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Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 02:16:39 PM

Title: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 02:16:39 PM
Soo... I spotted a G1 baby Applejack with yellow apples stamped Hong Kong on sale (before you get excited, the seller asks 200€ for her), and got curious as I had never seen this kind of variation. It seems any G1 info sites either don't acknowledge a variation like this! The colour does not imply certain fading: I found two images of a paler symbol baby Applejack, but the faded color was still obviously an orange. This is a bright yellow. The eyes are blue as well, wich might be fading or not, and the body tone is paler. Even if it is faded, she has a whole new color scheme compared to the original.
 I'm not planning on buying it or anything, I'm just very curious. Does anyone know more about this odd variant, if she is one? Where does it originate from or is it a factory error? Maybe fading, or maybe one of a kind oddity? Maybe even a very rare variant like the Thai Mountain boys?
 

 I can link the Instagram post if it is allowed later.
 https://www.instagram.com/p/BjkxDjRAQ39/
Here is the link, the pony is on the second image and forward. It is also sold by a long term collector wich, along with the symbols color and it being same color on both side and the bright blue eyes, makes me doubt it would be fading. The collector selling it has a huge collection, even mint on card nirvanas, so the person who came to conclusion it's a variant is a very experienced now former collector himself.
Edit: It might be fading or a variant. I would not close either chances.
Nonethless, it is a rather unique pony. I have not seen baby Applejacks with symbols that have faded to bright yellow instead of a more pale orange, AND eyes faded to a shade of turqoise AND a body faded to lighter tone.
Edit 2: after better images of the pony being added and long discussion, the possibilities are 60/50 on fading or error/variant.
Edit 3: If the images we are promised to get by monday don't change the direction of this mystery, she is almost certainly merely faded. A very beautifuly faded one, may I add.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on June 21, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
My guess would be fading.  I think you were wise not to pay 200 euros for her, LOL!  Instagram pics / links are allowed here. :)
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on June 21, 2018, 02:55:44 PM
Soo... I spotted a G1 baby Applejack with yellow apples stamped Hong Kong on sale (before you get excited, the seller asks 200€ for her), and got curious as I had never heard of this variation. It seems any G1 info sites either don't acknowledge she exists! I found two images of a paler symbol baby Applejack, but none of one with certainly yellow apples. Nothing at all.
 I'm not planning on buying it or anything, I'm just very curious. Does anyone know more about this odd variant? Where does it originate from or is it a factory error? Is this one of a kind even? Maybe a very rare variant like the Thai Mountain boys?
 The seller had comparison images, and  the yellow apple one was also more pale on body color and I think had blue eyes! How strange!
 I can link the Instagram post if it is allowed later.

Not strange at all, if the pony is faded from UV light.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 02:58:10 PM
My guess would be fading.  I think you were wise not to pay 200 euros for her, LOL!  Instagram pics / links are allowed here. :)

It's actualy definetly not fading. The pony has blue eyes as well if I'm not seeing things and the symbol is nowhere near orange + the symbols are in good condition. I already said in the post I am not going to buy her, I'm more of curious.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on June 21, 2018, 03:09:31 PM
Lots of Cotton Candys have blue eyes, despite being purple at the beginning. This has been confirmed to not be a variant (in most cases), and to instead be due to the behavior of the red pigment. Red is much more sensitive to UV light, so it breaks down very quickly. Yellow is not as sensitive, therefore the symbols look yellow without any damage or smudges to the paint.
I'm still inclined to believe it is due to fading for this reason, but I'd still love to see photos if you can provide them later.  :)
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 03:11:27 PM
Soo... I spotted a G1 baby Applejack with yellow apples stamped Hong Kong on sale (before you get excited, the seller asks 200€ for her), and got curious as I had never heard of this variation. It seems any G1 info sites either don't acknowledge she exists! I found two images of a paler symbol baby Applejack, but none of one with certainly yellow apples. Nothing at all.
 I'm not planning on buying it or anything, I'm just very curious. Does anyone know more about this odd variant? Where does it originate from or is it a factory error? Is this one of a kind even? Maybe a very rare variant like the Thai Mountain boys?
 The seller had comparison images, and  the yellow apple one was also more pale on body color and I think had blue eyes! How strange!
 I can link the Instagram post if it is allowed later.

Not strange at all, if the pony is faded from UV light.
I don't think uv light changes the eye color too.. with images I linked the difference is easier to understand. An age old custom on the other hand is a more possible normal explanation.

Post Merge: June 21, 2018, 03:14:56 PM

Lots of Cotton Candys have blue eyes, despite being purple at the beginning. This has been confirmed to not be a variant (in most cases), and to instead be due to the behavior of the red pigment. Red is much more sensitive to UV light, so it breaks down very quickly. Yellow is not as sensitive, therefore the symbols look yellow without any damage or smudges to the paint.
I'm still inclined to believe it is due to fading for this reason, but I'd still love to see photos if you can provide them later.  :)
I see! Thank you. :o In this case the eye colour change would be from darker green to dark turqoise, wich sounds odd to me.
I added a link, the symbols are bright yellow on both sides wich is a bit shady. Even if it is fading, I've never seen one with this obviously a whole other colour as the result.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on June 21, 2018, 03:25:12 PM
I see! Thank you. :o In this case the eye colour change would be from darker green to dark turqoise, wich sounds odd to me.
I added a link, the symbols are bright yellow on both sides wich is a bit shady. Even if it is fading, I've never seen one with this obviously a whole other colour as the result.
Checked out the photos, the lighting does make it harder to make out, but it does look very interesting! I've seen Baby Blossoms fade to complete white without any blotchiness or unevenness on the sides.
In spoiler:
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If she were left out or used primarily as an outdoor toy, that would explain why it's yellow on both. That would be cool if it were a new variant, still! Maybe there's a few others floating around to help explain this one.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 03:30:49 PM
I see! Thank you. :o In this case the eye colour change would be from darker green to dark turqoise, wich sounds odd to me.
I added a link, the symbols are bright yellow on both sides wich is a bit shady. Even if it is fading, I've never seen one with this obviously a whole other colour as the result.
Checked out the photos, the lighting does make it harder to make out, but it does look very interesting! I've seen Baby Blossoms fade to complete white without any blotchiness or unevenness on the sides.
In spoiler:
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If she were left out or used primarily as an outdoor toy, that would explain why it's yellow on both. That would be cool if it were a new variant, still! Maybe there's a few others floating around to help explain this one.
Thank you for providing images. :) I think the Blossom is more obviously still a Blossom and has hints of it's original shades.
The Applejack is a mystery indeed, sad that the seller does not have a very good english so I can't ask where did he get it from! It might be faded and it might be a variant, unique either way.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on June 21, 2018, 03:36:44 PM
She looks cute with the yellow apples for sure!  Golden delicious Applejack, ha ha.  I still think fading of the symbol due to UV rays (sunlight) is the cause.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 03:39:57 PM
She looks cute with the yellow apples for sure!  Golden delicious Applejack, ha ha.  I still think fading of the symbol due to UV rays (sunlight) is the cause.
It is definetly a possibility when you stare at the situation for a good hour. Especialy when regular Applejack seems to rarely have the same thing going on. :blink:
She could also be a very well made custom?
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 21, 2018, 03:50:32 PM
Hmm... Here is what I notice (without drawing conclusions for now).

Body
The body is slightly paler than a regular baby AJ. The head looks slightly darker but I'm not sure. Some parts of the vinyl are noticeably lighter than others, not caused by lighting, for example the pointy parts of the backs of the hind legs and other areas that would stick out.

Hair
Looks ordinary? Possibly slightly lighter, not sure.

Symbols
Of course, the apples are yellow. They look to be fairly pale, not saturated like the usual red, and don't have the sheen of regular G1 paint. Also, the paint looks fairly thin if I'm not mistaken. The green tops look more blue than regular. They almost have a white outline though I'm not sure.

Eyes
All looks right, except the color. The color of the eyes is more blue than green.

Overall, she looks slightly more banged up than the real one shown in the photos. Not too much of a difference though.

Now, there are many possible explanations, some more likely than others. For example, she could be a custom, she could be faded, she could be an error or a variant. For the custom possibility, we can probably rule that out as she wasn't sign or marked in any way that we can tell, and it looks like her symbols are factory because of the placement, size, and accuracy. It would be unlikely that she is a variant or error, as none others have been found or described or just talked about that at least I know of (but I haven't been in the pony community for that long!)

Now, the possibility of fading. Ponies have been known to fade evenly, like the Blossom tailrustedtealeaf showed. Some ponies can have just their paint fade, some just their symbols fade, and other things like this as you probably know :) It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for this Baby AJ to have faded. After all, her symbols had red, the color that fades the fastest, out of her symbols. If they were to fade, a light warm color would be left, which has happened. Her body and hair are also lighter than usual. Her eye color is a different color than usual. The paint has a different sheen. All of the observations I have made point to fading. I think it's safe to say that she is just faded ;) After all, fading is common ponies!

She looks very cute though! I'm tempted to make an OC or something inspired by her...
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 04:26:41 PM
Hmm... Here is what I notice (without drawing conclusions for now).

Body
The body is slightly paler than a regular baby AJ. The head looks slightly darker but I'm not sure. Some parts of the vinyl are noticeably lighter than others, not caused by lighting, for example the pointy parts of the backs of the hind legs and other areas that would stick out.

Hair
Looks ordinary? Possibly slightly lighter, not sure.

Symbols
Of course, the apples are yellow. They look to be fairly pale, not saturated like the usual red, and don't have the sheen of regular G1 paint. Also, the paint looks fairly thin if I'm not mistaken. The green tops look more blue than regular. They almost have a white outline though I'm not sure.

Eyes
All looks right, except the color. The color of the eyes is more blue than green.

Overall, she looks slightly more banged up than the real one shown in the photos. Not too much of a difference though.

Now, there are many possible explanations, some more likely than others. For example, she could be a custom, she could be faded, she could be an error or a variant. For the custom possibility, we can probably rule that out as she wasn't sign or marked in any way that we can tell, and it looks like her symbols are factory because of the placement, size, and accuracy. It would be unlikely that she is a variant or error, as none others have been found or described or just talked about that at least I know of (but I haven't been in the pony community for that long!)

Now, the possibility of fading. Ponies have been known to fade evenly, like the Blossom tailrustedtealeaf showed. Some ponies can have just their paint fade, some just their symbols fade, and other things like this as you probably know :) It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for this Baby AJ to have faded. After all, her symbols had red, the color that fades the fastest, out of her symbols. If they were to fade, a light warm color would be left, which has happened. Her body and hair are also lighter than usual. Her eye color is a different color than usual. The paint has a different sheen. All of the observations I have made point to fading. I think it's safe to say that she is just faded ;) After all, fading is common ponies!

She looks very cute though! I'm tempted to make an OC or something inspired by her...

I agree it's hard to tell if her body tone is smoothly the same or has different shades in head and body.
Thank you for notifying, I didn't notice these though!

Yep? The hair looks definetly normal. Then again, Applejacks hair tone is not the type to fade easily.

I noticed the outline too. The apples 'green' parts look the most likely to be simply faded, they might be just light green.

Yep. Though I think some faded Applejacks, adult and babies, have turqoise eyes?

True.

I agree with the all possibilities. While fading is the most common possibility, it rarely especialy on baby Applejacks reaches this point.
That is a good point! So custom is out.
Indeed, I have neither seen others like this mentioned. I haven't even seen this faded baby Applejacks surface, wich makes the situation a bit more complicated.

Actualy I haven't yet faced other than the usual body tones slight changes and the fading pink shades so I've never needed to research.
True indeed! Wich makes it kind of surprising other Baby Applejacks seem to have their symbols fade closer to their body tones color.
Fading is definetly a chance. But even for a merely flawed one, she looks surprisingly unique and beautifuly faded. :)  thank you for your opinion and careful examination on the case.

She is indeed cute!
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: ColdRuru on June 21, 2018, 04:39:54 PM
It's a french collector, I know her username from a french forum. I may ask in there if someone remember that particular baby if you want.

Edit: She speaked about her variant in the french forum and said she didn't think after close inspection it was a sunfade one because she firstly bet on this.
Here's the pictures she posted back in 2015 of "the pony"
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Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Taffeta on June 21, 2018, 05:25:17 PM
I've seen a lot of Baby AJs over the years and I have seen ones with faded or paler colouring, just like with adult. I don't know about this one, though. It is a bit more extreme.

I am...cautious to call it a variant, but not really willing to totally rule it out. I have a Baby Ember who is clearly lavender ember but is pretty much entirely greyI've also had Magic Stars with blue hair from sun fading as well. I don't like to put everything down to fading, but the eyes make me a bit uncomfortable.

The symbol would be more persuasive to me if the eyes were green still. Green fades to blue easily so that suggests her paler colours could be fading.

The one big difference between them is hair rooting which suggests they do belong to different batches. In which case, minor variations might have been accentuated by sunlight.

Baby Lemon Drop (Stroller version) comes in 2 variations re her symbol, lavender and a really dark reddish purple. I don't see why the same couldn't be true for Baby AJ.

My Baby AJ came to me from new but she sat on a shop shelf for ten years before I got her. Looking at her colouring in my photos, in my image her eyes look slightly less green than I remember them, but that could be the image. Which means it's hard to judge the colours from images on this as well.

The pony in ColdRuru's linked images also show her without a tail, and the original images show her with damage to one eye. That kind of implies a harder life (unless the tail was removed for cleaning) and a replacement tail possibly? Ponies who have wear also are more likely to show fading.

In any case, I think she's overpriced :/ There are few batch variations which fetch that kind of price difference o.O


Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: ColdRuru on June 21, 2018, 05:32:33 PM
She's got the matching Applejack : https://www.instagram.com/p/BixKrohg8Ed/?taken-by=lolipouxi_mlp as well.
For the price, I just take a look to her entire gallery and she's got ton of ponies, some are overpriced (to me) and some are ridiculously low priced (to me also) so it's the main problem with price: you never know. And also, it goes to the buyer to be ok with them in the end  ;)
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 21, 2018, 05:43:54 PM
Yeah, it's probably best not to completely rule out the possibility of variant or error, but it's unlikely. Especially since all of her seems to be lighter and no others have been spotted AFAIK. And there is a regular AJ with the same thing going on. I guess we really don't know... (I hope it's a variant though. that would be awesome!)

Also, I was thinking that if her eyes were still green, her head could've been switched, but thats a slim possibility... I don't think it's even a real possibility. Not to accuse anyone either!!!! Just a thought.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 21, 2018, 06:31:25 PM
It's a french collector, I know her username from a french forum. I may ask in there if someone remember that particular baby if you want.

Edit: She speaked about her variant in the french forum and said she didn't think after close inspection it was a sunfade one because she firstly bet on this.
Here's the pictures she posted back in 2015 of "the pony"
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Thank you very much for the information, very helpful!

Post Merge: June 21, 2018, 06:45:28 PM

I've seen a lot of Baby AJs over the years and I have seen ones with faded or paler colouring, just like with adult. I don't know about this one, though. It is a bit more extreme.

I am...cautious to call it a variant, but not really willing to totally rule it out. I have a Baby Ember who is clearly lavender ember but is pretty much entirely greyI've also had Magic Stars with blue hair from sun fading as well. I don't like to put everything down to fading, but the eyes make me a bit uncomfortable.

The symbol would be more persuasive to me if the eyes were green still. Green fades to blue easily so that suggests her paler colours could be fading.

The one big difference between them is hair rooting which suggests they do belong to different batches. In which case, minor variations might have been accentuated by sunlight.

Baby Lemon Drop (Stroller version) comes in 2 variations re her symbol, lavender and a really dark reddish purple. I don't see why the same couldn't be true for Baby AJ.

My Baby AJ came to me from new but she sat on a shop shelf for ten years before I got her. Looking at her colouring in my photos, in my image her eyes look slightly less green than I remember them, but that could be the image. Which means it's hard to judge the colours from images on this as well.

The pony in ColdRuru's linked images also show her without a tail, and the original images show her with damage to one eye. That kind of implies a harder life (unless the tail was removed for cleaning) and a replacement tail possibly? Ponies who have wear also are more likely to show fading.

In any case, I think she's overpriced :/ There are few batch variations which fetch that kind of price difference o.O

Definetly, understandable. Though right above you someone posted a comparison and comment made by the ponys owner himself, so definetly read it and analyze the images if you haven't already.

I have to agree with you? I would say it's 60/40 chances fading or error, now that we have the owners himselfs opinion on the topic.

Ah I see. Purple ponies turning to a shade of grey is a common flaw indeed.
I understand what you mean, some Applejacks seem to have eyes faded to blue. Also there seem to be yellow apple adult Applejacks too, those in atleast slightly bigger quantities, making them very possibly faded. But I have never seen this extreme changes with a baby Applejack.

I understand what you mean very well. Atleast we now have clearer images of the symbols and faces to compare!

Ooh I somehow missed that, I'm not experienced enough yet to actualy count plug rows and placements. Thank you for notifying.

I agree. And especialy with smaller countries having very varying runs on the ponies, certain nirvanas being the most extreme example, variations are even more possible.

I understand. :)

Those are good notings as well! It might be a mid process image or then she had arrived without a tail.

That is true. But it's common with sellers, with this one I noticed some ponies are far below their usual prices, some decently priced, and some a bit expensive.
Indeed!

Post Merge: June 21, 2018, 06:54:26 PM

Yeah, it's probably best not to completely rule out the possibility of variant or error, but it's unlikely. Especially since all of her seems to be lighter and no others have been spotted AFAIK. And there is a regular AJ with the same thing going on. I guess we really don't know... (I hope it's a variant though. that would be awesome!)

Also, I was thinking that if her eyes were still green, her head could've been switched, but thats a slim possibility... I don't think it's even a real possibility. Not to accuse anyone either!!!! Just a thought.

I truely agree. Though I think I saw somewhere on Google image search one or two more of the adult Applejacks with this going on? What is the most odd to me, is that if this is possible to happen by fading then how come this is the first baby AJ to emerge in this shape and color.

Honestly nothing is impossible with ponies! After all, we have nirvanas that have never even been found as other than once with a head different colour than the body, suggesting body swapping. The things these millions of ponies have encountered can be crazy. :D
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 21, 2018, 07:11:26 PM
Quote
Yeah, it's probably best not to completely rule out the possibility of variant or error, but it's unlikely. Especially since all of her seems to be lighter and no others have been spotted AFAIK. And there is a regular AJ with the same thing going on. I guess we really don't know... (I hope it's a variant though. that would be awesome!)

Also, I was thinking that if her eyes were still green, her head could've been switched, but thats a slim possibility... I don't think it's even a real possibility. Not to accuse anyone either!!!! Just a thought.

I truely agree. Though I think I saw somewhere on Google image search one or two more of the adult Applejacks with this going on? What is the most odd to me, is that if this is possible to happen by fading then how come this is the first baby AJ to emerge in this shape and color.

Honestly nothing is impossible with ponies! After all, we have nirvanas that have never even been found as other than once with a head different colour than the body, suggesting body swapping. The things these millions of ponies have encountered can be crazy. :D
Were the other AJs you saw different in appearance? If they were then fading would be VERY likely since different ponies fade differently. And I think there might be actual nirvanas with this AJ symbol coloring too.

There are probably very few AJs like this because this harsh of fading requires a lot of time and exposure.

Also, if she were to be a variant or error, we would know nothing about her apart from what she looks like, right? We really need more info darn it!

(Edited because I totally quoted correctly the first time.)
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Sawkinator on June 21, 2018, 07:17:31 PM
Lots of Cotton Candys have blue eyes, despite being purple at the beginning. This has been confirmed to not be a variant (in most cases), and to instead be due to the behavior of the red pigment. Red is much more sensitive to UV light, so it breaks down very quickly. Yellow is not as sensitive, therefore the symbols look yellow without any damage or smudges to the paint.
I'm still inclined to believe it is due to fading for this reason, but I'd still love to see photos if you can provide them later.  :)

The thing that makes me kinda skeptical that it's just fading is that the stems/leaves on the variant are blue. If they were originally 'normal', that would suggest the yellow pigment in the green stems has faded almost completely - yet the apples are still definitely yellow. Regular Applejack's apples are also pretty red, so I would think that if they were faded they'd be almost white.  :lol:

Maybe someone out there with a baity Baby Applejack should leave her out in the sun for a while and let us know what happens. :P
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 21, 2018, 07:58:02 PM
Lots of Cotton Candys have blue eyes, despite being purple at the beginning. This has been confirmed to not be a variant (in most cases), and to instead be due to the behavior of the red pigment. Red is much more sensitive to UV light, so it breaks down very quickly. Yellow is not as sensitive, therefore the symbols look yellow without any damage or smudges to the paint.
I'm still inclined to believe it is due to fading for this reason, but I'd still love to see photos if you can provide them later.  :)

The thing that makes me kinda skeptical that it's just fading is that the stems/leaves on the variant are blue. If they were originally 'normal', that would suggest the yellow pigment in the green stems has faded almost completely - yet the apples are still definitely yellow. Regular Applejack's apples are also pretty red, so I would think that if they were faded they'd be almost white.  :lol:

Maybe someone out there with a baity Baby Applejack should leave her out in the sun for a while and let us know what happens. :P
Well, both colors are going to fade. They are different colors so they'll fade differently. I think this is how it fades: In the red in her symbols, the red is going to fade quickly, leaving a pale yellow color. I also want to point out that her red apples do have a bit of yellow in them, that shade isn't a perfect primary red. Now, the green leaves. Out of the blue and yellow in them, yellow is going to fade faster, but not as fast as the red. So, there are darker blue stems and leaves with a very light yellow color. Both are the colors that are left behind. (Correct me if I'm wrong, not toooo sure about this explanation!)

I have a few spare adult AJs, one is pretty grungy... Maybe I should try? Sun is pretty strong here in California right now!
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Taffeta on June 22, 2018, 01:11:29 AM


Definetly, understandable. Though right above you someone posted a comparison and comment made by the ponys owner himself, so definetly read it and analyze the images if you haven't already.

Confused by the above since I obviously commented on those photos in my post...

 What we don't have here is an image of her with her head removed to see the inside colour. My Ember that I mentioned is a lot more purple in her neck seal than on her body.

The problems I have remain the same. The eye colour is suspect because it isn't blue so much as the tell-tale green-to-blue that comes with fading. Someone else mentioned the symbol leaves as well, which also show similar signs. That suggests fading.

It's been said that if it was faded, we'd have seen this before. That's not the case. In the 2 decades I've been working with UK information, a lot of stuff that was once general knowledge about mainstream European ponies is now gone. There are a lot of subjects people raise and then talk about as though they're new variations, when in fact they've been known about for years. And it's really unlikely that the community would see value in recording images of faded ponies.

With all of this said, I still think it probable that she came from a lighter colour batch. People don't focus on batch variations very much, but they're really normal.  To bring everyone back down to earth, the reason you notice this Baby AJ is because her symbol seems so starkly yellow. If you didn't see that, you might not notice. If she wasn't next to another Baby AJ, would anyone notice she was paler? Would you pay attention to the eyes? My point is, a lot of paler AJs and baby AJs can easily fly under the radar if they're not being directly compared.

I still think she is basically the same as a regular Baby AJ in terms of her value. Maybe less because that's probably a replaced tail and her eye looks damaged. But as ColdRuru said, it is up to the seller and buyer to price her.

Edit to add: To demonstrate what I mean about batch, some other Baby AJs for general comparison purposes:
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From Ponyland press
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From a sale site
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And mine, which I had from new.

None of these have yellow symbols, but also none of these have the same shade of symbol as each other, either. If the pony began with a paler symbol, then she's more likely to fade to yellow than, for example, my baby might with her dark orange apples.

It's also very logical that if Mother AJ has this symbol variation, baby will as well. They're almost certainly being printed from the same factory.

This isn't a Nirvana type pony release, it's a mainstream pony release across a large swathe of Europe. There will be differences, and a little sun just made this one a bit more exotic.

Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Baby Sugarberry on June 22, 2018, 02:25:06 AM
Everything about that 'variant' Baby Applejack points to fading.  The least stable colour is red.  Yellow is the next to go, and blue is the most difficult to break down with UV.  Orange body paler = less red
Apples yellow = less red
Leaves blue = green - yellow
blue eyes = green - yellow

I had an Applejack with yellow apples on one side and reddish-orange on the other, nothing more than sun damage. Pretty sure she ended up in the custom bait bin. Cute, but not valuable.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 22, 2018, 04:27:11 AM
Quote
Yeah, it's probably best not to completely rule out the possibility of variant or error, but it's unlikely. Especially since all of her seems to be lighter and no others have been spotted AFAIK. And there is a regular AJ with the same thing going on. I guess we really don't know... (I hope it's a variant though. that would be awesome!)

Also, I was thinking that if her eyes were still green, her head could've been switched, but thats a slim possibility... I don't think it's even a real possibility. Not to accuse anyone either!!!! Just a thought.

I truely agree. Though I think I saw somewhere on Google image search one or two more of the adult Applejacks with this going on? What is the most odd to me, is that if this is possible to happen by fading then how come this is the first baby AJ to emerge in this shape and color.

Honestly nothing is impossible with ponies! After all, we have nirvanas that have never even been found as other than once with a head different colour than the body, suggesting body swapping. The things these millions of ponies have encountered can be crazy. :D
Were the other AJs you saw different in appearance? If they were then fading would be VERY likely since different ponies fade differently. And I think there might be actual nirvanas with this AJ symbol coloring too.

There are probably very few AJs like this because this harsh of fading requires a lot of time and exposure.

Also, if she were to be a variant or error, we would know nothing about her apart from what she looks like, right? We really need more info darn it!

(Edited because I totally quoted correctly the first time.)

I am not certain, I can't even find the images any more.
That's true as well! Either ways, this little baby AJ is really confusing.

Yep that is true. And especialy with the fading having happened as smooth as with this one, if it is fading.

Yep that is correct! But then again, is there any kind of truths about the reverse Gusty either.
I agree!

Post Merge: June 22, 2018, 04:33:38 AM

Lots of Cotton Candys have blue eyes, despite being purple at the beginning. This has been confirmed to not be a variant (in most cases), and to instead be due to the behavior of the red pigment. Red is much more sensitive to UV light, so it breaks down very quickly. Yellow is not as sensitive, therefore the symbols look yellow without any damage or smudges to the paint.
I'm still inclined to believe it is due to fading for this reason, but I'd still love to see photos if you can provide them later.  :)

The thing that makes me kinda skeptical that it's just fading is that the stems/leaves on the variant are blue. If they were originally 'normal', that would suggest the yellow pigment in the green stems has faded almost completely - yet the apples are still definitely yellow. Regular Applejack's apples are also pretty red, so I would think that if they were faded they'd be almost white.  :lol:

Maybe someone out there with a baity Baby Applejack should leave her out in the sun for a while and let us know what happens. :P

I think green actualy tends to fade to blue. But red-ish orange to bright yellow? Never heard of.
I think the apples more often in baby AJs fade closer to the body tone as well.
What if it's a faded factory error.  :shocked:

Honestly that would be the most smart at this point, anyone willing to sacrifise one? Haha.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 22, 2018, 05:02:25 AM


Definetly, understandable. Though right above you someone posted a comparison and comment made by the ponys owner himself, so definetly read it and analyze the images if you haven't already.

Confused by the above since I obviously commented on those photos in my post...

 What we don't have here is an image of her with her head removed to see the inside colour. My Ember that I mentioned is a lot more purple in her neck seal than on her body.

The problems I have remain the same. The eye colour is suspect because it isn't blue so much as the tell-tale green-to-blue that comes with fading. Someone else mentioned the symbol leaves as well, which also show similar signs. That suggests fading.

It's been said that if it was faded, we'd have seen this before. That's not the case. In the 2 decades I've been working with UK information, a lot of stuff that was once general knowledge about mainstream European ponies is now gone. There are a lot of subjects people raise and then talk about as though they're new variations, when in fact they've been known about for years. And it's really unlikely that the community would see value in recording images of faded ponies.

With all of this said, I still think it probable that she came from a lighter colour batch. People don't focus on batch variations very much, but they're really normal.  To bring everyone back down to earth, the reason you notice this Baby AJ is because her symbol seems so starkly yellow. If you didn't see that, you might not notice. If she wasn't next to another Baby AJ, would anyone notice she was paler? Would you pay attention to the eyes? My point is, a lot of paler AJs and baby AJs can easily fly under the radar if they're not being directly compared.

I still think she is basically the same as a regular Baby AJ in terms of her value. Maybe less because that's probably a replaced tail and her eye looks damaged. But as ColdRuru said, it is up to the seller and buyer to price her.

Edit to add: To demonstrate what I mean about batch, some other Baby AJs for general comparison purposes:
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From Ponyland press
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From a sale site
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And mine, which I had from new.

None of these have yellow symbols, but also none of these have the same shade of symbol as each other, either. If the pony began with a paler symbol, then she's more likely to fade to yellow than, for example, my baby might with her dark orange apples.

It's also very logical that if Mother AJ has this symbol variation, baby will as well. They're almost certainly being printed from the same factory.

This isn't a Nirvana type pony release, it's a mainstream pony release across a large swathe of Europe. There will be differences, and a little sun just made this one a bit more exotic.

Sorry for typing before I had read fully!

But you're correct. Images of the insides could even solve the whole case, as the insides tend to almost always be the plastics original colors. Sometimes the mere edges of the inner neck, like with your Ember, reveal the fading made difference.

True. This is a surprisingly dark tone of blue.
I agree the leafs are most likely proof this could be fading.

Right! I know your website, and I definetly agree to trust your information regarding UK ponies.
I understand, and won't doubt. There's millions of ponies out there, it's only logical some ponies flaws stand out as more unique.
Yep that is correct, expect for saving the info to avoid similar confusions in the future.

I do agree there. Definetly, especialy in smaller factories obvious differences between the products emerge.
Those are good points! The apples definetly are the only thing what's throwing everyone off, since they usualy don't appear in faded Applejacks unlike the other differences. :blush:
I agree there as well. There probably are different body tone version of Applejacks, wich is normal due to fading and possibly plastic mixing in factories? so no-one cares especialy much, as this happens with most ponies.
Also damage can do odd things. From my personal experience the strangest body color flaw I've seen is a baity Blossom with her plastic being green at places.

For now, yes. She is nothing special, expect if someone can gather solid proof she is an error.

Yes. Thank you! :)
You are correct there! But the shades still are mixes red of orange and then there's this yellow apple one.
That is a good point as well. Thank you so much, again, for the opinions and insight.

Good note!

Definetly. The amount of differences one factorys ponies can have is the most obvious in nirvanas though, thus they're a good extreme level example of normal factory made differences between the same pony.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: PoserBeachball on June 22, 2018, 05:04:49 AM
Not Applejack, but Wigwam who is another orange pony:

I have three, they all look very different but I'm pretty sure that two are faded. They have faded very uniformly over their bodies, and the hair and eyes have remained white and blue. The red symbols have faded to almost nothing particularly on the lightest of the three. I've had the heads off all three and the neck plugs on the light ones are darker orange than the outside of the body.
I love them as they look like a set of brothers, similar but different enough to be individuals, but they are all regular Wigwams as far as I know.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 22, 2018, 05:05:06 AM
Oops posted the reply to Taffeta twice since the send button glitched. Erased it from this message. :blush:

Post Merge: June 22, 2018, 05:09:46 AM

Everything about that 'variant' Baby Applejack points to fading.  The least stable colour is red.  Yellow is the next to go, and blue is the most difficult to break down with UV.  Orange body paler = less red
Apples yellow = less red
Leaves blue = green - yellow
blue eyes = green - yellow

I had an Applejack with yellow apples on one side and reddish-orange on the other, nothing more than sun damage. Pretty sure she ended up in the custom bait bin. Cute, but not valuable.

Thank you for reminding us of basic pony color theory! You have a point there.
I too believe fading like this is more common in adults, and would suspect most atleast adult Applejacks with yellow apples have faded. This one is so stable looking, makes you wonder did someone fade her like this on purpose.
Not valuable if it's merely fading indeed.

Post Merge: June 22, 2018, 05:12:43 AM

Not Applejack, but Wigwam who is another orange pony:

I have three, they all look very different but I'm pretty sure that two are faded. They have faded very uniformly over their bodies, and the hair and eyes have remained white and blue. The red symbols have faded to almost nothing particularly on the lightest of the three. I've had the heads off all three and the neck plugs on the light ones are darker orange than the outside of the body.
I love them as they look like a set of brothers, similar but different enough to be individuals, but they are all regular Wigwams as far as I know.

Thank you!! I see.
I get what you mean, I have a Tex that technicaly doesn't even have the pink bushes of her symbol anymore.
I agree with you. Body fading is a lot more common than symbol fading though, I quess that's why everyone is so uncertain of this!
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Taffeta on June 22, 2018, 05:28:50 AM
Quote from: CinnamonOnions
Definetly. The amount of differences one factorys ponies can have is the most obvious in nirvanas though, thus they're a good extreme level example of normal factory made differences between the same pony.

I would disagree with this. Again, it's a problem of what information the community priveleges. Before Nirvana became a thing (ie before the word was applied to variants) we just had variations and a lot more discussion happened about things like this in a meaningful way. I don't say Nirvana shouldn't exist, but a lot of people focus now on those variations rather than the normal everyday ones that exist in most lines of most ponies in most places.

To give you an example, I have 6 different versions of Baby Mischief, which between them cover 3 manufacturing locations, have four different hair tinsel rooting patterns and three different body tones. But most people just talk about Baby Mischief and not any of those variations. They are really obvious variations you can tell by looking at the pony - but most people don't look that closely, because they're just not interested in those things. She's just one pony, who had a fairly limited release. Imagine how many other variations like that there are across all the mainstream release ponies across all countries (by mainstream I mean HK or China made).

By contrast, if you talk about, say, Greek Sunlight, or Greek Medley, there'll be more discussion on the colour of the pony etc because people are more aware of those differences.

It's a matter of knowledge and interest not a matter of it not happening, and over the years the interest in Nirvana stuff has grown at the expense of the more mainstream differences.

In short what I am trying to say is that there is a fair level of variation between different ponies from the same release without any formal reason why. And those ponies are generally just accepted in the community as normal. If this Baby AJ had green eyes and green symbol leaves I'd believe her symbols began as yellow. But because she doesn't, I suspect they began as pale orange...which is more unusual but still normal.

Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 22, 2018, 09:23:38 AM
Quote from: CinnamonOnions
Definetly. The amount of differences one factorys ponies can have is the most obvious in nirvanas though, thus they're a good extreme level example of normal factory made differences between the same pony.

I would disagree with this. Again, it's a problem of what information the community priveleges. Before Nirvana became a thing (ie before the word was applied to variants) we just had variations and a lot more discussion happened about things like this in a meaningful way. I don't say Nirvana shouldn't exist, but a lot of people focus now on those variations rather than the normal everyday ones that exist in most lines of most ponies in most places.

To give you an example, I have 6 different versions of Baby Mischief, which between them cover 3 manufacturing locations, have four different hair tinsel rooting patterns and three different body tones. But most people just talk about Baby Mischief and not any of those variations. They are really obvious variations you can tell by looking at the pony - but most people don't look that closely, because they're just not interested in those things. She's just one pony, who had a fairly limited release. Imagine how many other variations like that there are across all the mainstream release ponies across all countries (by mainstream I mean HK or China made).

By contrast, if you talk about, say, Greek Sunlight, or Greek Medley, there'll be more discussion on the colour of the pony etc because people are more aware of those differences.

It's a matter of knowledge and interest not a matter of it not happening, and over the years the interest in Nirvana stuff has grown at the expense of the more mainstream differences.

In short what I am trying to say is that there is a fair level of variation between different ponies from the same release without any formal reason why. And those ponies are generally just accepted in the community as normal. If this Baby AJ had green eyes and green symbol leaves I'd believe her symbols began as yellow. But because she doesn't, I suspect they began as pale orange...which is more unusual but still normal.

I get what you mean, my point just was some countries ponies have notable differences between almost every unit the same pony, wich is a good extreme example of how factory runs can vary between each other? Sorry if I forgot the word "some".
 It happens with all ponies, of course, but certain countries ponies are the most visible examples of the differences factory runs have (but some flutters are almost as notable) and that's what I meant - not that only nirvanas would have differences between batches or such. I brought them up because some of them can be used as extreme examples of how runs can vary, a normal thing that happens in slighther amounts between all ponies. Sorry to cause misunderstandings..?

I won't doubt at all! I know different factory runs and results of age can cause big differences in ponies.

That's a good point as well.

I understand what you mean. The most crazy chance all of this leaves open is that her symbols might have already started out as unusualy yellowish and have faded from that.
Who knows, really.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: ColdRuru on June 22, 2018, 11:00:59 AM
Sorry I cannot help better, I translated to you all I found about this baby when he was introduced to the french community, in fact the owner didn't tell a lot about. But everyone in that forum doesn't doubt of the fact it's a variation also, so no debate there to explain better the case.
I could try to drop a PM in french to the vendor (as you mentionned she's not good with english?)  to ask for explanation on why she pointed on a variant instead of a sunfading? In fact, it can help her own sale if people agreed on what's her pony is, no?
Let me know what you thinks, I just don't want to bother her for nothing :blush:
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on June 22, 2018, 11:05:53 AM
People are always just way way way too eager to say it's a valuable OOAK international Nirvana prototype variation instead of thinking clearly about the fact that children played with their toys outside in the sunshine a lot.  :(

200Euros is an insane amount of money for a single "regular issue" MLP variation that nothing is known about - too good to be true, IMHO !
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 22, 2018, 11:14:12 AM
People are always just way way way too eager to say it's a valuable OOAK international Nirvana prototype variation instead of thinking clearly about the fact that children played with their toys outside in the sunshine a lot.  :(

200Euros is an insane amount of money for a single "regular issue" MLP variation that nothing is known about - too good to be true, IMHO !
This. The possibility of it being a variant is slim. Especially since we have more pictures of her and tbh, she just looks faded.

ColdRuru, I would ask if you could! I'm sure you won't bother her and it definitely isn't for nothing ;) It will probably help us decide if it is a variant or faded.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Taffeta on June 22, 2018, 11:15:22 AM
Unfortunately this happens because of people being mote interested in the Nirvana. I don't think the seller or the other community are being misleading...but there are many more explanations that make sense.

It reminds me a bit of the white hair posey thing...
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Baby Sugarberry on June 22, 2018, 02:14:28 PM
It's more appealing to believe you have a valuable variant, special pony than one that's just damaged or attributable to normal factory variance, so it's not really a surprise when stuff like this crops up.  I don't think it's malicious, just overly optimistic.

There'd be more plausibility of being a variant if some part of that Baby AJ wasn't paler than it should be. You see the same shift in posters that have been exposed in shop windows for a long time.  First the red goes, then the yellow, and finally all that's left is the blue.

Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Noasar on June 22, 2018, 02:25:08 PM
I actually really like the yellow apples. It’s definitely faded.
I once had a Cherries Jubilee pass through my hands whose cherries were so faded they were almost white.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: ColdRuru on June 23, 2018, 04:07:17 AM
She responded to me (in French) so here's a translation of what she said.
Also, she said she might take new pictures.

I hope this will helps you, also bear in mind it's not myself talking :biggrin:

"First _ faded aren't even, but it's the case with this baby"
"Second _ when a pony fade it's mostly one side, but here the two have exactly the same color tones"
"Third _ the eyes aren't the regular version like a pigment was missing. As a print without all the colors > so it points to a factory error with a missprint or pigment color missing at the end of the product chain"
"Four _ in 20 years of collecting I saw another one like mine on the debuts of ebay."
Five _ I've got a mother AJ with yellow symbol as well, the colors are exactly the same. They should varies a bit if it was faded"

Also she mention she's better on clue for factory errors than variant then. The baby is stamped HK under hoofs.

She promess more picture when she got time and said she might go to open it, but it's difficult to do on HK babies.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Taffeta on June 23, 2018, 06:20:22 AM
@ColdRuru - thank you for asking her for more details about her pony.

I went back after reading your post and looked again at the images.

If she does have more photos that would be good, esp with the internal....

Looking again at her IG images, there looks to be mismatch between head and body but I can't tell if that's lighting because the other photos don't show that join.

I actually have no issue with her being paler from factory. Someone mentioned Baby Blossom earlier - there are 2 versions of her in terms of body tone, some very pale lavender which easily fades out to grey and some which are more substantial. With colours like that the mix is going to vary and also how much that dye stays the same colour over time. So the pale body and an even paleness isn't that unbelievable.

The fact she has an adult AJ with the same issue points more to fading of them both than it does disprove it. It would be one thing to suggest that a random variant baby AJ had happened through factory error but mother and baby AJ would have come off different production lines. She doesn't say which AJ, either - but that matters in this case. Do you happen to know?

The more I look at the baby pony, the more I see issues relating to wear and tear. There's some cut mane as well, and the symbols when you really look at them have the slightly grainy texture that often seems to occur on symbols that have begun to wear or fade. Someone mentioned CJ above - CJ has lots of different symbol types, but you can tell with her (and often with Posey, with Tootsie's lollipops, etc) that fading or wear has occurred because of how the symbols look. The colour that fades out in all of these cases is probably the reddish pigment given that we're dealing with orange/red/pink shades in these symbols as well.

Green fading to blue in eye paint, hair, body tone, symbol paint is extremely common. The fact she has both discoloured eyes AND symbol leaves indicated fading. If the leaves on the symbol were green and the apples yellow she'd be a convincing variant candidate.

But while I think her body was probably paler from the start, the rest to me looks like fading/wear/damage over time.

But that doesn't mean she's not a pretty pony :D

She's a bit discoloured, so yellowish in places, but this is my grey Ember:

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(for what she is supposed to look like, see below:
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That's a considerable difference, so she was probably never as dark in the first place, but she was still a purple ember, even though she really doesn't look like one now.

She is grey all over. Where she isn't grey she is yellow, so any inconsistencies of colour you can see in the image is basically whether she is yellowed or not, not any residual purple. Inside her neckline,  though, you can see the purple. Again, it's the pinkish/red pigment that she's lost, leaving her like Snuzzle in colour.

Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: banditpony on June 23, 2018, 06:34:37 AM
I also think it's faded.

I mean the seller can think what she wants, but her logic is off. Especially for fading on one side... Lots of ponies fade all over. Also, it's common for red and yellow to fade (like taffeta says). So it's unlikely that paint color was messed up to begin with.

Green fading to blue in eye paint, hair, body tone, symbol paint is extremely common. The fact she has both discoloured eyes AND symbol leaves indicated fading. If the leaves on the symbol were green and the apples yellow she'd be a convincing variant candidate.

The whole HK thing really just points to why the body color wouldn't be an exact match (different batch of plastic).
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 23, 2018, 07:58:01 AM
That logic is... Questionable. A Vulcan would have many issues with that. All of the evidence they use either points to fading more than error or doesn't really point anywhere.
1. Faded ponies can be even. A lot of them are, some aren't. (From the pics she looks a bit uneven as well, some parts that usually get wear and tear like ear tips, back of legs look lighter?)
2. Not really true.... Like point one.
3. Pigment color missing? I thought paint was already mixed? And green fades to blue, and this dark green could easily fade to that color blue.
4. Were they different though? This doesn't prove anything except for another one exists?
5. Not necessarily... And that would suggest that the same thing would have to happen which would be missing pigment?

So she is a factory error because she is even, has one color missing and that one color would be the first to fade, and another one exists? Not even mentioning any evidence for the symbol except for the fact they're even? A lot of ponies would be factory errors then.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on June 23, 2018, 08:11:08 AM

So she is a factory error because she is even, has one color missing and that one color would be the first to fade, and another one exists? Not even mentioning any evidence for the symbol except for the fact they're even? A lot of ponies would be factory errors then.

EXACTLY.  MLP are NOT 100% uniformly identical right off the factory line.... they ALL have individual imperfections!  That's because they are made in batches.  each time the workers fire up the vinyl pellet melting machine, they WILL get a different result!

 that's why when you buy a colored paint at the hardware store, they highly suggest buying an extra can for touch-up/repairs, because even if you take that card with the Pantone specs to the paint counter next week, the color will still be slightly different.

there is optimism and there's the reality of manufacturing vinyl toys in a factory.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 23, 2018, 10:51:36 AM
Sorry I cannot help better, I translated to you all I found about this baby when he was introduced to the french community, in fact the owner didn't tell a lot about. But everyone in that forum doesn't doubt of the fact it's a variation also, so no debate there to explain better the case.
I could try to drop a PM in french to the vendor (as you mentionned she's not good with english?)  to ask for explanation on why she pointed on a variant instead of a sunfading? In fact, it can help her own sale if people agreed on what's her pony is, no?
Let me know what you thinks, I just don't want to bother her for nothing :blush:

It's okay, it was already greatly helpful to have close ups and the professional owners opinion! No matter what the ponys owner does, we really never can be certain is she an error or faded or both!  :)
(I could try too, as I'm currently purchasing a few ponies from her actualy, but I've understood her english is not too great?) That would be greatly nice though! :) You are very much correct there!
I could always attempt to ask myself in english since I'm anyways discussing a purchase from her and currently waiting for additional pictures of what I'm buying.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 10:55:03 AM

People are always just way way way too eager to say it's a valuable OOAK international Nirvana prototype variation instead of thinking clearly about the fact that children played with their toys outside in the sunshine a lot.  :(

200Euros is an insane amount of money for a single "regular issue" MLP variation that nothing is known about - too good to be true, IMHO !

Sadly that as well tends to happen. (Though this one is not nirvana, most likely an error if not faded)
That is true. In this case no-one just has seen before a baby Applejack with this smoothly yellow apples, and the owner herself is a professional collector, so I quess it's keeping the debate up and running!

Yeah it is a bit pricey, wich I why I said no-one should get too excited of this one.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:00:14 AM

Unfortunately this happens because of people being mote interested in the Nirvana. I don't think the seller or the other community are being misleading...but there are many more explanations that make sense.

It reminds me a bit of the white hair posey thing...

I agree a lot. The pony is an open for debate mystery, that we'll never know of for certain. This isn't like the cases of a reverse colored mane Gusty that is too obviously an error, or non-plastic ponies that are obvious prototypes, or even like certain flutters (hmmh Forget Me Not especialy) that are known to have wide differences between each other.

Oh dear, has there in earlier communitys days been a debate of that as well? It's hard to imagine nowadays. Maybe this one too will be solved by more faded ones surfacing.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:01:41 AM

I actually really like the yellow apples. It’s definitely faded.
I once had a Cherries Jubilee pass through my hands whose cherries were so faded they were almost white.

Oh really? Thanks for telling! It always adds up proof to have cases you can compare on.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:03:33 AM

She responded to me (in French) so here's a translation of what she said.
Also, she said she might take new pictures.

I hope this will helps you, also bear in mind it's not myself talking :biggrin:

"First _ faded aren't even, but it's the case with this baby"
"Second _ when a pony fade it's mostly one side, but here the two have exactly the same color tones"
"Third _ the eyes aren't the regular version like a pigment was missing. As a print without all the colors > so it points to a factory error with a missprint or pigment color missing at the end of the product chain"
"Four _ in 20 years of collecting I saw another one like mine on the debuts of ebay."
Five _ I've got a mother AJ with yellow symbol as well, the colors are exactly the same. They should varies a bit if it was faded"

Also she mention she's better on clue for factory errors than variant then. The baby is stamped HK under hoofs.

She promess more picture when she got time and said she might go to open it, but it's difficult to do on HK babies.
Thank you so much!!! ❤ it's all I can even say!

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:09:07 AM

@ColdRuru - thank you for asking her for more details about her pony.

I went back after reading your post and looked again at the images.

If she does have more photos that would be good, esp with the internal....

Looking again at her IG images, there looks to be mismatch between head and body but I can't tell if that's lighting because the other photos don't show that join.

I actually have no issue with her being paler from factory. Someone mentioned Baby Blossom earlier - there are 2 versions of her in terms of body tone, some very pale lavender which easily fades out to grey and some which are more substantial. With colours like that the mix is going to vary and also how much that dye stays the same colour over time. So the pale body and an even paleness isn't that unbelievable.

The fact she has an adult AJ with the same issue points more to fading of them both than it does disprove it. It would be one thing to suggest that a random variant baby AJ had happened through factory error but mother and baby AJ would have come off different production lines. She doesn't say which AJ, either - but that matters in this case. Do you happen to know?

The more I look at the baby pony, the more I see issues relating to wear and tear. There's some cut mane as well, and the symbols when you really look at them have the slightly grainy texture that often seems to occur on symbols that have begun to wear or fade. Someone mentioned CJ above - CJ has lots of different symbol types, but you can tell with her (and often with Posey, with Tootsie's lollipops, etc) that fading or wear has occurred because of how the symbols look. The colour that fades out in all of these cases is probably the reddish pigment given that we're dealing with orange/red/pink shades in these symbols as well.

Green fading to blue in eye paint, hair, body tone, symbol paint is extremely common. The fact she has both discoloured eyes AND symbol leaves indicated fading. If the leaves on the symbol were green and the apples yellow she'd be a convincing variant candidate.

But while I think her body was probably paler from the start, the rest to me looks like fading/wear/damage over time.

But that doesn't mean she's not a pretty pony :D

She's a bit discoloured, so yellowish in places, but this is my grey Ember:

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(for what she is supposed to look like, see below:
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That's a considerable difference, so she was probably never as dark in the first place, but she was still a purple ember, even though she really doesn't look like one now.

She is grey all over. Where she isn't grey she is yellow, so any inconsistencies of colour you can see in the image is basically whether she is yellowed or not, not any residual purple. Inside her neckline,  though, you can see the purple. Again, it's the pinkish/red pigment that she's lost, leaving her like Snuzzle in colour.

Thank you for the in detail examination again, Taffeta!
Oh and the adult Apple Jack is Hong Kong marked as well.
You bring up a lot of good points, that have been greatly useful. I think we all can say at this point that it's most likely fading, just an unusualy beautiful one!
Also thank you for bringing up comparisons of your already pale but faded Ember.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Taffeta on June 23, 2018, 11:24:24 AM
Back in the late 1990s, it was one of the many false rumours about UK ponies. But the community then was not quite like now in terms of how global it was. There were only a few of us from the UK involved and not many from Europe either, one or two from Australia maybe. And a lot of rumours about what existed in other countries with a handful of us working really hard to clarify the real from the myth. White hair posey was one of those rumours because she comes up often. Her hair and symbols can fade completely to white.

Reverse Gusty is also a contentious one because there were a number of scams of people creating fake ones to sell as real. There are maybe three real ones in existence that we can prove are real? But there have been many other fakes over the years. The ones which are accepted as real have been subjected to a lot of investigation and I think they also have a paper trail of ownership right back to them first being found. Chemical tests have also been done on suspected fakes, to prove the wrong kind of glue even on very good ones.

Basically for something to be a batch variant there's not a lot of fuss about proving it, because the pony isn't worth any more money for being slightly different in symbol or body tone. But if it's supposed to be a rare variant OOAK nirvana type, then generally it gets subjected to much more enquiry. Partly, I suppose, because of scams like the white hair posey one and the Reverse Gusty one. In both those cases people paid a lot of money for something that wasn't a variant. When large amounts of money are involved, then it can't really be a debate - it needs to be for sure, if that makes sense?

Again, I don't think this seller is trying to mislead anyone. She clearly believes in her pony. I just don't personally believe it's a variant.

My question about AJ was not about the country but the pose. It matters in terms of the release timeline and thus production.

It's already quite unlikely that an adult and a baby AJ out of all others would manage to get through the production line with the wrong colour symbol and then randomly find their way to the house of the same collector. If there are lots of them, then that's different - but if there are only one or two, it's pretty unlikely. BUT if the AJ adult comes from a completely different release year, it's next to impossible to make that connection. That would leave fading as pretty much the only explanation...so that's why I asked.

Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 23, 2018, 11:37:40 AM
Honestly, this "professional collector" has serious errors in logic and if the best evidence they can come up with all points to fading, I don't think there's much of a debate left. Them being a "professional collector" doesn't mean squat to me, but it seems like it does to members of that other board. All of the evidence points to fading (though some of it could be interpreted as error). Though I don't think they are trying to mislead anyone.

This is a lot like white haired Posey...
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 23, 2018, 01:23:44 PM
Back in the late 1990s, it was one of the many false rumours about UK ponies. But the community then was not quite like now in terms of how global it was. There were only a few of us from the UK involved and not many from Europe either, one or two from Australia maybe. And a lot of rumours about what existed in other countries with a handful of us working really hard to clarify the real from the myth. White hair posey was one of those rumours because she comes up often. Her hair and symbols can fade completely to white.

Reverse Gusty is also a contentious one because there were a number of scams of people creating fake ones to sell as real. There are maybe three real ones in existence that we can prove are real? But there have been many other fakes over the years. The ones which are accepted as real have been subjected to a lot of investigation and I think they also have a paper trail of ownership right back to them first being found. Chemical tests have also been done on suspected fakes, to prove the wrong kind of glue even on very good ones.

Basically for something to be a batch variant there's not a lot of fuss about proving it, because the pony isn't worth any more money for being slightly different in symbol or body tone. But if it's supposed to be a rare variant OOAK nirvana type, then generally it gets subjected to much more enquiry. Partly, I suppose, because of scams like the white hair posey one and the Reverse Gusty one. In both those cases people paid a lot of money for something that wasn't a variant. When large amounts of money are involved, then it can't really be a debate - it needs to be for sure, if that makes sense?

Again, I don't think this seller is trying to mislead anyone. She clearly believes in her pony. I just don't personally believe it's a variant.

My question about AJ was not about the country but the pose. It matters in terms of the release timeline and thus production.

It's already quite unlikely that an adult and a baby AJ out of all others would manage to get through the production line with the wrong colour symbol and then randomly find their way to the house of the same collector. If there are lots of them, then that's different - but if there are only one or two, it's pretty unlikely. BUT if the AJ adult comes from a completely different release year, it's next to impossible to make that connection. That would leave fading as pretty much the only explanation...so that's why I asked.

Ah I understand. Internet was fairly new, and the pony community as it is was young, right?
Yeah I can understand that. And I only can imagine the mess of getting the g1 MLP info to it's current point especialy with the wild amount of variants and exclusives - I have often noticed when trying to identify vintage toys out of my collection range that there might not be any kind of info compilation at all, it all depends suddenly on Google image search results!
Understandable, very understandable.

Ahh, no surprise really. Especialy when the authentic one sold for +1000$, if the rumors I heard were right?
That's really wild, yet worth appreciating, though. The community sure has a lot of determination to go that far for the sake of telling apart fakes. And that determination is certainly needed to keep the uniqueness and value of the authentic ones.

Definetly not, more minor variations often tend to get unnoticed or instantly accepted as flaws. (Like I did when seeing a moldy Blossom with bright green plastic in certain parts) Wich is why it doesn't affect the value either, as you said.
You definetly are correct there! True indeed. People are more careful now, not anything anymore gets accepted as an authentic variant or error, wich is a good thing. I agree very much with you.

Yeah I agree on that as well. The seller is definetly not any kind of scammer and has authentic, very rare pony items on sale as well, so it's certainly just a case of strong belief.

Ah! It's the basic shy pose Apple Jack. I think I've seen those with yellow apples more (if I remember correct), wich makes me certain it atleast is merely a result of fading.

I agree a lot in there. My opinion would stand as the adult ones being certainly faded, but the baby being almost certainly, but notably less certainly than with the adult one, being faded.
Again, I understand what you mean.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 01:31:07 PM

Honestly, this "professional collector" has serious errors in logic and if the best evidence they can come up with all points to fading, I don't think there's much of a debate left. Them being a "professional collector" doesn't mean squat to me, but it seems like it does to members of that other board. All of the evidence points to fading (though some of it could be interpreted as error). Though I don't think they are trying to mislead anyone.

This is a lot like white haired Posey...

And honestly I mainly assumed them to be a professional due to them having collected for 20 years.
True, though there might be things lost in translation. I suppose so, though.
Mostly yes, but at the same time the slim chance of this being an odd error or a faded error pony exists. But the chance is indeed slim.
I agree there.

In a way, yes: similar case of missing information leaving only common sense to figure out the truth, and the truth being fading.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Taffeta on June 23, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
It might freak you out but there are a lot of people in this community who have been collecting for more than 20 years xD. And there are also people who have been less time but who have accrued knowledge and experience, as well as those who have been collecting for ages but only casually. I guess my point is that we don't separate ourselves by length of time vs knowledge. We all have things we know stuff about and things we don't, I guess?

Re: Applejack - thank you. Then it probably must be fading. The shy pose AJ came out the year before baby AJ, who was part of the same release year as collector pose AJ. I'm not ruling out potential crossover, but it just reduces the likelihood of this being a variation again. It would be a very big coincidence, let's just leave it at that.

All of this doesn't remove the fact that she actually looks very cute with those symbols though. Just not €200 worth of cute. Although I remember the first baby AJ ever to appear on ebay sold for $300 xD.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 23, 2018, 02:48:31 PM
It might freak you out but there are a lot of people in this community who have been collecting for more than 20 years xD. And there are also people who have been less time but who have accrued knowledge and experience, as well as those who have been collecting for ages but only casually. I guess my point is that we don't separate ourselves by length of time vs knowledge. We all have things we know stuff about and things we don't, I guess?
Exactly! I don't know anything about this person and what they know. Just because you have ponies doesn't mean you know about them. Also, saying professional collector makes it sound like a job XD
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: ColdRuru on June 23, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
I just want to said that I agree with Taffeta and CinnamonOnions that this girl is not trying to scam anybody and believe in her pony, no matter what individual people can thinks ;)
And as I said, in the end it's up to everybody to take the choice to buy or not :biggrin:
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Safflower on June 23, 2018, 06:05:30 PM
I just want to said that I agree with Taffeta and CinnamonOnions that this girl is not trying to scam anybody and believe in her pony, no matter what individual people can thinks ;)
And as I said, in the end it's up to everybody to take the choice to buy or not :biggrin:
Agreed ;) (meant to add that in my last post whoops)
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: ColdRuru on June 24, 2018, 02:15:30 AM
Well, in the heart of the debate... that remembers me I don't have an AJ baby, I did a quick search and...
I just saw this guy on ebay :)

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Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 24, 2018, 01:33:28 PM
It might freak you out but there are a lot of people in this community who have been collecting for more than 20 years xD. And there are also people who have been less time but who have accrued knowledge and experience, as well as those who have been collecting for ages but only casually. I guess my point is that we don't separate ourselves by length of time vs knowledge. We all have things we know stuff about and things we don't, I guess?

Re: Applejack - thank you. Then it probably must be fading. The shy pose AJ came out the year before baby AJ, who was part of the same release year as collector pose AJ. I'm not ruling out potential crossover, but it just reduces the likelihood of this being a variation again. It would be a very big coincidence, let's just leave it at that.

All of this doesn't remove the fact that she actually looks very cute with those symbols though. Just not €200 worth of cute. Although I remember the first baby AJ ever to appear on ebay sold for $300 xD.

No surprise there :D but considering how young the community was back then, you could expect, if not knowing any better, most who have collected seriously all the way from 90s would be professionals of pony info by now.
Yep that's definetly true! Man I haven't been in this community for more than under two years either.
That's a great point though, you're very right.

Probably. Ah I understand! And yep, you're correct there. I still will stick to think there's a very slight chance of this being somewhat an error though, despite it probably being just severly faded.

She is very adorable, and so beautifuly worn too! Definetly not even near 200 whopping euros.
Oh wow whaaat??? Then again... USA located collectors often tend to buy Europe exclusive things for big prices in almost every collecting community.

Post Merge: June 24, 2018, 01:35:07 PM

Well, in the heart of the debate... that remembers me I don't have an AJ baby, I did a quick search and...
I just saw this guy on ebay :)

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Pfff looks like the mystery is solved! Thanks.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: NightGliderSA on June 25, 2018, 02:00:07 AM
A bit late in at the starting gate, but I am on the side of those who are going for 'faded'. It is completely possible for a pony to fade evenly; I have a lovely Cherries Jubilee (as a random example) who is evenly faded with lilac instead of purple cherries. I am keeping her as I like Cherries and she makes a nice addition to my Cherries collection. But she is by no means a 'variant'. Simply faded. What does not show in the photo is that her body and hair are also lighter than non-faded Cherries next to her.

Here she is next to her non-faded counterpart:
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I think it is as Taffeta mentioned earlier in the thread: people do not always notice these small variations until they are pointed out by someone. However they are there, and this is something that I have personally noticed. It also happens with Wigwam's symbols for example.

But I also agree that the seller genuinely believes that they have a unique pony, which in a way is what we all want to believe, right? So is perfectly natural.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 25, 2018, 04:56:13 PM
A bit late in at the starting gate, but I am on the side of those who are going for 'faded'. It is completely possible for a pony to fade evenly; I have a lovely Cherries Jubilee (as a random example) who is evenly faded with lilac instead of purple cherries. I am keeping her as I like Cherries and she makes a nice addition to my Cherries collection. But she is by no means a 'variant'. Simply faded. What does not show in the photo is that her body and hair are also lighter than non-faded Cherries next to her.

Here she is next to her non-faded counterpart:
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I think it is as Taffeta mentioned earlier in the thread: people do not always notice these small variations until they are pointed out by someone. However they are there, and this is something that I have personally noticed. It also happens with Wigwam's symbols for example.

But I also agree that the seller genuinely believes that they have a unique pony, which in a way is what we all want to believe, right? So is perfectly natural.

Jubilee has been brought up previously too on this thread as a good example! Faded ponies can definetly look pretty. Also if you read a bit forward on the posts of this thread it has been almost certainly confirmed already that this baby Applejack too is just extreme fading. I just am not sure should I delete the opening post to begin with so I'm keeping it there with the bolded edit to clear up.

Yep. Small variations go unnoticed, so it's a bit confusing to many when suddenly there's a pony with these small variations and a bigger difference.
Wigwam too has been mentioned for an example!

True there!
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: Baby Sugarberry on June 25, 2018, 07:12:24 PM
Scoops is another one that comes up too - her magenta/purple milkshakes already appear in several shades but can also fade to very pretty pastels.
Title: Re: Baby Applejack with yellow apples?
Post by: CinnamonOnions on June 27, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
Scoops is another one that comes up too - her magenta/purple milkshakes already appear in several shades but can also fade to very pretty pastels.

Ah I see!! And Tickles symbols seems to fade to silver often.
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