The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: HorsingAround on May 28, 2016, 03:54:37 AM
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I sold a German Moonstone on eBay to a buyer in Italy. She wrote me last night stating that she is very dissatisfied with the pony as it has 6 pin-dot cancer spots, when she anticipated there only being 4 and she believes the pony is overall slightly faded in color.
Her ONLY options to resolve this problem include issuing her a 70% partial refund and she'll keep the pony. OR issue her a full refund and I'M TO PAY the return shipping fee from Italy.
I am perfectly fine with issuing her a refund for the pony but I don't think I should have to pay the return shipping charge as I in no way misrepresented the pony. I took 12 clear as day pictures of Moonstone in artificial and natural light! I never counted the age spots on her but stated in the description that she has pin-dot age spots. I NEVER alter or enhance the pics I take in any way; what you see is definitely what you get. I was not trying to be deceptive or swindle her! I have perfect feedback which I'm afraid may be tarnished after this sale. :(
My response to the buyer (which I admit in hindsight, might sound a bit on the harsh side but I was upset! Lol)
I am very sorry that you are dissatisfied with your pony. I am of course happy to issue you a refund for Moonstone but I do not feel as though I am responsible for return shipping charges as I did not misrepresent the item. I did not specify the number of age spots on the pony as I never counted them, nor did I state the number in the listing. I only mentioned that the pony has age spots. You could have asked questions prior to making the purchase. I do not believe the pony to be faded. I took 12 clear pictures of the pony in both natural light and in artificial light and the pictures are in no way enhanced.
It is probably best to handle this through the resolution center.
Again, I do apologize that you are disappointed. I have over 600 positive feedback and really do strive to be an honest seller.
Thoughts, opinions? as a seller would you swallow the cost of having the pony shipped on your dime to please the buyer?
Thanks for reading my super long post! :)
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pretty sure that ebays policy on returns is that the person wanting the refund HAS TO pay the shipping.
not the seller.
if it were me , I'd tell her stiff biscuits and if shes leaves you a negative I think you can contest it?
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I honestly don't think your response was out of line or too upset sounding at all! I also think her terms were bogus and you should go through eBay's resolution center if she's not happy. Most of us don't even ship to Italy. And maybe that's the nail in the coffin you need to not ship there either.
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Oh! I experienced something similar a while ago - where I was expected by eBay to pay return shipping. Turned out there is a setting you need to opt out.
https://www.ebay.com/rtn/Return/SellerRules?null (https://www.ebay.com/rtn/Return/SellerRules?null)
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If you go through the Ebay resolution centre, isn't there an option in that for Ebay to provide a shipping return label thingy to the buyer and then when it scans through the post as being delivered back with you then there's a refund process? I don't know how this works with ponies and not as described allegations - I had to do this once with a counterfeit game and that was how it worked out for me. Although in the end I pointed out to Ebay that returning a counterfeit game to a seller who was making a ton of sales of counterfeit games was perhaps not legally correct, and they agreed and just sent me a refund.
But I wonder if that were to be the case, a similar return label could resolve your problem?
70% seems mad to me though. If a buyer said that to me I'd assume negative intent rather than just dissatisfaction. It's very suspicious.
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If you go through the Ebay resolution centre, isn't there an option in that for Ebay to provide a shipping return label thingy to the buyer and then when it scans through the post as being delivered back with you then there's a refund process? I don't know how this works with ponies and not as described allegations - I had to do this once with a counterfeit game and that was how it worked out for me. Although in the end I pointed out to Ebay that returning a counterfeit game to a seller who was making a ton of sales of counterfeit games was perhaps not legally correct, and they agreed and just sent me a refund.
But I wonder if that were to be the case, a similar return label could resolve your problem?
70% seems mad to me though. If a buyer said that to me I'd assume negative intent rather than just dissatisfaction. It's very suspicious.
There's some fine print somewhere that if a seller sends you a counterfeit item, it's up to eBay's discretion that you either a) send it to eBay & get a full refund or b) keep it with the understanding that you will destroy it and get a full refund. It's odd that they originally wanted you to send it back to the seller. Now that I'm looking for the policy, I can't find it (of course)
Under eBay's Money Back Guarantee (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html), seller is responsible for return shipping (but NOT any customs or duty fees). The "MBG" takes precedence over an individual seller's return policy IF the following conditions apply:
>An item isn't received or it isn't as described in the listing.
>A buyer reports that they didn't receive an item or requests a return within the eBay Money Back Guarantee timelines.
>The buyer made the purchase on eBay.com via checkout or an eBay invoice with one of the following payment methods:
PayPal
PayPal Credit
Credit card or debit card
>The item was paid for in a single payment (including payments with PayPal Credit).
Soooo, that's pretty much everything other than buyer's remorse.
Horsing Around, from what you described, your auction clearly stated the correct condition of the pony. Have the buyer go through the Resolution Center. Request that she send pictures of the pony through the Resolution Center. Chances are they will exactly match what you posted and will prove that she rec'd a pony that was exactly as described. Have eBay step in - they may just rule the case in your favor (they don't side with the buyer ALL of the time)!
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Sounds like a scammer to me. 4 pin-dot spots are fine by her, but 6 are just too much and she wants 70% of the price back? Yeeeeah, no.
Personally I would list her eBay name and see if she "just happened" to have done the same thing to other Arena sellers on eBay.
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Horsing Around, from what you described, your auction clearly stated the correct condition of the pony. Have the buyer go through the Resolution Center. Request that she send pictures of the pony through the Resolution Center. Chances are they will exactly match what you posted and will prove that she rec'd a pony that was exactly as described. Have eBay step in - they may just rule the case in your favor (they don't side with the buyer ALL of the time)!
This :nod: she wants 70% refund and to keep the pony? for 2 extra dots where age spots were already mentioned in the listing but there weren't a specific number mentioned anyways? yeah , no! I'd let it go to ebay to resolve.
I don't think your message was harsh TBH :awake:
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This sounds very similar to the situation that my friend was in with hers and with a buyer from italy as well, if you don't mind, can you pm me the name of the buyer so I can check with my friend? If there is a pattern I'm thinking that it should be noted possibly.
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I appreciate all of your responses! I'm glad to hear that I wasn't completely out of line with how I was handled the situation. :)
I finally heard back from the buyer in response to that e-mail I sent. She has lowered her requested partial refund to $10 and said that if I do not agree to this refund, then she is afraid that she will have no choice but to "ruin my seller's account". Then she proceeded to tell me that she can take a picture to attest to the extra two pindots which is the reason for the requested refund.
I'm tempted to fight this just based on principle alone. :rant: Again, I do not believe she received a misrepresented pony and I never denied there being 6 age spots. I'm put off by the way she has gone about this refund and I do not like the fact that she is threatening to tarnish my seller's account. That being said, I really do feel badly that she is not happy with the pony and that her expectations were not met. :(
I think the resolution center would side with me but ultimately I don't know if it is worth it (time to fight it, her leaving me negative feedback, and me having a very unhappy buyer). :huh:
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Agree, sounds like she is trying to scam you.
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Sounds like a scammer to me. 4 pin-dot spots are fine by her, but 6 are just too much and she wants 70% of the price back? Yeeeeah, no.
Personally I would list her eBay name and see if she "just happened" to have done the same thing to other Arena sellers on eBay.
I have to agree, it sounds like she's trying to scam you. $10 doesn't sound too bad, but that's probably what she's hoping you'll think. If she's doing this with other sellers, it may be worth it to take it to eBay. If nothing else, to put it on their radar and give her a mild scare. But I like to see scammers sweat ;)
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If she used that exact phrase, i think that counts for extortion under ebays rules, doesnt it?
Either way, I'd counter with something like: "I've been discussing the situation on a collectors forum, and everyone seems to agree that you are asking for a larger refund then is fair. I have not shared your name with them, even though there are several sellers asking for it."
It should make it clear to the buyer that two can play those games...*without* acrually saying anything you can get un trouble for by ebay. After all, you are specific in that you have Not shared the user name of the buyer, so they can't claim you are ruining their reputation...
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I'm just going to pop in to agree with lunar_scythe, I think what the buyer said counts as feedback extortion, so if she were to leave you bad feedback ebay would have remove it!
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I have to agree. sounds very unfair and blackmailish/extortion. shipping to italy anyway, boo.
4 is ok, 6 is too many and she wants $$ back? how about no. if the dots are so unacceptable and she wants to return the pony, she can send it back at her own cost.
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If she used that exact phrase, i think that counts for extortion under ebays rules, doesnt it?
Oooo yes, you're right! It's against eBay's rules to say "If you don't give me a partial refund, I'll leave you a negative."
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That is classic feedback extortion. I think it's time to stop trying to work it out with the buyer, and report her to ebay for feedback extortion. I wouldn't tell the buyer that you've been discussing it with anyone else. That's likely to cause a twitchy buyer to go totally crazy. Honestly, I don't think you'll get anywhere good trying to work this out with her at this point. Unless of course you want to see if you can get her to say anything else you could use as evidence since her "I'll ruin your seller's account" comment is a bit vague. It should be enough on its own though. Just let ebay know that she has threatened you unless you give her money. If she does give you a negative, and ebay does side with you about the feedback(as they should), they should remove it and block her from leaving you ANY feedback. They might even do something to the buyer as well, but I don't know how hard they come on a first time offender. If it's not her first time, she may eventually get booted from ebay.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html
I'd also add her to your blocked bidders list. I'm sure a lot of other sellers would love to add her to theirs as well.
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I would report her to ebay for feedback extortion
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This is the same buyer my friend is dealing with and they did the same thing to her. Threatened to leave bad feedback if she didn't send them money for shipping first even though they'd already opened a paypal claim, etc.
Post Merge: June 01, 2016, 10:07:55 AM
Here's the exact message, originally they wanted a $50.00 partial refund on a $90.00 pony. After my friend accepted the paypal solution of full refund with return of the pony, the buyer sent this message:
Hi,
Just wanted to noticed that Ebay decided me to return the pony to you.
I'm ok to do that, but as I already explaned, I need you to send me the shipping cost of $22 before I ship.
This because I have no guarantees that once you receive the pony back, you will add the $22 to the refund of my purchase, and I risk to remain uncovered of the shipping cost.
In case you will not allow the return, I can accept at least a partial refund of $20 of my purchase.
In case you will not do neither of these 2 options I will leave a very negative feedback to your seller account.
I will wait until tomorrow to take measures on you.
Please choose what you prefer do do and let me know.
Thanks.
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Such a shame, it seems she is extorting many people. She should DEFINITELY be reported and kicked off ebay...
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This is the same buyer my friend is dealing with and they did the same thing to her. Threatened to leave bad feedback if she didn't send them money for shipping first even though they'd already opened a paypal claim, etc.
Post Merge: June 01, 2016, 10:07:55 AM
Here's the exact message, originally they wanted a $50.00 partial refund on a $90.00 pony. After my friend accepted the paypal solution of full refund with return of the pony, the buyer sent this message:
Hi,
Just wanted to noticed that Ebay decided me to return the pony to you.
I'm ok to do that, but as I already explaned, I need you to send me the shipping cost of $22 before I ship.
This because I have no guarantees that once you receive the pony back, you will add the $22 to the refund of my purchase, and I risk to remain uncovered of the shipping cost.
In case you will not allow the return, I can accept at least a partial refund of $20 of my purchase.
In case you will not do neither of these 2 options I will leave a very negative feedback to your seller account.
I will wait until tomorrow to take measures on you.
Please choose what you prefer do do and let me know.
Thanks.
That is awful! Giggles, please tell your friend to report her for feedback extortion.
See, THIS is why sellers should be allowed to leave negative feedback on buyers! There is no way to leave a red flag for other sellers!
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Return shipping is the responsibility of the buyer unless the item is grossly misrepresented, right?
I agree, report her for fb extortion, block her, and post her name here so no one else has to deal with her.
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This buyer is just another reason why I am glad I don't ship to Italy. What a horrible person!
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Return shipping is the responsibility of the buyer unless the item is grossly misrepresented, right?
I agree, report her for fb extortion, block her, and post her name here so no one else has to deal with her.
Yes, please do post her ebay name- she is a menace.
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Unbelievable!!! Who knows how many sellers have fallen for her scam. :mad:
Is it okay to post her eBay username here or would that be inappropriate? I really don't want any other nice pony people getting scammed by this individual.
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At this point, I think A LOT of us would appreciate knowing what this person's Ebay ID is... :(
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And me.
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Yes, you can post her ebay name here so the rest of us can avoid her!
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Concur with cutting off all communication at this point and reporting directly to ebay - this is classic scamming behaviour, fear mongering and extortion. I wouldn't post their ebay username until this is resolved one way or the other officially - don't give them any ammunition. Wouldn't mention any outside forums either.
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Concur with cutting off all communication at this point and reporting directly to ebay - this is classic scamming behaviour, fear mongering and extortion. I wouldn't post their ebay username until this is resolved one way or the other officially - don't give them any ammunition. Wouldn't mention any outside forums either.
This is what I've been thinking as well and why I've been reluctant to disclose her username.
In response to the last message I received from her, I politely said that I think that it's best to proceed with putting this in the hands of the resolution center. I have yet to hear back from her.
I'm speculating that she may be trying to avoid opening a claim as she recently opened one against giggles friend. I imagine if there are multiple complaints coming in from one buyer that could be a red flag for eBay. However, if she is able to negotiate partial refunds from sellers without escalating things to the resolution center, then I'm thinking eBay would be none the wiser and this sort of behavior could go on indefinitely.
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I would report her right away - ebay wont take it lightly , feedback extortion is clearly against their rules. then once this is all sorted, please do post her ID especially since this is not a one-off case :(
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Whatever happened with your case on this? My friend finally has resolution just the last few days and Paypal denied the buyer's claim after they provided bad tracking twice.
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Whatever happened with your case on this? My friend finally has resolution just the last few days and Paypal denied the buyer's claim after they provided bad tracking twice.
I am ashamed to admit this but I issued her a 20% refund. There is no doubt I would have had eBay on my side in light of the circumstances but I honestly didn't have the energy to fight it. I'm aware of the fact that I got scammed and that by not taking action, sellers will unknowing face the same risk in dealing with this particular buyer. :(
If anyone wishes to know the eBay username of this buyer, feel free to PM me.
Thank you everyone who took the time to provide me with feedback in this matter. :)
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You can post the username here. :)
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You can post the username here. :)
this :nod: please do
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You can post the username here. :)
this :nod: please do
11vesper11
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Ah! Nice. This person is an Arena member: Mary82
http://mlparena.com/index.php?topic=354615.0
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I'd keep those emails and show them to eBay as well. Surely they have rules about harassing and threatening sellers and buyers.
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Ah! Nice. This person is an Arena member: Mary82
http://mlparena.com/index.php?topic=354615.0
Disturbing. She ONLY comes on the Arena to sell Nirvana ponies. I would keep an eye out to see if she sells yours.