What Happened to Dream Valley?

[Beldarna]

I used DreamValley for pure identification purposes and as a new collector back then, it was gold. I never read the facts written about the ponies though. I relied on discussions on the Arena and our Swedish forum for that knowledge.

I am sad to read that she didn't accept being at fault at some things and correct what was wrong.

[Snapdragon]

I basically printed out most of Dream Valley when I was younger and made my own notebook/check off book.  I just loved looking at all the backyard artwork she had posted.

OMG, I definitely thought that was just me! That's so cool that someone else printed it out too!

I faintly remember when she shifted from using the promo photos (which as we all know now are often prototype ponies and not finished products) to backcard illustrations, because I remember thinking 'how will I know how these ponies actually look?' But I wasn't aware that there was any pressure on her for her to change the site. I wish it had been allowed to continue like I wish the other Ring of Rainbows sites had continued - as someone's personal page. It was so much fun for me to page through, scrolling through the years, and I definitely miss it. I miss all of the Ring of Rainbows, really!

[LadyMoondancer]

I miss Dream Valley, it was the OG. I used to spend hours on there.

[Taffeta]

I am sad to read that she didn't accept being at fault at some things and correct what was wrong.

Likewise. I traded with Kim right back at the beginning - somewhere I have a vhs of pony commercials she copied for me in exchange for some UK pony or other.

@Snapdragon, by 1997 she was using backcards and inserts predominately. Did she do differently in 1996, or are you thinking of when she updated from the backcard/inserts to photos from her collection?
She also wasn't under pressure to change her site. She was asked to update it, and refused.

From her perspective, there was a lot of new information coming in, and contradictory information, possibly, from people in different places.

I can kind of understand her being overwhelmed by this. The reason it still sits badly with me is that she stopped replying to emails from people who submitted information (I had long since stopped by then, but I had heard from other people who helped with my site and who complained to me a LOT about it). She didn't reply to them or add their information, but she did always respond on the mailing lists whenever anyone mentioned DV might be wrong about something. That would lead to international people being castigated  for not helping - when of course, we'd all been trying to do that exact thing :/

At least 50% of the information that we know about ponies now didn't come from DV. Certainly nothing international originated from DV. It's why I say we should remember and respect it, but move on from it. It was a site of its time, but it was already out of touch by 1998 or 1999.

I remember the RIng of Rainbows That is something that is sadly missed, since the majority of the sites on it were fan sites, had pictures, stories, personal collection stuff. And that was always nice to browse through

*Edited because apparently I can't count years*

[Tropical_Sunset]

Dream Valley was the first pony site I found. I was amazed at finding a place where I could view the ponies of my childhood and remember which ones I had, which ones I wanted, etc. Toys I thought everyone had forgotten. Soon after, I decided I was going to recollect all the ponies from my childhood, something I'm still working on. So many fond memories...

[ChocolateStarfire]

Dream Valley is extremely nostalgic for me. I think that is how I found the MLP Arena. It's how I found out about custom MLP links as well, through a series of webrings if I recall correctly. Without Dream Valley, I wouldn't be on this site, or the MLPTP.

I think that, despite the errors of the site, that it was the first pony wiki of its kind, well before other encyclopedia websites. It was an unwieldy project for just one person to handle on their own, and I'd imagine it was stressful managing that much information, much less updating it frequently. I think folks forget that Internet connections and communities now are very different than they were in the 90s and early 00s, that communication between folks is now a lot easier and generally more understanding than it was then. The Dream Valley website is indeed a product of its own time, and it's not infallible, and at the same time, it's important to preserve it because it shows where the MLP community started, and where it is now.

[jillrose]

Wow....thanks everyone for so many responses and memories!   This is all very interesting to learn.

I remember Kim Shriner as being somewhat of an enigmatic presence in the MLP collecting world; although she had her site, I don't recall that she was active on the MLPTP or Ebay or anything that passed for social networking back in those days.  All that was ever known of her was that she lived in New Jersey, which made her all the more fascinating to me, since I grew up / lived in New Jersey myself back then.  No picture of her ever surfaced to the best of my knowledge.

I also remember being CERTAIN that a Li'l Litters commercial existed on her site, but then when I went to find it again years later, it was gone, and she insisted it had never been there.  So strange.

[Ponyfan]

I sent Kim some Youtube links to commercials that she said she didn't have links to on her site. 

I noticed that she had mentioned on her site that BBE Gusty's duck toy had a certain color of wheels/string but it wasn't confirmed.  I sent her an email confirming the color and telling her I was absolutely sure that it was Baby Gusty's duck toy as she was the only baby pony in my childhood herd that had the duck toy.  There was no way that I could be mistaken since I only had one duck toy.  She never changed the information on her site, and I got the impression that she didn't believe me since I couldn't back it up with MIB evidence.


Ponyfan

[Snapdragon]

@Snapdragon, by 1997 she was using backcards and inserts predominately. Did she do differently in 1996, or are you thinking of when she updated from the backcard/inserts to photos from her collection?

OMG, maybe I reversed the image change! I just remember thinking, woah, why'd she change it? I missed the old version! But I think it must have been the shift from backcards to photos, which meant that the way I imagined the ponies didn't always add up to the reality!

[ValeofSpring]

Hello all! I am an old-timer in online MLP community--I'm basically inactive now though I stopped by to see if there was any new info on the Basic Fun ponies (I . . . just can't w/ the new Collector set w/ the logo from years later . . .).

I was active on Dream Valley in the late 90s and communicated with Kim and contributed to the site. Back then there was very little MLP info online. Like her, I had my own encyclopedic memory of MLP from the 1980s, so my occasional emails with her were fun b/c we often had nothing to go on but our own memories of what we got and when. I remembered some of the lyrics to various commercials and contributed those . . . after 15 years I still remembered that the original Rainbow Ponies commercial lyrics went through the names of all six ponies:)

One particular gift I had that helped with contributing to Dream Valley was remembering what year and what time of year it was when I first saw certain commercials or when I first saw something in a store.

I do remember that Kim said on DV that Year 3 was MLP's "most obscure," which I always thought was funny b/c from seeing lots on eBay it was obvious that Year 3 was incredibly popular and sold very well (think Megan & Sundance, the first baby ponies, the baby sea ponies, Lullabye Nursery, etc.). She was basing this on her difficulty getting the adult sea ponies when they were in stores in 1985. I'm not sure why exactly the adult sea ponies were in short supply but in my own limited experience my friends and I were totally enamored with baby ponies, ponies with curly hair, etc. The adult sea ponies and SHELLS looked quite beautiful in the ads but they were eclipsed by much more exciting sets.

Like Kim, I was raised in the US with knowledge based solely on what was available here, in the primary market for Hasbro. Perhaps she got too ambitious with including international sets, and I remember being truly shocked (as I'm sure she was) at the level of variety as more information became available. In the 80s I had known MLPs were sold overseas, but I had assumed they were the same ponies sold at the same time (learning of the existence of Baby Bow-Tie when I was a child would have blown my mind). I never developed an interest in the non-US ponies and I'm guessing Kim's heart, like mine, was with the US sets we knew from childhood.

I would be very curious to know how much email she got. She always responded to me, though again we didn't communicate that often. She did correct the few errors I brought to her attention!

In unrelated news . . . I am a college professor now and just brought a few G1s to my office . . . I am interested to see how the students respond

[starstrider]

I loved DV back in the day. The pony ID function was super helpful when I was still a new collector and still learning about the MLP verse. I was genuinely sad when the site closed down.

[Taffeta]

@ValeofSpring, I suspect she had a lot of mail. I can see how that would be overwhelming. I just wish she had done a better job with communicating, and most of all, asking for help.

I have to underscore that the way she treated US collectors and international collectors was, after a point, very different. I often wonder if something happened, because like I said, I traded with her and so did several other international people. But then she basically shut us off. She complained about having no help, but refused it when it was offered, or ignored people's messages.

Sadly the real negative impact was on international collectors who were also trying to make sense of what was going on at the time. None of us knew 100% then what information was right and what wasn't unless it related to our own region of the world. But more and more we ended up bypassing DV and just having conversations among ourselves because it was hopeless trying to get through. Between us we figured out the correct international information. DV has no credit with international info. All that work was done by the international community.

I think it was ambitious to include the international stuff for the simple reason that it's not nice and compact and simple like the US line. It's really easy to understand what happened in the US. Everywhere else is not a region, though. That's the first problem. Kim handled it as US vs International and that was always going to be artificial. (Actually, back then international was often represented by 'UK', hence why people still sometimes, wrongly, refer to european sold ponies as UK, whether or not they were sold here).

The reason I'd like to put DV to bed, though, is that we've spent 2+ decades dealing with the awkward of trying to fit ponies not sold in the US into some fictional extra category, or into the 'year' system - neither of which works. Dancing Butterfies is not a US pony, because I had her as a child from new. We need to stop talking about ponies in terms of regions like that, and letting go of DV and Kim's way of organising MLP would be a great way to start.

Final note. If people feel sympathy for Kim being overwhelmed in that situation, fair enough. But spare a thought for the international traders having to navigate around and fix duff information for literally YEARS, on account of DV's insistence on keeping up information that was proven incorrect.

Some people I knew well got treated very badly because of it. It's an experience US collectors probably never had in the early days of MLP - being accused of scamming when trying to sell your childhood ponies.

[ChocolateStarfire]

Taffeta-I am sorry to hear what you and other international pony sellers/buyers/collectors went through with Dream Valley. I was very new to the pony collecting community when I found that site and completely unaware of the strife you and others went through in working with Kim on it. I didn't even know of other collectors in my area--I'm still finding new people to connect with today!

Everyone will have different memories of the DV site itself and I don't think the intent of the original post was to stir up bad feelings about it. :/  I understand when your situation is very different from the positive nostalgia others feel--and it's probably hard to read about that site again after all this time. Sending pony hugs <3

Post Merge: April 12, 2023, 06:01:59 PM

Hello all! I am an old-timer in online MLP community--I'm basically inactive now though I stopped by to see if there was any new info on the Basic Fun ponies (I . . . just can't w/ the new Collector set w/ the logo from years later . . .).

I was active on Dream Valley in the late 90s and communicated with Kim and contributed to the site. Back then there was very little MLP info online. Like her, I had my own encyclopedic memory of MLP from the 1980s, so my occasional emails with her were fun b/c we often had nothing to go on but our own memories of what we got and when. I remembered some of the lyrics to various commercials and contributed those . . . after 15 years I still remembered that the original Rainbow Ponies commercial lyrics went through the names of all six ponies:)

One particular gift I had that helped with contributing to Dream Valley was remembering what year and what time of year it was when I first saw certain commercials or when I first saw something in a store.

I do remember that Kim said on DV that Year 3 was MLP's "most obscure," which I always thought was funny b/c from seeing lots on eBay it was obvious that Year 3 was incredibly popular and sold very well (think Megan & Sundance, the first baby ponies, the baby sea ponies, Lullabye Nursery, etc.). She was basing this on her difficulty getting the adult sea ponies when they were in stores in 1985. I'm not sure why exactly the adult sea ponies were in short supply but in my own limited experience my friends and I were totally enamored with baby ponies, ponies with curly hair, etc. The adult sea ponies and SHELLS looked quite beautiful in the ads but they were eclipsed by much more exciting sets.

Like Kim, I was raised in the US with knowledge based solely on what was available here, in the primary market for Hasbro. Perhaps she got too ambitious with including international sets, and I remember being truly shocked (as I'm sure she was) at the level of variety as more information became available. In the 80s I had known MLPs were sold overseas, but I had assumed they were the same ponies sold at the same time (learning of the existence of Baby Bow-Tie when I was a child would have blown my mind). I never developed an interest in the non-US ponies and I'm guessing Kim's heart, like mine, was with the US sets we knew from childhood.

I would be very curious to know how much email she got. She always responded to me, though again we didn't communicate that often. She did correct the few errors I brought to her attention!

In unrelated news . . . I am a college professor now and just brought a few G1s to my office . . . I am interested to see how the students respond

That's cool that you helped out with the site back in the day! As a fellow prof, I've yet to share my ponies with my students--I prefer to keep them at home! I hope they like the ponies!

[Taffeta]

Honestly, it was a long time ago, and it isn't as though I hate either Kim or DV. I'm frustrated that things happened how they did, I'm also frustrated that people both at the time and since tend to hold DV up as a paragon because it was the first, and the reality was different.

But on the flipside, the international community grew, came together and formed its own mailing list, had its own pony meets...I think the first was 2003. And part of how that community grew back then was because we'd begun talking among ourselves about ponies here, and mutual frustration with the 'mainstream narrative'.

It's also not as though everyone stateside didn't care or didn't listen. A lot of people did. But there were some quite influential and loud folk who didn't, and who helped make things tough for some of the people I knew.

It took about six years from when the problem was first flagged until Kim took the site sections down. I wasn't part of it, so I don't know what happened exactly. But I don't feel sorry in the slightest that she felt pressured to do it. She should have done it a lot earlier, when she realised she couldn't cope with the influx of information. But eh. That's how it is. It took about the next ten or so years to eradicate most of the misinformation. There's still about 10% of it out there being promoted on existing websites.

Even now international collectors are less listened to when it comes to discussions on pony information. Even when it comes to international pony information. The whole deal with MLPMErch adding 'nss paradise' to their site and then demanding international folk prove she didn't exist, because a US based site claimed she did, is kind of proof of that.

There is not a single mainstream ID site today which represents international MLP releases properly, and that's a legacy of DV. If we're ever to fix that, we have to let DV go, accept its flaws, and move on. I don't think we ever will, though.