The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => MLP Nirvana => Topic started by: Mami Tomoe on November 08, 2017, 09:14:20 AM
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Is reverse gusty a nirvana
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I can't answer that question, but...
I have to say, I *love* the "Rusty" name for Reverse-Gusty!!
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Yes she is. I have the confirned one found by Wolfchick all those years ago.
There is an informative thread about her here.
http://mlparena.com/index.php?topic=377973.30
Shes most likely a Scandinavian prototype so yes she is a nirvana. .
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there are so many rare ponies
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We have no real idea who/what/why she was made or what she truly is and we may never know.
She is currently under the nirvana umbrella even though she is marked Hong Kong under her feet.
Love pkw xxx
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This is true but we have done extensive comparisions and if i were a betting woman id wager she was prototyped for the fairy tale scandinavian line. ;)
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That thread is extremely informative and interesting. I don't know much about Nirvanas, so it's p jaw-dropping to see some of you guys so dedicated to being able to figure out what's real, what's fake, what's a prototype, what's a variant, etc.
It's a shame all the pics in that thread are dead links now tho.
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That thread is extremely informative and interesting. I don't know much about Nirvanas, so it's p jaw-dropping to see some of you guys so dedicated to being able to figure out what's real, what's fake, what's a prototype, what's a variant, etc.
It's a shame all the pics in that thread are dead links now tho.
It is a real shame :( sadly Photobucket no longer allows third party hosting, so many images have lost -_-
Love pkw xxx
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This is true but we have done extensive comparisions and if i were a betting woman id wager she was prototyped for the fairy tale scandinavian line. ;)
As you guys know, I'm a well entrenched cynic for the Reverse Gusty (I also love Rusty as a name for her!) thing, but I do believe the one you guys are talking about is probably the real deal. Just we know that a lot of fakes were made and sold so that every one that comes up, if it doesn't have a traceable record going back, it's worth treating with suspicion.
I think when we had that big discussion which I am too lazy to reread, it was noted that she had glitter symbols and green eyes. Scandinavian Gusty is the logical connection but as PKW said we still are always hypothesising. Whether a prototype or a batch of mishairing is unclear. I suspect there are only a couple of real ones and a lot of customs and forgeries which make it seem like there are a lot more. If there are only a couple then maybe they were prototypes for marketing or to send out to stores or whatever. It's interesting. I am still cynical of most every Reverse Gusty that comes up because of the past history of fraud relating to her - but I do accept there are at least one or two which are real and which we have probably gone as far as we can right now to explain.
MIND you, it's been 20 years for me with baby Susie, almost, and the catalogue Lady Pinwheel posted the other day blew that wide open because Susie's right there in that Hasbro catalogue from 92. So it's not impossible a similar thing doesn't exist for RG. We just haven't come across it yet.
Anyone with the Hasbro catalogue for any part of Scandinavia in 1986ish? ;) Worth a shot...
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That would be awesome if anyone had a scandinavian catalogue
There were originally two confirmed reverse gustys that were found in the late 1990s. The first confirmed one was found by wolfchick in a Uk pony lot. We know the uk was a dumping ground for prototypes so that may explain how she got there.
Wolfchick sold her to brickhaven who sold her to Stormy who sold her to
Sarahbee who sold her to me. So she has been extremely well documented and had some famous owners in the collecting world. I believe she was also shown at ponycon.
The second one was found in the late 90s as well by the delaneys. I believe a member here now owns her.
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That would be awesome if anyone had a scandinavian catalogue
There were originally two confirmed reverse gustys that were found in the late 1990s. The first confirmed one was found by wolfchick in a Uk pony lot. We know the uk was a dumping ground for prototypes so that may explain how she got there.
Wolfchick sold her to brickhaven who sold her to Stormy who sold her to
Sarahbee who sold her to me. So she has been extremely well documented and had some famous owners in the collecting world. I believe she was also shown at ponycon.
The second one was found in the late 90s as well by the delaneys. I believe a member here now owns her.
Yep. Those are the two I'm talking about.
The UK isn't a dumping ground for prototypes at all, only for UK related ponies like Susie or the Schooltime ponies. We didn't have that Gusty here, so normally there wouldn't be a connection. But with Scandinavia there is a special circumstance. It seems as though a lot of Scandianavian early release ponies, including Scandi Gusty and associates, were released in UK packages marked Hasbro UK and in English. There are a lot of examples of this happening, so it seems possible that a lot of these were packaged and promoted from the UK and shipped there for whatever reason afterwards. That would be my best guess for how Rusty Gusty ended up here in the first place.
Unfortunately all the fraudulent activity blurs the issue and means we may never really know how many there were/are and what their provenance really is.
US prototypes (like the Bluebelle with CC's symbol) turn up in the US, mostly around Rhode Island.
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I've got the one that was owned by the Delaneys. I can't remember the chain of ownership; I would need to look it up. I remember I bought her from someone whose Ebay name was/is browncatpurrs. She was also a member here, though I can't think of her Arena name right now. Ummm, I think she's in Australia or New Zealand. (It's been a few years since the sale; my memory is fuzzy.)
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I've got the one that was owned by the Delaneys. I can't remember the chain of ownership; I would need to look it up. I remember I bought her from someone whose Ebay name was/is browncatpurrs. She was also a member here, though I can't think of her Arena name right now. Ummm, I think she's in Australia or New Zealand. (It's been a few years since the sale; my memory is fuzzy.)
Satin Slipper me thinks?
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Hmm, no, I don't think that was it, but thanks for trying to help me remember!
There was one other owner in the chain. This person bought my Rusty from the Delaneys, but didn't keep her for very long, just a few months I think. Then browncatpurrs bought her, and eventually sold her to me.
Hmm, I guess Satin Slipper could be the other link in the chain I just mentioned. I really need lto dig this up before the info gets lost to time, don't I?
EDIT: OK, I got off my lazy/tired butt to quickly check my email records. I bought my Rusty in 2013. The seller's real name is Terrie; she posted a PC here at the time. Here's the chain of ownership: Apparently found in a UK market, sold to the Delaneys, then to Wildfire, then to browncatpurrs/Terrie/Arenaname??, then to me.
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Hmm, no, I don't think that was it, but thanks for trying to help me remember!
There was one other owner in the chain. This person bought my Rusty from the Delaneys, but didn't keep her for very long, just a few months I think. Then browncatpurrs bought her, and eventually sold her to me.
Hmm, I guess Satin Slipper could be the other link in the chain I just mentioned. I really need lto dig this up before the info gets lost to time, don't I?
EDIT: OK, I got off my lazy/tired butt to quickly check my email records. I bought my Rusty in 2013. The seller's real name is Terrie; she posted a PC here at the time. Here's the chain of ownership: Apparently found in a UK market, sold to the Delaneys, then to Wildfire, then to browncatpurrs/Terrie/Arenaname??, then to me.
This sound familiar to me :)
I *think* BabyDoll has a Reverse Gusty as well.....
I do indeed remember seeing the Reverse Gusty at PonyCon in Nottingham, I popped her head off and looked inside too :p It was great to actually see her, so often we only get to work with pictures when it comes to rare ponies.
Taffeta is right that the fakes really ruined that pony and have made it so much harder to trace her identity.
Going OT: Ember1 were you ever able to track down the source of the CP Sundance catalogue image or any other information about it? :) As in which catalogue did it came from? ;) I recall one of you friends, who collect dolls, found the image on a dolly forum/website.
Love pkw xxx
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I know several arena members have reverse gusty. Yes babydoll has one too.
I just know of the original two confirmed ones were wolfchick and delaneys. and then there are like 3 others that members have found. So maybe 5 total on the arena.
Still waiting to hear back from that catalogue collector PKW
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I had a look and BabyDoll does indeed have a reverse Gusty ^.^ she got her in a lot off UK eBay accordingly to the thread I found. I know she wanted to have her authenticated some how.
Sadly the pictures in the various threads on Reverse Gusty are no longer working :(
Hopefully you'll hear back at some point or perhaps the catalogue will appear somewhere else :)
Love pkw xxx
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Terrie is 100% Satinslipper/browncatpurrs. She's awesome. :)
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Yes ive seen babydolls reverse gusty. We have done comparisons on the weave.
The only difference between hers and my confirmed one is that hers is missing the factory glue on the weave.
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Well remembered Skeen :bigups:
Ember1 yes in the thread I found Babydoll mentioned the lack of glue on the mane weave :) I remember there were loads of pictures of Reverse Gusty and Babydoll's Reverse Gusty, but the images are now gone :( I recall you both comparing hair/length/texture and such.
I know the Reverse Gusty in the nirvana gallery is now with you Ember1 :bigups: I'm thinking it might be nice to put a few extra details in the description, such as her eye colour and symbols being like Scandinavia Gusty :) sounds small, but it might not be obvious to someone just browsing the gallery that it's not just her hair colour that is different ^.^
Love pkw xxx
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Her symbols are not like scandinavian gusty in shape. Her stems have an arced curve where scandi gustys are usually straight. I remember we did the photo comparisons in the old thread. However the symbol color looks to be a dead match to scandi gusty.
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Her symbols are not like scandinavian gusty in shape. Her stems have an arced curve where scandi gustys are usually straight. I remember we did the photo comparisons in the old thread. However the symbol color looks to be a dead match to scandi gusty.
Duly noted ^.^ I have amended the information in the nirvana gallery. If I had been thinking at the time I should have asked for extra images for the gallery.
There were plenty pictures in that thread of all sorts of comparisons. Sadly the pictures can no longer be viewed as they are/were hosted on Photobucket. Since July 2017 Photobucket no longer allows third party hosting, so many of the pictures in that thread and else where are no longer visible/available :(
Love pkw xxx
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Pinkittywinks the original reverse gusty found in 1997 was found by Wokfchick. Wolfchick sold her to Brickhaven, who sold to stormy whi aold to Sarah bee who sold to me. I believe the gallery ststes that brickhaven originally found her.
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Ember - I wonder, if you have a moment, it would be really interesting to see a detailed symbol shot of Rusty G. I don't have a Scandinavian Gusty yet but it would be interesting to see if her symbol more resembles the US release. She was obviously created before Scandinavian Gusty was released, so I wonder if they used the US as a basis, and if the US glitter print and the Scandinavian ones are different or if it's down to batch.
I did see SarahBee's RG which I think is the one you have at Ponycon a few years back, but I can't seem to find the photos of her that I took right now.
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We did the comparisons in that old post but the photos are gone.
We compared US gusty UK gusty scandi and reverse gusty symbols.
The reverse gusty had delecate symbols with curved stems but matched color and glitter wise to Scandi gusty. Uk US and scandi gustys had straight thicker stems.
Ill reshoot her symbol to show this. I believe i still have some of the photos. Babydoll had posted a good one comparing all 4 gustys.
Anyone know how to post a photo on here now that photobucket is
Not an option?
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We did the comparisons in that old post but the photos are gone.
We compared US gusty UK gusty scandi and reverse gusty symbols.
The reverse gusty had delecate symbols with curved stems but matched color and glitter wise to Scandi gusty. Uk US and scandi gustys had straight thicker stems.
Ill reshoot her symbol to show this. I believe i still have some of the photos. Babydoll had posted a good one comparing all 4 gustys.
Anyone know how to post a photo on here now that photobucket is
Not an option?
Thanks, That'd be great :) If you can't figure out a free hosting site, you can always email the picture to me and I'll host it on my server for you. I'm just interested in these tiny little details. It's like steps in the Gusty design process from one version to another.
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I'm fairly sure Babydoll's one is also real - I still have the original photo from the ebay auction saved. It was an unmarked auction on ebay UK and the seller had a bunch of ponies up but knew little about them.
Sadly the run of fakes way back has made it difficult to tell with these gals :/
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Yes i agree. I think babydolls is real too but i am still stumped as to why she doesnt have factory glued weave inside her head.
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Yes i agree. I think babydolls is real too but i am still stumped as to why she doesnt have factory glued weave inside her head.
Earlier step in production, perhaps? Or just an oversight? Though unfortunately it's also possible someone made one and then the whole scandal came out and it ended up at a carboot sale where that seller got her. Since you have the record, LadyG, I suspect it came after and not before the RG thing first got talked about, so that possibility remains. Someone might have made a custom one and after the scandal with the frauds, decided not to keep it? Or it's one of those and was donated rather than kept? I don't know. It could as easily be real. Though honestly I would expect fakes to have aqua eyes.
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I had a fake one with green eyes. My old post showed the comparisons. She had a cherry treats color of red with an orangy overtone in her hair while the real reverse gusty has a red with a pinky overtone. The red is distinct and unique to reverse gusty so that may be one way to authenticate.
Real reverse gusty
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/00EE0B38-CA48-4794-8A5D-31C815DC39C5_zps49whj7ke.jpg
Symbol comparison. Fake on the left. Real on the right
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/ADD5F33F-9606-494B-889E-7E7A04120670_zpsijfknjh9.jpg
Real reverse gusty fsctory weave.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/B76ED4DF-4BC7-4D2A-A5C2-F3EAB99A2FDC_zpspscqgeep.jpg
Red haired tootsie hair comparison with reverse gusty.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/F049AF7E-2338-47C6-AF8E-8ECA5E119940_zpsbyarmewz.jpg
Hair comparison. Real reverse gusty on left. Fake reverse gusty on right.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/9644FC59-573A-42E0-BAF0-ACB5C001BD43_zpsvolfwxjf.jpg
Real reverse gusty has Darker green stripe.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/80753E3E-25BF-4EEA-9B0F-51BAF26CA5D0_zpso6hnfjmw.jpg
The real reverse gustys also have brown eyeliner which none of the fakes have.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/8C449171-46E4-4241-BA74-C4C37A6D7B0C_zpsqmpippp4.jpg
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Hrm. All very fascinating. THanks, Ember. I hadn't realised there were fakes with green eyes out there. That does make it more complicated. Unfortunately most of the images I can';t load, it's blocking me out with the pay for photobucket logo (which is silly, I'm just viewing them, sigh).
On the subject of black and brown eyeliner - this has come up a lot with the movie star ponies and especially Truly and Cupcake. Mostly it's believed that they always have brown eyeliner and any with black are fake, but I have a Truly with black and one with brown. I took the black one to Ponycon this year and PKW and LadyG both looked at it and both believe she's genuine and not a deflock. I know that there were lots of theories about where black and brown eyeliner ponies were sold with the movie star ponies but most of those don't end up proving a consistent pattern. There's always a MOC one to throw a spanner in the works.
It makes me wonder a bit more about these...whether there ever were any with black eyeliner...or not.
Because of the frauds that happened so publically so many years ago, I have always been really sceptical of Reverse Gusty except for the couple that have proper recorded pedigree (including yours). Now I wonder whether we've dismissed more as fakes than actually are because of these tiny details. I know that some had glue tested and stuff and some from one particular seller were fake. But what if they weren't a design prototype so much as a factory run of maybe 100 or 200 that were discarded because the hair colour was the wrong way around...? What if there *are* more than we thought, and the fakes and scam have just made us overly suspicious? I mean, if there are 3 and they have variations between those three...??
I don't really know right now how to think about this. It's become really interesting, but I have no real answers. I've never wanted a RG and I still feel that way...but the whole thing seems more complicated than we at first thought...
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I believe babydolls has brown eyeliner too.
I believe the symbols are a dead give away. They are
Different than the color of US UK and different in shape
Than US UK and Scandi gusty.
Also the tail washer and clamp in my fake gusty were large and the real reverse gusty had a small clamp and tail washer like US gusty.
I uploaded on another site. Try this link. Feel free to grab these photos and post them to the gallery.
Real Reverse gusty comparison pictures
https://imgur.com/gallery/QQHb7
Fake reverse gusty photos
https://imgur.com/gallery/oTrhD
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Thank you SO much Ember1 for those images :cheer:
Rusty will have her own album now like Painting Time, so all the information can be together in one place :bigups: I don't think anywhere has a comprehensive set of images like that.
I was going to suggest Imgur or Flickr as new hosting sites for your images. The clickable links still worked from Photobucket though :bigups: Personally I tried DropBox, but it wasn't straight forward to create a URL so you could insert an image. I then discovered that my cloud service allows me to third party host for free, so I use that :)
The images on your Photobucket aren't lost, you can still download them back onto your PC/Mac/Phone/whatever you use :)
Love pkw xxx
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Hair length was also a noticable difference between the fake and real reverse
Gusty. Check out this photo. Feel free to use this also.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
(http://s316.photobucket.com/user/lpponygirl/media/B389D0E1-AB55-4128-82AC-75221C50BD05_zpsczozhrqg.jpg.html)
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Photobucket won't let me see the image :(
I do remember the hair being longer on the fake though and you can just about see it on one of the side by side pictures, the real Gusty has shorter neater hair. The texture of the hair looks different as well. Real Gusty has much smoother hair, were as the fake has rougher looking hair and it is not just dry, the individual fibers look thicker and more rough.
You can very clearly see all the differences with the two Gustys (real and fake) next to each other. It is quite blatant!
Love pkw xxx
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Can you see this link?
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm341/lpponygirl/B389D0E1-AB55-4128-82AC-75221C50BD05_zpsczozhrqg.jpg
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It's not working for me :( I don't understand why as the other photobucket links earlier in this thread worked.
I'll try on my phone, just in case it works there.
Love pkw xxx
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Apparently this Chrome plug-in fixes the Photobucket-images-not-showing-up issue:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-embedded-imag/ogipgokcopooepeipngiikdkpmcpkaon
Haven't gotten round to trying it out myself but figured I might as well drop a link to it here, hopefully it'll help y'all :) I really hate how Photobucket screwed up their site...
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https://imgur.com/gallery/rW8PK
This link will work
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Yes, that one works :heart:
Love pkw xxx
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It is very blatant when compared like that. The hair doesn't look at all like Hasbro rooted it. It's too long and not the right texture for Gusty. I also see the issue with the symbol. Interesting. I can't load the others though :(
Looking at that symbol, I actually wonder if it's been reglittered over. It would make more sense for someone to take a common UK Gusty and remove the paint but glitter the leaves on based on how they looked before than it would to customise a Scandi. (Unless we know this one was made as a custom and not as a fake to pass off as real, in which case that's another matter).
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I've added all the pictures to the nirvana gallery ^.^
http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=473098
There are some Gusty comparisons here :)
http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=471367
http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=471369
Rusty and Scandinavian Gusty have a slightly short mane compared to US and Euro Gusty :)
Love pkw xxx
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The pictures are all in the gallery now taffetta. Take a look. ;)
And yes the fake i had was sold as real on ebay around 12 years ago
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The pictures are all in the gallery now taffetta. Take a look. ;)
And yes the fake i had was sold as real on ebay around 12 years ago
I managed to take a quick look last night. I can definitely see what you mean about the symbols. And it's good you have the provenance of the fake as an intentional fraud. Kind of sad though that it happened 12 years ago. The original scam was longer ago than that - I wonder if the one you have was one from that era that just stayed around or whether people were still faking them as late as 2006. If the latter it's going to make it increasingly difficult to establish how many of these there really were.
We don't have a catalogue for Rusty at the moment but if she's like Susie and co appear to be, it might be that a handful were made for toy fair promotion purposes for whatever reason.
One other thing occurred to me. So as you know, the UK didn't get the set with Powder etc, so didn't get Gusty until the movie star set. It's the only pony from the year 3 unicorn and peg set we got in any form, but there are still questions about what was meant to happen here given the amount of promotion. Maybe Rusty fits in in this gap zone. Maybe she was part of the project for the UK release in that year but because it didn't happen, we only have a few samples surviving. I am still convinced Gusty was not originally going to be part of the movie star set but that Ribbon was instead, because it's Ribbon on Megan and Sundance's card story and Ribbon illustrated with the set in the club stuff for 1987. I feel like Hasbro realised really late that they hadn't sold Gusty here and so hurriedly switched them over. It's also possible that Rusty happened in that time frame.
I obviously can't 100% prove Ribbon rather than Gusty was intended as the hasbro catalogue shows Gusty, not Ribbon. But I think there's more of a case for her than there is Lofty, even if there's less of one for her than Paradise.
I don't know with any of this for sure, but her relationship to Scandi Gusty probably puts her in the 1986 bracket...and the green eyes continued into 1987 for the movie stars.
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It's 1986 again!!!!
I was just looking through my Club membership stuff from 1986 and 1987. Lofty is shown on the 1987 calendar. There is Megan and Sundance on most of the stuff as well as the ponies from the 1986 My Little Pony set. I could only find Baby Ribbon on the certificate, I don't have everything though :)
Looking at Reverse Gusty she is a mix of features that would indicate what you suggest Taffeta.... 1986 again!
Love pkw xxx
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Gotta love 1986.
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Id agree with that time frame too. 1986 is a very probable year.
And the good news about all this analysis is that we can use it to disprove any of the fakes that surface. Most people use to think that a reverse gusty was just reversed hair factory error but we now know she is a distinct variant that had different shaped symbols and symbol color, brown eyeliner, a distinct texture, cut,color and length of pink red hair, small washer and clamp, and a dark green stripe. All of this would have been unknown to forgers at that time and i think it would be extremely hard to make a convincing forgery that has all these characteristics today.
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I do indeed remember seeing the Reverse Gusty at PonyCon in Nottingham, I popped her head off and looked inside too :p
:haha: :haha: :haha: this made me smile. Poor girl standing there minding her own business and someone comes and takes off her head
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I do indeed remember seeing the Reverse Gusty at PonyCon in Nottingham, I popped her head off and looked inside too :p
:haha: :haha: :haha: this made me smile. Poor girl standing there minding her own business and someone comes and takes off her head
I did ask before I did that!
Love pkw xxx
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I do indeed remember seeing the Reverse Gusty at PonyCon in Nottingham, I popped her head off and looked inside too :p
:haha: :haha: :haha: this made me smile. Poor girl standing there minding her own business and someone comes and takes off her head
I did ask before I did that!
Love pkw xxx
I guessed you would have it just cheared me right up reading it
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It was mine that you saw pinkittywinks. Sarahbee brought her to ponycon.
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I do indeed remember seeing the Reverse Gusty at PonyCon in Nottingham, I popped her head off and looked inside too :p
:haha: :haha: :haha: this made me smile. Poor girl standing there minding her own business and someone comes and takes off her head
I did ask before I did that!
Love pkw xxx
I guessed you would have it just cheared me right up reading it
Asked Gusty or asked her owner?
I saw her in Leicester I think? I can't remember if it was Leicester or Leeds now. Getting old. All blur into one big ponycon psychadelica after this amount of time. And yeah, if it was that one, it was the one Ember now has. I need to try and find my pictures of her too.
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I asked Sarah and Gusty :lol:
I *think* Sarah brought Rusty to Leicester :)
Love pkw xxx
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I asked Sarah and Gusty :lol:
I *think* Sarah brought Rusty to Leicester :)
Love pkw xxx
Whichever one it was, beddy bye eye Sundance was there too. I am pretty sure I saw the both of them in the same place.
Edit - yes, it was Leicester (2015). I have a lot more pics from that con than Leeds (at least, pony ones, lots from the armoury) and I have photos of both BBE Sundance and Rusty with Marco looming in the background xDDD
It was the year of the Thai Thundercloud and of squishing and bouncing Columbian babies in the Nirvana panel...
Unfortunately none of my images will add anything to the detailed ones you already have for the Gallery.