Quote from: MJNSEIFER on September 03, 2024, 01:37:37 PM

And today's kids aren't really like that (only using phones) - they aren't really that different to how we were as kids really, phones are just extra - I still see them playing outside and having fun, and the like, and some still play with toys because everybody is different no offense.

80's kids really did NOT have much access to computers.  I would have been severely punished if I ever went into an office space of one of the adults  I knew ; I can't imagine how much trouble I would have gotten into if I touched their computer!  we had TV (sometimes, when the adults would allow us access), we had cassette tape players and record players, and we had radios.  Other than that, personal electronics were NOT a thing until the '90's

I meant that today's kids still do things that we did as kids (go outside, play with toys, watch TV, etc.) as well as go on phones - that is what I meant by how we are not that different. No offense. In my opinion, kids having phones just gives them an extra thing than what we had.

In my view, it likely isn't connected to G4 in canon - it just reboots it, and this is coming from somebody who does view G5 as the future of G4 in fanon/headcanon.

It would make more sense given that G5 at face value really does seem like it's own generation (at least to me it does) - new locations, new rules, new species... so I am actually leaning towards the fact that, in canon at least, it is a new world, just a new world that reuses "Equestria" as its name, just like how there's been at least four towns named "Ponyville". It could even be seen as a new reboot version of the G4 Mane Six too, albeit lesser than it has been, as what little we've seen of them, they do seem to be similar to the G4 version, but it feels more like a reference to them, than outright saying "this is what they did next" or whatever.

Again, I don't mind G5 being connected to G4, as it still stands on its own either way for me, and feels like it's own generation for me (and again, in my headcanon they are connected), but it doesn't feel like they are as much in the show, outside rebooting, and nostalgic references to them, but if it is, I personally don't feel it affects anything.

Those who were angry are likely G4 purists anyway - not saying all of them were, but they at the very least seem to be people who don't get how MLP works, or even how rebooting works; even if the new version follows an older version/takes an older version as main inspiration, it is going to change things, that's how reboots work. There are some bronies (not all of us. ) who don't get, or don't want to get that MLP does not revolve around G4, and not everything that is also used in that generation has to be the same as it - I feel I have seen bronies acting like Pony Life gets the G4 characters wrong too, but it doesn't for the simple reason that it is not G4, it is G4.5 - a new generation with new ponies. I have also seen bronies act like, for example, that G3 Rainbow Dash ruins G4 Rainbow Dash, despite the obvious fact that G3 existed first (so, this is probably the people we're dealing with when looking at the anger directed towards G5s changes - not everybody, I'm sure, but I have seen a lot of praise towards G5, including from bronies.)

"Perfect Evolution to G4" is also a bad way for them to look at it, even if they have G4 as their favorite, which they allowed to do, obviously (it is my second favorite generation, so praise where praise is due) - ignoring that no generation can be perfect (I'll probably even find something wrong with G3 if I look hard enough) - My Little Pony was already "perfect" before G4 happened, and I feel that what really helped G4 succeed (outside of the internet being what it was to boost fandoms easier) was that it followed the format of previous generations - when it moved away from that, it felt more like a de-evolution to me, despite the fact that I never stopped loving G4, and it could still be "My Little Pony when it knew how to be - I actually feel like G5 (mostly Make Your Mark) is saving My Little Pony by returning it to its roots, both early G4 and the generations before G4 - either way, it feels more like My Little Pony than G4 eventually did for me (it felt like it at first, IMO.)

I honestly feel that the only thing wrong with G5 is that Hasbro don't see the awesome generation they have on their hands, and have no idea how to promote it - a big mistake was to largely limit it to Netflix, which, while I love using it, doesn't promote its products very well - Make Your Mark alone looks built to be a TV show, and like all animated generations is just screaming for a physical media release, because it's My Little Pony, and of course, they need to promote the toys more.

P.S. To NightChaser: I just noticed your post, and I ultimately agree with what you say about a Chapter Based show on Netflix making it an awkward show to fanbase over. Also I was part of the brony fandom since 2011, and from what I can see the gaps between seasons/episodes was relatively normal, though I can't give an exact timeline.

I disagree that Make Your Mark replaced fantasy and adventure though, as I feel it had adventure (though could have had more if it had better "pacing", i.e. it wasn't a Chapter Based show - it's something that the two conflicting complaints I've seen about Make Your Mark is that it focuses too much on the ponies goofing than doing story-related things, and that it focuses too much on the story so that the ponies don't get a chance to just hang out and be friends - I feel better pacing would have helped both sides, as much as I love Make Your Mark for what it is) and I definitely feel that it has a lot of fantasy, and would do so even if I didn't feel that social media fitted in to a fantasy setting perfectly (which I do) the whole atmosphere just has a very fantasy like vibe to it for me. No offense.

In regards to how you view the G5 Mane Ponies - I respect your opinion, but I certainly wouldn't view Pipp as anything like (early) Diamond Tiara or Trixie by a long shot - if she's like any G4 pony (and ultimately, she's like herself, in my opinion) I'd say she's Rarity - not only is she that perfect blend of adorable and beautiful, she's also the creator/artist of the Mane Cast (yes, I know Izzy can be seen as an artist too), where as with Rarity it was fashion design, with Pipp it's performing and (essentially) YouTube videos, as well as being a stylist or whatever. I also don't feel Zipp is very much like G4 Rainbow Dash, other than being an athletic pegasus (I even feel their personalities contrast each other in places), again no offense.

It shouldn't based on what I see with the quality of the show, but if it happens because of the toyline (i.e. what MLP actually it)... or even because of the show, which in my opinion, it shouldn't, then I will never see it as G5 failing, but rather Hasbro failing G5.

They don't seem to be doing much with the toyline, from what little I've seen - but there's a chance that Hasbro haven't known what to do with an MLP toyline since G3.5.

Cartoonwise, G5 is beautifully done, in my opinion (talking specifically about Make Your Mark here) - I love G4, and all of G4 means a lot to me, but in my opinion it lost something in the later seasons, however much I have nostalgia for those seasons. G5 basically restores MLP to not only early G4, but basically the earlier generations - it really does look like something I would have watched as a kid, just as G1 to at least early G4 also does.

I think it would work better if marketed more - G5 has fans among the people watching it. I know some bronies (who aren't the entirety of the fandom, I know) don't like it, but at least some of them are probably the kind of bronies that only like G4 and won't even give a chance to the other generations? I don't know who's a brony and who isn't in the MLP fandom unless they specify, but I have seen a lot of G4 fans who love G5, or at least like it, so it has a following - it just needs to be pushed more for the actual target audience (though at this rate, pushing it towards any audience would be a start, it seems.)

I love G4, I always will, and it does deserve the praise it received, in my opinion, but also in my opinion, a lot of it was down to timing - it was the right moment for a show to be noticed this way. It is indeed a beautifully written, nostalgic, and mostly audience respecting (i.e. it doesn't talk down to them... not always, anyway) show, but the same things can be said about the generations preceding, and succeeding G4 - and in some cases, I'd even say they do it better.

G4 MLP was awesome, because it behaved like MLP (and this is coming from somebody who mostly started with G4) and in my opinion, started to go downhill when it moved away from that, but G5 does feel like MLP to me, so it should be helping the franchise, and should be given a chance to do so.

I only saw the first G5 movie once, so I might be wrong, but if irc, G5 is set in a distant future from G4.  At the beginning of the movie, Sunny and her friends are playing with Mane 6 G4 toys and one of them says something about the different ponies all living separately from each other instead of together like they did in the Mane 6's time.  Also I never quite figured out how the new elements in Sunny's time, fit in with the G4-G5 timeline.



Ponyfan

Maybe they're planning to explain it, at some point (if they haven't already) - I mainly follow Make Your Mark and they haven't really explained it. To be honest, the more I look at it, the more it feels like G5 really is a new generation, with a new world, and everything else - it just happens to use the idea of being a sequel to G4 as a starting point, and its own idea of G4 at that (it's a 100% coincidence, but G5 actually makes more sense as a sequel to my own fanon of G4 than the canon G4.)

I don't know if Hasbro felt they needed to at least vaguely connect it with G4 due to that generation having such a fanbase or not - even as early as A New Generation, I personally feel that G5 already stands as its own generation, and has flown its own skies, as it were.  I think that some bronies need to get that you can love a new generation for itself without letting go of the older generation, and maybe Hasbro needs to get that they don't have to let go of the older (money making) generation, either - but promote the newer generations, and let that do what a previous (G4 isn't even the last generation before G5) did - it has a following, it is a good generation. Use it!

Maybe a rainbow colored box? I mean, it fits My Little Pony, and would probably stand out as it's multiple colors, as well as looking beautiful. Or would that still blend in with other toys?

I'll push back lightly on this and even posit the idea that it urges kids to check out MLP FIM at all with their vague inclusion of Twilight Sparkle. She's not introduced as anything, she's a hologram, and then her appearance is referred to at multiple points. We also have the inclusion of Celestia and Luna, Spike.... The FIM show just kind of offers kids way more to chew on (and it's readily available on Youtube!), even if they got started with G5. If you give a kid a phone, and they're looking up Twilight Sparkle because they're curious about this pony who was introduced (or even just looking up any G5 stuff at all) they're going to find all of the crossover stuff with FIM, the FIM episodes themselves, and hours and hours of content. And ads for toys! And merch!

In my mind, it is good for a reboot of anything to draw its fans in the direction of the original, or previous versions - that is how I write my (fictional) reboots - they are their own thing, yes, but they give enough awareness that previous versions exist, not that new viewers would need that much help these days, as it is easier to see there are several version of things - which is a good thing, IMO. They don't have to be reboot sequels like G5 is to G4, but they can call back.

I still feel G5 stands on it's own, even with these - not only is it (in my opinion) its own take on the G4 characters used, they are also used pretty sparingly - they include Twilight early in the show as a kind of nostalgic starting point, the Celestia and Luna thing is easily ignored, in my opinion (which, despite my love of G5 I actually do ignore, because it doesn't match my personal headcanon, which I know is my personal headcanon), the Spike stuff I feel works better than what FiM itself did design-wise, but again I feel they are their own take on the characters - by pure coincidence, G5 actually makes more sense as a sequel to my version of G4 than the real G4 (and even some of G5 doesn't fit my version either - which matters even less than fitting the real G4, because it's fanon.)

It could have stood on its own if they had developed the rules of the world in-universe, but it kind of feels like they didn't. A lot of required reading expected going in, I felt.

Again, it could be an encouragement to check out older versions, and enjoy them as well as the current version, but I still feel G5 stands on its own even with this. If you don't, I respect that, but even if it wasn't connecting to (possibly its own version of) a previous generation, it makes sense in my opinion to not establish everything about the world before hand - it gives the viewers chance to learn more about the world as things go on. In fairness both examples (explain early or wait to explain) can work, but again, I don't feel this stops G5 standing on its own personally (again, respect if it doesn't for you.)

As someone who gave G5 more of a shot than it likely deserved, the main show suffered from amateurish writing (a lot of the episodes of chapter two were written very confusingly and unsatisfying) and a lack of time to develop characters. Misty was a great addition to the cast but I feel the main cast felt underdeveloped as a result. They needed more time, less of a focus on grand, sweeping adventures, and just to take a step back. Sunny is boring as tar in MYM, when she was the main character in ANG, and they should have maybe spent a chapter focusing more solely on her struggles as a new princess or alicorn or whatever that status even means for her. They should have focused on developing those folks before giving us this big baddie they have to face off. The character development was lacking and it makes it hard to care for characters at all. I thought them sidelining Sprout was a mistake and was fully expecting them to develop him more as a redeemed character throughout the season. I think that would have made for a better season one conflict and kept their world fairly limited to the scope of the movie, and THEN open season 2 with Misty & Opaline.

I guess we just had different views on G5, which again I respect, and I do agree with you in some places, but admittedly disagree in other places - you found Sunny a boring character, which is fine, but I personally did not; I found her a character that I enjoyed following, and sympathized with when she wasn't "understood" as herself - I get they could do more with her, but when I saw her and she got the spotlight, I loved how she was used, but if you didn't, I respect that.

I agree about G5 needing "more time" - I have seen complaints from both people who think that Make Your Mark took too long to be adventurous/storyline driven and was just the ponies "goofing", and complaints by those who felt that it focused too much on the the main story, and the ponies didn't take the time to have fun and "be friends" like the previous generations did.

I think the "Episode Format" didn't help the show, even though have a lot of love and nostalgia for Make Your Mark - it may have helped it to have the same episode format as FiM (and I'm not saying every generation has to be like G4 - all generation cartoons have had their own format, and the closest to FiM's was My Little Pony Tales by the look of things), as that would have given things more time, however you look at it.

Again, I love Make Your Mark, but a 26 Episode Season would have allowed side storylines, such as Sprout getting a redemption storyline (which I agree he should have, I even plan on writing said storyline for him), a few extra storylines for the Mane Five, and the actual "Mane Story" storylines we got (i.e. the Misty and Opaline stuff.) I personally don't think the former needed to wait for the second season (but again, respect if you did), but yeah, I can get the idea of there needing to be more focus on other stuff.

But I will again admit, that I love Make Your Mark for what it is, and can just "fill in the gaps" with my own stories. There was just something about it that resonated with me, and I felt like I grew up with it (which is often the case with me and MLP), but I respect your view, and I get that some of this is nostalgia talking, and respect that you felt different, but that's my basic view on it. I hope that's okay.

I would be curious to know how well the G5 electronic media are doing.  I haven't been paying attention, because I found the toys so off-putting, and it seemed like they were targeting a younger audience with the show(s). 

Different people have different views, but I've seen a decent amount of fanart of G5, particularly Tell Your Tale, so G5 definitely has it's fans. I myself feel that Make Your Mark did beautifully. I'm only really focusing on what would likely be the older viewers, though - bronies or not (as I'm in that "circle" so to speak, I don't know how the actual target audience, i.e. kids, are doing with G5.)

I don't really get the vibe that the shows are made for a younger audience, though... at least, no younger than MLP already was (it that it basically seems to be the same "target wise" for me). No offense.

What I meant was that the toyline is extremely lackluster and basic in design, limited in range and also very overpriced for what you get imo. If these products don't sell, then it's safe to say that the driving marketing force (namely the tv show) lost its purpose.
The show may hold the interest of a certain audience, but if that audience doesn't take the next step to shell out money for the related products, it Missed its Mark, pun intended.

EDIT: But maybe we are wrong, because we have a different take on what "G5" constitutes. The people that were around before G4 think of the toyline as the main element of a generation, backed up by a show. I think it is safe to say that G4 started out with that same approach but maybe evolved away from that: IP popularity (through a show) first, then toys. And that mindset may have been carried over into G5, for Hasbro and the G4+ fans at least, while us longterm fans still keep the focus on the toys.

Hasbro's recent self definition as an "IP, games, toys-company in that order" certainly corroborates that.
I hope I made my point come across clear enough; english is still my 3rd language

I think I get what you mean. Thanks.

I get what you mean about the "change in focus" too. I'm somebody who ultimately started with G4, but my experience with the entire franchise has shown me that the toyline should be what takes priority from Hasbro and the like, despite the fact that I may think of the shows first (but I respect all of My Little Pony and get that it's a toyline first.) I do feel that (in my limited knowledge of the toylines of the later generations) that Hasbro likely needed to re-think how they do the toylines since 3.5. I mean, I started with G4, but I have more of a memory of the ponies in the G1-G3 toylines, despite never owning any of them, because they look so interesting to me...

The shows are generating interest - I'm seeing a lot of praise and fanart online (though I assume it is largely the brony fandom, though I hope the target audience  are getting their fill - especially Make Your Mark - that show screams "something to grow up with" in my opinion.) The problem is, Hasbro aren't bothering to promote it, as far as I can see.

Maybe it's different outside of the UK, but I haven't seen any promotion for either the toys or the cartoon - I don't know what their problem with the cartoon is (but, I don't think Hasbro have known what to do with the toys since G3.5) but I think with the show, it's because they think everybody is streaming, they don't need to promote it (like "everybody has Netflix" (which isn't the case), so they don't need to advertise it (but they do.)

As much as I think G4 deserves the praise it got, I can agree some of it (and even that it was pretty big "some") was due to timing - I maintain that every generation, deserves the praise G4 got, and feel that G4 only got the advantage due to timing. In terms of cartoons, G4 felt like a combination of the previous generations to me, at least in the early seasons, so I can see any of them being given the (good side of) the "Brony Treatment" if they had been the generation to be released at that time.

For G5... I still maintain that it stands on its own hooves, with or without G4. It just feels like a bonus to me that it connects to (what I still maintain to be) its own take on G4. I get that it's a new idea to tie a generation into a previous generation, but I think they did it fine - they didn't over rely on it, and they did their own thing, but I also feel they honored it beautifully. It wasn't needed, but they're doing good with it so far, IMO.

But yeah, G5 is ultimately it's own generation, even with the connection to G4, IMO.

To be honest, all generations so far have been instant classics in my opinion. I know I can't speak for everybody, but, that's how I feel about them.