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Messages - Lilja

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1
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: February 07, 2023, 03:11:13 AM »
I don't think the LM pose was withdrawn from the BnG set for balance issues. If it was, then Hasbro would've not made Love Letter that pose. They changed the pose of L-I-A-M, but not Love Letter. They also didn't change the poses of Skylark or Pretty Beat, which, if they went to the trouble of changing Twisty Tail, they would surely also have done.

Just because Hasbro UK didn't take every opportunity to eradicate the pose from their lineup, doesn't mean it's not possible they saw some issue with it. The fact remains that they only used it once themselves. And had it removed from four sets they imported from the US. One time by changing a pony, the other times by cutting them out of the sets (the main objective was to reduce the number of ponies, but it's still noteworthy this pose was removed in every instance).

It's important to keep in mind that these decisions are generally not made for a single reason, but for a variety of factors. Also that it can be different people at different times making the decisions. Hasbro might pay the extra cost to have a pony revised in one instance, if they think it will make the pony sell better in their market. In another instance they might not consider the extra cost worth it and just release the set as is.

2
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: February 04, 2023, 01:37:09 PM »
To make my point as clear as I can. The vast majority of regular adult pony sets (I'm not talking about Baby Ponies, Big Brothers, SHS, various gimmicky remolded ponies etc.) released between 1988-1994 (reusing molds copyrighted between 1983-1987) have the ponies in different poses within each set. This is a fact, there is nothing to disagree on there.

I think that was deliberate on Hasbro's part. Same as they wanted a variety of colors in each set, they also aimed to have a variety of poses. And once they had a library of molds to choose from, they could easily do it without extra cost. Sometimes they couldn't for one reason or another (such as lack of usable molds for baby ponies for example), but they tried to when they could. This is my own speculation, which can be disagreed with.

however the Great Hair ponies are both...CJ pose.

They're not though?

Frankly, and not to go off topic, but Twisty Tail is a lot weirder, because WHY make her in a walking pose?

I think they changed it because the Love Melody pose has balance issues. Hasbro US used this pose a couple of times in their later sets, but Hasbro UK only used it once in their own. And removed the ponies using it from their release of the Sweetberry and MGR sets. Suggesting Hasbro UK saw more of a problem with this pose than Hasbro US and at least wanted to reduce its use after the Princess and TAF/Party sets.

3
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: February 04, 2023, 06:36:53 AM »
Mm, honestly I don't think Hasbro UK/Europe as a rule cared much about the rules set down in the original line, because we see them messing around with glittery symbols on earth ponies (Snowflake), no stripe in the unicorn hair (Gypsy) and such very early on. That set also breaks the 2 of each pose rules that were floating around at that time, but still has 2 ponies in the CJ pose (CJ and Snowflake). Though that's another discussion that gets more complicated if you throw in different European releases - my point is that it's not odd to have 2 the same pose, but it's not odd not to :)

But that set was released before Hasbro stopped making new regular adult molds, and didn't have as many to choose from. It only uses molds copyrighted 1984.

From 1988 and forward the overwhelming majority of regular adult pony sets don't repeat poses within a set. I think Hasbro understood that it's more visually appealing if every pony within a set has a unique pose (when possible), and that it was a deliberate choice.

The only exceptions are:
Brush 'n Grow, because one pony was changed for the european market.
Tales seven characters, likely because there are so many in the set.
Family Friends, because the Shady pose was used to represent the daddies.
Nurse Ponies, possibly because the head was altered with holes to have the nurse hats.
Cookery Ponies, for no apparent reason.

So yeah, I think it sticks out.

4
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: February 04, 2023, 02:31:41 AM »
Hasbro do not advertise the kitchen, ever, with the gingerbread pegasus. That's a bit odd, if that was originally their sale plan.
I don't think the gingerbread symbol would've gone with the kitchen. If anything, I think Sweet Delight's final symbol goes better with the kitchen and the gingerbread symbol fits better in the Cookery set (giving each pony their own speciality).

Even earlier, doubled up poses were actually the norm of set release. Tootsie and CJ, for example. Bow Tie and Applejack. And so on. The idea that it's odd is odd in itself. There's no reason to think that it is.
In the early years of MLP it was the norm for sets to have two of each pose. At this time they were also coming out with new poses every year. In the later years it's very rare to see a pose repeat in regular adult pony sets (unless there was some gimmick that required altering the molds). Perhaps they didn't realize the earth pose they chose for Sweet Delight was already used in the Cookery set, and at that point it was too late to do another revision.

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned about Lady Lessons is that her design is very toyetic, even being pink, the most popular pony color. If she was created for the comic it's a bit odd they'd design her like that. Compared to Miss Hackney in the Tales series, who clearly is designed to look like an older teacher and distinctive from the regular ponies, with more muted not as toy friendly colors.

5
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: January 27, 2023, 02:30:30 AM »
What can I say, I really enjoy speculating about what might have been the creative process behind MLP toys. Even farfetched theories are fun to read, and can lead to interesting discoveries in the end.

There's always a risk someone will read speculations and mistake it for a fact. But I think it's better to address it when it actully happens (when something unprovable is claimed as fact), rather than always having to watch your words for fear someone will get the wrong idea. I don't think there should be a line drawn how far people are allowed to speculate.

There are some interesting things about Sweet Delight. I think it's a fair guess she was changed from pegasus to earth because from the schooltime ponies onward Hasbro UK only wanted earth ponies in their adult sets. But even then, why change the symbol from gingerbreads to what she has? And why have her in the same pose as Cherry Sweet, when they clearly had several other earth poses to chose from?

If we assume there was a kitchen playset pony designed which had Sweet Delight's final symbol and pose but a different color scheme, it makes more sense. To save time and money Hasbro could've merged the pegasus prototype with this speculative playset pony, retaining the pink/blue color scheme because it harmonized nicely with the other three. It would also explain why she has an assortment of different baked goods as her symbol (the kitchen came with different ones and tools to make them), which sets her apart from the others. And having the same pose as Cherry Sweet wouldn't be an issue if she originally wasn't intended to be part of the set.

Was this how it happened? Probably not. The true explanation is likely a more simple and boring one, but we'll never know it.

6
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: January 23, 2023, 09:25:20 AM »
There were also no new with-pony playsets in the UK after 1988. The school would've been around 1990, so I can believe they debated it, but decided against. The kitchen? Not a chance.

I don't think that can be said with absolute certainty. We don't know when the concept for the kitchen playset started developement. The fact that a very different version was shown means it went through at least one revision. (and every other parlor type playset did have a pony included in their Hasbro UK version, so wouldn't surprise me if it was the intention for this one too at some point)

But of course, I'm not making any absolute claims. Just some light speculation about where Sweet Delight's final symbol could've come from, and why it replaced the gingerbread one. Could of course also just be that Hasbro UK didn't like the gingerbread symbol for some reason, and replaced it when they were changing the pony from pegasus to earth.

But it's interesting that the advertisement has the name Cupcake (which incidentally would've fit better with Sweet Delight's final symbol than Nice 'n Spicy's. Although better for Cherry Sweet's). That means we have five names, along with five symbol designs for the Cookery Ponies.

7
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: January 20, 2023, 11:30:03 AM »
There is no indication that the kitchen was to come with a pony, but I'm thinking about the pink/blue pegasus with gingerbread symbol shown in the 1992 pamphlet, who was replaced with Sweet Delight. Sweet delight has the same color scheme, but a completely different symbol. And her symbol is an assortment of different baked goods, while the others only have one type each. So if we theorize that there was to be a pony included with the kitchen, my guess is that it would've had Sweet Delights symbol, but probably not her color scheme, assuming the protoype pegasus was going to be released as shown.

8
Pony Corral / Re: Unknown pony in old Mlp comic.
« on: January 20, 2023, 09:30:01 AM »
Another thing to consider is that Hasbro UK seemed to prefer having ponies included with their playsets, even after the US line stopped doing it. They added ponies to the later recolored versions of the Pretty Parlor and Show Stable, while the US versions did not come with any (and there were also plans to add Paradise to the UK release of Paradise Estate). So it could make sense that a UK produced playset like the schoolhouse was planned to come with a pony in its inception. The same could also be the case for the kitchen, since we know there were five symbols designed for the cookery ponies (with the gingerbread one going unused).

9
Pony Corral / Re: Prototype Celestial pony at Pony Fair West
« on: September 09, 2022, 12:04:08 PM »
Although I don't know why they would make them all earth ponies if they were normal ponies.  They don't look like Sweetheart Sisters . . .

That's a good point! They look to be from before Hasbro phased out unicorns/pegasi completely. When the gimmicky sets didn't have a unicorn and/or pegasus there was usually a reason for it (ie the gimmick made horns/wings inconvenient or they were in some specialized mold)

Maybe since they have antennas on top of their heads, also adding a horn to one of them might've been seen as redundant. The lack of pegasi could be because the swirly pattern they were to have all over their bodies wouldn't have worked with, or didn't look good on wings. The existence of the pegasus prototype kind of speaks against this, but maybe that was just a designer grabbing whatever mold they had on hand to get an idea of how the pattern would look on the pony. It looks far from final in any case.

10
Pony Corral / Re: Prototype Celestial pony at Pony Fair West
« on: September 08, 2022, 08:59:59 AM »
Great to finally see a Fancy Swirl prototype after all these years! Even if it appears to be in early developement, so who knows what the final product would've looked like, or how far it got into developement. It seems sometimes the backcard art was done in advance before the actual toys were finalized, so that could possibly also be the case here. Not sure where the idea that they would've been in the bride pose comes from? To me the artwork looks more similar to the Glow 'n Show backcard, not quite as long-legged as the Pony Bride or Princess art. Having a set of four ponies all in the same pose would be unusual, but of course not impossible.

Heck it might even explain why the Colourswirls ARE randomly just in the Bride molds... I always wondered what was going on there. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason for it... but if they started off as Celestials then it'd make sense... to use a more unique mold to make them stand out and seem more otherworldy? and then they just stuck with the poses even after the designs changed? Hmmmm. I wonder if we'll ever get the full story behind this set...

I think it makes some sense for the Color Swirls to be in the bride pose. They have stripes of colors circling around their bodies, and with longer legs there is more area to circle around. They could've gone with the SHS poses too, but those are even thinner, so it might be hard to fit these designs on them. Another explanation could be that Hasbro just wanted to get more use out of this pose and not just use it for one-offs.

In the end it seems Hasbro couldn't work out a way to get Fancy Swirls to look the way they wanted. And we haven't seen anything similar to them since. I feel like the concept could've evolved into the Glow 'n Shows, Fancy Swirls or Flower Fantasy, which are all variations on ponies with designs that cover their entire bodies.

11
Pony Corral / Re: The Peachy Question
« on: July 07, 2022, 05:25:16 AM »
If I've understood correctly, the collector pose was changed mid-year from flat hooves to concave hooves. The first MLP product released was the original set of six, second was the Pretty Parlor with Peachy, and third was the Show Stable with Lemon Drop. Even though collector sites often list them under Year 2, these two playsets belong to the first release year (1983) and were both reissued the year after.

The Pretty Parlor logically must've been released right during the transition from FF to CF, which is why a very, very small number of FF Peachys exist. While the show stable was released after FFs had stopped production entirely, which is why no FF Lemon Drop has been found.

12
Pony Corral / Re: Dragons or Bushwoolies?
« on: June 14, 2022, 03:10:48 AM »
Yeah, logically I think dragons are better (and cuter) than bushwoolies. The dragons are what I associate with the princess ponies since childhood. BUT, it was so mindblowing to find out they made toys of the bushwoolies when I first got online. Even more mindblowing to later learn that Furbobs were seriously considered for the second set of princesses!

So if I have to choose between them, I'd have to go with bushwoolies. I just really like that connection to the animated series. For me it outweighs a bunch of Spike recolors, even if it is a fun concept as well. Sadly I don't have nearly as strong feelings for the princess ponies as I do for their companions.  :P

13
Pony Corral / Re: Dragons or Bushwoolies?
« on: June 11, 2022, 02:14:03 AM »
Furbobs!  :biggrin:

14
Pony Corral / Re: POTD 6/1/2022 Molly & Baby Sundance
« on: June 04, 2022, 01:58:55 PM »
Love this set, just as I do Megan and Sundance! These two sets were such a great concept and really resonated with me when I was a child, as I grew up with a younger sibling. I didn't have or basically ever saw the actual toys for these characters, but knew them from books and the TV show.

The Molly doll has a much cuter face mold than Megan. Baby Sundance is probably my most essential baby pony. Her BBE mold is unfortunate. I used to think of her in the Ember pose when imagining what she would look like when I was a child (never knew about BBE back then). But now I'm starting to think having her in a NBBE mold would actually be kind of boring. Those original baby molds were reused so many times, at least being a BBE makes her a bit more unique.  :)

15
Pony Corral / Re: Reused symbols between generations?
« on: June 04, 2022, 01:35:53 PM »
Nice catch! I wonder if that graphic might've been part of some clip art collection Hasbro had access to (a lot of the later G2 symbols kind of feel like clip art)? That seems a bit more likely to me than them looking to an obscure european G2 baby to reuse their symbol for a G3.

Then again G2 was still somewhat fresh in memory back then. G3 Sunny Daze pretty much reused G2 Light Heart's color scheme. Petal Blossom exists in both G2 and G3 and is basically the same pony, but could possibly be a coincidence (a purple/pink combination with flower symbol isn't very unique).

I wonder if Hasbro US even was involved with the designs for the later european G2s? It doesn't feel like they were designed by the same people as the ponies from the first few years.

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