Gender neutral toy catalogue - opinions?

[ashes]

Meh - toys are toys.  However, I really don't seen what is wrong with identifying with a gender.  Why do things have to go so far as being gender neutral?  I'm not a man - I'm a woman, and proud to say so.  And I don't see what is wrong with celebrating the differences in the genders.  It gives us our rich tapestry as a society, and sometimes I think in the effort to be so "PC" nowadays, it takes away some of our individuality to become "the same."

Because gender neutrality means you don't have your life decided based on a 50/50 shot at birth. If advertisers, adults, and peers are constantly telling girls and boys "NO, PLAY WITH THIS TOY, YOU ARE A GIRL/BOY, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LIKE THIS TOY BECAUSE OF THAT", can you really call it their choice anymore?

Well, that's just the thing, isn't it?  I AM a woman, and I'm not going to base my whole life on a toy.  I believe that's a playing the victim to think that my life is based on a 50/50 shot at birth.  I take pride in the fact that I am different from men.  As a child I gravitated towards animals, not dolls - and my parents realized that and bought me lots of toy animals.  I also liked to draw, so they bought me pencils, paints, and gave me art lessons (and I am now a professional artist).  But I honestly think we sell ourselves short by having to make everything neutral to point where we now freak out when girls like princesses and boys like cars.  Some kids genuinely like those "traditional" toys, and they shouldn't be made to feel less because of it.  The whole neutrality thing is silly, IMO.  And that's all it is, my opinion. 
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[Honeycomb]

The whole neutrality thing is silly, IMO.  And that's all it is, my opinion. 

I agree.
I think people worry too much about things that don't really matter. It's always been said "dolls are for girls and cars for boys", but in the end kids choose whatever they want to play with. I don't think that gender-specific toys define what we are going to be.
IMO it would be weird if you gave a little boy a doll for a present, or a little girl a gun if you don't know that the kid actually likes those things. I bet most parents would feel rather disturbed and maybe even insulted.
I didn't like to play with baby dolls, but I loved to make my stuffed animals wear dolls clothes, and I adored Barbie. I loved dinosaurs and I remember cooking porridge and feeding them with my doll cutlery. My brother and me played Masters of the Universe together, but only when he was very little he grabbed my Barbies to play with me. Later on he didn't want to. I had a sword my dad made out of wood, and for a good mark in school I got a survival knife for which I had begged for ages. 

There are more important problems to solve in this world. 

[starrypawz]

I think gender roles are something grownups create.  A little boy doesn't know what toys he is "supposed" to play with until someone tells him so.  Same for girls.  At work tonight, we put on FiM for the kids.  A little girl groaned that she hated ponies, but then one of our little boys came in and was so excited!  Apparently he had been telling his mom the entire way over that he hoped we would have on ponies again.  Kids like what they like, when left to their own devices.

I think that's the crux of it, and then you have the influence of other children. I have also noticed that people seem more okay with a girl liking 'boys' things than a boy liking 'girls' things.

Saying that in school when I was quite young like reception level so I would have been about five I had really short hair and I remember getting picked on by someone in my class who said that having short hair made me a boy. (So I pursaded my mum to let me have my hair long and didn't like having it cut for years)
I then when I was a bit older, like about 9 I was thought as weird as I liked to take Asterix comics out of the school library and apparently 'comics are for boys'

Has anyone heard of 'Katie the Star Wars girl?' it was from a few years back and there was this girl who I think was about 8 or so who was getting really badly picked on because she came from a family of star wars fans so she was really into Star Wars and boys in her school were picking on her because 'Star Wars is for boys'

[Whippycorn]

Tha second link. 

IMO it would be weird if you gave a little boy a doll for a present, or a little girl a gun if you don't know that the kid actually likes those things. I bet most parents would feel rather disturbed and maybe even insulted.

To me the aim of neutrality is just this. When we reach a stage where parents are not disturbed or insulted if you give a little boy a doll or a little girl a dinosaur (or vice-versa) then we have neutrality.

It's not about stopping females from doing anything traditionally 'girly', it's just about allowing children to decide for themselves, free from the subtle pressures of adult bias, and the not-so-subtle pressures of advertising and peer-pressure.

I don't really understand why so many people are so uncomfortable about this idea. But then again, not that long ago most women thought the idea of a female vote was unnatural and ridiculous.

[StarDapple]

I think it's great that magazines like this are promoting gender neutral marketing.  I used to look at toy catalogs as a child, so it's not a stretch to me that another child might look at one and see that "Hey, that's a girl/boy playing with that toy, that means it's ok to play with that even though I am a girl/boy."

I'm very lucky in that my parents didn't mind what types of toys my brother and I wanted to play with.  I had Ponies and stuffed animals as well as dump trucks and Transformers.  Some kids aren't that lucky.  I can remember being at Wal-Mart only a couple of years ago, and I was looking in the girl's toy aisle.  A dad and his young son (maybe 5-6?) walked past and the son pointed at something in the girl's aisle and asked if he could have it.  The dad said "No, that's for girls."  I'd love it if toys could just be seen as toys, and not be denied to kids because of certain gender biases.

[Rosse]

I added a link to the full catalogue in the original post, if anyone is curious. It's really not that big of a deal if you look at it.

For those of the opinion that the concept of gender neutrality in instances like this is silly or unwarranted: as long as people, either kids or adults, are made to feel bad - by society, friends, parents etc - for making choices that are traditionally considered to be for the other sex, this fight needs to go on. Just the other day I saw a post on another forum from a concerned dad who's five year old son was playing with two Ken dolls who got married. He felt embarrassed and wanted his "cute macho son" back. It's for kids like that - and parents like that - we need things like gender neutral toy catalogues.

I don't think anyone is trying to make it wrong for girls to play princess, or boys to like cars. We're just trying to make it ok for it to be the other way around, too!

[Heliodor]

IMO it would be weird if you gave a little boy a doll for a present, or a little girl a gun if you don't know that the kid actually likes those things. I bet most parents would feel rather disturbed and maybe even insulted.

Yeah, that's because society created those rules. Rules where it would be weird if a little boy got a doll for a present, and a girl got a gun. In my house, it's not okay to be too "masculine" if you're female assigned at birth. Abuse happens because of it. And the stupid thing is, I love ponies; I even like pink, but I consider myself male and I want to do something about that which is just ~so not okay~. It's like 'You look like a man!' in a horrified tone if you come back with your hair chopped off, just like you want it; or if you buy male dress shoes, etc. If I didn't identify as male, and was cis but just butch (which is what everyone thinks right now), why should I have to get crap from others because I don't fit their BS gender categories? That's where I'm coming from on it. It's basically 'You don't fit into my BS gender categories that society taught me so I'm OFFENDED by the fact I can't place you comfortably in one, now I am going to demean, harass and abuse you!' Wtf is with that?? I heard about this on NPR and I was like ECSTATIC. Like

 

Yes, gender is some society-constructed BS. It can't be fair if it marginalizes people and it does. For all the males that legit like cars or whatever, there are the boys who don't, and they don't ~fit in~. Fit into what? Oh, these stupid categories everybody just made up and agreed on...gods I love Sweden. I was in Stockholm for a while and it was my fav. CONCLUSION, I THINK I NEED TO MOVE TO SWEDEN.

[octocorn]

I remember being 4 years old and taking my brand new Thundercats lunchbox to school, and being told that it was a boys lunchbox, so I must therefore be a boy, and had to sit with the boys at lunch.  And my only response was, "but I have My Little Pony shoes!"
More power to Sweden, and anyone else that shows that toys are TOYS.  No boy should feel bad about wanting a doll, and no girl should feel bad about wanting an action figure. I hope other catalogs follow suit. Especially since kids have been playing with whatever they want since forever anyway!

[HoustonCollector72]

I remember being 4 years old and taking my brand new Thundercats lunchbox to school, and being told that it was a boys lunchbox, so I must therefore be a boy, and had to sit with the boys at lunch.  And my only response was, "but I have My Little Pony shoes!"
More power to Sweden, and anyone else that shows that toys are TOYS.  No boy should feel bad about wanting a doll, and no girl should feel bad about wanting an action figure. I hope other catalogs follow suit. Especially since kids have been playing with whatever they want since forever anyway!

Especially since kids have been playing with whatever they want since forever anyway!

that is it!!

I had tons of barbies  (they were really my sister's Barbies)  LOL
we played with them ,we always had a blast.
they played with my cars and the action figures, I grew up with 4 sisters and 1 brother  so there was always more dolls than anything else.
Kids will play with what they want plain as that.

[xeevee]

Meh - toys are toys.  However, I really don't seen what is wrong with identifying with a gender.  Why do things have to go so far as being gender neutral?  I'm not a man - I'm a woman, and proud to say so.  And I don't see what is wrong with celebrating the differences in the genders.  It gives us our rich tapestry as a society, and sometimes I think in the effort to be so "PC" nowadays, it takes away some of our individuality to become "the same."

Because gender neutrality means you don't have your life decided based on a 50/50 shot at birth. If advertisers, adults, and peers are constantly telling girls and boys "NO, PLAY WITH THIS TOY, YOU ARE A GIRL/BOY, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LIKE THIS TOY BECAUSE OF THAT", can you really call it their choice anymore?

Well, that's just the thing, isn't it?  I AM a woman, and I'm not going to base my whole life on a toy.  I believe that's a playing the victim to think that my life is based on a 50/50 shot at birth.  I take pride in the fact that I am different from men.  As a child I gravitated towards animals, not dolls - and my parents realized that and bought me lots of toy animals.  I also liked to draw, so they bought me pencils, paints, and gave me art lessons (and I am now a professional artist).  But I honestly think we sell ourselves short by having to make everything neutral to point where we now freak out when girls like princesses and boys like cars.  Some kids genuinely like those "traditional" toys, and they shouldn't be made to feel less because of it.  The whole neutrality thing is silly, IMO.  And that's all it is, my opinion. 

And that is fine.  Gender neutrality doesn't say it's bad for a girl to play with 'girl toys'  it says there are no girl toys.  Which is good.  Girls can like princesses, that is fine.  Boys can like guns, that is fine too.  But it is also fine the other way around.  The Swedes weren't taking away pink princesses or blue guns, they were just showing everyone playing with everything.  My son hates dolls, and never has liked them, despite the fact he had them available to play with.  And he does like guns.  However, he likes playing with my little ponies, and before school started telling him what he had to like, his favourite colour was pink.  My daughter loves dolls, but she also likes shooting people with nerf guns.  Because kids like what they like and shouldn't be told what they like.

I guess it's like the whole Mothers day thing.  Remember when they used to tell you to buy your mum a vacuum cleaner for mothers day?  What a crappy present.  Society needs to stop telling people what they have to like.  You know what, I'm a woman, and I could give a crap about shoes.  My brother however owns hundreds of shoes.   

[Rosencrantz]

And that's all it is, my opinion. 

That's not a magic spell that means what you're saying isn't wrong, though.

Post Merge: November 28, 2012, 10:41:02 PM

Anyway, yay! Brilliant marketing move too. It doubles your potential toy audience when ALL the kids are told they can have the toy.

[Dibbles]

I'm very lucky in that my parents didn't mind what types of toys my brother and I wanted to play with.  I had Ponies and stuffed animals as well as dump trucks and Transformers.  Some kids aren't that lucky.  I can remember being at Wal-Mart only a couple of years ago, and I was looking in the girl's toy aisle.  A dad and his young son (maybe 5-6?) walked past and the son pointed at something in the girl's aisle and asked if he could have it.  The dad said "No, that's for girls."  I'd love it if toys could just be seen as toys, and not be denied to kids because of certain gender biases.

Me too!

I have witnessed a similar situation. I work at Target, and there was a little girl who asked her father if she could have a motocross figure with a bike. The dad replied, "Maddy, you don't want that! That's a BOY toy!" The fact that her father would have been willing to get her something more traditionally "feminine" but not the toy she really wanted bugs me. I wish there were more parents and siblings like the mom and sister who were getting a Monster High doll for a happy little boy.

[Beldarna]

I must've been living under a rock because I have not noticed this debate about the catalouge earlier. As many others I think it's just showing how kids play. For me, it's so clear I didn't even noticed what it was about in the beginning. I saw past the kids and just looked at the toys thinking what I wanted of the catalouge. I had to look an extra time and then it hit me, a girl with a gun, cool! A boy at a stowe, cool!

Amongst other things, one of my most priced possessions as a kid was a wooden shield and a wooden sword dad had made for me. He did one set for me and one for my brother. I was a formidable knight! Always loosing to my older and much stronger brother, but I never yielded! Besides this I had the cutest little pink dress with ruffles for whenever I wanted to play a princess.
His turtles rode on my mlps, my Barbie married his He-Man and we both watched MLP, Barbie, Jem, Turtles, James Bond Junior, X-Men and Transformers etc together with equal enthusiasm. Mom and dad never said anything against that. I turned out alright, I think.

[octocorn]

I'm very lucky in that my parents didn't mind what types of toys my brother and I wanted to play with.  I had Ponies and stuffed animals as well as dump trucks and Transformers.  Some kids aren't that lucky.  I can remember being at Wal-Mart only a couple of years ago, and I was looking in the girl's toy aisle.  A dad and his young son (maybe 5-6?) walked past and the son pointed at something in the girl's aisle and asked if he could have it.  The dad said "No, that's for girls."  I'd love it if toys could just be seen as toys, and not be denied to kids because of certain gender biases.

Me too!

I have witnessed a similar situation. I work at Target, and there was a little girl who asked her father if she could have a motocross figure with a bike. The dad replied, "Maddy, you don't want that! That's a BOY toy!" The fact that her father would have been willing to get her something more traditionally "feminine" but not the toy she really wanted bugs me. I wish there were more parents and siblings like the mom and sister who were getting a Monster High doll for a happy little boy.

I *hate* when I hear parents say that!  There was a little boy in the shop about a month ago playing with his mom's cell phone and he was dancing to some pop song and she grabbed the phone, turned it off, and told him "That's GIRLS music".  Seriously? No, it's just music. Kids hear a beat, they dance.

[kaoskat]

And that's all it is, my opinion. 

That's not a magic spell that means what you're saying isn't wrong, though.

It's also wrong to call someone else's opinions "wrong". By definition opinions can NOT be right OR wrong. Besides, you are missing ashes' point. It's not that she cares if girls play with "boy" toys or boys play with "girl" toys, it's that she's tired of seeing little girls who WANT to be princesses being told they can't because of this overcompensation humans are infamous for. And YES that happens. Ashes LIKES being girly and she should be allowed to be so without being made to feel like she's "wrong" for daring to want to be different from men. And frankly, I agree. I LIKE pink because I chose it. Not because I'm brainwashed by advertising as I have heard people suggest. I like being a princess and being treated as such. And that is ok too. If you don't like being traditional girly or manly that's fine, but don't say those who do are wrong. That's not any more right. EVERYONE needs to be allowed to be who they are.

She's refering to the fact that there is a push by some people to remove all traditional girly-ness or manly-ness from toys and frankly THAT is not ok. That's not fair to kids who like those things. There need to be "boy" toys, "girl" toys, and "either" toys. What there doesn't need to be is parents/friends/etc telling kids that they can't play with any of these toys they choose because they are a certain gender. They need to just be toys with no labels perhaps, but all of the current types need to remain. As I said in my original post, I'm sick of people trying to neuter or toys when it's just the attitudes that need neutering. I'm rather positive this is what ashes was getting at.