How did baby Ember get her cutie mark?

[Pokeyonekenobie]

It's my personal opinion, but yes I think the world in the G1 MLP cartoon is very boring and doesn't inspire much imagination. For most of the part you just have a bunch of ponies (all of which can be switched out to advertise new toys) living in a big pink building, which of course is a toy you can buy. Their closest community is super small and basically 100% dictated by which toys Hasbro are selling. They travel to different places and meet various creatures, but everything feels invented by the writers as they went along, not like it's part of a larger, coherent world. Most of the time the creatures they meet don't have any meaningful connection to the ponies (and once the episode is over, they're instantly forgotten). It's ok to like this style of storytelling of course, but I much prefer FIM's world where you have so many ponies and creatures living in different locations. Everything feels more coherent and connected, while still always having lots of room for expansion.

The entire point of the G1 cartoon was to act as an advertisement for the toys.  Not the other way around, like G4 was.  And MLP wasn't the only cartoon to do this, either.  GI Joe, Transformers, He-Man, She-Ra, Ninja Turtles...almost every 80s cartoon was designed to be an ad for the toy lines.  Some of the cartoons succeeded in having a more coherent and connected storyline but they were there every Saturday Morning to sell toys.

[Taffeta]

It's also basically the case that the original series was written like that. You have some repeat writers and others who write one off episodes. I have no idea if G1 MLP had a bible like Jem did, but even with Jem some of the writers chose to ignore continuity things that would have made so much more sense. Although that also made parts of the Jemverse interesting because you could theorise some of those coincidental small details together into something bigger for certain characters.

I don't think that's the case with the pony episodes so much as it's more about arcs. You can almost think about some of those eps with their multiple parts as mini specials in their own right, rather than a continuity.

I actually agree with Lilja about the TV series continuity as being somewhat vague. But for me G1 was about picking and choosing the bits and pieces from different continuities and my own imagination to figure out what ponies were for me. I only had 4 TV eps as a kid and I didn't really consider anything in them meaningful except that Paradise existed. :/ I don't really see G1's animation as a 'series' because I never saw them air on TV as such as a kid. They were released on VHS tapes which also made them more like a special to me.

While the comic (which was also advertising, let's not mistake that) had a rolling cast, there were a number of repeat characters in the world (JunkIt, Wizard Wantall, Weather Witch, Miranda, Kelpie etc), and a number of repeat locations (Weird Wood, Misty Mountain, Rainbow Mountain, Whispering Wood) which did give this sense of a 'world' that had other places in it beyond the borders of ponyland. The ponies "coming to live in ponyland" rarely explained why they came there though. Some did - like the MGR ponies being rescued from the Whirligig and the TE ponies rescued from the mine - but many just decided to move in...

[Carrehz]

There was a series bible, Wildshadow has it and has posted pics from it in the past.

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,294582.0.html

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, series have bibles or something similar.

[Leave a Whisper]

At Lilja and LadyAmalthea

Being invented by writers as they went along? Why its almost as if that is how you write a story. Furthermore there were some overarcing plotlines that got tied up. And there were plenty of characters. And yes different writers did write it, so its not that surprising.

I find it interesting that you bash n Friends for centering on a community of ponies. Because last I checked, that's every MLP cartoon. So you'd better apply that criticism to Tales, G3 animation and FiM as well, because its My Little Pony. Sorry but that's hypocritical. Its like griping about  Smurfs focusing mostly on Smurfs. And yet they still traveled and met different sorts of creatures good and bad in other lands. And there were 2 other communities of talking ponies in the cartoon. Or did you forget that Flutter Valley and Greyvale exists? Oh and what about Tales island ponies? And the unexplained existence of Glow n Shows?  And G3's Butterfly Island and Unicornia?

[Taffeta]

There was a series bible, Wildshadow has it and has posted pics from it in the past.

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,294582.0.html

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, series have bibles or something similar.

Ah, that's true. Now you mention it I remember it being discussed before.
It does make sense. I don't know as much about the stuff behind the pony series as I do the Jem one, and haven't checked up on writer names for the pony eps to see how many overlap. I am also not sure who was the overriding creator if there was one. With Jem it was Christy Marx and Roger Slifer who took on the bulk of that (Christy being the bible creator) but there were occasional episodes which were written or cowritten and didn't really adhere to the bible. It strikes me maybe MLP had more variety in that sense, so you have the multi part eps that connect as a series but there isn't massive continuity between for example Bright Lights and Crunch the Rock Dog outside the pony cast.

Not that there's anything wrong with this, they just seem more like encapsulated stories in themselves rather than a series continuity.

[Lilja]

The entire point of the G1 cartoon was to act as an advertisement for the toys.  Not the other way around, like G4 was. 

The G4 show also exists to sell toys just as much as G1. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, I just don't think G1 did a good job as far as making an enjoyable cartoon out of it. The first two specials are fine, but from the movie onwards I can really only enjoy it as a subject of study nowadays (but I've watched the episodes hundreds of times since childhood).

I find it interesting that you bash n Friends for centering on a community of ponies. Because last I checked, that's every MLP cartoon. So you'd better apply that criticism to Tales, G3 animation and FiM as well, because its My Little Pony. Sorry but that's hypocritical. Its like griping about  Smurfs focusing mostly on Smurfs.

Actually the opposite is true. The one thing that always bothered me with the show since childhood was how little many of the stories focused on the ponies, and more on guest characters each episode (I like Tales a lot more, partly for this reason). Basically you seem to have misunderstood just about everything I said, but either way I don't think there's any reason to get this worked up about me not liking a piece of MLP media.

This thread seems to have strayed very far from the original subject.

[KarentheUnicorn]

Meanwhile, we all spend our time on a forum dedicated to us talking about plastic toys made by hasbro, while at the same time some of us accuse the 80's cartoon of only being an advertisement to sell toys.

Somehow, I'm feeling like the manipulation seems like a 30+ year success. Apparently, I'm not the only sucker round here.

[Jorgito93]

At Lilja and LadyAmalthea

Being invented by writers as they went along? Why its almost as if that is how you write a story. Furthermore there were some overarcing plotlines that got tied up. And there were plenty of characters. And yes different writers did write it, so its not that surprising.

I find it interesting that you bash n Friends for centering on a community of ponies. Because last I checked, that's every MLP cartoon. So you'd better apply that criticism to Tales, G3 animation and FiM as well, because its My Little Pony. Sorry but that's hypocritical. Its like griping about  Smurfs focusing mostly on Smurfs. And yet they still traveled and met different sorts of creatures good and bad in other lands. And there were 2 other communities of talking ponies in the cartoon. Or did you forget that Flutter Valley and Greyvale exists? Oh and what about Tales island ponies? And the unexplained existence of Glow n Shows?  And G3's Butterfly Island and Unicornia?

What overarching plotlines ? The closest i see is the witches from the movie coming back in end of flutter valley but that isn't really an overarching plotline, just villains coming back.
Also idk if i read their messages or yours wrong but i don't see anywhere them criticizing the fact it centers on a community of ponies? To me their criticism was more about the fact n friends is composed of disjointed adventures that have no consequence on the previous or next ones, and while i don't mind that, i can see how it would bother some people.

[Leave a Whisper]

At Lilja and LadyAmalthea

Being invented by writers as they went along? Why its almost as if that is how you write a story. Furthermore there were some overarcing plotlines that got tied up. And there were plenty of characters. And yes different writers did write it, so its not that surprising.

I find it interesting that you bash n Friends for centering on a community of ponies. Because last I checked, that's every MLP cartoon. So you'd better apply that criticism to Tales, G3 animation and FiM as well, because its My Little Pony. Sorry but that's hypocritical. Its like griping about  Smurfs focusing mostly on Smurfs. And yet they still traveled and met different sorts of creatures good and bad in other lands. And there were 2 other communities of talking ponies in the cartoon. Or did you forget that Flutter Valley and Greyvale exists? Oh and what about Tales island ponies? And the unexplained existence of Glow n Shows?  And G3's Butterfly Island and Unicornia?

What overarching plotlines ? The closest i see is the witches from the movie coming back in end of flutter valley but that isn't really an overarching plotline, just villains coming back.
Also idk if i read their messages or yours wrong but i don't see anywhere them criticizing the fact it centers on a community of ponies? To me their criticism was more about the fact n friends is composed of disjointed adventures that have no consequence on the previous or next ones, and while i don't mind that, i can see how it would bother some people.

Not every story was always finished in one episode obviously. And the episodic stand-alones were and are still in use of modern cartoons today. One may not like the originals, but to call them lackluster when there was lots to see and adventures in nearly every one, as well as to gripe about them being centered on the titular group is odd.

With the episodes being so short, they kind of had to do overarching plots, otherwise we'd get the poorly written types of cartoon like Fully Charged or Cyberverse.

[Pokeyonekenobie]

Meanwhile, we all spend our time on a forum dedicated to us talking about plastic toys made by hasbro, while at the same time some of us accuse the 80's cartoon of only being an advertisement to sell toys.

Somehow, I'm feeling like the manipulation seems like a 30+ year success. Apparently, I'm not the only sucker round here.

It is what it is.  I'm not saying it was a bad thing, that's just what they did in the 80s.
In case people are interested, I'm going to leave this here.

https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/20-amazing-cartoons-created-to-simply-sell-toys/2900-2623/#1

[Leave a Whisper]

The entire point of the G1 cartoon was to act as an advertisement for the toys.  Not the other way around, like G4 was. 

The G4 show also exists to sell toys just as much as G1. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, I just don't think G1 did a good job as far as making an enjoyable cartoon out of it. The first two specials are fine, but from the movie onwards I can really only enjoy it as a subject of study nowadays (but I've watched the episodes hundreds of times since childhood).

I find it interesting that you bash n Friends for centering on a community of ponies. Because last I checked, that's every MLP cartoon. So you'd better apply that criticism to Tales, G3 animation and FiM as well, because its My Little Pony. Sorry but that's hypocritical. Its like griping about  Smurfs focusing mostly on Smurfs.

Actually the opposite is true. The one thing that always bothered me with the show since childhood was how little many of the stories focused on the ponies, and more on guest characters each episode (I like Tales a lot more, partly for this reason). Basically you seem to have misunderstood just about everything I said, but either way I don't think there's any reason to get this worked up about me not liking a piece of MLP media.

This thread seems to have strayed very far from the original subject.

Ok, now your flip-flopping.

[KarentheUnicorn]

Meanwhile, we all spend our time on a forum dedicated to us talking about plastic toys made by hasbro, while at the same time some of us accuse the 80's cartoon of only being an advertisement to sell toys.

Somehow, I'm feeling like the manipulation seems like a 30+ year success. Apparently, I'm not the only sucker round here.

It is what it is.  I'm not saying it was a bad thing, that's just what they did in the 80s.
In case people are interested, I'm going to leave this here.

https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/20-amazing-cartoons-created-to-simply-sell-toys/2900-2623/#1

meh, actually I don't need a refresher, as I was there and from just scrolling and looking at the pictures I probably watched a majority of the cartoons. I'm pretty sure anyone that grew up in the 80's watching those, even at the time we knew it was to sell toys, however it was because we liked the toys that we watched the cartoon.

Maybe that isn't always expressed so well (At least with MLP it's not, since the cartoon came a while after the toys were already popular, regardless of what some of the FIM centered forums and fandoms suggest); It was because the toyline was successful that there was a cartoon about them, not the reverse.

[Lilja]

I'm pretty sure anyone that grew up in the 80's watching those, even at the time we knew it was to sell toys, however it was because we liked the toys that we watched the cartoon.

Absolutely this! I loved the MLP toys as a child, that's why I watched the cartoon over and over. As an adult I still think the toys are great, but the cartoon not as much anymore. It is what it is. You look at things differently with adult eyes, but I still find plenty of ways to get enjoyment out of it.

[MJNSEIFER]

I'm still going to put my overall explanation into the big thread I'm planning, but I feel I should clear some things up, just in case I've given people the wrong impression here.  I'm not sure how much of this, if any, came from what I said, and how much of it is what other people have done.

I am in no way saying that G4 rules should be canonically applied to previous generations, nor am I saying that any pre-G4 cutie marks/symbols need to be explained using G4 logic.  I simply said that I enjoy using my imagination this way, because I enjoy using my imagination about things that mean something to me, and FiM's way of how cutie marks work means something to me.  I have no idea if anyone (who wasn't simply unaware that G4 was the first generation to treat cutie marks/symbols this way) has insisted on actually explaining the cutie marks/symbols of pre-G4 ponies this way, but that is not what I am doing.  I am simply saying that if anyone wants to imagine or even write things that way, they can do so, the same way people who don't like the way cutie marks were handled in G4 can totally ignore that, and imagine and/or write that those ponies are born with their cutie marks too – it's your world, you can do what you want with it.

I am not in anyway saying that G4 or it's logic is superior to the previous generations either.  Yes, I prefer G4's way of how cutie marks are earned, and relate to talent, and yes, in our (myself and a friend's) fanseries we are applying this rule to pre-FiM ponies, but that isn't supposed to even imply that G4 is superior.  For one thing, if the fanseries is set in a G4 world, then it is ultimately it is G4 rules that will mostly apply; it wouldn't make sense to include pre-G4 ponies and have them  be born with their cutie marks, and to have the G1 and G2 ponies call them symbols, or have the G3 unicorns be the only unicorns incapable of teleportation etc. that would make sense in something that's litterally meant to be a cross-over between generations, like all universes meeting, but that isn't what this fanseries is – it's a fanseries that is set in Equestria, but can include ponies from previous generations, as well as other elements (if there are things that fit from other generations, then we can include them.)  It is not because either of us view G4 to be superior (in fact, our shared favorite generation is G3), it is ultimately because the storyline takes place in a fanon version of a G4 world, so most of the logic of how things work would come from there.  If we viewed G4 to be the special and only good generation, then we wouldn't be including anything from the previous generations at all.

In fact, even FiM's canon is not taken as gospel (the fanseries includes CheeriMac for pony's sake!) we are simply including what we like about FiM and/or what we feel fits in with our storyline, and creating our own fanon.  We do not in any way intend to even imply that our version of things is the correct canon of any and all versions of My Little Pony, that everyone should follow, and I in no way intended to give this impression, if I did.

Leaving our fanseries aside, this is just who I am in general – if something interests me, it fuels me to use my imagination.  I have no idea if it's a generational thing (to be honest though, I don't really like to think generational things apply to me – it's my own personality, tastes and opinions that define me, not what generation I'm part of), but it is definitely a “me” thing; I'm the guy who has the desire to turn a simple cute moment between two fictional characters into a full romantic storyline, the guy who enjoys taking a throwaway gag in a cartoon and building a storyline around it, the guy who sees a character who isn't given enough of a personality (due to not being a character important enough, or used enough to be given one) and gives them a personality and makes them a full character based on how he interprets the character (some of which can be based on what I've seen of how the character behaves in canon and/or even fanon of them, but even with that it's ultimately the version I've gone with for them.)  I'm not the only one who has imagination, nor am I the only one who has the desire to create from said imagination, but it's something I love doing – I mean, one of my future non-pony projects is a story about a minor, one scene (I think) character in a movie that I haven't even seen yet!  Once inspiration opens the door, there's no stopping me from going in!

On the subject of cutie marks/symbols, like I said, I prefer G4's way of doing it, because it's a storyline that interests me, and I like the idea of it.  I have never felt from the show that a pony has to be defined by their cutie mark, or that it means that each pony is only good at one thing, and I certainly haven't been given the impression that they can end up being stuck with ones they don't want.  I simply feel that it represents what the pony is best at out of all the things they can do and/or something that matches their personality – it can at times be a destiny thing, but that's if it matters to the storyline that it is.  Ultimately it is each pony's own choice whether they choose to be defined by their cutie mark or not, in my mind.  The show also made it clear to me personally that ponies have other talents other than whatever their cutie mark talent is, and that they don't have to follow goals that their cutie mark talent represents.

But that's just my interpretation, and I have no intention on stopping anyone from viewing it differently, or even not liking FiM's cutie mark storyline at all – it's up to us all how we view things individually.  The same as how it's up to each of us what “canon” of any generation we follow (all generations up to, and including G4 have more than one canon as far as I can see, though I need to check on G2) or if we just ignore everything and simply create our own world from scratch, or do any combination of the above (which is ultimately what the fanseries does – it combines bits of different canons with each other, and with its own fanon, other people don't have to do this themselves, but it's what we're doing, and at times it will simply be a shout-out to a specific generation and/or canon rather than outright stating it as fact within the fanseries.)

At the end of the day, I love My Little Pony, all of My Little Pony (up to G4.)  I may have (mostly) started with G4, and as an adult, and I may have missed out on growing up with what came before FiM, and getting to play with the toys, and maybe I would have ended up with the same views as how canon should work, or maybe I wouldn't – I have no way of knowing, that reality never happened for me, but this is who I am now; a fan of My Little Pony who loves, and is inspired by all generations and wants to share his love and nostalgia for all of them with everyone else who loves My Little Pony, as they enjoy their own nostalgia for it.

[Taffeta]

@MJSNEIFER

The irony is that everyone having their own idea about pony is kind of the mantra behind G1 (and probably G2 and G3) as well. And despite all the disagreements, nobody is saying it's wrong to have your own personal concept, preference, whatever. In your own creative work and project and space it's entirely your own ideas anyway. Nobody is saying that that is wrong in the slightest. Actually the opposite. But this multi-generational forum is an entirely separate space away from those projects, where fans with a wide range of opinions and backgrounds roam. People who read your work probably agree with your concepts. That isn't the same on a forum like this one, where some will agree and some will not.

You also mentioned that you like the CM concept because it means something to you. In which case maybe you'll understand my position best when I say there are many things from G1 - the comics especially - that mean stuff to me too.  And they have nothing to do with FIM whatsoever.

I am sure there are others for whom moments in the G1 tv series matter in the same kind of way.

I am sure there are others who have precious self-developed canons from some childhood game or interpretation of a character because of a particular memory or childhood friend/game.

...Those things are just as valid as the thing that is important to you. And we shouldn't have to keep defending them in this groundhog-day thread topic that keeps coming up over and over again. It's like FIM fans are obsessed with this Ember symbol thing, because it somehow gives legitimacy to the concept in G4 back in the eighties. And maybe it does - but only because RaMC may have inspired Faust to develop it. Not because it has any meaning for G1 ponies overall.

As I said before, other features than just the symbol were also the focus in the comics around ponies in G1.

And in terms of things that are important to me personally - please don't use cutie mark to refer to G1 ponies, whatever the context. Maybe it doesn't bother you - but if we're talking about everyone's freedom, I think I have the right to ask that you use the proper terminology, even despite the thread title.

On another note, I don't know what your other thread idea is, but we really don't need any more threads about how G4 is relevant to G1, because, quite honestly, it isn't.