The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Off Topic => Toy Box & Games Cupboard => Topic started by: Al-1701 on January 14, 2018, 09:02:20 AM
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I don't know who here plays Pokemon, but this is a rant about the latest generation of Pokemon games and will contain spoilers. So, be warned.
I recently finished Pokemon Ultra Sun (I got Sun and Moon for Christmas in 2016, but decided to play the Ultra Sun version when I heard it was coming out). And can I start out with that. Game Freak, you're on a system that allows for DLC. Why did you need to make these completely new games? There is very little altered in the Ultra versions, so you could have easily put the additions in a DLC pack for ten bucks instead of making a new set of games for 40.
Unfortunately, this is not where my complaints stop. The 7th generation is the point where Pokemon stopped being fun. Once I was done with the game, including the aftergame campaigns, I was underwhelmed and not amused. I hope all the hipsters are happy, because Game Freak finally changed up the formula like you had been whining and sniveling for and the new formula stunk. This is the first story line in a Pokemon I do not look forward to playing through ever again.
Where to begin with this trainwreck. Well, let's begin with the characters. I hate Hau. I don't even love to hate him like the rivals from the first and second generations. I just plain hate him. I hate that dopey grin he always has on his face, I hate how you seem to run into him every two seconds and he wastes your time with five minutes of dialogue which is basically explaining everything your about to be forced to explore anyway (I'll get to that in a minute). He might as well be floating behind you the entire game going "look, look, listen, listen". Actually, no, that's what's next.
Why does the PokeDex talk? Why does it not just talk, but talk constantly? Why does it have to extend conversations with its banal input that adds nothing but more lines of dialogue to get through? Why does it have to say something every time you turn on the game? Who at Game Freak thought this was a good idea, and why did no one say "That's dumb?" After playing the game, I want to pack Hau and the PokeDex in a rocket and launch them into the sun.
Even Lily got on my nerves. At least she has a story arc in which she actually grows as a character. However, she's not the character. So, her story arc intrudes into a game where it doesn't really matter and feels like a distraction. If Game Freak wanted to do a story where a character has an arc, then they should drop the nameless, voiceless trainer thing and have you play as that character. There are plenty of RPG's still out there where you play as a set character with a story to them, and I think playing as Lily probably would have elevated the storytelling compared to viewing by proxy.
Then we get into how they changed up formula. Gone are gyms and in are...gyms under a different name. The Island Challenge did not impress me. The challenges were not too different from the traps in Pokemon gyms, and the Trial Captains and Kahunas were basically the same thing as gym leaders. The only addition of note were the Totem Pokemon which were just bigger versions of common Pokemon that upped their stats to be a semi-legendary. They were hard to take down, but were more frustrating than a challenge to be enjoyed since you typically put the Pokemon best able to take them down quickly at the beginning of your team to keep them from getting in a position to sweep your team. In other words, they're like the bosses from Paper Mario Sticker Star (you know, the one EVERYONE hates).
I also didn't like how you were led by the nose. I start off where you were being led from place to place on the first island. I figured it was okay because they were easing you into the game. However, it didn't stop. You were led from point A to point B through the entire game. Even what were usually side quests to partake in at any moment were turned into required story points. It felt less like a journey of exploration and discovery and more like a guided tour with the most annoying tour guide ever. The Alola region didn't even feel like that interesting of a place with little capturing my curiosity like previous games did. Though, this game seemed to force you to do so much, little was left as voluntary (and I was too tired of the force sightseeing to really care what else there was).
Even actual Pokemon battling was pathetic. So many trainers had just one Pokemon, and you almost never came across one with more than three. Even in Victory Road (or whatever they called it), even after becoming champion. Remember when you ran up against trainers with four or five Pokemon as early as just after the first gym? And I found most of the Alola forms to be underwhelming and inferior to the originals. Especially Diglett/Dugtrio. And few of the new additions are Pokemon I would want to use compared earlier kinds.
Then we get to the Limit Breaks I mean Z-moves. I never used a Z-move in my playthrough. I was willing to accept Mega Evolutions, but Z-moves are just a step too far. Stop making these stupid gimmicks. The games were fine without them. They were BETTER without them.
The overall story didn't grab me. Team Skull were fun enough (though their rosters were as bare as any other trainer in this game). However, they were more a gang of punks (actually they were a gang of the punk trainer class only with gaudy necklaces) with no real impact on the story. They were Team Rocket without the malicious disregard for life. Actually, raiding their base was one of the high points of the game. Aether or whatever they called themselves (I really couldn't care), was almost completely nonexistent for the "dramatic twist" so they had little impact even though their actions were supposed to be driving the story. The addition of the Ultra Recon squad in the Ultra version was yet another unwelcome distraction.
Really, that's what all of this can be summed up as, it was all distractions. The previous two generations (as well as Platinum) had given us a sense of grandeur to the events around us. We were dealing with deep and rich history regarding the local legendary Pokemon and what the evil team was up to. Here, we suddenly have aliens with this light stealing monster who would have come out of nowhere if it was not drilled into our heads every five minutes whenever the Ultra Recon Squad showed up. And that was an improvement over the original story where Lily's mother merges with one of the ultra beasts only so she can throw Pokemon at you.
In the end, I found the experience to be a slog I don't feel like repeating. There are some rays of light. PokeRide is an improvement over HM's or other moves with field effects. Would have liked an 8th one (I'm not including Mantine Surf since it was more a mini-game) for like Dive or Dig so there were as many as a normal compliment of HM's (actually, include Dive and Dig and get rid of Mudsdale and the rocky terrain). Mantine Surf is a blast to play and the best way to rack up BP Game Freak has thought of yet (and you have access to it early). However, these were superficial to the problems with the game in general.
As the title suggests, I'm starting a new game on the Blue Version. It'll be one of many times I've played through the original game just for the fun of it. It's rather basic nowadays, but sometimes basic works. Really, after slapping way too many bells and whistles on their latest games, Game Freak could stand to get back to basics (by basics I would say where they were in G5) in their next game.
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Omg finally someone said it!
As you can tell by my name I love pokemon, but Sun and Moon was a HUGE let down, the game pretty much holds your hand the entire way.
With X and Y I LOVED that game, I broke the clock and hit 999.99 hours on it. With SM I barely broke 30...
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I like Hau. He's the type of kid I woulda hung with. I think he's very sweet.
Screw DLC! Its one of the poisons of modern gaming. No thanks Al. Plus Pokemon has been doing this make a superior version formula FOREVER.
Eh Pokemon is Pokemon. Your pretty much doing the same thing here as any other game. Just tweaked a little.
The pokedex is embarrassing.
Lilly is annoying.
The. main character has the best and mildly creepy sociopathic expression EVER!!!
The UB Pokes are uggggly. But they make for some great name jokes. My daughter WT her Buzzwole Arnold and got a buzzwole named Ah-nold in return. XD
My daughter and boyfriend love it.
Cheer up. Gen 2 Crystal is coming out this month.
Pokemon has always been easy and handholdy. Every gen has a teacher, and trainer tip signs and npcs that give you no duh advice.
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Moving to The Toy Box & Games Cupboard forum.
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It's interesting how we both dislike Generation VII, but we have completely different reasons.
For me I wasn't bothered by the island challenges replacing the gyms. I wasn't bothered by "hand-holding" - I'm not even sure I even caught that was even happening.
I was bothered by things like the SOS feature in wild Pokemon battles. You can get caught in an infinite loop where the Pokemon keeps calling for more and it succeeds, which makes it impossible to catch the Pokemon, because they can't be caught when another is on the field. It also makes training weaker Pokemon very hard, because now they're double-teamed.
For that, and other reasons, grinding was just really tedious and frustrating in the games. I didn't want to turn on EXP Share, but I had to because trying to train my Pokemon individually frustrated me too much.
Another reason I didn't really enjoy training or battling in this game is that I felt the difficulty was all over the place. I felt like my Pokemon had stats that were weaker than normal, they were taken out much easier, and their attacks were also much weaker than I remember in previous games. I was made to feel like I was supposed to be training them competitively, worrying about IVs, EVs, etc. and I want none of that. I don't care to spend that much time on a video game. For clarification, I have no problem with those mechanisms existing and competitive players being able to use them, I just don't think that it should ever bleed into the main game.
So it was much harder to judge when I could take out a Pokemon, and it was also very hard to judge when my Pokemon were gong to be taken out. This is where the inconsistency in difficulty comes into play. Some trainers were a cake walk like in previous games, but then you'd run into trainers who smartly used their Pokemon, and their Pokemon seemed to have been trained with better stats. Perhaps some people will like that, but again, I don't. Especially since it is so darn inconsistent. Trainers you'd expect to be smarter like the rival do the dumbest things, meanwhile some random trainer will surprise you.
Next, the region felt so limiting. I've never felt so limited in a Pokemon game. You can only fish in certain spots, and Surf is very limited compared to previous games... Like you can only surf in very small spots, a strange decision for a tropical region. This may be part of the "hand-holding" that people are complaining about. The paths are just too linear, too small.
The one thing that just really killed it in the end for me, though, was the fact that there is no National Pokedex. So that means that Pokemon that aren't in the Alola Pokedex will register nowhere. There is no in-game way whatsoever to track catching Pokemon outside of the Alola Pokedex. This is unforgivable. Combine this with the QR feature that shows you Pokemon outside of the Alola Pokedex. What in the world is the point of that? The fact that they've been shown to you is registered nowhere. It's completely pointless.
It was at that point that I completely lost interest in Sun, and most certainly didn't care to pick up US/UM.
Generally, I think changing some things up is the right direction to go. It's nice to see some inspiration in a series every once in a while. Just look at The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. However, Pokemon Generation VII ain't no BoTW. It's come to the point that I don't think that Gamefreak even knows what they're doing when they try to change things up. I also found Generation III to be disappointing. Perhaps it's just best that Pokemon remains a very conservative series. It seems like that's what Gamefreak does best... This generation is a flop.
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I haven't read all the details of the posts because I haven't finished Moon yet (because real life and because the friend I was playing with is no longer a friend and that made motivation more difficult) but I will go back to it.
I don't have an issue with the way it's structured. I don't mind the change. My favourite gen is 3, that hasn't changed, but I like Sun and moon better than X and Y which for some reason really annoy me when I want to go back to them. I love the reissues of Gen 3 much more.
Don't get the point of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, won't be buying either since they're just upgraded games as far as I can see. My only real bugbear with Moon is that Lilly's pokemon is literally the only thing in the game I actually want to catch. And I can't, because it's Lilly's. That's so annoying. And I think at the end it evolves or something? And that annoys me too. Because I don't want it to. So yeah. That annoys me. Otherwise, not so worried.
Pokemon has let me down in one regard over and over, anyway, and that's by not giving grassies the same respect as some other types. I love my grassies. I still don't know why Mega Vileplume was never a thing.
BUT...
The pokemon centre experience from my trip to Japan made me realise that I am still very susceptible to cute pokemon even when little game things irritate. I don't generally have a problem with Gen 7. But it will never replace gen 3 for me. (And at least Gen 7 is better than Gen 5, which I literally hate almost everything about, except for the ice cream and the bug grassies...)
I am still hoping they'll rework Gen 4 as this is literally the only pokemon generation I've never yet played. I have Pearl or Diamond at home, but I was keeping it to play with aforementioned friend who is no longer a friend and then gen 6 came out and so I never got to it...so that's my hope for the future...
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I'm still playing Pokemon Ultra Sun. If anyone needs Pokemon please let me know.
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You pretty much said all the problems I've had with these games, too. I haven't played UltraSun/UltraMoon (don't generally go for the sequel games) and tbh I haven't even finished Moon yet (I got... about halfway through, I think? I forget where I got up to.. the last thing I remember doing in the game is catching a Phantump).. I had to put it down for a bit since I had other stuff to do and I disliked it so much I haven't gotten round to picking it back up again.
I don't play these games for the stories tbh (I mean, I do pay attention to the stories and if I enjoy them then that's great, but it's not what specifically attracts me to the Pokemon games, if that makes sense) so I could overlook the lackluster story, but honestly I'm not a fan of the complete overhaul in the gameplay, either.. it just seems so unnecessary, tbh :/ That coupled with the excessive handholding (I swear it's like 50% handholding and 50% cutscenes) just put me right off. And there's barely any new Pokemon! :( I wasn't really impressed by the Alola forms either, some of them are cute but overall I would rather have totally new Pokemon instead of new versions of old ones.. also not a fan of how much G1 shilling there is in this gen. I get it, Kanto's great, but this is a NEW game, dangit! XD If I wanted gen 1 I'd play that instead, you know?
I was disappointed by the fact that it's impossible to trade between earlier versions and Sun/Moon, too.. a friend gave me a shiny Buneary a while before they came out and I'd been hoping to trade him up to Moon and use him there, but nope. :( That wasn't too disappointing until I fired up the game and found out just how few new Pokemon there actually were.. and honestly I was not too impressed with most of the new Pokemon either, especially not the Ultra Beasts (wth even are those things?!?).
Agree w/ you about Z-Moves, too - I'm not a fan of these silly gimmicks (not a fan of Mega Evolution, either - I like SOME of the forms like Mega Gardevoir and Lopunny, but I'd never use it in-game). Z-Moves are just silly, lol.
Taffeta - I'm waiting for a gen 4 remake, too :) I'd love to revisit Sinnoh.
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I have Pokemon Bank and Transporter, so I could just port them from my other games. They don't register in the PokeDex, but they're there. Actually, I need to renew my subscription pretty soon.
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@Carrehz. Gen 4 is the only one I've not played.
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I have Pokemon Bank and Transporter, so I could just port them from my other games. They don't register in the PokeDex, but they're there. Actually, I need to renew my subscription pretty soon.
Hey Al, which starter did you go with out of curiosity?
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I have Pokemon Bank and Transporter, so I could just port them from my other games. They don't register in the PokeDex, but they're there. Actually, I need to renew my subscription pretty soon.
Hey Al, which starter did you go with out of curiosity?
Popplio.
Speaking of starters, why did you make a Pokemon based on Zangief, Game Freak? Are you really that desperate for ideas?
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I have Pokemon Bank and Transporter, so I could just port them from my other games. They don't register in the PokeDex, but they're there. Actually, I need to renew my subscription pretty soon.
Hey Al, which starter did you go with out of curiosity?
Popplio.
Speaking of starters, why did you make a Pokemon based on Zangief, Game Freak? Are you really that desperate for ideas?
Ahh yes. The not Fire/Fighting type. XD. That's a great name for him btw. My daughter chose Popplio too. I decided on Rowlet. Boyfriend went with Litten.
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The evolved form of Litten reminded me of the Frosties tiger. O.O. I always start with fire types but seriously O.o. Gen 7 is the first time I haven't had a set team and have just swapped in and out.
I am in love with white Vulpix though, to the point that I brought one all the way back from Hiroshima Pokemon Centre (bear in mind I went to Hiroshima, then further South to Shimonoseki, then back to Kyoto and I only had one backpack). And I then later bought another different one in Kyoto's pokemon centre. I guess I can live with the whole of Gen 7 just for white Vulpix and icy Ninetales. Seriously. I'm that shallow.
Ralts and her evolutions and Oddish and her evolutions are my two favourite pokemon groups. A game in which there is no wild ralts or oddish is already on a loser with me. Although I admit I don't know for sure they're not there, but it doesn't seem like it.
(And now you all understand my love for Gen 3 :D)
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I adore R/S/E. They had some good starters, a charming region and some fantastic Pokemon. I love Treecko, Raltz and Tropius.
I can never decide what my favorite game is though. Kinda hard to when they're all samey. Perhaps Crystal or Sapphire?
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The evolved form of Litten reminded me of the Frosties tiger. O.O. I always start with fire types but seriously O.o. Gen 7 is the first time I haven't had a set team and have just swapped in and out.
I am in love with white Vulpix though, to the point that I brought one all the way back from Hiroshima Pokemon Centre (bear in mind I went to Hiroshima, then further South to Shimonoseki, then back to Kyoto and I only had one backpack). And I then later bought another different one in Kyoto's pokemon centre. I guess I can live with the whole of Gen 7 just for white Vulpix and icy Ninetales. Seriously. I'm that shallow.
Ralts and her evolutions and Oddish and her evolutions are my two favourite pokemon groups. A game in which there is no wild ralts or oddish is already on a loser with me. Although I admit I don't know for sure they're not there, but it doesn't seem like it.
(And now you all understand my love for Gen 3 :D)
They're not in the Alola region, I know that. Which is odd considering the Oddish line is meant for the tropics.
And I do like the ice-type Vulpix variant. It's really the only Alola form I like out of the group (what they did to Diglett/Dugtrio is criminal). I would actually like it if they brought back the season system of Black and White and have fire Vulpix appear in spring and summer and ice Vulpix appear in fall and winter.
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The evolved form of Litten reminded me of the Frosties tiger. O.O. I always start with fire types but seriously O.o. Gen 7 is the first time I haven't had a set team and have just swapped in and out.
I am in love with white Vulpix though, to the point that I brought one all the way back from Hiroshima Pokemon Centre (bear in mind I went to Hiroshima, then further South to Shimonoseki, then back to Kyoto and I only had one backpack). And I then later bought another different one in Kyoto's pokemon centre. I guess I can live with the whole of Gen 7 just for white Vulpix and icy Ninetales. Seriously. I'm that shallow.
Ralts and her evolutions and Oddish and her evolutions are my two favourite pokemon groups. A game in which there is no wild ralts or oddish is already on a loser with me. Although I admit I don't know for sure they're not there, but it doesn't seem like it.
(And now you all understand my love for Gen 3 :D)
They're not in the Alola region, I know that. Which is odd considering the Oddish line is meant for the tropics.
And I do like the ice-type Vulpix variant. It's really the only Alola form I like out of the group (what they did to Diglett/Dugtrio is criminal). I would actually like it if they brought back the season system of Black and White and have fire Vulpix appear in spring and summer and ice Vulpix appear in fall and winter.
I did pick up a plush Oddish and a ditto-faced Gloom in the Pokemon Centres of Tokyo and Kyoto respectively, but I was sad not to find anything for Ralts/Kirlia/Gardevoir/Gallade except the last few remenants of the whatever you call them, the ones that are like little sleeping beanies on their stomach. I have a sleeping Gardevoir but that was all.
Ralts should be in every game as standard. Oddish too. I am not at all biased. :)
I seem to remember there are a few not too bad grassies in Alola though. I haven't played for ages mind you, and my game is at home I think :/ I can;t see it here.
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Thank you! I am right there with you. I have been feeling the exact same about these new games. I just started Leaf Green again myself, not even botherong to finish US. Literally 90% of these games are identical to Sun/Moon, and as a fan of 20 years, it really sucks to be so didapointed in a video game you really love. I feel sort of cheated out of a seqel we were sort of led to believe we were getting... :|
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I'm not happy that the Pokemon games are going to be on Sitch, after all people are still having problems with their switch. Why can't Nintendo put the games on both the 3DS and Switch? That way they would make more money than Sony and Microsoft who are bring out new play stations and X boxes.
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I'm not happy that the Pokemon games are going to be on Sitch, after all people are still having problems with their switch. Why can't Nintendo put the games on both the 3DS and Switch? That way they would make more money than Sony and Microsoft who are bring out new play stations and X boxes.
The Switch has sold very well, though. It would be foolish of Nintendo/GameFreak to not move on it.
There is a massive difference in power in between the 3DS and the Switch. I, for one, don't want to see Pokemon's entry to the console be held back by also being on a much weaker portable. Seeing that happen with Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS already kind of peeved me. It would be worse with Pokemon. GameFreak does not need any more excuses to hold back their games from technological progress.