The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Purpleglasses on December 26, 2021, 02:10:06 PM
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Has anyone tried soaking rust stained pony hair in white vinegar to remove the stains? I ask because my BF soaked a pair of rusty bolt cutters in plain white vinegar and the rust simply vanished in a few days! I know that oxi clean and tooth paste are both used on rust stains, but if vinegar won’t harm nylon pony hair, it certainly would be a useful and cheap way to pretreat a large number of rusty tails. I’ve seen people mention using vinegar to help set the color in dyed pony or doll hair, so I assume it doesn’t harm the fiber or dry it out to much, though if I’m wrong on that front I’d love to hear about your experiences! Thanks folks!
Another point - I’ve noticed a few eBay listings lately mention of ponies have had their washers replaced with zip ties. I know most of us collectors prefer zip ties as it means never having to deal with rust again, but I wonder if some collectors will ever become more stringent about ponies having their original washers? If so…an intact washer could probably be fixed up with a vinegar soak and popped back in if you planned to sell the pony.
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Posting an update since I see a lot of views on here! I know pony hair is nylon and I found a chart online about how nylon reacts to exposure to various chemicals, including vinegar and, hilariously enough, chocolate syrup. Since it’s an excellent match for both on that chart, I’m about to detail a very rusty Cotton Candy, give her tail a soak in vinegar, and see what happens! I will keep you guys posted on the results. Especially with all the talk recently about how restoring very common ponies may not be financially worth the time it takes, and frankly because I’m sure many collectors have a poor condition bin they’re looking for the time to tend to, I’m getting really curious about ways to batch process the restoration of a lot of ponies! I’ll keep you guys posted about my results.
Here is a link to the chart!
https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/ (https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/)
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I use vinegar and it works great! Also great for killing mold inside!
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I second that vinegar is great for dissolving rust, plus it is good for treating mould. I also recommend Milton/baby steriliser tablets in extreme cases i.e. actual live fungus! >_< However acids like vinegar may make certain hair colours unstable like yellow chartreuse and red. I'd be interested to hear if you get any dye changes with strong colours.
On tail washers. The washer may rust but the clamp rarely ever does. I have never seen the clamp rust and I think it's made of an aluminium alloy. If the washer is rusty, the best treatment is to soak in vinegar or sand it lightly, wash and dry it then spray with clear acrylic varnish before replacing. Or if it's too far gone, just throw it away. I would never put a zip tie inside a pony to replace the washer since I don't want to introduce any other materials that may react. Customisers have been using acrylic paints and varnished for years and we haven't identified any problems so i would view these as being fairly safe. Also I don't swing my ponies around by the tail :P so I'm happy for the tail to be replaced clamp-only. If the clamp has been replaced that's an absolute no from me. It changes the character of the tail, and I have never seen a case where this is necessary. I would view it as a mistake by someone being hasty.
Post Merge: December 30, 2021, 04:07:41 AM
p.s. on batch treatment I find that's never really an option if you aim to do the bare minimum possible to clean and stabilise the pony's condition. You have to make individual choices based on what you do and the strength of the cleaners, lubricants and abrasives you'd do it with. These decisions are not always easy and can time time and consideration, hence one reason why a lot of people have spares piled up. They just take time to work out what, if anything, to do.
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That chart is very interesting... Nice to know I can rosin up my pony hairs if I want to, lol. :lol: I'm curious why acetic acid had a severe effect but vinegar is excellent, I thought acetic acid was the active part of vinegar. Maybe I'm mixing it up with another acid. Also I wish they had tested hydrogen peroxide at 3% as that is the usual strength consumers buy (for first aid purposes), and sulfamic acid and gluconic acids...
Has anyone ever tried cleaning a washer with ketchup or coke? Ha ha.
Post Merge: December 30, 2021, 06:55:40 AM
I would never put a zip tie inside a pony to replace the washer since I don't want to introduce any other materials that may react.
Aren't zip ties also made of nylon? Are there different kinds of nylon that can react poorly together?
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That chart is very interesting... Nice to know I can rosin up my pony hairs if I want to, lol. :lol: I'm curious why acetic acid had a severe effect but vinegar is excellent, I thought acetic acid was the active part of vinegar. Maybe I'm mixing it up with another acid. Also I wish they had tested hydrogen peroxide at 3% as that is the usual strength consumers buy (for first aid purposes), and sulfamic acid and gluconic acids...
Has anyone ever tried cleaning a washer with ketchup or coke? Ha ha.
Post Merge: December 30, 2021, 06:55:40 AM
I would never put a zip tie inside a pony to replace the washer since I don't want to introduce any other materials that may react.
Aren't zip ties also made of nylon? Are there different kinds of nylon that can react poorly together?
Good question, you may be right! If they are made of nylon then maybe it's OK. I don't know. I guess if I needed to use them I would read up on it more. Also I have used coke on tail washers and it works overnight but not as well as vinegar.
According to Wikipedia "Vinegar is no less than 4% acetic acid by volume". The lowest concentration on the chart for acetic acid is 20% so maybe we could assume vinegar is 5 - 10% for comparison?
I am actually surprised that acetone is an A+, I wouldn't assume that it's A+ on the body.
I used to get a lot out of researching all this stuff, but right now I'm on holiday and gotta do pretty much the same thing for pansy seeds when I go back to work :lol: Will be stalking to see what you all find out!
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I second that vinegar is great for dissolving rust, plus it is good for treating mould. I also recommend Milton/baby steriliser tablets in extreme cases i.e. actual live fungus! >_< However acids like vinegar may make certain hair colours unstable like yellow chartreuse and red. I'd be interested to hear if you get any dye changes with strong colours.
On tail washers. The washer may rust but the clamp rarely ever does. I have never seen the clamp rust and I think it's made of an aluminium alloy. If the washer is rusty, the best treatment is to soak in vinegar or sand it lightly, wash and dry it then spray with clear acrylic varnish before replacing. Or if it's too far gone, just throw it away. I would never put a zip tie inside a pony to replace the washer since I don't want to introduce any other materials that may react. Customisers have been using acrylic paints and varnished for years and we haven't identified any problems so i would view these as being fairly safe. Also I don't swing my ponies around by the tail :P so I'm happy for the tail to be replaced clamp-only. If the clamp has been replaced that's an absolute no from me. It changes the character of the tail, and I have never seen a case where this is necessary. I would view it as a mistake by someone being hasty.
Post Merge: December 30, 2021, 04:07:41 AM
p.s. on batch treatment I find that's never really an option if you aim to do the bare minimum possible to clean and stabilise the pony's condition. You have to make individual choices based on what you do and the strength of the cleaners, lubricants and abrasives you'd do it with. These decisions are not always easy and can time time and consideration, hence one reason why a lot of people have spares piled up. They just take time to work out what, if anything, to do.
Well, if we're saying acrylic paints/varnishes are safe, by that rubric aren't zip ties safe too, since customizers have also been using those for years? Or is it a concern for more long-term reactions? Which, to be fair, I do know we've witnessed some long-term staining from various acrylic paints! Unless you mean chemical reactions in terms of aging the plastic, in which case I would have no idea. :lmao:
I haven't considered that zipties might not react well to pony plastic, and I've been using them for years! :yikes: I always imagined the biggest risk for zipties would be turning brittle and cracking, but that would have to be decades down the line. For 99% of the ponies I have to ziptie, the biggest concern is the rusted out tail, which is more of an immediate concern (rust stains etc) than plastic breakdown, at least in my experience.
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I second that vinegar is great for dissolving rust, plus it is good for treating mould. I also recommend Milton/baby steriliser tablets in extreme cases i.e. actual live fungus! >_< However acids like vinegar may make certain hair colours unstable like yellow chartreuse and red. I'd be interested to hear if you get any dye changes with strong colours.
On tail washers. The washer may rust but the clamp rarely ever does. I have never seen the clamp rust and I think it's made of an aluminium alloy. If the washer is rusty, the best treatment is to soak in vinegar or sand it lightly, wash and dry it then spray with clear acrylic varnish before replacing. Or if it's too far gone, just throw it away. I would never put a zip tie inside a pony to replace the washer since I don't want to introduce any other materials that may react. Customisers have been using acrylic paints and varnished for years and we haven't identified any problems so i would view these as being fairly safe. Also I don't swing my ponies around by the tail :P so I'm happy for the tail to be replaced clamp-only. If the clamp has been replaced that's an absolute no from me. It changes the character of the tail, and I have never seen a case where this is necessary. I would view it as a mistake by someone being hasty.
Post Merge: December 30, 2021, 04:07:41 AM
p.s. on batch treatment I find that's never really an option if you aim to do the bare minimum possible to clean and stabilise the pony's condition. You have to make individual choices based on what you do and the strength of the cleaners, lubricants and abrasives you'd do it with. These decisions are not always easy and can time time and consideration, hence one reason why a lot of people have spares piled up. They just take time to work out what, if anything, to do.
Well, if we're saying acrylic paints/varnishes are safe, by that rubric aren't zip ties safe too, since customizers have also been using those for years? Or is it a concern for more long-term reactions? Which, to be fair, I do know we've witnessed some long-term staining from various acrylic paints! Unless you mean chemical reactions in terms of aging the plastic, in which case I would have no idea. :lmao:
I haven't considered that zipties might not react well to pony plastic, and I've been using them for years! :yikes: I always imagined the biggest risk for zipties would be turning brittle and cracking, but that would have to be decades down the line. For 99% of the ponies I have to ziptie, the biggest concern is the rusted out tail, which is more of an immediate concern (rust stains etc) than plastic breakdown, at least in my experience.
Why do you have to zip tie them? Do you not find that if you remove the washer and de-rust the tail and clamp it can just be re-inserted by itself?
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Because the metal can rust again, that's why. It doesn't need to be submerged in water only to turn rusty. If you live in a hot and humid enough climate (like where I live) rust is an eventuality. That's why outdoor furnishings are made of plastic, wicker or cloth.
Besides, I find that when I remove the clamp, the hair is all crinkled where it was, and if I'm fixing a tail to put back in I want to fix it properly and get those kinks out. Putting the clamp back would negate that.
There is nothing wrong with zip ties :rolleyes:
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Because the metal can rust again, that's why. It doesn't need to be submerged in water only to turn rusty. If you live in a hot and humid enough climate (like where I live) rust is an eventuality. That's why outdoor furnishings are made of plastic, wicker or cloth.
Besides, I find that when I remove the clamp, the hair is all crinkled where it was, and if I'm fixing a tail to put back in I want to fix it properly and get those kinks out. Putting the clamp back would negate that.
There is nothing wrong with zip ties :rolleyes:
So do you find the clamp itself actually rusts? I've only seen the washer being rusted.
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Well I just left two rust-infested tails in clear vinegar overnight and it didn't do much to help them. Hmm. :huh:
I also find the clamp is almost never an issue, just the washer. Think I've only had one case where the clamp was actually degraded. So if I have a rusty tail I'm usually just exchanging the rusty washer for a clear zip tie....or...an intact washer from another pony. Usually a zip tie though.
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So do you find the clamp itself actually rusts? I've only seen the washer being rusted.
Yes. In ponies that get rust stains you will usually find a rusty clamp and washer. My Argie Whizzer is such a pony. Even after cleaning her you can still see the stains on the outside of her body - that's how bad the rust was inside. I have also seen rusty G3 clamps too.
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On tail washers. The washer may rust but the clamp rarely ever does. I have never seen the clamp rust and I think it's made of an aluminium alloy. If the washer is rusty, the best treatment is to soak in vinegar or sand it lightly, wash and dry it then spray with clear acrylic varnish before replacing. Or if it's too far gone, just throw it away. I would never put a zip tie inside a pony to replace the washer since I don't want to introduce any other materials that may react. Customisers have been using acrylic paints and varnished for years and we haven't identified any problems so i would view these as being fairly safe. Also I don't swing my ponies around by the tail :P so I'm happy for the tail to be replaced clamp-only. If the clamp has been replaced that's an absolute no from me. It changes the character of the tail, and I have never seen a case where this is necessary.
You just blew my mind with the part about restoring and then painting the washers with clear acrylic! I’m totally gonna start doing that. I have only seen the zip tie method so far, but I’m new :biggrin: I have been tossing the washers from super rusty ponies so far and saving the good-to-okay condition washers in a cup, and putting the tails back with clamp only. Going to start saving the clamps when I rehair a tail now too.
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So do you find the clamp itself actually rusts? I've only seen the washer being rusted.
Yes. In ponies that get rust stains you will usually find a rusty clamp and washer. My Argie Whizzer is such a pony. Even after cleaning her you can still see the stains on the outside of her body - that's how bad the rust was inside. I have also seen rusty G3 clamps too.
I've only seen the inside of UK/Euro/USA G1 ponies tbf
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I've seen plenty of rusty clamps, especially on G3 ponies.
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I've seen plenty of rusty clamps, especially on G3 ponies.
Actually I think I've seen rusty clamps on G3 ponies too, but I have only looked at one or two since they are normally in good condition. I still stand by the idea that UK/Euro and USA release G1s have a clamp that doesn't usually rust, it just discolours slightly and can be cleaned up. Maybe we can add some pics to this thread sometime.
Post Merge: December 31, 2021, 10:43:14 PM
Well I just left two rust-infested tails in clear vinegar overnight and it didn't do much to help them. Hmm. :huh:
I also find the clamp is almost never an issue, just the washer. Think I've only had one case where the clamp was actually degraded. So if I have a rusty tail I'm usually just exchanging the rusty washer for a clear zip tie....or...an intact washer from another pony. Usually a zip tie though.
Did you find it loosened the rust though? I still use toothpaste afterwards. That's cool, do you try to match the washer? I think there were a few different sizes/types.
Post Merge: December 31, 2021, 10:51:08 PM
You just blew my mind with the part about restoring and then painting the washers with clear acrylic! I’m totally gonna start doing that. I have only seen the zip tie method so far, but I’m new :biggrin: I have been tossing the washers from super rusty ponies so far and saving the good-to-okay condition washers in a cup, and putting the tails back with clamp only. Going to start saving the clamps when I rehair a tail now too.
I also have several cups full of good-to-okay condition washers :lol: I find the clamps can be pried apart with various metal implements including pliers but they are almost impossible to re-use neatly. I guess this is why I try never to undo them in the first place. Maybe you will have better luck? Now that Sunpony told me that cable ties are nylon I agree they are probably OK. I have used them for customs before, one acting as the clamp and one acting as the washer.
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I second that vinegar is great for dissolving rust, plus it is good for treating mould. I also recommend Milton/baby steriliser tablets in extreme cases i.e. actual live fungus! >_< However acids like vinegar may make certain hair colours unstable like yellow chartreuse and red. I'd be interested to hear if you get any dye changes with strong colours.
On tail washers. The washer may rust but the clamp rarely ever does. I have never seen the clamp rust and I think it's made of an aluminium alloy. If the washer is rusty, the best treatment is to soak in vinegar or sand it lightly, wash and dry it then spray with clear acrylic varnish before replacing. Or if it's too far gone, just throw it away. I would never put a zip tie inside a pony to replace the washer since I don't want to introduce any other materials that may react. Customisers have been using acrylic paints and varnished for years and we haven't identified any problems so i would view these as being fairly safe. Also I don't swing my ponies around by the tail :P so I'm happy for the tail to be replaced clamp-only. If the clamp has been replaced that's an absolute no from me. It changes the character of the tail, and I have never seen a case where this is necessary. I would view it as a mistake by someone being hasty.
Post Merge: December 30, 2021, 04:07:41 AM
p.s. on batch treatment I find that's never really an option if you aim to do the bare minimum possible to clean and stabilise the pony's condition. You have to make individual choices based on what you do and the strength of the cleaners, lubricants and abrasives you'd do it with. These decisions are not always easy and can time time and consideration, hence one reason why a lot of people have spares piled up. They just take time to work out what, if anything, to do.
Well, if we're saying acrylic paints/varnishes are safe, by that rubric aren't zip ties safe too, since customizers have also been using those for years? Or is it a concern for more long-term reactions? Which, to be fair, I do know we've witnessed some long-term staining from various acrylic paints! Unless you mean chemical reactions in terms of aging the plastic, in which case I would have no idea. :lmao:
I haven't considered that zipties might not react well to pony plastic, and I've been using them for years! :yikes: I always imagined the biggest risk for zipties would be turning brittle and cracking, but that would have to be decades down the line. For 99% of the ponies I have to ziptie, the biggest concern is the rusted out tail, which is more of an immediate concern (rust stains etc) than plastic breakdown, at least in my experience.
Why do you have to zip tie them? Do you not find that if you remove the washer and de-rust the tail and clamp it can just be re-inserted by itself?
BlackCurtains got my answer for me, which was preventing more rust! Plus, usually by the time I declamp them, the metal is bent all out of shape, and covered in rust. I don't have any particular emotional attachment to metal clamps, especially ones covered in rust (and sometimes falling apart due to how heavily rusted-through they are!), so I usually just chuck em! I've kept a few clean washers, I'd like to make some jewelry out of them someday!
I can also personally attest to finding rusted washers and clamps in ponies I open, and sometimes I'll even find rust has stained the tail under the clamp itself, in a few particularly terrible situations. (Thankfully, not often!) Sadly, sometimes just removing a washer isn't enough, if the pony is rusty enough. Luckily not all ponies turn out that bad, and I've done some "half" fixes, where I take off the rusty washer, wash the tail, then add a ziptie to the clamp to replace the washer!
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I second that vinegar is great for dissolving rust, plus it is good for treating mould. I also recommend Milton/baby steriliser tablets in extreme cases i.e. actual live fungus! >_< However acids like vinegar may make certain hair colours unstable like yellow chartreuse and red. I'd be interested to hear if you get any dye changes with strong colours.
How do you use the steriliser tablets on a rusty tail? Do you make a paste of the tablet or soak the tail in a solution? I've got some tablets and a pony in need of a clean. I think there may be more than rust in her tail :X
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I second that vinegar is great for dissolving rust, plus it is good for treating mould. I also recommend Milton/baby steriliser tablets in extreme cases i.e. actual live fungus! >_< However acids like vinegar may make certain hair colours unstable like yellow chartreuse and red. I'd be interested to hear if you get any dye changes with strong colours.
How do you use the steriliser tablets on a rusty tail? Do you make a paste of the tablet or soak the tail in a solution? I've got some tablets and a pony in need of a clean. I think there may be more than rust in her tail :X
I use something caled Milton tablets in the UK. They are surprisingly hardcore on fungus yet gentle on leather and fabrics. You may get a tiny slight bleaching effect if you leave it on fabric too long before rinsing. So back to ponies, I let the tablets fizz in a bowl of water. I think I worked out it's two tablets for one washing up bowl full of water, but check the label. I soak for 15 minutes, then wash in soap and warm water.
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I use something caled Milton tablets in the UK. They are surprisingly hardcore on fungus yet gentle on leather and fabrics. You may get a tiny slight bleaching effect if you leave it on fabric too long before rinsing. So back to ponies, I let the tablets fizz in a bowl of water. I think I worked out it's two tablets for one washing up bowl full of water, but check the label. I soak for 15 minutes, then wash in soap and warm water.
Thank you for telling me how you use them :thumb:. I know they are used to sterilise baby things, but I was worried they would bleach ponies. And it's always good to hear about products that are hardcore on mould.
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I use something caled Milton tablets in the UK. They are surprisingly hardcore on fungus yet gentle on leather and fabrics. You may get a tiny slight bleaching effect if you leave it on fabric too long before rinsing. So back to ponies, I let the tablets fizz in a bowl of water. I think I worked out it's two tablets for one washing up bowl full of water, but check the label. I soak for 15 minutes, then wash in soap and warm water.
Thank you for telling me how you use them :thumb:. I know they are used to sterilise baby things, but I was worried they would bleach ponies. And it's always good to hear about products that are hardcore on mould.
I know, right! It completely saved us when we moved out of a musty old cottage. I wish I'd discovered it before I threw out my violin cases >_< We ended up filling a massive trug outside near the tap in the garden. I know it's bad for the envoronment though, but otherwise we would have had to throw out most of our stuff.
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I know, right! It completely saved us when we moved out of a musty old cottage. I wish I'd discovered it before I threw out my violin cases >_< We ended up filling a massive trug outside near the tap in the garden. I know it's bad for the envoronment though, but otherwise we would have had to throw out most of our stuff.
The yuk is real! I've lived in more modern houses that were so well insulated they kept the humidity in too >_<