DHX hit with major data breach (beware of spoilers)

[Taffeta]

I'd like for this to appeal to kids again.

Plenty of kids still like MLP:FIM tho. There's nothing about how MLP is currently that doesn't appeal to kids. Unless you mean only appeal to kids by being as mind numbing as G3.5 was.

You do know that appealing to kids does not equal mind numbing right? We don't necessarily need adult-pandering to make it entertaining for us.

True enough. If you look at the kind of tv shows a lot of us grew up with, there were a lot of complex ideas involved in them which kids were expected to understand. I think LAW meant a line aimed at the kids and their interest rather than pandying to adult fans like G4 has occasionally with the bronies. MLP is fundamentally a toy for children. I agree that they ought to be the focus, so maybe Hasbro should be asking kids what they like and don't like about MLP.

[Zapper]

I'd like for this to appeal to kids again.

Plenty of kids still like MLP:FIM tho. There's nothing about how MLP is currently that doesn't appeal to kids. Unless you mean only appeal to kids by being as mind numbing as G3.5 was.

You do know that appealing to kids does not equal mind numbing right? We don't necessarily need adult-pandering to make it entertaining for us.

True enough. If you look at the kind of tv shows a lot of us grew up with, there were a lot of complex ideas involved in them which kids were expected to understand. I think LAW meant a line aimed at the kids and their interest rather than pandying to adult fans like G4 has occasionally with the bronies. MLP is fundamentally a toy for children. I agree that they ought to be the focus, so maybe Hasbro should be asking kids what they like and don't like about MLP.

Most toy companies should do that instead of throwing money at business experts and years of researching consumer behaviour.
And most importantly, remove their parents and let the asking be done by another kid so these kids can answer as freely as possible.
There is a little boy in my family who never plays with dolls when his parents are around because even that toddler knows that papa will say "no!". So when I sit him he behaves differently.

I'm reminded of that Barbie project, "the doll evolves". Kids were given the new Barbies and one girl immediatly said about the curvy body "she is fat" because that's what she thought they wanted to hear.
On the other hand Mattel also had that spy Barbie who could send infos straight to Mattel and LOL that was a bad idea

https://www.google.de/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/26/hackers-can-hijack-wi-fi-hello-barbie-to-spy-on-your-children

[Al-1701]

If anything, I find the brony pandering to be more mind numbing than appealing to kids.  Kids are a lot smarter than many give them credit for, and if your read the concept material for the toys and media in the 80's you would see an understanding for that.  Unfortunately for the media, Hasbro was cheap.  Though now we have the worse problem of Hasbro being cheap on the toy side.

[Zapper]

if your read the concept material for the toys and media in the 80's you would see an understanding for that.

And where can we read it?

[Leave a Whisper]

Taffeta hit it right on the head. That is precisely what I meant. Two examples.

My Neighbor Totoro is a touching, beautiful, heartfelt movie. We got to see the perspective of two kids who were enamored with their new home, nature and a touch of fantasy through the spirit world. There was a bright, simple joy in their interactions. We felt their sadness, hope, uncertainty and fear with their sick mother.  It could deal with more mature themes without the proverbial: Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, cringe, cringe.

Shrek has adult nods and winks that would sail over younger kids heads, but teens and parents would smirk and/or cringe. I don't mind pop-culture references but there is such a thing as overdoing it. The message behind it was good however. Still adult pandering was unnecessary and I felt it cheapened the movie.

[Zapper]

Shrek has adult nods and winks that would sail over younger kids heads, but teens and parents would smirk and cringe. I don't mind pop-culture references but there is such a thing as overdoing it. The message behind it was good however. Still adult pandering was unnecessary and I felt it cheapened the movie.

Except that Shrek was a parody and especially the first two played with Disney stereotypes and made fun of them. So the adult humor was intended to be in there all along.

I'd also like to know what you think about Disney's Aladdin in that case. Because that movie virtually started the pop culture reference trend and is still regarded as a great kids movie despite no kid gets that Genie is Rodney Dangerfield in that one scene. The genie didn't need to do these jokes, they were just in there for the adults of the early 90s and aged terribly. But since it was in there from the start it never bothered me personally.

Pop culture refs and adult jokes, especially pandering to a secondary fanbase were never part of MLP before FiM. Not even Tales that arguably took place in a human world had that.

So it bothers me in MLP and not in Shrek or Aladdin. I think one of the worst was when they wanted Twilight to look like Solid Snake so they wrote an entire episode around that outfit to justify it. Their idea was just "hey what if FiM had a crossover with Metal Gear Solid? It's a thing geeks know about so it's funny!" Stuff like that is simply ??? to me. The MGS joke returned in a later episode.
https://www.google.de/amp/s/kotaku.com/theres-metal-gear-solid-hiding-in-this-weeks-my-little-1705055248/amp

Now putting an exact copy of Toola Roola in an episode makes sense because it is MLP despite it being nothing more than a service to older fans/adults.

[Leave a Whisper]

Shrek has adult nods and winks that would sail over younger kids heads, but teens and parents would smirk and cringe. I don't mind pop-culture references but there is such a thing as overdoing it. The message behind it was good however. Still adult pandering was unnecessary and I felt it cheapened the movie.

Except that Shrek was a parody and especially the first two played with Disney stereotypes and made fun of them. So the adult humor was intended to be in there all along.

I'd also like to know what you think about Disney's Aladdin in that case. Because that movie virtually started the pop culture reference trend and is still regarded as a great kids movie despite no kid gets that Genie is Rodney Dangerfield in that one scene. The genie didn't need to do these jokes, they were just in there for the adults of the early 90s and aged terribly. But since it was in there from the start it never bothered me personally.

Pop culture refs and adult jokes, especially pandering to a secondary fanbase were never part of MLP before FiM. Not even Tales that arguably took place in a human world had that.

So it bothers me in MLP and not in Shrek or Aladdin. I think one of the worst was when they wanted Twilight to look like Solid Snake so they wrote an entire episode around that outfit to justify it. Their idea was just "hey what if FiM had a crossover with Metal Gear Solid? It's a thing geeks know about so it's funny!" Stuff like that is simply ??? to me. The MGS joke returned in a later episode.
https://www.google.de/amp/s/kotaku.com/theres-metal-gear-solid-hiding-in-this-weeks-my-little-1705055248/amp

Now putting an exact copy of Toola Roola in an episode makes sense because it is MLP despite it being nothing more than a service to older fans/adults.

Please re-read my post, as I did say that I don't mind pop culture references.I just think they overdid it a bit. Looney Tunes had plenty of references to celebrities and movies and is one of my favorite cartoons to this day. It's older then Aladdin.

As for Aladdin, yes I know there were tons of them. As for adult content, I've never heard the rumored and infamous: Take off your clothes line. I listened real hard. But Abu did say Oh crap! (except it was the S word) twice in the cave of wonders. I wonder if Disney ever caught that?

Past gen referencing is fine because its part of a series own history and heritage.


My Little Pony n Friends did have Knight Shade.

[Zapper]

I did read your post and just wanted to point out that Shrek overdoing the referencing was part of what Shrek was supposed to be. Be a parody. Of course it's ok to dislike the amount of refs in there but it's probably not the best example in comparison with FiM because FiM is not an MLP parody.
No offense intended.

I also don't mind small pop culture refs for the parents and older siblings. I just think they should make sense for MLP.
A good example, imo, would be Rarity's Titanic dress in the boat episode. Rarity is the fashionista and known for wearing multiple dresses, so in one of the story versions she is wearing Rose's dress plus hat.
It works because to kids it's just Rarity having another diva moment but for older people who have seen Titanic it's this little "haha!" moment.
Now if they had put Rose and Jack ponies on a door in the background of the ocean my eyes would have rolled out of my skull

[Leave a Whisper]

I did read your post and just wanted to point out that Shrek overdoing the referencing was part of what Shrek was supposed to be. Be a parody. Of course it's ok to dislike the amount of refs in there but it's probably not the best example in comparison with FiM because FiM is not an MLP parody.
No offense intended.

I also don't mind small pop culture refs for the parents and older siblings. I just think they should make sense for MLP.
A good example, imo, would be Rarity's Titanic dress in the boat episode. Rarity is the fashionista and known for wearing multiple dresses, so in one of the story versions she is wearing Rose's dress plus hat.
It works because to kids it's just Rarity having another diva moment but for older people who have seen Titanic it's this little "haha!" moment.
Now if they had put Rose and Jack ponies on a door in the background of the ocean my eyes would have rolled out of my skull

Please don't. That sounds agonizingly painful.  But that's why I felt Shrek (and its horrible sequels) were cheapened. Which is a shame, because Dreamworks has made some wonderful, heartfelt movies that captures the imagination of kids and adults alike without all that. How to Train Your Dragon and Spirit Stallion of the Cimarron are amazing movies. Did they do the Guardians movie? You know, the one about the holiday icons?

My Little Pony and Friends, Tales and G3 were there own self-contained worlds for the most part and Friends in particular is enchanting. FiM should have stuck with that.

[tulagirl]

Taffeta hit it right on the head. That is precisely what I meant. Two examples.

My Neighbor Totoro is a touching, beautiful, heartfelt movie. We got to see the perspective of two kids who were enamored with their new home, nature and a touch of fantasy through the spirit world. There was a bright, simple joy in their interactions. We felt their sadness, hope, uncertainty and fear with their sick mother.  It could deal with more mature themes without the proverbial: Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, cringe, cringe.

Shrek has adult nods and winks that would sail over younger kids heads, but teens and parents would smirk and/or cringe. I don't mind pop-culture references but there is such a thing as overdoing it. The message behind it was good however. Still adult pandering was unnecessary and I felt it cheapened the movie.

I totally agree with you here Law.  I absolutely love Totoro and the depth of this film as well as, the celebration of childhood. I agree completely that MLP is for our young children.  There is nothing wrong with liking it as an adult.  Plenty of people adore Mickey Mouse and have for centuries.  I have heard some pretty jaw dropping statements from the young children about the adult fans of G4.  You would think they would miss it, but for the kids I have a lot of contact with...they find it almost frightening.  It makes them uncomfortable and confuses them.  I for one don't blame them for feeling that way.  It has confused me too.  I am not saying all kids respond this way, but several I know have.  I am also not talking about all collectors and all fans of ponies.  I am just talking about one particular group of fans that seem to freak my young relatives out quite a bit.  So, don't take my post the wrong way. It is not an attack on anyone, just an observation of mine.

I have not taken a look at the spoiler content but, I am really hoping we are not staying with the same characters as that to me is a huge disappointment.  Why can't we create something new with new characters?  I really would like to see something all new and not just elements of the familiar with a tweek to the drawing to make it look slightly different.  However, I may be in the minority opinion with that.  As far as targeting an older audience this would be a huge mistake in my opinion.  Why would they do that?  Leaving young children behind and just creating a young adult and teen version of MLP would be so messed up-I am without words.

[Leave a Whisper]

Taffeta hit it right on the head. That is precisely what I meant. Two examples.

My Neighbor Totoro is a touching, beautiful, heartfelt movie. We got to see the perspective of two kids who were enamored with their new home, nature and a touch of fantasy through the spirit world. There was a bright, simple joy in their interactions. We felt their sadness, hope, uncertainty and fear with their sick mother.  It could deal with more mature themes without the proverbial: Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, cringe, cringe.

Shrek has adult nods and winks that would sail over younger kids heads, but teens and parents would smirk and/or cringe. I don't mind pop-culture references but there is such a thing as overdoing it. The message behind it was good however. Still adult pandering was unnecessary and I felt it cheapened the movie.

I totally agree with you here Law.  I absolutely love Totoro and the depth of this film as well as, the celebration of childhood. I agree completely that MLP is for our young children.  There is nothing wrong with liking it as an adult.  Plenty of people adore Mickey Mouse and have for centuries.  I have heard some pretty jaw dropping statements from the young children about the adult fans of G4.  You would think they would miss it, but for the kids I have a lot of contact with...they find it almost frightening.  It makes them uncomfortable and confuses them.  I for one don't blame them for feeling that way.  It has confused me too.  I am not saying all kids respond this way, but several I know have.  I am also not talking about all collectors and all fans of ponies.  I am just talking about one particular group of fans that seem to freak my young relatives out quite a bit.  So, don't take my post the wrong way. It is not an attack on anyone, just an observation of mine.

I have not taken a look at the spoiler content but, I am really hoping we are not staying with the same characters as that to me is a huge disappointment.  Why can't we create something new with new characters?  I really would like to see something all new and not just elements of the familiar with a tweek to the drawing to make it look slightly different.  However, I may be in the minority opinion with that.  As far as targeting an older audience this would be a huge mistake in my opinion.  Why would they do that?  Leaving young children behind and just creating a young adult and teen version of MLP would be so messed up-I am without words.

Hear hear!

[Al-1701]

I'd say My Little Pony should appeal to children, the child in all of us.  You don't need the pop culture references or humor meant to go over little kid's heads.  I'd say the change I would make is get back to some of those whimsical adventures you saw in 80's and 90's like the pilot mini-series for the Disney Afternoon shows.  Those were fun for all ages.  It's candy-colored ponies who talk and live in a magical world, can't we do something other than Aesop slice of life?

I think trying to just make the same characters over and over would not work with ponies like it does with the Transformers.  The Transformers have the same characters but also the same over-story: the Autobots and Decepticons have been fighting over Cybertron and their war has come to Earth.  The details are changed with each iteration, but the archetypes are always the same.  The Autobots have a valiant leader (Optimus Prime), and the Decepticons are led by a power-crazed despot (Megatron) with a scheming second in command (Starscream).

My Little Pony doesn't have that set story, and Friendship is Magic is not the story they should be set on.  A new story should bring in new archetypes and new characters.  And a completely new set of characters would appeal to young children coming into the brand because they would be on the same footing as the older kids.  They would be their ponies like the Mane 6 were the ponies of their older siblings.

[Taffeta]

I think it;s about balance. It;s not always about pop culture, either. I mean, several UK kids shows I grew up with as a very small child contained some very politically pointed comments. Jimbo and the Jet Set featured a small aeroplane called Jimbo (not Jumbo) because the measurements when he was made was messed up due to government meddling in measurements (this referencing the UK govt decision to mostly switch from imperial to metric, albeit that switch has never totally completed). Jimbo often made digs at things relating to real airlines (ie noise complaints and stuff). Bertha, another young kids' show about a factory machine, features at least one episode in which the factory are on a union strike.

I couldn't find the first Jimbo episode but the Bertha one is still on Youtube for anyone who is bored and wants to watch some really old UK kids TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o6SF-EOhi8

Even in US shows like the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, sometimes Raphael's smart humour was intended more for older viewers (maybe a throwback to the comic it came from?) The thing is, it wasn't uncommon for TV shows to do this in the past. But there's a way to do it in which kids watching aren't bothered by it, but the parents get something out of it. And then there are shows like Jem, in which they featured "Lena Lerner" in one episode... But Jem was aimed a little older, and had some very frighteningly complex concepts going on in it such as contracts and collateral...

Even MLP of the 1980s arguably referenced other contexts for the shows. Ice Cream Wars was very likely influenced by real violent clashes over ice cream in Glasgow in 1982 (lets not forget the terribly fake scottish accents involved in this episode).

And it doesn't hurt to reference pop culture that resonates with kids. I mean, every single twist on ideas from fairy tails or stuff like that is often appreciated by kids who get the joke and the reference.


But if the show becomes entirely tailored around a particular concept then it loses its own identity. And the fact that there are still Cheese Sandwich toys in my branch of Entertainer kind of makes me think that FIM may have fallen into that trap. Also, cultural references potentially alienate audiences for which those references are meaningless, ie because they aren't relevant to that country. So they're a risky thing if you're going to use them all the time.

I don't mind MLP referencing stuff, but I would want to see it referencing stuff for and around the kids first and foremost, not taking it outside of that sphere when it doesn't need to be.

Re the mane 6, I'll reiterate what I said before. If hasbro reboot the franchise but keep the same pony cast entirely, it's not Gen 5, it's 4.5. We have the precedent of G3.5 for that...it's only a full new generation if the cast and the setting are both new and significantly different from previous releases. Thus far all I've seen is some potential concept art for something that looks like someone doodled G4 ponies in a different mould. Unless there's more to offer and most of the mane 6 will disappear, we're still in Gen 4.

I guess that would mean there's room for potatoes still in gen 5.

[Lilja]

Re the mane 6, I'll reiterate what I said before. If hasbro reboot the franchise but keep the same pony cast entirely, it's not Gen 5, it's 4.5. We have the precedent of G3.5 for that...it's only a full new generation if the cast and the setting are both new and significantly different from previous releases. Thus far all I've seen is some potential concept art for something that looks like someone doodled G4 ponies in a different mould. Unless there's more to offer and most of the mane 6 will disappear, we're still in Gen 4.

I've been thinking people might've been a little too quick to call the new brushable figures "G4.5", when we don't know what's going to follow. I don't know if many still remember it now, but right before G3.5 there was a very subtle reboot in G3 when the "core 7" concept was introduced. Some characters were reworked (names/colors/cutie marks were changed), and there was a new pose which all the ponies shared up to G3.5. But stylewise they still looked like the previous G3s, so we would never have considered it a new generation.

In G1 we saw a lot of changes during its course, but it was still always the same "generation". Even if the characters changed every year, and their world became less fantastical and more like our human society as we got to Tales.

It'll be fun to see what we get after G4 ends. If it's different enough that we can consider it a new generation. But I'm sure our conception of what is "a generation" has shifted since the G1/G2/G3 days. The fact that "G4.5" caught on so easily I think is a clear indication of that.

[blayzekohime]

I've seen very little panicking over G5 in the brony community. There's a lot of bronies that recognize G4 is close to (or well past) squeezing everything they can out of the setting. I've seen a lot of ex-bronies saying they'd come back to check it out even. Many are excited by the news that G5 may target an older audience and have more episode-to-episode continuity like a proper adventure show. Not to mention the concept sounds really cool and will allow for an expansive universe with lots of different creatures as well as conflicts between them. And the new locations! The concept art for Neon City is amazing, and I'm excited to see the merchandise it spawns.

When I see people here hating on bronies, I feel like I'm missing something. I don't see bronies hating on collectors, and I've never had bronies hate on me when I talk about things I liked in older gens. I wrote a fanfic with G1 ponies in it, and had a friend write one with G3 ponies inspired by it, and both got 95%+ upvotes on fimfiction. Besides, doesn't the popularity result in more for us to collect?