What do people find "girly" about My Little Pony? (please read first)

[NoPonySpecial]

  I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but horses and ponies themselves are usually considered to be more girlish than boyish. There's no big reason this should be, of course. I know a lot of girls who went through the "horsey phase," but why would only girls get those? And why aren't horses considered more manly, considering they were domesticated for farm work and for riding off into war?
 
  If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because every kid wants to be able to ride something, and that (this is a gross generalization) boys would flocks to cars - which one can just hop in and drive as recklessly as one wants  - and girls would chose horses - living creatures that need to be nurtured and taken care of. Again we see the aspect of care and even mothering that was discussed before.
 
 Personally I think girls are naturally more inclined to be nurturing than boys are, but this is not true of every child, and even then it's not a rule or anything, and it's a shame people try to push the idea that boys and girls have to be a certain way.

[MJNSEIFER]

Thanks for all the responses everyone, I hope that you were all okay with the thread.

For me, I don't find My Little Pony...any gen...particularly "girly". Feminine, yes, but I don't consider girly and feminine to be the same thing.

To me girly is the stereotypical "pinkboycrazypopulargirlteenager" nonsense that people assume anything aimed at females is....but traditionally feminine things can be liked by anyone, just like traditionally masculine things can be.

Just because pastels, love, friendship and magic have been aimed primarily at girls doesn't make them bad, and to me the term "girly" always seemed bad. Sort of in the way someone would say to a baseball player that he "throws like a girl."

.....This doesn't really make a lot of sense, does it. Haha.

It does make sense actually, that's a very well written way of saying it.

I think that this is a very complex subject and there isn't  a simple answer.  But if I had to put it down to 3 things, these would be the 3 things I would guess.

1)  Brushable hair- stereotypically girls like to do their hair more than boys.  I can not think of a single toy in the boy's toy section that has brushable hair.  In fact the only toy I can think of seeing in the boys section that does not have molded hair is Jesse from Toy Story.  And you'll notice that her hair is "pre-styled" to look just like the character in the movies.  I also find it interesting that there was never so much of a call for "show accurate" characters until the fan base had such a large influx of male fans.

I can sought of see what you mean on this one, while I myself would have loved to have grown up with the brushable ponies (though I probably wouldn't style them, unless it was part of the "storyline" I was doing.) it's probably the only hairstyle toy I would have probably bought, so while I never thought of it as girly before, I can see what you mean now that you pointed it out. 

The only good thing about not growing up with the brushable ponies is that I never ruined one of them.  I'm sure I had one toy with brushable hair (not a pony) that I ended up giving a haircut because it went with the "storyline" somehow (just basically making it more realistic, I guess) and I decided I didn't like her like that, and of course couldn't do anything about it (unless I'm imagining this memory?)

2) Colors-  Girls/women are allowed a much wider range of color choices than boys/men.  Of course, there is the occasional guy who is comfortable in pink or purple.  But most men I know will only wear a limited number of colors.  You can even see it reflected in FIM itself.  Most of the male characters are white/grey/brown/blue with the occasional red or orange thrown in.  Even on a female oriented show about brightly colored ponies, the boys are very limited in color.

Now this is something I never thought of at all, even though I always knew about (but don't agree with) the whole "blue for boys, and pink for girls" thing; I never realized that other boys/men prefered more limited colors than girls.  I've loved things more colorful myself, so thanks for pointing this out.  Also, I am one of those guys who is "comfortable in pink and purple" in fact they're the colors I feel the most comfortable in.

3) Conflict resolution-  women are seen as being stronger on the interpersonal front.  It seems that any story line that can be resolved by "getting to know yourself" or "talk it out and hug" is deemed feminine.  Stereotypically, if two males are in a disagreement, they fight it out, sometimes physically, and then slap each others back to make up.  In addition, again stereotypically, guys would rather fight an outside enemy than sit and discuss their feelings.  As a result, a storyline with villains would be more stereotypically masculine than a storyline with no discernable villain or something to "fight."

Another thing that makes sense when it's pointed out to me, but I would never have really thought of myself at the end of the day.

These are just my initial thoughts,  I'm sure this kind of discussion could go on, and on, and on.....

Thanks for them, I hope that I didn't sound argumentitive when I pointed out that I never really noticed them, and that I still won't at the end of the day; it's the same as how I know that pink is seen as a girly color (though ironically blue was supposed to be the girly one of the two - Google it.) to me it is just a color, so I will never view these as girly things, but I am thankful to your response as it explains why other people do, if that makes sense.

Also the presence of songs.  Although some "gender neutral" shows like Phineas & Ferb now have song sequences, songs in Saturday morning cartoons are definitely associated with "girls programming".  Especially in the 80s.  If it had songs and it was for girls.  (Except for animated MOVIES like Disney flicks.  Go figure, right?)

I suggest you track down the book "Sold Separately" from Amazon, it analyzes the differences in how girls' programming and advertisements differed from boys' programming and advertisements.

The book was written in the early 90s, so it doesn't have anything super recent in it, but it is interesting and does analyze the plots of two "MLP & Friends" shows.

Another one that never occured to me (see why I posted this thread now?) for the most part I always loved it when a song was used in a show (I've always viewed music to be an important part of my life, hence why I like more songs than most people seem to), though on TV it seems to be how the songs used that determines if I like it or not, as well as how it sounds (I'll stop here, going off topic).  I will think about the book, thanks for telling me about it.

And you will notice that Disney in the past couple of decades does heavily lean   towards girly/princess and that the characters most often actually sing the songs.  On the other hand, Pixar, both before and after being acquired by Disney, leans to the masculine.  Songs are fewer and usually the character does not actually sing the song so much as the song is played over the action.

My reply to this is kind of irrelovent (as side from the fact that I'm okay with both versions) but I have three songs planned in my project (real songs, so there's a chance it won't happen sadly - one of them means a lot to me), two of which are played during the action, but one is actually sung by two of the ponies... sorry to mention it, it just reminded me of it.

I think it's great that you don't really see gender when you look at MLP or other toys--I'd try to stay just the way you are!

I will.  Thanks.  I appreciate your response, a lot.

This is an interesting topic for me.  When I was very young, although I was female, I didn't like fashion dolls or baby dolls.  I liked Hot Wheels, tractors, airplanes, and stuffed animals.  This was a source of worry to my grandmother who wanted me to play with "girls' toys" but my parents didn't mind.

I loved My Little Pony the second I saw them.  I didn't find anything too overly feminine/girly about toy ponies.

You seem close to how I am, you just like things based on your opinion, not who they are targetted to (if I read that wrong I appologise)

Bonnie Zacherle has mentioned that she originally created My Little Pony to be a toy for children of either gender.

Oh, so Bonnie did say this after all?  I thought she did, but I have been corrected about it before...

I am honestly surprised we as a culture have not grown past this. 

As so am I, every single day.

I absolutely love and adore families that don't try to shove gender norms down their kids throats (be they boy or girl).

Should I ever have children, I am going to be like my parents, and if my daughter wants Hot Wheels and my son wants Barbie, I'm okay with that.

To both of these comments, that is the kind of parent I hope to be, I will allow my child to be a fan of and to have toys of whatever he or she likes.

My parents were not like this, hence why I missed out on collecting ponies in my past, and deeply regret it as I have said before, because I feel that I missed out on them, I really wish that I had been more assertive about it, and just got them, or explained to my parents why it shouldn't matter.

That is why if my son/daughter wants anything from something that the media and public view as something targeted towards the opposite gender, I will allow them to do so.  He/she may get back into whatever it was in the future, and regret never growing up with the toys like me.

I have a horrible experience that haunts me even today. In the G3 days (probably around 2005) I was cruising the toy aisle of Wal-mart looking for new G3's and it was about Halloween time. I suddenly heard a very young voice from the next aisle over, a little boy saying loudly that he wanted to be a Care Bear for Halloween. Then a very angry adult male voice told him that he couldn't be a Care Bear because that's "a cartoon for girls."   It was so disheartening to hear.

Awwww, it's a shame that some parents are like that, like I say it shouldn't be forced on children like that. 

It was nowhere near as bad as that, but either last year or early this year my cousin's son (what's the correct term?) picked something up at a sale (I think it was princess book) and my mother (not his, mine - it was a family outing) took it off him, and told him "you don't want that it's for girls".  It wasn't angry like the man you mentioned, and I don't think he minded (he didn't look like he was really bothered about what he'd picked up), but ultimately I think kids should be allowed to be fans of what they like, and shouldn't be told that something is "too girly/boyish" for them.

This is probably a long reply by now, so I'm going to make one more response and then take a break on this.  I will reply to the others when I can (including the G3 responses).

I had about 4 seriously lengthy eye watering wall-o-text paragraphs typed up to post but then changed my mind

I decided all I really wanted to say was this...What's wrong with something being girly? I think I missed the memo at the start of G4 which seems to have become popular and which pointed out it was lame or not cool for something to be either overtly feminine or to have an overriding girlish sentiment/core to it.

But for every reason typed here [and which Sunset put so eloquently] MLP = girly...and for me there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The only difference in the generations is a different age demographic and therefore the girlyness is presented in different ways.

These toys are not aimed at boys, they are not designed to be gender neutral but neither are they aimed at adults. These factors do not and should not stop us [or any little girl or any little boy] from enjoying them. Its just that I think if we appreciate them for what they are, then we need to appreciate their girlyness right alongside.

*skips out of thread in a cloud of pink glitter*

I find nothing wrong with the fact that it's a girl's show.  Like I said, this isn't some kind of "macho" thing where I don't want to admit that I like a girl's show.  I know I do, and don't mind it or find anything wrong with it, it's just that I was curious as to why others found it "girly" as opposed to just "for girls" because I've never looked at things like that.  I do not find anything bad about it being a girl's show.  It's hard to explain.

[Stormrave]

You're right.  I liked, what I liked, and my parents weren't obsessed with trying to make me conform to traditional gender roles.   If I wanted ponies, I could get ponies.  If I wanted Micro Machines, I could get Micro Machines.  If I wanted to watch Jem, I could watch Jem.  If I wanted to watch Transformers, I could watch Transformers.   That meant that as I got older, I didn't care so much if other kids "approved" of my likes.

I'd rather say that ponies are designed to appeal to girls, rather than that they are for girls, because there are clearly lots of boys/men who like MLP, particularly FIM, and every year there are more girls/women at TFCon, even though Transformers are designed to appeal to boys.

[Lyra]

Personally I think My Little Pony is extreeemely 'girly', and has always seemed so to me. 'When I say 'Girly', I mean what society defines as girly, and marketed to girls.

More recently, they are marketed more diversely, eg: to older collectors who like 'retro' - both male and female, and also ...not sure what to call it ...'scene' with hot topic stuff for the new series.

- Pony toys are very much like dolls because they have brushable hair, and are often sold with combs. A lot of focus is on hair styling and brushing

- CUTE and PRETTY

- Pink, purple, and GLITTER are prevalent

- There are Families, like babies, and brothers and sisters, 'play mummy and baby' (nurturing)

- Sets include 'nurturing' home living environments- kitchens, nurseries, gardens, bedrooms. Also nurturing away from home environments school, ballet school

- The whole thing of 'caring for ones appearance' stuff like dressing, hairdressing and decorating is general is also nurturing

- beautiful sparkly Princesses (personally I love that)

None of the things I listed above are typical features  of 'boy orientated toys' (Which is too bad, because a lot of these things are great. Overwhelming when it's an entire aisle and every toy ticks every feature, but great)

If a little boy is playing with a baby doll and feeding bottle, parents might snatch it away because of some kind of stupid homophobia, a worry that the behaviour is too effeminate! Nurturing - BAD?  But, boys grow up.  It's a common complaint to hear that ***SOME*** men (and women) are not interested in helping to raise their own kids!
(I'm not saying that toys one plays with as a child has any effect on ones actions as an adult, just commenting on something I see as one of the many weird and ironic problems with society)

Personally, I didn't particularly are for the 'caring for baby' type play when I was little, but if a child wants to , why would someone go and tell them that its bad?

Sorry bit of a rant there :/

There are always plush toys that both boys and girls are allowed to fuss over at a young age I guess

When I was a child all my peers were dinosaur obsessed...it was i]everyone[/i] The little girls I know now don't care for dinosaurs, I always find that sad. It's great that like dolls and ponies but surely your  bratz dolls could do with one dinosaur friend...

People have many examples of seeing parents tell their kids which toys are for who.  yesterday, I saw a little girl pick up a small Ben 10 toy (green egg thing, toy inside) the mother said NO...that is for boys! and pointed to the pink Hello Kitty one, and said she could have that instead
'grrr, if they cost the same and you're prepared to buy it, let her pick, you aren't going to be the one playing with it' - is what I said in my head

[cleverLC]

I've had Bronies, who just got into ponies thanks to FiM, express a preference for blindbag toys over brushables because they "don't know what to do with the hair."  Unsurprisingly as most of them didn't have toys with brushable hair when they were children.  Elfpony and I have been considering a con panel or some such on Displaying Toys with Brushable Hair....basically, the complete idiot's guide to restoring and styling toys with hair.

It's funny you say this--I used to hate combing my dolls' hair, because they "weren't Barbie" and I loathed everything Barbie.  I also slept with one of them regularly.  I'll let you imagine how horrible the hair was after 20 years of storage with ZERO combing-out.

[Dragonflitter]

I'd rather say that ponies are designed to appeal to girls rather than that they are for girls