyer that made the problem is off Scott free to do it again? Ember was trying to help this person buy a grail pony by accepting payments (on a generous plan) and instead she is suffering, that's really sad.

There is nothing the community can do- nothing MLP Arena can do.   Except that sometimes shaming the person into doing the right thing seems to work.

[banditpony]

I understand the legal portion and respect that, but as a community isn't there anything that can be done? This buyer can now go out and feel like they can do this to anyone and it makes selling risky here. Ember did nothing wrong but has to some how make the situation right and the buyer that made the problem is off Scott free to do it again? Ember was trying to help this person buy a grail pony by accepting payments (on a generous plan) and instead she is suffering, that's really sad.

There is nothing the community can do- nothing MLP Arena can do.   Except that sometimes shaming the person into doing the right thing seems to work.

Feedback can be left. We can also give selling advice. It doesn't help this situation, but we can help future transactions. Sellers need to protect themselves.

When selling-- be clear to the seller the terms of the transaction. Don't spend money when transaction is not complete.

However, i don't feel shaming is right. We only have one side of the story. Even Ember said she didn't want to drag the buyer through the mud. She wanted advice :/ unfortunately not much can be done if buyer had already contacted cc company. I was under the impression there was still.negotiation.

[buddyboymama]

I'm very sorry to hear that you are in this situation. I would agree that it's not fair to keep the $500 deposit, especially if you didn't state up front that the deposit is non-refundable. But, I don't think you should have to offer the buyer a $500 item that you had no intention of selling. You have so many gems in your collection, and you want to keep the ones that are irreplaceable or have sentimental value. Why should the buyer get to pick and choose what to buy from your collection? That is not fair either.

I missed whether the buyer has already contacted the credit card company or not. You were kind enough to offer an installment plan for the balance of her purchase. If you are still negotiating, would she be willing to accept a refund in installments? You could set a deadline to pay her back in full, and if you are unable to pay it off in time, then maybe you could agree upon a pony to pay off the balance. I hope that you can work something out.

[lunar_scythe]

I think a LOT of the issue is more the buyers *behavior* then the amount; the buyer doesn't seem willing to wait, is trying to insist on getting a pony that was not for sale, and is threatening the seller, right?  Ember is not saying she won't give the money back; she is saying the buyer wants it *right now*, and doesn't seem willing to give her the time she needs to come up with the money, and is making what I would consider threats to go to the credit card company. 
The thing is, I don't think they CAN get their money back that way, if Ember has all her records?  After all, the agreement was probably carried out in either PMs or emails, I'm sure there's something stating the amount($500) was a deposit.  Ember has already agreed to try to give it back, but needs time to do so.

The company would probably take those emails or PMs as evidence the sale was agreed to, so the seller can't claim the card was used without permission.

It also can't be claimed as item not received, because the item hasn't been paid for fully, so I'm not sure what the buyer thinks the credit card company can do?

In other words, I don't think the buyer has any real way to force the money being returned to them immediately; their only real option is to calm down and try to work something out with Ember.  It's not like the money can magically appear in Ember's accounts,  and she can't give back what she doesn't have.

[NovelNerd]

I think a LOT of the issue is more the buyers *behavior* then the amount; the buyer doesn't seem willing to wait, is trying to insist on getting a pony that was not for sale, and is threatening the seller, right?  Ember is not saying she won't give the money back; she is saying the buyer wants it *right now*, and doesn't seem willing to give her the time she needs to come up with the money, and is making what I would consider threats to go to the credit card company. 
The thing is, I don't think they CAN get their money back that way, if Ember has all her records?  After all, the agreement was probably carried out in either PMs or emails, I'm sure there's something stating the amount($500) was a deposit.  Ember has already agreed to try to give it back, but needs time to do so.

The company would probably take those emails or PMs as evidence the sale was agreed to, so the seller can't claim the card was used without permission.

It also can't be claimed as item not received, because the item hasn't been paid for fully, so I'm not sure what the buyer thinks the credit card company can do?

In other words, I don't think the buyer has any real way to force the money being returned to them immediately; their only real option is to calm down and try to work something out with Ember.  It's not like the money can magically appear in Ember's accounts,  and she can't give back what she doesn't have.

The one thing I can say about payment plans is that I know PayPal doesn't view them in the light of an item not being paid for. I had an issue last year with a model horse I paid on payments and the owner wasn't shipping ect, but I couldn't get all my money back through PP because they were different transactions. While I did point out they were for the same item PP didn't respond to it in that way. I was lucky, eventually on her own terms the seller refunded me later.

Anyway just throwing that in there and I'm not sure how a cc company would view that. Hope all works out for you Ember.

[Honeycomb]

I think the buyer's behavior is wrong, plain morally wrong. I'd really like to know who this person is, so other people who might sell high priced items might be careful when entering into business with them.
Ember was nice enough to offer a payment plan on an otherwise probably unaffordable pony, and now she has to be the one to suffer, that is so not right, IMHO.

[ponylady]

I want everyone to please remember that there are two sides to this. I know for a fact the two of them have exchanged large portions of money in the past, with out a hitch. This is a one time occurrence.  So there honestly is no reason to question the OP's morals at this time.  Should appropriate feedback be left, absolutely! But trying to black ball someone over an obvious financial situation, is a bit unfair in my opinion. As I said before this is not a $20 transaction  most of us do not even deal with this kind of money when dealing with ponies. That is why we need to learn from this, and that is when dealing with payment plans that it needs stated upfront that the initial deposit or a portion of it is non-refundable. I know a lot of customizers do this without any issues due to supplies and the starting of the project. So I think when one enters into a sales of this sort that it should start being implemented.

Anyways Ember herself has stated she is not naming and shaming. She was merely seeking advice how how to handle the situation.  I think due to some miscommunication the situation escalated quickly and a CC was opened without thinking it through all the way. While I do not think that part of it fair, what's done is done and it needs to be rectified to the best of the OP's ability at this point.

[kasin]

For me its absolutely behavior that I have an issue with. We have an honor system and I feel its been violated here. Involving the card company so quickly when the buyer knows Ember is short funds is low, it could affect Embers credit and that's not ok, why didn't the buyer come here? The buyer owed Ember the same courtesy Ember gave her, to pay in installments, especially since Ember has a long positive history with this person and did not make this situation.

in any case, not my deal, back under my rock.

[Vertefae]

Ember I don't believe PayPal will side with your buyer if you show proof it's a deposit.

I think it's morally wrong to expect a deposit back when you back out of buying something. I will say in the BJD world, deposits are non refundable as are most payments. I've heard of the seller giving half back if the buyer changes their mind. But not the full amount.

[Galactica]

For me its absolutely behavior that I have an issue with. We have an honor system and I feel its been violated here. Involving the card company so quickly when the buyer knows Ember is short funds is low, it could affect Embers credit and that's not ok, why didn't the buyer come here? The buyer owed Ember the same courtesy Ember gave her, to pay in installments, especially since Ember has a long positive history with this person and did not make this situation.

in any case, not my deal, back under my rock.

Agreed.  Trying to get her refund back by filing a dispute with her credit card company- that is not cool and sounds like extortion to me.

[brighteyes]

For me its absolutely behavior that I have an issue with. We have an honor system and I feel its been violated here. Involving the card company so quickly when the buyer knows Ember is short funds is low, it could affect Embers credit and that's not ok, why didn't the buyer come here? The buyer owed Ember the same courtesy Ember gave her, to pay in installments, especially since Ember has a long positive history with this person and did not make this situation.

in any case, not my deal, back under my rock.

Agreed.  Trying to get her refund back by filing a dispute with her credit card company- that is not cool and sounds like extortion to me.

This is my feeling as well.  I tend to think of deposits, when I pay them, as non-refundable.  If an unforeseeable disaster happens (job-loss, car break down, health problems, etc...) and suddenly this money is desperately needed for bills then I can see trying to back out of an installment agreement and request a refund of a deposit. 

That being said, if it wasn't clear in the first place to the buyer that the deposit was non-refundable I can see her wanting it back.  However, he/she should extend the same courtesy to Ember by allowing her to repay in installments.  Also, the fact that the buyer just decided they didn't want the pony anymore and the request to cancel isn't due to an emergency doesn't sit well with me.  If you are going to spend upwards of 500$ on a pony and ask a seller to hold it while you make payments, you'd better be sure before you enter into that agreement especially if the seller states they are selling due to hardship.  Also, trying to shift into getting not-for-sale collection ponies in place of the agreed upon pony really isn't right and threatening to file a charge-back feel like extortion to me as well.  I would like to know who this buyer is too so as to avoid dealing with them in the future. Unless events in this case are dramatically different than they appear at the moment, this buyer is someone I would not want to receive a commission from, as these are paid with a non-refundable deposit.

[kasin]

Just a thought, but if the Buyer used PayPal and sent as a gift, they probably cant get the money back from there? That said, the claim was to the card, not PayPal, and card companies have insurance and might pay the buyer back with that rather than argue because its not a lot of money to them. If that's the case, asking Ember to pay this person would mean a double payment to the buyer wouldn't it? I think this person needs to prove they were NOT paid by their card before going after Ember now.

This is so ugly! I really need to stop posting on this thread!