DHX hit with major data breach (beware of spoilers)

[Dragonflitter]

S8 HnH Day episode spoiler:

Spoiler

So in S8 we get a new Hearts 'n Hooves Day episode focused on Big Mac and Sugar Belle. And in this episode, Lyra and Bonbon give each other gifts and a big hug during a montage of ponies celebrating Hearts 'n Hooves Day! I think this is pretty much the clearest 'hint' we'll get that they are meant to be a couple. Not that you can't make the argument that friends get each other gifts during Valentine's Day (I've even bought little stuff for my own friends on Valentine's) but because it was in a montage of couples celebrating the holiday, I think that's a pretty big indication without having them, like, come out and say they're getting married or something like that. It's short and subtle, and still a little "safe" and ambiguous, but I do like it.

Although I have to roll my eyes at yet another instance of brony fans "getting what they want", because the Lyra/Bonbon relationship is one of the biggest ships in the online community, I also really support the appearance of same-gender relationships in kids media and I think we need more of them. Nickalodeon took a daring step in their cartoon The Loud House by having a boy in it with two dads. They also had a girl/girl relationship in their cartoon The Legend of Korra, although by the time that relationship was revealed, the show had moved off of TV and was only streamed online. I like that MLP FiM is also taking some steps forward in this regard.

[Al-1701]

But everyone hates Bayformers Optimus Prime, and it's finally caught up with the movies.  Megs and Starscream are crazy, but they're villains.  And the Mane 6 are far past quirks at this point.

But their toys still sell. Even the Bayformers sell really well. My point was that the characterization didn't stop people from loving the legacy characters. Starscream wasn't even recognizable in toy form but he sold.
What critics said didn't stop them from making 5 movies because the money was still coming in  Only the latest one was somewhat of a dud financially. So I guess these kind if things do not bother the masses and only bother longtime fans.

I blame the "success" of the movies on the Bad Car Accident Syndrome.  People are going to see these movies specifically to see how bad they are.  Unfortunately, the Bad Car Accident Syndrome can only get you so far before you being so bad loses its novelty.  The Bayformers have reached that point.

As for the toys, I think it's the history of the Transformers that sell them more than the movies.  Optimus Prime might be terrible in the movies, but we know him from so many other places, that his fans are still going to get the toy.  Besides, even if the character is bad, the movie designs of him have always looked cool.

And toy forms being different has not dampened people's love of the characters in toy form.  Ratchet's toy didn't have a head, but kids still went out to buy the Autobot's medic and scientist.  So Starscream is now a more modern jet which makes his robot form different, he's still Starscream.

If the ponies are quirky or insane is in the eye of the beholder. Imo, they only used "insane faces" when they wanted to do over the top physical humor with them (which kids seem to love). I could do without that. Which is why in my perfect G5 I would tone it down.
I would keep Rarity's dramatics, tho

I'll take the steadily declining ratings of the show and reports of the peg warmers in the stores as a sign G4 has worn out its welcome.  Maybe I was just strange, but I needed to take breaks from wacky cartoons and find less over the top things to watch.  MLP had been one of those things.

[Taffeta]

Spoiler

S8 HnH Day episode spoiler:

Spoiler

So in S8 we get a new Hearts 'n Hooves Day episode focused on Big Mac and Sugar Belle. And in this episode, Lyra and Bonbon give each other gifts and a big hug during a montage of ponies celebrating Hearts 'n Hooves Day! I think this is pretty much the clearest 'hint' we'll get that they are meant to be a couple. Not that you can't make the argument that friends get each other gifts during Valentine's Day (I've even bought little stuff for my own friends on Valentine's) but because it was in a montage of couples celebrating the holiday, I think that's a pretty big indication without having them, like, come out and say they're getting married or something like that. It's short and subtle, and still a little "safe" and ambiguous, but I do like it.

Although I have to roll my eyes at yet another instance of brony fans "getting what they want", because the Lyra/Bonbon relationship is one of the biggest ships in the online community, I also really support the appearance of same-gender relationships in kids media and I think we need more of them. Nickalodeon took a daring step in their cartoon The Loud House by having a boy in it with two dads. They also had a girl/girl relationship in their cartoon The Legend of Korra, although by the time that relationship was revealed, the show had moved off of TV and was only streamed online. I like that MLP FiM is also taking some steps forward in this regard.

This is a controversial opinion, but the name of Sweetie Drops/BonBon itself is a problem. If Hasbro has control over their ponies, you'd expect consistency. I know that in G1, you see random weird pony names like Lilac for Princess Amethyst/Sparkle and there are name differences between countries (also seen in G2, not seen in G3 or G4). But the fact that the pony still has two names at this point is bothersome to me, especially since I've seen fans get so emotionally involved in whether to call her Bon Bon or Sweetie Drops. Not that it matters which name anyone prefers, if that's what they want to use, but the fact Hasbro don't seem to be able to control the naming of a pony suggests they really don't have as much control over this generation as they ought to.

As for the idea of slashing ponies, fans are going to do that to everything no matter how much sense it makes. The Jem comic is proof of that. The Kimber/Stormer slash is only popular from the original canon among a very small minority of fans, and yet it went into the comic as though it were absolute canon. I don't mind same sex relationships and I don't see why kids shouldn't be exposed to themes of difference like that, but there needs to be a division between fan fantasy and actual canon. In the case of Kimber and Stormer, if the comic wanted to make that a thing, they needed to actually create the backstory and scenario that made it convincing, rather than just jumping on it as fact. It bothers me even now that that segment of Jem fans didn't seem to understand that friendship exists as well as attraction and love, and it sounds like the slashing of Lyra and Sweetie Drops is the same thing. No wonder they don't get that the theme of the show is about friendship, if they are trying to read non-platonic relationships into anything where two characters of the same gender speak to one another.

Unfortunately fans in all fandoms do this, but I have never understood why.

[Zapper]

Taffeta, you have the entire main cast to show platonic friendship 
Personally, as a B girl in an L relationship I like to be thrown a miserable vague, maybe canon (?) bread crump once in a while.
Hasbro cares too much about money to introduce a real gay couple anyways. It's always the same; big companies are not interested in showing minorities if they can't cash in on them somehow.

Spoiler

I thought the hug was super sweet and inoffensive. Not all f/f shippers are straight creepy men

As for the shoutouts, I maintain the later seasons did them better. Yes you have fanon mixed in with Muffins being the mail carrier and that 100th episode that I never managed to watch in full because it was too cringey for me.
But I'll take inoffensive fanons about almost mute backgrounders over creepy easter eggs in the form of Slenderpony, or animators making their self-insert characters canon.

I hope any current fanon won't make it into G5. However, a lot of people who work on MLP these days like the 4th Wall breaking and the fanservice so we'll see how extreme it will get.
I just don't want any repetition of the Muffin or alicorn!Twilight drama. That stuff soured the show and the entire generation for me and I only got back into it when the show introduced Starlight as a 7th character.

Spoiler

I watched the leaked episode with her and Sunburst. All her episodes remind me that she is ironically the most relatable despite being very all-powerful unicorn-y. She is always doubting herself, she is sarcastic and tries to fit in in a realistic way. I would be sad to see no Starlight Glimmer (as the character trope) in G5. Maybe they should give Twilight her personality 

[sd_dreamcrystal]

Taffeta, you have the entire main cast to show platonic friendship 
Personally, as a B girl in an L relationship I like to be thrown a miserable vague, maybe canon (?) bread crump once in a while.
Hasbro cares too much about money to introduce a real gay couple anyways. It's always the same; big companies are not interested in showing minorities if they can't cash in on them somehow.

Spoiler

I thought the hug was super sweet and inoffensive. Not all f/f shippers are straight creepy men

As for the shoutouts, I maintain the later seasons did them better. Yes you have fanon mixed in with Muffins being the mail carrier and that 100th episode that I never managed to watch in full because it was too cringey for me.
But I'll take inoffensive fanons about almost mute backgrounders over creepy easter eggs in the form of Slenderpony, or animators making their self-insert characters canon.

I hope any current fanon won't make it into G5. However, a lot of people who work on MLP these days like the 4th Wall breaking and the fanservice so we'll see how extreme it will get.
I just don't want any repetition of the Muffin or alicorn!Twilight drama. That stuff soured the show and the entire generation for me and I only got back into it when the show introduced Starlight as a 7th character.

Spoiler

I watched the leaked episode with her and Sunburst. All her episodes remind me that she is ironically the most relatable despite being very all-powerful unicorn-y. She is always doubting herself, she is sarcastic and tries to fit in in a realistic way. I would be sad to see no Starlight Glimmer (as the character trope) in G5. Maybe they should give Twilight her personality 

Personally I rather see all new cast for main characters, the current cast being used as non-main characters is fine. I'm not a fan of Starlight, but then again I stopped watching the show early on due to a few things and well I just cannot bring myself to watch it again. You can give a character personality but there is such a thing as going overboard..

[Dragonflitter]

Personally, as a B girl in an L relationship I like to be thrown a miserable vague, maybe canon (?) bread crump once in a while.

LOL! I love how you phrased that. Yes, I agree completely! With the added hope that someday as our entertainment evolves, some of it will get less vague and bread-crumb-ery. :3

Starlight and Sunburst's reactions in that ep are some of my fave, as well. (Only topped by the Princess episode, where Starlight is sent to solve a friendship problem cuz she's the only one sarcastic enough to go "just force them to spend the day in each other's roles!" )

I think I like Starlight because she's like if a real person was dropped into a cartoon and had to live there. Like, everyone around you is all starry-eyed, speaking in quirky quips or optimistic platitudes about rainbows, and you're like "Well this is my life now, better make the best of it."

[Zapper]

I think I like Starlight because she's like if a real person was dropped into a cartoon and had to live there. Like, everyone around you is all starry-eyed, speaking in quirky quips or optimistic platitudes about rainbows, and you're like "Well this is my life now, better make the best of it."

That's a perfect description of her! Most of her reactions make me laugh because they are so appropriate. Starlight is that friend who doesn't get the in-joke and just stands there like "okayyy?" I would miss her if they wrote her out.

[Taffeta]

Taffeta, you have the entire main cast to show platonic friendship 

I assume by that you mean FIM, although my irony is that from the little I have watched, it doesn't convince me that the mane 6 even like each other, so I am not totally convinced by their 'friendship' It seems rather contrived by Celestia's need and Equestria's jeopardy.

I don't watch the cartoon so can't really comment eloquently on Lyra and Sweetie Drops' relationship, but the point I was making (and I invoked the Jem example because it presents the situation nicely) is that fans are welcome to interpret relationships however they choose, but that interpretation should not be expected to be reflected in the canon.

Fandoms should be reactionary to the canon, they should not dictate the direction of the story or the characterisation. Fanfic, art, etc - that's where those ideas belong.

If Hasbro want to introduce that kind of relationship into their show, then that's fine. But it has to come from Hasbro or the show creators, not the fandom first and foremost. When that line gets blurred and fan fantasy takes control of canon then there's a problem in the creative hierarchy.

My point was really about the issue of who is in control of the storyline and the way the characters are perceived and presented in wider media and even in the show itself at this point.

[Carrehz]

S8 HnH Day episode spoiler:

Spoiler

So in S8 we get a new Hearts 'n Hooves Day episode focused on Big Mac and Sugar Belle. And in this episode, Lyra and Bonbon give each other gifts and a big hug during a montage of ponies celebrating Hearts 'n Hooves Day!

Spoiler

eeeeeeee that sounds adorable!! I do love LyraBon.. they just look so cute together.

[Al-1701]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Mane 6 "friendship" seems forced.  Faust seemed to be trying to create chemistry between them, but she left and any attempts were drops.  Again, the Aesop aspect gets in the way, as every episode needs to end in a lesson.  That means the Mane 6 can never just understand each other or talk things out like friends try to do.

And the Mane 6 really aren't all that great as characters now that we have seven seasons with them.  They haven't evolved much past what we saw in the first season.  Fluttershy has changed from a pony who fears her own shadow, but it was an abrupt change and now has the opposite problem.  She is assertive to the point of being stubborn and closing herself out to dissenting opinions, replacing one toxic behavior for another.  Rainbow Dash is still a self-absorbed idiot who will happily hurt others for her own amusement.  Applejack is a dry well, Faust's missteps plaguing what you could call her character.  They just seem to not know what they do with Rarity.  Pinkie Pie has become less and less a character and more and more a walking gag machine.  And Twilight Sparkle, Twilight Sparkle has been a princess for longer than a semi-normal unicorn and yet she still seems to not own the fact including not being able to make the moral decision of breaking a contract based on indentured servitude and defers judgement to a freaking table.  Starlight Glimmer is easier to relate to because the others have been broken so thoroughly she feels like a real person in comparison.

And I'm afraid we're going to start with this situation if My Little Pony is not taken out of the hands of this current staff and given to someone not tainted by the brony craze.

[Zapper]

And I'm afraid we're going to start with this situation if My Little Pony is not taken out of the hands of this current staff and given to someone not tainted by the brony craze.

Like yourself?

[Al-1701]

And I'm afraid we're going to start with this situation if My Little Pony is not taken out of the hands of this current staff and given to someone not tainted by the brony craze.

Like yourself?

I wish.  I would make My Little Pony Great Again. 

It would be interesting to sit down and at least be allowed to go through the motions of developing a new generation of My Little Pony.  Creating a treatment and discussing the mission statement.

[Leave a Whisper]

I'd like for this to appeal to kids again.

[Wardah]

I'd like for this to appeal to kids again.

Plenty of kids still like MLP:FIM tho. There's nothing about how MLP is currently that doesn't appeal to kids. Unless you mean only appeal to kids by being as mind numbing as G3.5 was.

[Leave a Whisper]

I'd like for this to appeal to kids again.

Plenty of kids still like MLP:FIM tho. There's nothing about how MLP is currently that doesn't appeal to kids. Unless you mean only appeal to kids by being as mind numbing as G3.5 was.

You do know that appealing to kids does not equal mind numbing right? We don't necessarily need adult-pandering to make it entertaining for us.