Ember vs Star Dreams

[Mana Minori]

There are some who don't seems to like g4 baby Star Dreams due to her lack of a symbol, but there was another baby in g1, Ember, who was made without a symbol during each time she was released. I understand that given the fact that Ember was one of the first baby ponies, that not having a symbol was ok at the time, and perhaps not so for g4 babies, but I personally think having a lack of symbol makes Star Dreams just as special as Ember.

What do you guys think the reasoning could be for the symbol-less ponies? A special or rare pony breed that is unable to get symbols, even into adulthood? A genetic anomaly? A pony hybrid?  After all, we never saw baby Ember's mirror mother, nor do we learn of g4 Star Dream's parents, like we do the CMC or other g4 foals/ fillies (yes, even Scootaloo, since the chapter books confirms her parents).

I also find it rather interesting that Star Dreams's mane colors is a combination of all three Ember releases colors- Pink, Blue (Aqua), and Lavender.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Loa]

The Ember ponies were released as a special mail order, and then released with a symbol?

[scifipony]

I'm not sure why Ember didn't have a symbol, since I don't know very much about G1, but Star Dreams makes perfect sense. In the G4 cartoon, ponies aren't born with cutie marks, they earn them later in life. Since she's just a foal, she hasn't earned her cutie mark yet.

[Mana Minori]

I'm not sure why Ember didn't have a symbol, since I don't know very much about G1, but Star Dreams makes perfect sense. In the G4 cartoon, ponies aren't born with cutie marks, they earn them later in life. Since she's just a foal, she hasn't earned her cutie mark yet.

it seems like it could be the same for Ember, too. Since she didn't have a smbol befor re,  and suddenly had one at the time of "Ember's Dream" audio drama, possibly for her prophetic dream and trying to save the Rainbow ponies, but later could have rewarded with a symbol from the angel pony under the magic of the pink moon. That would be the closest explanation I could think of.

Post Merge: August 07, 2018, 01:00:29 AM

The Ember ponies were released as a special mail order, and then released with a symbol?

see above.

[Carrehz]

well, Star Dreams lacking a symbol makes sense, since the G4 ~lore~ is that they have to earn them, right?

As for Ember, who knows what Hasbro's logic was there. I just chalk it up to a case of "early installment weirdness", since she was the first baby pony and all. Although there is that UK Activity Club baby that's symbolless, too, and she was released much later.. but I think the idea with her was that her owner drew a symbol on themselves, maybe??

[Ponyfan]

I also feel like Ember was sort of the “experimental” baby pony since she was the first one. I don’t think Hasbro really knew what direction they wanted to go in with babies ponies yet so that’s why we have 4 Embers.  I think there’s a mail order pamphlet that calls Ember “My Beautiful Baby Pony” before Hasbro decided her name was Ember.


Ponyfan

[LadyMoondancer]

I wonder if they originally planned for her to have a symbol but then ran out of time?  Or maybe it was intentional and they just felt she didn't 'need' one.  Especially since the brochure for Ember doesn't even have a picture of her:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Incidentally, Ember was the inspiration for Apple Bloom . . . Not in terms of color, but in terms of not having a symbol (to start out with).  I think it's nice that it came full circle.

Now if we're talking about imagined "lore" reasons why Ember doesn't have a symbol, there's no "in universe explanation" but my personal headcanon is that baby ponies are either born symbol-less (like G4) or looking like clones of their parents (Baby Glory, etc).  But fortunately the ones who look like clones aren't stuck looking like that forever; when they reach a certain age their symbol fades away, they develop their own coat color, and then they gain a new symbol.

It's interesting how little Hasbro actually paid attention to symbols in G1, aside from the Magic Message ponies "touching their rumps" (that phrasing, lol) to summon birds or whatever.  BUT I do think that the scene with Ember and Twilight in RaMC was intended to imply that Ember would someday gain a symbol of her own.  They never say it outright, but to me Twilight's comment about "You'll grow up to be your own special little pony" implies that.

[KarentheUnicorn]

Edit (LOL): Lady Moondancer and I were apparently posting at the same time and thinking about the same thing. Great Minds think alike.

Baby Ember was the original 'first' baby pony ever released but she was also the first pony introduced in the mail order program.

I don't remember exactly but I believe the pamphlets in package first show up in 1983.

This means baby Ember would pre-date the TV special but I don't even think she was originally called Baby Ember at first, I believe some of the very first pamphlet I remember seeing for the mail order baby called her: 'My Beautiful Baby Pony' and you could get her in 3 different colors:

Blue (This is rarely ever mistaken for Aqua...it's blue), Lavender (which sometimes looked more like faded pink) and Pink.

I believe she was like, 5 horseshoe points and $1something for shipping. Then there are some pamphlets that call her Baby Ember so I guess Hasbro decided to give her a name. So originally Hasbro didn't even give her a name, let alone a symbol/cutiemark.

On a side note: I ordered the blue one.

These 3 versions were only offered through the mail order system.

The later, a store version that was sold, this version of Ember had a lavender body with lavender hair and a white star on her flank. She was sold with a cassette tape, Embers Dream. Again, the hair is lavender but the body is still that weird not quite lavender color.

Baby Ember seems to predate the TV special, even though she's featured in it. So in terms of the TV programs and who and why they don't have symbols/cutie marks. I don't know if I can qualify why as a toy she didn't have anything. As a toy it's the very first test of the mail order program and I'm sort of imagining they're testing the waters to see how this program would go and if it would work.

I don't know that they had in mind some elaborate born with it or not with the toy line. I'm sure some thinking when into it as they do show that in the TV special there is discussion between Baby Ember and Twilight on what she would be when she grew up. But they were not discussing her 'symbol/cutie mark'. Baby Ember was asking very innocent things, like wanting wings - which clearly has nothing to do with asking about her 'symbol' or if she'd have magic, but there seems to not be any mention of...HAY Twilight what will my cutie mark be.

The aspect of G1 is a little different in the toy line, we see newborn babies already have symbols.

If I'm going to try to apply the toy logic to the TV show then, Apparently G1 babies are more advanced than G4 (LOL).

I don't know that we can fully translate the TV show to the toyline, at least not in G1.

As I've said many times before, during G1 the cartoon was an accessory. You didn't have to have the cartoon to love the ponies. It's apparently the exact opposit for a lot of people into FIM, where they come by way of the cartoon exclusively, whereas in G1 a lot of us were into the toy and the TV show is there, but we don't automatically follow it like a religion.

[Sweet Daes]

Well, while the in-universe explanation of baby ponies is having a Mirror Mother (which I only learned of recently and seems...silly  xD ), there are still male/Mountain Boy/Big Brother ponies that have no explanation as to how they came into existence based on the canon that I am most familiar with. It seems that mating has the possibility of happening, so perhaps she is a natural-born? We have the family sets, but they have compatible symbols and are of the TaF variety, so perhaps Ember is the offspring between parents that have incompatible symbols that are pure, plain ponies?

I don't see why fantasy genetics couldn't have played a part considering we have Rainbow Ponies, Twinkle Eye, Flutters, etc etc that may have evolved over time into their own breeds from the basic (My Pretty) Pony.

[LadyMoondancer]

Don't forget the pregnant Mommy Pony and her two babies, Torpedo and Bombs Away.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


G1 was quite diverse in terms of pony reproduction!  And one point Baby Lucky draws a picture of baby ponies and they pop off the page and become Newborn Twins.  Well . . . okay then!

[tailrustedtealeaf]

Waiting for the reveal that in Ponyland, symbols are tattoos that a pony decides upon when they reach the age of 13 pony years. 
I think both are really cute!

[Leave a Whisper]

I don't particularly care much for the symbol-less Baby Embers either. But she did at some point get a star symbol. The Club Baby Pony is just eh.

The sea ponies are the only ones that mostly had no symbols. My guess is, they weren't sure where they could put them.

But Ember and Club Pony were the exceptions not the rules.

She was the first baby pony, so perhaps Hasbro hadn't thought that far ahead.

Lore wise, I head canon that Ember is part Bright Valley and part Dream Valley pony.  The Bright Valley group was more horselike in anatomy. Had mostly natural colors with a few outliers, and the colorful ones were hybrids, who had more Dream Valleyish anatomy, and their colorful coats were muted.

Most baby ponies don't have mirror mothers. Just a few sets and they aren't all completely identical to their mothers. Some have lighter hair, some are different species.

 Even the Loving Families have differences between each member and the foals have mixed traits of both.

Identical or very similar families are a common toy practice even today. Especially among animal toys. Most baby ponies were likely meant to be paired with whoever you wanted. Which is pretty cool.

[Ponyfan]

Sometimes I wish Hasbro had given us more info about Ember. I take Ember and Twilight's conversation as when Ember gets older/bigger  she'll find out what she can do that  most other ponies can't. G1 lore  seems to imply that each pony has a unique ability (although it can be shared by ponies of the same family) that other ponies can't do. Bowtie can jump farther than most other ponies, Moondancer and Baby Moondancer can glow in the dark, Blossom grows prettier flowers than any of the other ponies, Twilight can wink in and out and carry objects while doing so etc..

I think by the time we Hasbro had finalized the first set of baby ponies they decided to just go with most babies are born/come out of the mirror with symbols except for a few.

I have to admit Ember's Dream Ember is soft of confusing to me. Is she supposed to be the same Ember as Mail Order Ember as far as G1 lore/canon goes or is she separate baby pony that is also named Ember.

"Hi, My name is Ember and this is my friend. Her name is also Ember and that is her friend. Her name is Ember too." 




Ponyfan

 


 

[Safflower]

I have to admit Ember's Dream Ember is soft of confusing to me. Is she supposed to be the same Ember as Mail Order Ember as far as G1 lore/canon goes or is she separate baby pony that is also named Ember.




Ponyfan

I think it's never said that they are the same character. Logically they would be different as they have different appearances and different lore surrounding them?

To me this means that Ember didn't earn a symbol since she is four different characters. Sometimes I think of her as two different characters as well. It's a bit complicated to make sense of. (Plus if she earned a symbol you would also have to explained why she changed colors, right?)

[LadyMoondancer]

A lot of the nebulousness comes back to this:

As I've said many times before, during G1 the cartoon was an accessory. You didn't have to have the cartoon to love the ponies.

The ponies sold without concrete lore, so Hasbro just never bothered with it.  (A big difference from G1 Transformers, where Hasbro literally went to Marvel comics to get them to write lore for them.  I do wonder what Marvel would have come up with if Hasbro had done the same for G1 MLP!)

The mirror clone story wasn't 'from' Hasbro, it was from a UK comic writer who decided to explain why there were identical babies running around their comic when there were zero boy ponies.  (The Big Brothers etc not having been released yet.)

The nice thing about not having a solid answer, though, is that everyone can make up their own explanation.