The MLP Arena
TCB => Trader & Shipping Support => Topic started by: silverdawn on February 05, 2015, 10:37:45 AM
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Hey all!
I just got an email from a buyer who was VERY upset over my feedback policy this morning, and it is concerning to me as a seller. I'll post the relevant info below.
Auction terms regarding feedback:
Returns & Feedback
Returns are only accepted if the item was not in the condition described. The return must be made withing 14 days of receiving the item. If there are any problems with your purchase, please contact me before leaving negative or neutral feedback. 5-star ratings are my goal and if there are any problems with your purchase, I'd like to have the opportunity to make things better! I will leave positive feedback for you once you receive your items and have left positive feedback for me. If you are unhappy with our transaction, please contact me with any issues or problems and I will do my best to work with you. Best of luck with your bids!
hello,
I have received the pony. shes is good shape and I have no problems with the item. what I have a problem wih is not having feedback. l am a seller also. and I leave feedback right away. once someone pays on time there is no other reason for me to not leave feedback. what l leave is not conditional to what you leave. lt is possible for me to do nothing wrong and have a problems with you or the item. l just ask for feedback on both sides. what you leave is up to u. l think its unfair for you to decide not to leave positive feedback unless l do. There's no reason for you to give me negative feedback. l paid on time. what else is there on my side? what am l missing that makes you think its ok to not leave me positive feedback. the questions and feedback don't apply to reasons that would allow you to leave negative feedback for me. l cant leave feedback for a seller that tells me upfront that I wont get positive feedback when l did noting wrong.
To which I responded:
I'm happy to answer your question on why I don't leave feedback right away. But first off, you have been an amazing buyer who paid very quickly, so thank you! :) To put your mind at ease, as a seller, I cannot leave negative feedback for a buyer, so you never have to worry about that. Ebay has instituted a policy that prevents buyers, like yourself, from receiving negative feedback from their sellers. All I can do is report, but I can only report if I haven't already left positive feedback.
I used to leave positive feedback right away, but I ran into a situation where I had a buyer make some pretty unreasonable demands. Don't get me wrong, I always make an effort to work with my buyers, especially if I've done something wrong, but that definitely wasn't the case with this situation. Because I had already left positive feedback, I was unable to report this person and had no recourse with eBay. I feel that a buyers responsibility goes beyond just paying quickly. Sometimes things go wrong with the post office, packages show up late, or damaged (very rarely) and it's at these points that a buyer and seller must work together to make sure that both parties reach an end that is satisfactory for both. Also, if a buyer is unhappy with their item or I have made a mistake, I would hope the buyer would contact me first before leaving a negative, in which case I would most definitely fix the problem with as little inconvenience to the buyer and no extra cost to them. I don't believe a buyer that is unwilling to work with a seller deserves positive feedback simply for paying quickly when they might afterwards show that they are unreasonable to work with.
I hope this puts your mind at east in that my intentions are not at all sinister, they are simply to help protect myself in the case of an unreasonable buyer. And you are definitely not unreasonable and have nothing to worry about. :) Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns!
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My issues is this, I don't want to scare away potential buyers by thinking that I'm holding feedback over their heads, as this person felt. My only reason is to protect myself as a seller. What I want to know, is would many of you feel the same as this buyer? If so, please let me know! I won't be at all offended! If my buyers think I'm coming off as a rude obnoxious jerk, I want to know! And I don't want them to feel that they can't come to me if there's a problem with their items either! Any help or advice is muchly appreciated!
Silverdawn
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Feedback should be done in my opinion after business is completely taken care of. After the item is received. There's a lot between payment and receiving the item that a buyer can hassle you about or be rude about and you don't know that yet until all is over with.
Honestly this person annoys me and I wouldn't be as polite to them. Very few sellers give me positive feedback as soon as I pay, and I actually dislike when they do because if THEY did something wrong in packaging or something or taking too long to ship then I feel GUILTY to complain about it when they've left me a nice comment! It's happened to me recently with a couple of MIB g3s I bought from a seller. I'm mad because the way they shipped it meant the boxes got damaged but I bit my tongue because they already left me glowing feedback. And that's a pain in the butt because now I'm going to want to buy these same ponies over again, waste of my money!
Forget them. Leave feedback after everything is done with, after the transaction is fully complete. That's how it should be.
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It sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back! She is clearly stressed to rant at you like that. You were very nice in your reply.
By the way I always leave feedback for buyers right away, reason being that you can't leave a neg anyway so you might as well do it while you are dealing with the rest of the transaction. In my mind it saves time and energy, but hey, that's just me.
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I wouldn't worry about it, your terms are pretty standard now days. I think she was just upset cause I bet many sellers aren't leaving her feedback at all, when I was buying alot and trying to build feedback I found many sellers wouldn't leave feedback, I always paid as soon as I won and never was difficult so I just couldn't see why they wouldn't leave feedback and why I should have to go out of my way to ask for it. Once I started selling I found it worked both ways sellers wouldn't leave feedback because most buyers don't and as a seller feedback is important on ebay where its not so much for a buyer. She properly is in the situation I was as a buyer
Anyhow your response was perfect I don't think she will be a problem you properly copped the rant that is aimed at many of she sellers
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I don't sell a lot of stuff but I follow the same sort of idea. I wait until the transaction is totally complete (they've received the item and seem satisfied with it) to leave feedback.
I think maybe you could rework this sentence a little if you're afraid someone else having a bad day will take offense to it.
"I will leave positive feedback for you once you receive your items and have left positive feedback for me"
1) I will leave positive feedback for you once you receive your items and have left feedback for me
2) Once our transaction is fully completed I will leave positive feedback for you.
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Thanks Iris! I think I will definitely do that with my next batch of auctions! I find that most people don't leave feedback now, both buyers and sellers. It's definitely frustrating as I could easily have over 1200 positives by now if everyone left feedback. And there's always that worry in the back of mind that the people who didn't leave feedback are actually upset about something and just scared to contact me. :(
Silverdawn
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I agree; feedback should be based on how the buyer handles the entire transaction, including any possible issues that come up. I think a lot of buyers don't really "get" that, and are under the impression that because they paid right away, they should get feedback right away.
I do think Iris has a good suggestion about rewording your policy, though. Maybe tack on a bit of explanation as to why you've adopted that policy as well; that way, people have a little more of an idea why you do things the way you do.
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I have been selling on eBay for over 10 years (4800+ feedback) and I have never left feedback before the buyer, ever. I also have never had a buyer approach me about it either.
I believe that the transaction is not complete until the buyer has received their item, they are satisfied and leave positive feedback reflecting that. I have been through the many changes to the feedback system over the years. I find it flawed and that it is the one last thing I am still able to control and make my own decision on how I handle it. It sounds to me like your buyer just wanted something to gripe about.
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I'm actually surprised a buyer even read that! Seems most people don't read the policies/instructions/etc.
For me as a seller, I don't leave feedback until after the buyer leaves feedback for me because I don't believe they've done their part simply by paying. They could turn out to be an awful buyer who causes lots of problems or is a scammer. We can't leave negative feedback for a buyer, but we can report them and have ebay deal with them, but if we've already left them positive feedback we're kinda screwed. I don't spell out anything about feedback or ever request feedback. I personally find it annoying when someone even mentions feedback as a buyer or a seller. Feedback is a choice, not an obligation.
I think maybe the main issue is the word "positive". By saying you will leave feedback after they leave positive feedback seems slightly manipulative (sorry). If you took out the word positive it would read more benignly, imho. I'd actually just remove everything about feedback. No feedback is sometimes the best feedback (at least it's not negative!).
Also, as an aside, if a buyer ever tries to manipulate a seller into bending to their will (like say for a partial refund, or giving back their money without them returning the item) by saying basically "if you don't do this I'll leave you negative feedback", that's called feedback extortion and is against ebay policies. You should report the buyer and never give in to them.
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You were so polite and eloquent with your response; I would have wanted to throat punch them.
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Thanks PNW, I'm definitely changing my terms of service after this one and will reword it to sound a more neutral. I really appreciate all the advice everyone has given me on the changes I should make. Sometimes you just stare at your own dumb words and don't see a problem that's glaring to others, so it's nice when you can get an opinion from a second set of eyes. :) As for this buyer, she's actually contacted me back and it sounds like she's been put through the wringer and worse by other transactions lately. She's actually very nice, and I wasn't so much worried about her as much as I was worried that I sounded like an unapproachable jerk to others. :(
Silverdawn
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Thanks PNW, I'm definitely changing my terms of service after this one and will reword it to sound a more neutral. I really appreciate all the advice everyone has given me on the changes I should make. Sometimes you just stare at your own dumb words and don't see a problem that's glaring to others, so it's nice when you can get an opinion from a second set of eyes. :) As for this buyer, she's actually contacted me back and it sounds like she's been put through the wringer and worse by other transactions lately. She's actually very nice, and I wasn't so much worried about her as much as I was worried that I sounded like an unapproachable jerk to others. :(
Silverdawn
You didn't at all imo. You sounded reasonable and polite.
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I do not leave feedback until I know the package has been recieved. That way if there is an issue, I can be completely honest in the Feedback.
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There's no way you would have sound like a jerk ! It's very politely written.
There's nothing wrong with your feedback policy, it's normal to wait for the feedback of the buyer before giving yours.
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I can understand where your buyer is coming from, if you're in the defensive frame of mind it can read like 'you won't get any feedback unless you give me a positive first'. That's not at all what you were aiming for but it can be misconstrued in that direction and a sensitive customer might be put off by it.
If you were to reword the paragraph, instead of this:
5-star ratings are my goal and if there are any problems with your purchase, I'd like to have the opportunity to make things better! I will leave positive feedback for you once you receive your items and have left positive feedback for me. If you are unhappy with our transaction, please contact me with any issues or problems and I will do my best to work with you.
I would aim for something more like:
5-star ratings are my goal and if there are any problems with your purchase, I'd like to have the opportunity to make things better! If you are unhappy with our transaction, please contact me with any issues or problems and I will do my best to work with you. I will leave feedback for you once you receive your items and the transaction is concluded.
Best of luck with your future sales :)
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I think prancingstag's rewording sounds good. I also think your buyer freaked out over nothing and your response was sweet, informative and polite.
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Like others have said, it sounded like she may have had issues with other sellers not leaving any feedback and made you the scapegoat. As a buyer, I don't care who leaves feedback first.
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Perhaps your buyer was having a bad day or had a bad experience with someone else or generally maybe she'd done a lot of transactions, not got any feedback from a lot and took it out on you . You didn't do anything wrong and I think you handled it really well in your reply :hug: :bigups:
In all honesty I used to leave feedback right away as soon as a buyer paid but that was when I was new to selling! you soon learn that there are some real dodgy buyers out there who can mess you about and try and scam you , leave bad feedback for no reason or whatever...and if you've already left them good feedback then another seller can easily fall victim to them and you cant much about it :awake:
These days , like you and PL and many others here , I only leave feedback *after* the buyer has left feedback for me or they have at least sent me a message through ebay saying that they have received the item and are happy with it (so I have it on record if there is trouble later).
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I think your reply was very well-stated. And as others have said before, it is best if you rework your wording on your feedback policy. Like you, I don't leave feedback for buyers unless they leave it for me because I don't have any recourse with eBay.
But what really bothers me about your buyer is that, as a seller themselves, they apparently still don't know eBay's rules on feedback. They're not aware that a seller cannot leave anything but positive feedback for a transaction. That rule has been in play for years! They said they are a seller, too, but maybe they need to get to know the rules a little better before they continue to sell and before they make such accusations! Especially when a fellow seller has done nothing wrong!
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Some sellers leave feedback as soon as I pay; others do not. I honestly did feel like they were holding me hostage or something, so I really appreciate your explanation. Still, I have never contacted a seller to complain about his/her policy on the matter. If I was that upset over it, I wouldn't buy in the first place. I agree that prancingstag's rewording of this policy sounds very positive, and would (hopefully) prevent future issues.
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I love Prancingstag's rewording. :) I hope you don't mind if I use it!
Silverdawn
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I love Prancingstag's rewording. :) I hope you don't mind if I use it!
Silverdawn
Go right ahead, I'm only too happy to help! :biggrin:
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Just chiming in that I also wait until the transaction is complete usually, unless it is someone I have dealt with a ton of times.. it is also easier for me to keep track of that way ;)
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I left immediate positive feedback once for a buyer from Brazil who paid within a few minutes of winning. He rewarded me with contacting eBay 2 days later and reported that he never received his item!! Even with the fastest shipping available a package wouldn't arrive with (essentially) only one day of shipping time all the way from Canada! He won that case, so I never leave feedback until the transaction is done now, and that means they've either contacted me to say they received the package or they leave feedback. I don't hold anyone to leaving feedback, I just want to know if the item has arrived without any problems. If 2 months go by and no contact, no feedback, I leave feedback for them and continue on with life :)
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Is there a reason to tell the buyers when you will leave their feedback? It seems at least this buyer thought you were hinting at feedback extortion. People read things in different ways, so maybe mentioning the feedback at all would cause the same issue no matter how you word it. Maybe better to just say the part about how you are happy to work out any problems that arise. Just my opinion! :)
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i don't leave feedback till everything is settled either.
sometimes i leave feedback to remind them (sometime sellers) to leave me feedback.
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I changed it out using Prancingstag's suggestion :)
Returns & Feedback
Returns are only accepted if the item was not in the condition described. The return must be made withing 14 days of receiving the item. If there are any problems with your purchase, please contact me before leaving negative or neutral feedback. 5-star ratings are my goal and if there are any problems with your purchase, I'd like to have the opportunity to make things better! If you are unhappy with our transaction, please contact me with any issues or problems and I will do my best to work with you. I will leave feedback for you once you receive your items and our transaction is concluded. I'm also a member of the mlparena under silverdawn, and if you'd like me to post feedback there as well, just let me know and I would be most happy to do so! Best of luck with your bids!
I didn't want to take out feedback completely as some buyers expect it right away after they pay. I wanted to make sure to let them know I will leave feedback, just not right off the top. And I certainly don't want it to look like I'm extorting feedback either. With so many people not leaving feedback at all, I want my buyers to know I haven't forgotten about it completely. :) Hopefully this will do the trick. Truthfully, I'm really glad that lady came forward, because other people felt the same way she did and I was completely unaware, so at least now I have a chance to fix it! Once again, thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. I love this place! :)
Silverdawn
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I don't use eBay anymore and I never complained about it, but I would get annoyed when the seller wouldn't leave me feedback. After a while, I just stopped giving it all together. I left sooo many positive feedbacks and got none in return. Sometimes I would even poke a little with a short note to them:
"Thank you so much for selling me your wonderful ______. I'm very happy with it and I left you positive feedback. Please leave feedback for me."
Nothing. :mad:
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As someone who has only bought, never sold, on eBay, I would find your political re feedback completely normal and understandable. Basically as soon as my package arrives and is all fine I leave feedback. Then the seller would leave feedback after. This is how it always is!! So don't worry
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I don't use eBay anymore and I never complained about it, but I would get annoyed when the seller wouldn't leave me feedback. After a while, I just stopped giving it all together. I left sooo many positive feedbacks and got none in return. Sometimes I would even poke a little with a short note to them:
"Thank you so much for selling me your wonderful ______. I'm very happy with it and I left you positive feedback. Please leave feedback for me."
Nothing. :mad:
This is what frustrates me is SELLERS who don't leave feedback even if buyers leave feedback. These are the sellers I refuse to buy from again. It's very understandable for sellers not to leave feedback first but to not leave feedback at all? I don't understand it.
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I think a lot of sellers see it as pointless now that there is no negative feedback option for buyers. It's never going to be a true representation because Awesome Buyer is going to have 100% positive buying feedback and Terrible Buyer is also going to have 100% positive buying feedback. You can't use it to evaluate buyers any more, so what's the point?
I always leave feedback for buyers, but I admit it's a low priority. Usually I wait a couple weeks and then do all my feedback all in one "batch" for the sake of convenience.
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I think a lot of sellers see it as pointless now that there is no negative feedback option for buyers. It's never going to be a true representation because Awesome Buyer is going to have 100% positive buying feedback and Terrible Buyer is also going to have 100% positive buying feedback. You can't use it to evaluate buyers any more, so what's the point?
I always leave feedback for buyers, but I admit it's a low priority. Usually I wait a couple weeks and then do all my feedback all in one "batch" for the sake of convenience.
I would like a seller to leave me feedback so I can look back and see if I bought anything from that seller in the past. It is more of a way to keep tabs. If they don't leave feedback, I'm less likely to want to do business because they apparently don't care so they apparently aren't worth the bother.
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I would like a seller to leave me feedback so I can look back and see if I bought anything from that seller in the past. It is more of a way to keep tabs. If they don't leave feedback, I'm less likely to want to do business because they apparently don't care so they apparently aren't worth the bother.
This. Some sellers will also refuse to do business with buyers that have no or little feedback, so even if you are an ideal buyer you could be denied items simply because other sellers couldn't be bothered to leave feedback.
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My question would be this; they bought from you knowing your feedback policy was something they did not like so (assuming they read the full auction before bidding as they should have done) why did they buy from you in the first place?
Crazy person.
You did nothing wrong but a more neutral re-wording would prevent further crazies from contacting you :)
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After that kind of message, I would not leave her feedback at all.
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I have had bad experiences with leaving positive feedback first as a seller. I never leave a positive until I know either the item has arrived and they are happy, or they leave positive feedback first. I think you worded your policy very clearly and politely.