My pony collection or my spouse (serious advice)

[LadyMoondancer]

I agree with northstar and Taxel.

[northstar3184]

I'm worried for you from the very start because you say he subscribes to the Fight Club mentality, and from what I've seen, Fight Club is a toxic pit of self-destructive hypermasculinity that was never intended to be taken as any kind of life guide. (The dude who wrote it even said he wouldn't let his daughter date anyone who loved Fight Club!) But if he's okay otherwise, then I will assume this is simply one of his flaws you've learned to live with! It sounds like he needs to understand that a marriage isn't a cloning process; he may be a minimalist, and that's fine, but you don't have to be exactly the same as him! You're still your own person, even if you're married! If you can keep the spending to within a healthy, budgeted limit that you both agree is appropriate, he needs to back off!

She said he quotes a phrase from Fight Club, not that he subscribes to "The Fight Club mentality" There's a huge difference there. Someone can quote Romeo & Juliet; that doesn't mean they believe that couples should make suicide pacts.

And people keep going back to him using the expression "black rage" as if in using that phrase he's done some sort of wrong; it's just a phrase. Since he hasn't acted violently, I don't see why anyone would take it as more than that.

I really feel like the reactions here exemplify a move in society to paint men as abusive by default whenever there's a conflict in a relationship, and as a man I take great offense to that.

If others were in his shoes, living with his family, while the mother of his child is frivolously spending instead of contributing to bills or saving for their future, wouldn't you be angry? Wouldn't you feel as if you were being taken advantage of? Wouldn't you question that person's dedication to the couple's future when she's spending rather than setting savings aside to help get their own home? Would your reactions to this situation be different if the sexes were reversed?

Just my two cents as a man.

Honestly abuse is wrong to no matter what the gender of the person doing it. Women are actually frequently perpetrators of emotional abuse but it's often just laughed off as "nagging" despite it being just as damaging emotionally as when a guy does it to a woman.

It's not that he's upset but how he's handling it that's the issue. Balance is key but it seems like he is trying to force her to conform to his wishes with no regard for her wishes and tbh that's not healthy.

I don't see where he's mishandled anything. Although he initially said he wants the ponies gone, the OP has said in her most recent post that he seems happy with her getting rid of the duplicates. It sounds like his initial reaction of saying all the ponies need to go was just out of anger, rather than an attempt to control her. I don't see where there's a control issue or anything other than a father concerned that the bills get paid, their child comes first, and that he's standing up for himself and his child by make it clear that the recent spending/debt that has occurred is counter-productive to those priorities.

[Wardah]

I'm worried for you from the very start because you say he subscribes to the Fight Club mentality, and from what I've seen, Fight Club is a toxic pit of self-destructive hypermasculinity that was never intended to be taken as any kind of life guide. (The dude who wrote it even said he wouldn't let his daughter date anyone who loved Fight Club!) But if he's okay otherwise, then I will assume this is simply one of his flaws you've learned to live with! It sounds like he needs to understand that a marriage isn't a cloning process; he may be a minimalist, and that's fine, but you don't have to be exactly the same as him! You're still your own person, even if you're married! If you can keep the spending to within a healthy, budgeted limit that you both agree is appropriate, he needs to back off!

She said he quotes a phrase from Fight Club, not that he subscribes to "The Fight Club mentality" There's a huge difference there. Someone can quote Romeo & Juliet; that doesn't mean they believe that couples should make suicide pacts.

And people keep going back to him using the expression "black rage" as if in using that phrase he's done some sort of wrong; it's just a phrase. Since he hasn't acted violently, I don't see why anyone would take it as more than that.

I really feel like the reactions here exemplify a move in society to paint men as abusive by default whenever there's a conflict in a relationship, and as a man I take great offense to that.

If others were in his shoes, living with his family, while the mother of his child is frivolously spending instead of contributing to bills or saving for their future, wouldn't you be angry? Wouldn't you feel as if you were being taken advantage of? Wouldn't you question that person's dedication to the couple's future when she's spending rather than setting savings aside to help get their own home? Would your reactions to this situation be different if the sexes were reversed?

Just my two cents as a man.

Honestly abuse is wrong to no matter what the gender of the person doing it. Women are actually frequently perpetrators of emotional abuse but it's often just laughed off as "nagging" despite it being just as damaging emotionally as when a guy does it to a woman.

It's not that he's upset but how he's handling it that's the issue. Balance is key but it seems like he is trying to force her to conform to his wishes with no regard for her wishes and tbh that's not healthy.

I don't see where he's mishandled anything. Although he initially said he wants the ponies gone, the OP has said in her most recent post that he seems happy with her getting rid of the duplicates. It sounds like his initial reaction of saying all the ponies need to go was just out of anger, rather than an attempt to control her. I don't see where there's a control issue or anything other than a father concerned that the bills get paid, their child comes first, and that he's standing up for himself and his child by make it clear that the recent spending/debt that has occurred is counter-productive to those priorities.

Yes I can understand it might have just been in anger. I just hope it was a misunderstanding and he didn't seriously expect her to have no interests or hobbies of her own unless they fit into what he considered acceptable. I was in a relationship where I suppressed my interests and it was no bueno.

[Baby Sugarberry]

A significant other (of any gender) attempting to deny an activity of their partner's that is otherwise non-detrimental is cause for alarm.  Overspending into debt on a hobby /is/ detrimental, and reasonable grounds for concern, and not a good idea in any situation. 

None of us are in a position to properly evaluate what's going on here because all information is filtered through a single source.  That said, it's common sense to warn about things like emotional abuse and red flags in behaviour because they're often impossible to spot from the 'inside' if you don't have prior experience in an abusive relationship.  That's what makes them insidious.  Like the frog slowly brought up to the boiling point that remains in the pot, there's usually no one major incident that will shock someone into realizing they're in an unhealthy situation.  I'm not making any assignments of who is/isn't a problem in this given case, just pointing out a general trend.

[Snapdragon]

A significant other (of any gender) attempting to deny an activity of their partner's that is otherwise non-detrimental is cause for alarm.  Overspending into debt on a hobby /is/ detrimental, and reasonable grounds for concern, and not a good idea in any situation. 

None of us are in a position to properly evaluate what's going on here because all information is filtered through a single source.  That said, it's common sense to warn about things like emotional abuse and red flags in behaviour because they're often impossible to spot from the 'inside' if you don't have prior experience in an abusive relationship.  That's what makes them insidious.  Like the frog slowly brought up to the boiling point that remains in the pot, there's usually no one major incident that will shock someone into realizing they're in an unhealthy situation.  I'm not making any assignments of who is/isn't a problem in this given case, just pointing out a general trend.

Agreed with you! I tend to over-warn rather than under-warn when it comes to abuse (especially emotional), because the natural trend is "oh, he just got angry/she didn't mean it," because the average person does snap from time to time, and it's not a pattern of abuse. But in an abusive situation, it happens slowly, over a number of years, where you are worn down to the point where you actually begin to believe that the abuse is your fault, and it spreads from the simple beginnings of "well, she only yells when she's angry, and it's my fault she's angry because I messed up." So hearing a similar refrain - 'he goes into black rages, but it's my fault because I put us into debt' - immediately sets off red flags in my mind. Even minimizing the damage, like 'well it's not really that bad', like when zombie85chick backs off from the term 'black rages', can be a symptom of abuse.

It's possible that it's not abusive at all (and only zombie85chick can know that of course!), but I don't feel comfortable assuming the best in these situations. From a purely outside standpoint, there's no harm in saying 'this is a red flag for abuse'; the worst that happens is I'm mistaken about a man I'll never meet, and zombie85chick knows to keep an eye out for things getting worse. The best outcome is that it might be the first hint that this situation is not right for the victim, and might lead to them getting help. (Or, even a third party reading the thread thinks, "this sounds similar to my situation", and it helps them somehow.)

And just for clarification - in no way am I implying that being related to an abuser will automatically make you one! What I was trying to say (and perhaps misspoke!) was that our families form and mold us consciously as well as unconsciously, and it can take a lot of conscious effort to undo the unconscious lessons we've learned in bad situations, like with an abusive parent or a dysfunctional family. We learn coping methods as children in bad situations that are no longer useful tools when we are in new, safer situations. It's not a matter of becoming an abuser automatically, but perhaps emulating the only person who seemed to be "successful" in the toxic situation.

The reason I point this out is because of the symptoms that zombie85chick is describing - controlling behavior, yelling, over-frugality to the point of financial distress, over-compensating behaviors in that vein - may be symptoms that her husband is emulating his mother in more ways than he may realize. And that doesn't necessarily make him an abusive or bad partner, but it may mean that under stress, he reverts to bad habits.

Anyway, like I said, all of the best to you zombie85chick, you've gotten some great advice, and I hope everything works out well for you.

I'm worried for you from the very start because you say he subscribes to the Fight Club mentality, and from what I've seen, Fight Club is a toxic pit of self-destructive hypermasculinity that was never intended to be taken as any kind of life guide. (The dude who wrote it even said he wouldn't let his daughter date anyone who loved Fight Club!) But if he's okay otherwise, then I will assume this is simply one of his flaws you've learned to live with! It sounds like he needs to understand that a marriage isn't a cloning process; he may be a minimalist, and that's fine, but you don't have to be exactly the same as him! You're still your own person, even if you're married! If you can keep the spending to within a healthy, budgeted limit that you both agree is appropriate, he needs to back off!

She said he quotes a phrase from Fight Club, not that he subscribes to "The Fight Club mentality" There's a huge difference there. Someone can quote Romeo & Juliet; that doesn't mean they believe that couples should make suicide pacts.

And people keep going back to him using the expression "black rage" as if in using that phrase he's done some sort of wrong; it's just a phrase. Since he hasn't acted violently, I don't see why anyone would take it as more than that.
[...]
Just my two cents as a man.

Honestly abuse is wrong to no matter what the gender of the person doing it. Women are actually frequently perpetrators of emotional abuse but it's often just laughed off as "nagging" despite it being just as damaging emotionally as when a guy does it to a woman.

It's not that he's upset but how he's handling it that's the issue. Balance is key but it seems like he is trying to force her to conform to his wishes with no regard for her wishes and tbh that's not healthy.

[...]
I don't see where he's mishandled anything.

Here's the highlights that stood out to me:

[...]My husband is furious. He says it sends him into a black rage when he looks at my collection. He'll quote Fight Club at me "whatever you own ends up owning you" and how they don't make me happy. They're toys, materialistic garbage and he wants them gone. And he's furious about the amount of money I've spent. [...] would be heart broken to part with my collection.

Diminishing something that makes zombie85chick happy, not taking her feelings into account, demanding she conform to his beliefs through aggression and demeaning her/her interests; also, the use of "black rage" is his wording, not hers, which I missed the first time.

[...]sometimes he can put too much into savings out of his paycheck. To a point where he can only buy groceries once or can't really help buy baby clothes. I never fly off the handle because I know I've messed up.

[...] He gets angry and doesn't want to talk or will yell a little but nothing abusive. [...]

[...]He says I don't need them and to get rid of them all. He is also convinced that I'm one of 10 people that collect and they're most likely worthless. [...]

He says that he'll never like my ponies and wants be to get rid of them all our only have a handful. I wish there was just more of a middle ground. Not all or nothing. He prides himself on being a minimalist.

More descriptions of aggression/yelling, diminishing her by claiming there's only a few people who share this hobby (which would count as isolation, another tactic abusers can use), overreacting by claiming it's 'all or nothing' with her ponies (and that he should be the person who decides how many ponies she has), putting more financial burden on her by over-saving the money he should be spending on groceries/their baby, the implication that she's not allowed to get angry because the situation is 'her fault', and on and on. Although it's normal to be upset at a partner when they get into debt, there's red flags that something more serious than simple anger may be at play here.

Hope that helps!

[Vertefae]

My question is, if you had not spent so much on ponies would the groceries and baby clothes be such a big deal? I tend to over save, but I also allot enough for groceries and baby things. I panic if the bank account gets below a certain amount. If you're having to borrow money to pay bills, you've clearly overspent and I can't blame your husband being angry. If he had to pull money out of savings for an emergency, he could. What can you do with plastic horses?

I don't mean to sound mean and I hope you don't take it that way.

[northstar3184]

"The reason I point this out is because of the symptoms that zombie85chick is describing - controlling behavior, yelling, over-frugality to the point of financial distress, over-compensating behaviors in that vein - may be symptoms that her husband is emulating his mother in more ways than he may realize. And that doesn't necessarily make him an abusive or bad partner, but it may mean that under stress, he reverts to bad habits."

That's just it, I'm not seeing controlling behavior: He seems happy with her selling the duplicates. I don't see him being overly frugal: They have a baby and reside with his mother. Those two variables, in addition to regular bills, can and should cause any parent to be frugal with their money so that they can save for their own home and child's future. As far as yelling, what couple has never yelled?

From my vantage point as a guy, it really seems like in these situations men are in a catch-22: Be assertive and risk being characterized as controlling. Or don't be assertive and get regarded as a spineless doormat. He's taken the path of being assertive, thinking of the future and his child. And as a result, we're sitting here talking about red flags for abuse. If he were permissive about the spending, we'd be talking about how he doesn't have the backbone to stand up for his child and is allowing himself to be taken advantage of. It's a no-win.

[Pokeyonekenobie]

Aside from the couple's counselling that everyone has suggested, have you and your husband considered Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover?  It might help you a lot more than you realize.  Here's the website to the baby steps that get you on track for having control over your finances.

https://www.daveramsey.com/baby-steps

My brother and his wife went to Ramsey's "Financial Peace University" class because my brother spends money like a drunken sailor (I think it's because his love language is gift giving, so he likes to buy people things).  But they realized that it was a problem and they want to own their own home someday so they've taken the steps to get there.  They said it was super helpful and they don't argue about money anymore because they're on the same page now.  I don't know if the classes cost money but Dave Ramsey's books should be available at your local library.

[kasin]

I love the above comment about Dave Ramsey, he is very supportive while also dishing some tough love about the realities of money and family finances. I think it's important to have a encouraging environment when it comes to money since it's easy to feel hopeless and want to give up.

Northstar, I fallow your perspective from a XY point of view and I'm glad your responding to offer balance, we don't know enough to vilify this guy and with the known situation there is a good chance he is just looking out for what he feels is best for his family and child, we we should not pass judgment too quickly. Personally I'm staying neutral, we just don't know enough in my opinion.

Snapdragon, your first responce really upset me and I actually had to delete a responce I was starting to write because I was afraid I was taking it too personal.  the second response clarifying your comments about children growing up with a abusive parent did not make me feel any better, but now instead of angry I'm really depressed. This ignorant attitude is a stigma that older adoptees, Foster kids, kids in group homes  and all kinds of abuse survivor have to live with and many of us feel a need to hide. Your essentially blaming the victim  though I'm sure you don't realize it. I'm honestly kinda crushed reading this, the opinion you voice is all too common and it hurts so many children/people that have already been through so much.

[Stormness_1]

Wow... what a thread! By the title, I was thinking damn girl.. collection of course, and I've been married 5 years and am pregnant! But I was envisioning an innocent collector in all of this.. and boy, was I wrong. I read all of it, and the more I read, the more I think, "what the hell are these people doing?!" You two need to get on the same damn page! My husband and I have a similar situation, we're living with his dad and step-mum, trying to buy a house, and we have a baby on the way. But even though I'm the collector, I'm the frugal one.

How do we manage? We have both separate and joint bank accounts. We both have our wages deposited into our respective accounts, and pay a nominal amount into a bills account, which pays for the essentials + savings. Everything left is for us to spend how we see fit, with complete privacy if we so wish. We generally have an idea of about how much the other has left, but we're often intentionally vague around special occasions. Hubby is a total money pit. I have no idea where it goes sometimes.. it's insane. Sometimes I get annoyed at being the one propping up our savings when he gets slack, and I go on a shopping spree and put nothing in (for savings, I still pay bills!) for a fortnight, but then we talk about it, and we both get back on track.

But what you're describing is scary off-track! If you're in debt for ponies, that needs to stop RIGHT NOW. If he's over saving, that also needs to stop RIGHT NOW. Both are serious, and both are unhealthy when you have a child that depends on the two of you to live. Get yourselves together. I don't care how you do it - therapy, financial planners, whatever, but for the sake of your child, get it done. Financial issues are the worst kind of issues. They affect your trust, and incite self-justified greed and in some cases, eventuate in abuse. Bitterness, hate and regret are the results of this path you two are on, and your child had a front row seat - remember that  in all you do.

[Snapdragon]

northstar3184, I must have misunderstood, I thought we were talking about the subject at hand, not discussions of men in general. I think we're talking about two different things, hence the confusion!

I love the above comment about Dave Ramsey, he is very supportive while also dishing some tough love about the realities of money and family finances. I think it's important to have a encouraging environment when it comes to money since it's easy to feel hopeless and want to give up.

Northstar, I fallow your perspective from a XY point of view and I'm glad your responding to offer balance, we don't know enough to vilify this guy and with the known situation there is a good chance he is just looking out for what he feels is best for his family and child, we we should not pass judgment too quickly. Personally I'm staying neutral, we just don't know enough in my opinion.

Snapdragon, your first responce really upset me and I actually had to delete a responce I was starting to write because I was afraid I was taking it too personal.  the second response clarifying your comments about children growing up with a abusive parent did not make me feel any better, but now instead of angry I'm really depressed. This ignorant attitude is a stigma that older adoptees, Foster kids, kids in group homes  and all kinds of abuse survivor have to live with and many of us feel a need to hide. Your essentially blaming the victim  though I'm sure you don't realize it. I'm honestly kinda crushed reading this, the opinion you voice is all too common and it hurts so many children/people that have already been through so much.

Wow, I'm really sorry I gave that impression, I never intended to come across so callously! I don't think kids from dysfunctional families should ever feel ashamed! I just intended to help spread awareness about a topic that is often misunderstood and maligned, and possibly give aid to zombie85chick, whose husband would definitely benefit from understanding the dysfunctional situation he grew up in. The worst situation is to grow up with someone like the MIL and not realize how toxic it is until much, much later, so I hoped I could spare her some time and heartache. I googled a little bit and found a good, quick read about how dysfunctional families work, and how one can help oneself deal with the fallout from a bad family situation, including some book recommendations: http://www.twu.edu/downloads/counseling/E-5_Dysfunctional_Families_-_Recognizing_and_Overcoming_Their_Effects.pdf

[FantasticFirefly]

Just planned on popping here quickly for a fast read. I’m not in the best place at the moment, and didn’t plan on responding but I couldn’t leave this. so please take this with a grain of salt.

Looking through past posts.
-it was an ex that threw away the original collection.
-groceries/baby clothes. Hard to say what is sufficient or not with no frame of reference. Obviously if caloric/nutiritional needs are unmet, and a child is in filthy tattered too small clothing there is an issue. But, if it’s a case of no fun snacks- cookies, chips, etc or beverages like soda or juice (which add substantially to a grocery bill) while having cheap yet healthy filling food with tapwater, and having to do laundry a little more often, but still a sufficient amount of appropriate comfort/fit clothing then he would be correct to continue to be frugal at this present moment.
-the man is living with what sounds like a potential NPD parent, with his wife and infant while they are going to school. NO WONDER he is “over-saving”. He is so stressed he vomited blood from getting a stomach ulcer. For those who have never been the winner of a stomach ulcer from crushing stress, it is a very unique special kind of misery you don’t wish on your worst enemy. It’s truly, truly horrible. Terrified of eating anything, what will react and terrified knowing not eating anything will result in pain too. The treatment drugs are not exactly fun either.

I am making assumptions here. But my suspicion is he wants the heck out of that house and keep OP and his child safe from his mothers toxic influence, but not until there is enough saved to cover enough independent expenses as well as some for infrequent costs (i.e new tires for a car, they wear out eventually) and emergencies- so when you’re out of there you aren’t stuck in the pay to pay trap and the first surprise expense doesn't in a disaster of panic and stress, borrowing money or going to a payday store in desperation. I am also assuming they are cramped together in a smaller area together with all of their belongings and the clutter accumulating from collecting in that shared space is a constant visual reminder of over spending and what he sees as totally misplaced priorities.

I would be in a silent rage if my spouse and I were cramped with a relative like that and I see blu rays and video games piling up in our shared space- something he enjoys collecting- while I feverishly save to get us the heck out of dodge. My spouse has a large collection, and collects responsibly. I don’t get excited about them or anything, essentially zero interest for me, but I am pleased  to see him happy when he picks up one he enjoys. But, he can go months without acquiring anything new for that collection and enjoying the ones he has when we need to cut way back. Easily. If the pony collecting appears like a never-ending acquiring/buying fest- then it does appear to an outsider that they “couldn’t make you happy”. Because if they did, you could be content and enjoy the present ones for now without adding more while other goals are of higher priority. Under stress too I do see the temptation of uplift of a new score for a collector- it can get addicting.

 Please have a sitdown with him. Is there a goal amount he is working towards for an EF (emergency fund) or other saving goals? Why are they important to him- please find this out, the hows and whys of his saving and current money stress.

Both Dave Ramsey as well as Gail Vaz Oxlade (she’s the Canadian counterpart) are both good reading for financial literacy, and why things like staying out of consumer/personal debt, budgeting, and planned spending emergency saving are important, and how to calculate how much you’ll need to achieve what you each want. I didn’t read as much of Ramsey’s work, but Vaz Oxlade does a great job breaking things down, and how to communicate about money with a spouse and plan goals together.

I adore pony collecting, but please don’t let it hurt other areas of your life or loved ones. <3

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I agree with FantasticFirefly.  If this is a situation in which nobody is happy to be cramped up with their controlling MIL (or mother), with a small baby, with no savings or emergency fund, and there are personal health issues to be addressed that are being caused by the toxic stress.... removing yourselves from that situation HAS to come first.

We as collectors like to enable a lot, and claim there are lots of reasons to have a collection, but it's only viable in a healthy situation. 

If the spouse is saving every penny he receives to try and give his family some independence, while the other spouse is constantly online shopping and filling up the house with colourful plastic, I would go into a "black rage" too!  In my house, right now we are trying to get our credit card below a certain number, which is VERY reliant on not eating fast food, not picking up anything at Value Village, etc.  None of our usual "fun" things.  I cross my eyes and groan everytime my husband says, "Well the kid behaved so I got her a Happy Meal" and I'm like.... AUUUUUGH that was another swipe of the CC... 

I would use this time to evaluate WHY you collect.  Do you like to brush and style them?  Is it the thrill of "another box on the doorstep"?  Because if it's actually a shopping addiction and that's the part that feels fun and good, you really have to say no to yourself.  If you're borrowing from other people to feed your addiction and cover your bills then you really do need to slow down.

Best of luck figuring all out this.  And most of all, best of luck in getting away from the NPD MIL... those are no fun and soon she will begin her mind games on your child as well!    Narcissists are masters of manipulation and they have no qualms about playing their games with children. 

[northstar3184]

"The reason I point this out is because of the symptoms that zombie85chick is describing - controlling behavior, yelling, over-frugality to the point of financial distress, over-compensating behaviors in that vein - may be symptoms that her husband is emulating his mother in more ways than he may realize. And that doesn't necessarily make him an abusive or bad partner, but it may mean that under stress, he reverts to bad habits."

That's just it, I'm not seeing controlling behavior: He seems happy with her selling the duplicates. I don't see him being overly frugal: They have a baby and reside with his mother. Those two variables, in addition to regular bills, can and should cause any parent to be frugal with their money so that they can save for their own home and child's future. As far as yelling, what couple has never yelled?

From my vantage point as a guy, it really seems like in these situations men are in a catch-22: Be assertive and risk being characterized as controlling. Or don't be assertive and get regarded as a spineless doormat. He's taken the path of being assertive, thinking of the future and his child. And as a result, we're sitting here talking about red flags for abuse. If he were permissive about the spending, we'd be talking about how he doesn't have the backbone to stand up for his child and is allowing himself to be taken advantage of. It's a no-win.

Snapdragon, I am discussing the matter at hand. My whole post above is about this situation. Yes, I am also making a point about how the situation exemplifies a societal over-eagerness to pinpoint men as abusers/potential abusers when no such evidence exists.  All of the posts that suggest possible abuse, despite no evidence thereof, illustrate this point.

[Dragonflitter]

When I first started collecting ponies, I bought a lot of them too! I had quite a quick-growing collection... and then I realized I was a bit short on rent.  It's a learning experience, so don't beat yourself up too much about it. But also keep in mind how easy it was for you to buy these ponies. Make sure you learn from your learning experience!

Like you said in your first post, many toys from 20 and 30 years ago are still easy to find, online. So if you need to sell some of your collection, even more than just your duplicates, just tell yourself how fun it will be to track down these characters again when you have a little more money. I had to do that too. I had to get rid of G1 Night Cap and G1 Pillow Talk and I was sad, but then I found them again later when my rent wasn't in jeopardy and now they are part of my collection once again.