Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.

[Taffeta]

@Carrehz, yes, I have a whole section in my geek brain for "maybe" stories that we can't prove but which are interesting to track down.

Although there are 'prototypes' that have been accepted as 'real' which have very suspect evidence for their authenticity. I think it's always good to question.

The pony comic did not invent its own pony characters until Tales, it only invented a whole lot of other species characters, including witches, mermaids, etc etc etc. It ascribed Cotton Candy as nurse, and then Gusty as 'Nurse Gusty' who looked after the baby ponies (later inherited by Lollipop and finally, informally, Caramel Crunch, although she never had the title of 'Nurse'). They used ponies to fill these roles that Hasbro didn't provide them with an answer for. It would be very odd for them to completely invent Lady Lessons. I don't think that they did.

BUT I do think she might have vanished at the concept art or pre-prototype stage. One interesting feature of the comics overall is that they drew ponies from prototype images more often than not. Sometimes they made mistakes due to lighting in photos, sometimes they drew the US version eg Baby Splashes), sometimes other prototype features emerged (wings on Player, Songster, horn on Singing Pocket, the Pocket Friends' pony art in general, Baby Mischief in purple, feathered hooves on Baby Paws...etc).

...So the comics had the pictures a lot earlier than production. They also had the same mess up with pony names that Hasbro themselves had with the Sundae Best (which is another topic completely).

That means it's plausible that Lady Lessons was in a very early round of production but was scrapped or the design was pushed over to Love Token and the symbol was changed. I wouldn't rule it out.

...All that said, I don't think that makes her a 'real' pony. I just don't think she was invented by the comic. I think she came from Hasbro, but because she didn't make it to the preproduction level, we can't really count her as existing. Like the pony from RaMC, she may have been  something, but ultimately, she never was.

Incidentally that image is from an annual, not the comics, which is not quite the same thing. I do think the comics did include Lady Lessons quite a lot though. Interesting given they didn't include Sweet Clover or Rosette. Maybe that was where the production decision differed? Maybe they got the green light instead? I don't think Sweet Clover is a substitute for Lady Lessons, but she is a darker pink in the UK.

[Carrehz]

Agree that it's good to keep a healthy bit of scepticism/question in mind with these pony mysteries

Everything you said about the comics usually assigning roles to ponies instead of inventing them - that's the sticking point for me, too, when it comes to Lady Lessons. I can't think of any reason why they'd "have" to make up a teacher pony here, instead of giving the role to a "real" pony. Like, you mentioned the RaMC Rainbow pony - I can think of several plausible reasons that the Sunbow crew might have just made her up from scratch. Not saying that definitely IS what happened, but it's plausible to me that it could be the case. Animation takes longer than comic work (at least it does now, not sure how far in advance the comics/books/etc were done back in the day!), I could see them just quickly making up a generic rainbow design so as to not hold up production. (Trying not to go too off-topic here )
But I can't think of any plausible reason for the comic peeps to "have" to make up a character to fill the teacher role. :/ It just seems uncharacteristic of them. I dunno... like I said, I'm wary of putting TOO much stock in patterns. Maybe they did just suddenly do a 180 and decide to make up a whole new character instead of assigning the role to a pre-existing Hasbro pony. There's not enough concrete evidence either way to really figure out what happened here. But my gut instinct is that Lady Lessons came from Hasbro. Esp. like you pointed out, all the other cases of the comics clearly drawing from early production materials... makes me wonder...

and yeah - I know the image in OP is an annual - I was using "comics" as a catchall term, I thought she was in the comics proper as well as the annual?

[Lilja]

Another thing to consider is that Hasbro UK seemed to prefer having ponies included with their playsets, even after the US line stopped doing it. They added ponies to the later recolored versions of the Pretty Parlor and Show Stable, while the US versions did not come with any (and there were also plans to add Paradise to the UK release of Paradise Estate). So it could make sense that a UK produced playset like the schoolhouse was planned to come with a pony in its inception. The same could also be the case for the kitchen, since we know there were five symbols designed for the cookery ponies (with the gingerbread one going unused).

[Carrehz]

Good point Lilja! I think it is mostly just the last handful of playsets that didn't include ponies...

The same could also be the case for the kitchen, since we know there were five symbols designed for the cookery ponies (with the gingerbread one going unused).

Oooh I didn't know this? :o The only proto thing I know about regarding the Kitchen is the yellow cat it was supposed to come with (still pining after that one).

[Lilja]

There is no indication that the kitchen was to come with a pony, but I'm thinking about the pink/blue pegasus with gingerbread symbol shown in the 1992 pamphlet, who was replaced with Sweet Delight. Sweet delight has the same color scheme, but a completely different symbol. And her symbol is an assortment of different baked goods, while the others only have one type each. So if we theorize that there was to be a pony included with the kitchen, my guess is that it would've had Sweet Delights symbol, but probably not her color scheme, assuming the protoype pegasus was going to be released as shown.

[Carrehz]

Oh! I've never seen that pamphlet before. (It's here if anyone else wanted to see it)

I actually like the gingerbread symbol better than Sweet Delight's final symbol.

[Taffeta]

That leaflet's the standard insert for all ponies from that release year in the UK, it;s also the source for the yellow cat proto kitchen image. It would've been right at the start of the Kitchen/Cookery ponies being promoted.

But that pony is Sweet Delight:

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And, for another, the kitchen was promoted in the comic with Nice 'n' Spicy (albeit under a different name).

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There's no evidence at all that Hasbro ever considered selling a Cookery Pony with the kitchen. While it's true that a lot of random ponies did get shoved into kitchen playsets in clearance at end of line, that's not the same thing as a deliberate release. Comparing the Kitchen and the school is a bit odd, too. The school is a couple of years older.

...The UK preferred ponies with playsets? Not really borne out by the evidence.

Paradise was scrapped, so they decided NOT to use her. It's true there's a Snuzzle parlour release, but that's almost certainly getting rid of excess stock. The UK also had regular eyed baby Half Note and Cuddles later than the US, after the BBE release. There's a good argument this is also getting rid of stock.

Yes, they rereleased Lemon Drop, but I assume that's because Megan was not as important here. And, it was simply continuing LD production, since Hasbro went from one Show Stable pretty much to the other, there wasn't a big gap like there was in the US.

The only argument for adding a pony is Kiss Curl, which was Europe-wide, not just the UK. But then when you consider the US had the Satin Slipper, with Scoops, a whole playset we didn't get...it balances out. The Bed & Crib set also had no pony with it, Mummy and Twins were sold separately. Perfume Puff Palace also had no pony added.

There were also no new with-pony playsets in the UK after 1988. The school would've been around 1990, so I can believe they debated it, but decided against. The kitchen? Not a chance.

But I do think Lady Lessons was from Hasbro, I don't believe the comic invented her. I do think she would have come with the school, because the globe in the school looks a lot like her symbol, and she has the glasses, and so on. I just think she was nixed too early on in production.

[Leave a Whisper]

I like Sweet Delight's symbol, it's unusual. The kitchen playset is adorable! It does not bother me so much that new ponies get made for media, as it bums me that they don't also get toys.

[Lilja]

There were also no new with-pony playsets in the UK after 1988. The school would've been around 1990, so I can believe they debated it, but decided against. The kitchen? Not a chance.

I don't think that can be said with absolute certainty. We don't know when the concept for the kitchen playset started developement. The fact that a very different version was shown means it went through at least one revision. (and every other parlor type playset did have a pony included in their Hasbro UK version, so wouldn't surprise me if it was the intention for this one too at some point)

But of course, I'm not making any absolute claims. Just some light speculation about where Sweet Delight's final symbol could've come from, and why it replaced the gingerbread one. Could of course also just be that Hasbro UK didn't like the gingerbread symbol for some reason, and replaced it when they were changing the pony from pegasus to earth.

But it's interesting that the advertisement has the name Cupcake (which incidentally would've fit better with Sweet Delight's final symbol than Nice 'n Spicy's. Although better for Cherry Sweet's). That means we have five names, along with five symbol designs for the Cookery Ponies.

[Wildshadow]

I want to say I got a custom Lady Lessons with a kind of run down school I got in the mail, in the early 2000's. but part of me is wondering if I'm imagining it It's buried somewhere in my garage right now 

[Taffeta]

There are lot of things that can't be said with certainty, but the reason I poke at this is because there's a line, and I've seen it crossed a lot in the past, resulting in the misinformation situation, where myths have carried on even when they've been proven wrong.

The line is, quite simply, evidence. There's circumstantial evidence for the existence of Lady Lessons - the comic, the glasses. There's nothing for a kitchen pony.

As for the parlour, I think the original blue parlour was made in HK, but the Kiss Curl parlour - at least, according to the box I have - was made in Spain. Kiss Curl was made in HK and then in China, as the release continued. The Kitchen was also made in Spain, iirc. The only thing that tells us is that Europe had the mould for that playset, and so used it.

The UK wasn't a country that preferred to put ponies with its playsets. Some of this overlaps to Europe too, but I'll stick to the UK in my explanation. As I mentioned before, leftover ponies from other offers or releases made up most of the 'new' ponies in playsets after 1987. Unlike the US, where playsets were retired quickly and replaced, that didn't happen here. DC, LN, the stable etc continued longterm. Kiss Curl did at least 2 years, but the parlour had been out every year prior to that from 1983, first with Peachy and then with leftover CF Snuzzles. Yes, they printed new tags to go with it, but that's all. Leftover building + leftover pony= extra profits.

The reality is cost. The UK, even considering Europe at the time, was a much smaller market than the US. Paradise was dropped, presumably, for that reason. The boxes for PE here are the same as in the US. We never had our own release of PE, whatever was planned. Boxes from 1988 are no longer 'unique' to the UK (DC, LN have their own box designs in the UK). Perfume Puff Palace for example has the name changed, but the box shows happytail ponies (not officially sold here) and the leaflet inside includes mention of ponies also not sold here (Princess Dawn I think?) The backcard stories and art are also heavily recycled in this middle period before the bordered cards that come in around 1990. Even after 1990, it happens - which is why Lemon Treats appears in Sugar Sweet's backcard story, despite not having been officially released in the UK. All of this brings down cost.

...This is why we didn't really have extra ponies with our playsets. It's a good reason why Lady Lessons could've been projected, but wasn't. It's a great reason why there never was an idea of the kitchen having a pony. The kitchen itself is already cost-saving because of the reused mould. They focused on the accessories, and made the ponies separately. Separate = more money. They used this exact technique to sell the loving families and later, the family friends/babies. The kitchen also came out on the cusp of a big change in pony. The end of the US line. That market in the UK and Europe was suddenly the whole market. Why would they want to add extra cost, when they have a smaller target audience to aim at? Not all of Europe had G1, not all of Europe had all the same releases. Making a realistic pitch to toy stores across the continent was a different prospect from the guaranteed market in North America, which had helped boost bigger playset projects overall.

Important side-note, despite your argument, there are *no* UK/European only playsets which come with ponies. While Lemon Drop (China) and Kiss Curl came with playsets, the playsets were sold also in the US and Canada, thus in mass production. Producing the pony was not the same as producing everything. Even the waterfall, with its UK green base, still has its mould and design already in production at the same time.

On the prototype image, the fact it's not accurate only indicates it was new. It's about the wider context, with other similar photo promotions. There are a lot of prototypes even on that insert, as well as ponies which have clearly been photographed from the US release. Love in a Mist, Love Story, Love Letter, Good Weather are all wrong either in hair or pose. Chatterbox has her mouth shut. Tuneful and Dazzleglow don't resemble their UK releases. Nor does Pretty Beat - it's much less common to find one here with blue hair. All of these are misrepresentations, not just Sweet Delight. Such misrepresentations also exist on later photo-inserts for the UK and Europe, too, and in the Hasbro promotional books. Going back to the original schoolhouse year, there are at least 3 different versions of Baby Schoolbag in  promotional material - the boy baby, the first tooth baby, and the blossom pose baby. Baby Alphabet and Baby Countalot also have at least 2 versions. And so on.

Could we argue that the kitchen was in development for years? Yes. Can we prove it? No. Is there any evidence for it? No, because the same year it came out is the same year the Cookery ponies came out. It suggests they were designed to be sold at the same time, just not together in the same box.

So yeah. Speculation is fine, but there's a line. We could theorise Hasbro were going to make a line of doughnut themed ponies. We don't have any reason to suppose they didn't, but that's not a reason to suggest that they did. The reason there are still so many false clues around MLP, especially in Europe, is when the line between realistic speculation and invention gets crossed. I spent a lot of time stamping out made up 'facts' people had come up with based on photos in inserts, including one that made out that the pony with the gingerbread symbols was somehow a 'real variant' from some place or other. Discussion is fun, but the line is important.

Final note - the change of pose for Sweet Delight may have been a cost issue, over the use of that mould. It doesn't exist in the UK/Europe line post 1992. There are no unicorns or pegasus ponies in the later 1993-4 lines, but I'm struggling to think of any in the 1992 line that were not already sold in the US/Canada.

[Lilja]

What can I say, I really enjoy speculating about what might have been the creative process behind MLP toys. Even farfetched theories are fun to read, and can lead to interesting discoveries in the end.

There's always a risk someone will read speculations and mistake it for a fact. But I think it's better to address it when it actully happens (when something unprovable is claimed as fact), rather than always having to watch your words for fear someone will get the wrong idea. I don't think there should be a line drawn how far people are allowed to speculate.

There are some interesting things about Sweet Delight. I think it's a fair guess she was changed from pegasus to earth because from the schooltime ponies onward Hasbro UK only wanted earth ponies in their adult sets. But even then, why change the symbol from gingerbreads to what she has? And why have her in the same pose as Cherry Sweet, when they clearly had several other earth poses to chose from?

If we assume there was a kitchen playset pony designed which had Sweet Delight's final symbol and pose but a different color scheme, it makes more sense. To save time and money Hasbro could've merged the pegasus prototype with this speculative playset pony, retaining the pink/blue color scheme because it harmonized nicely with the other three. It would also explain why she has an assortment of different baked goods as her symbol (the kitchen came with different ones and tools to make them), which sets her apart from the others. And having the same pose as Cherry Sweet wouldn't be an issue if she originally wasn't intended to be part of the set.

Was this how it happened? Probably not. The true explanation is likely a more simple and boring one, but we'll never know it.

[Taffeta]

I love to speculate too.  But I came into the pony community when 95% of stuff on Europe and the UK was still being determined. All the information you take for granted now came out of the work we did then, to straighten out all the myths - of which there were many - and clarify the realities. I know from long, first hand experience, what it means to try and tell someone their information is wrong.

You say that it's better to debunk a myth when it comes up as fact, but it isn't that simple. There are still myths in circulation floating about which Dream Valley and its satellites invented in the late 1990s.

One website still claims that a version of Paradise was sold in the UK. MLPMerch, when they added G1 some years back, took that information without verifying it and included it. When it was raised with them, they demanded proof that that Paradise didn't exist - although they had not proven that she did. At the same time, Strawberry Reef promoted the myth that white Tootsie was a UK release pony for years (maybe it still does), because DV claimed it back in the day. If you look hard enough, you will still find people who believe blue heart dazzleglow was a UK exclusive, despite the fact 99% of examples, including MOC ones, were found in the US/Canada.

Singling out the gingerbread pegasus alone as something special is odd to me. It's not uncommon for symbols/poses to change (eg Baby Alphabet) through production stages.

It might be nice to theorise that a pony whose existence was removed might have been destined for other things, but the marketing suggests not. Nice & Spicy is the one shown in the comic advert. Cherry Sweet appears on the box,

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and in the 1993 photo ad for the playset (now correctly coloured).

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Hasbro do not advertise the kitchen, ever, with the gingerbread pegasus. That's a bit odd, if that was originally their sale plan.

And, while we can't know 100% that there wasn't a proto-proto-pegasus, it's a bit far-fetched to assume that it 'makes sense' for one to exist without a scrap of evidence to support it.

Why did her symbol change? Maybe Hasbro thought they'd done the gingerbread thing. Remember, candy cane Molasses was called 'Gingerbread' in the UK. Perhaps they thought the cakes were more expressive, since the kitchen had a gingerbread man cutter, but not a gingerbread man cake. Maybe they decided, finally, that gingerbread men were an odd snack for a pony to have! Who knows. Whatever the reason, Sweet Delight ended up this way.

On the pose - it's actually not uncommon for repeat poses in the UK/European releases. Let's go back as far as 1989-90, when the Brush and Grow Ponies happened. In the UK and Europe, Twisty Tail was sold in the walking pose, which is the same as Pretty Vision.

Even earlier, doubled up poses were actually the norm of set release. Tootsie and CJ, for example. Bow Tie and Applejack. And so on. The idea that it's odd is odd in itself. There's no reason to think that it is.

We see it in 1993 with Sweetheart and BonBon, among others. In fact, the same thing happens with the playschool babies. Baby Schoolbag is pushed into the baby blossom pose, which is also then used by Baby Countalot. There are a lot of pose shifts in this set before the final release is decided.

Why that pose? I can't tell you, but as I said, the same happened to Love in a Mist. Maybe it was an easy pose to get hold of at that time. We'll never know.

[Lilja]

Hasbro do not advertise the kitchen, ever, with the gingerbread pegasus. That's a bit odd, if that was originally their sale plan.

I don't think the gingerbread symbol would've gone with the kitchen. If anything, I think Sweet Delight's final symbol goes better with the kitchen and the gingerbread symbol fits better in the Cookery set (giving each pony their own speciality).

Even earlier, doubled up poses were actually the norm of set release. Tootsie and CJ, for example. Bow Tie and Applejack. And so on. The idea that it's odd is odd in itself. There's no reason to think that it is.

In the early years of MLP it was the norm for sets to have two of each pose. At this time they were also coming out with new poses every year. In the later years it's very rare to see a pose repeat in regular adult pony sets (unless there was some gimmick that required altering the molds). Perhaps they didn't realize the earth pose they chose for Sweet Delight was already used in the Cookery set, and at that point it was too late to do another revision.

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned about Lady Lessons is that her design is very toyetic, even being pink, the most popular pony color. If she was created for the comic it's a bit odd they'd design her like that. Compared to Miss Hackney in the Tales series, who clearly is designed to look like an older teacher and distinctive from the regular ponies, with more muted not as toy friendly colors.

[Taffeta]

Mm, honestly I don't think Hasbro UK/Europe as a rule cared much about the rules set down in the original line, because we see them messing around with glittery symbols on earth ponies (Snowflake), no stripe in the unicorn hair (Gypsy) and such very early on. That set also breaks the 2 of each pose rules that were floating around at that time, but still has 2 ponies in the CJ pose (CJ and Snowflake). Though that's another discussion that gets more complicated if you throw in different European releases - my point is that it's not odd to have 2 the same pose, but it's not odd not to

On Lady Lessons, you're right. It's entirely speculation to wonder whether that colour scheme was shunted over to Love Token or whether that's a coincidence. I do think she was somewhere in planning, but never got beyond it. Maybe even just a sketch of the playset with her existed, that was shown to the comic people. Who knows, but the comic DID get pictures very early, and did draw a lot of prototypes as a result. It would make sense.

I do wonder why they never included Rosette or Sweet Clover in the comic/annuals too. Sweet Clover had a giveaway offer in one comic, I remember that, but I don't recall them ever playing a role in a story or anything. By contrast, there's Lady Lessons! It reminds me of how they included a whole bunch of ponies sold in other places but not the UK (Medley, Glory, etc) in the early issues, as though they were seriously planned for here and then didn't happen. Maybe the reality with Lady L is that no country took her up, or regional Hasbros expressed concern about price point, so she was scrapped.