What's the correct thing to do in this situation?

[moodymand]

Before I go ahead I'll point out this has not happened, I just want to check what the protocol would be if it did.

I've been selling ponies on Arena for the past couple of months - mostly higher-value ones as I'm selling off my Nirvana collection. A lot of them have gone/are going overseas. I offer shipping options to cover the value of the ponies (usually International Signed For and Airsure). If somebody requests the ponies be sent via standard airmail, for whatever reason, and I agree - making sure that they know the package will only be covered for up to £20 if sent via airmail... If something should happen to that parcel, eg it goes missing or burns to ashes lol... I will only be refunded a maximum of £20. If the buyer paid more than that for the ponies, is it down to me to refund in full even if I'm consequently left out of pocket, or is it the buyer's risk and they take the hit?

Obviously I'm talking *not much* over £20. If the package was worth say £100 and the buyer asked for airmail shipping I would probably strongly and at length try to persuade them otherwise!

I'm just curious as to what the done thing is in that kind of situation.  I would imagine it would be buyer's loss...?

[kitkatvintage]

I think that if the buyer has a choice between expensive shipping with more insurance & cheaper shipping with little or no insurance, the loss is on the buyer if they choose the cheaper option.

I have both bought & sold a lot of high value ponies over the years. There have been times where I (as the buyer) have chose the cheaper shipping. If something were to happen, I understand that I took that risk & would not expect the seller to lose money over my choice of shipping.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Ebay/Paypal would make you refund the buyer the entire value of the purchase if there is no insurance on it, should it be lost.

[moodymand]

kitkatvintage - this is what I thought too
lovesbabysquirmy - I would have expected that would be the case with an ebay transaction. I am thinking of Arena/private sales though

[Sunshine]

Ebay/Paypal would make you refund the buyer the entire value of the purchase if there is no insurance on it, should it be lost.

Yeah, even though "morally" it seems like it was their fault for not covering their item fully, it seems the "powers that be" at eBay and Paypal will make you refund it all, Squirmy's got it, I just wanted to sound helpful, LMAO

I think on the Arena it would be between you and the buyer to work that out... I've seen things go both ways, I've seen buyers take partial refunds, buyer want a full refund, buyers not asking for anything if a package was lost and they didn't request insurance, so I think that's harder to say....

[pyrodarknessanny]

if the buyer is well informed of the risks, and  still chose the cheaper shipping with out  insurance / less insurance .

than  you should not be obligated to refund them anything.  as they were well aware of the possibility's of lost/missing or damages.

[kitkatvintage]

If it were an Arena transaction & a buyer chose a cheaper shipping option, then opened a Paypal case against a seller, I would hope the seller would report them in Trader Support. I would certainly not want to sell to a buyer who decided to take a risk, then blamed the seller for their loss.

There is a difference between eBay transactions & the Arena, and that difference is trust. In a close-knit community, buyers should take responsibly for their choices, regardless of what eBay or Paypal would decide.

[nhal039]

I think that if the buyer has a choice between expensive shipping with more insurance & cheaper shipping with little or no insurance, the loss is on the buyer if they choose the cheaper option.

I have both bought & sold a lot of high value ponies over the years. There have been times where I (as the buyer) have chose the cheaper shipping. If something were to happen, I understand that I took that risk & would not expect the seller to lose money over my choice of shipping.

totally agree with you. I think the buyer needs to take the loss if they don't pay extra for postage/ insurance

[Thunderwing]

I give my buyers two options:
1/ Cheap shipping with no insurance or tracking or duty fees BUT they have to pay with the 'gift' option.
2/ Expensive shipping with tracking/signature/insurance and potential customs fees and then they can pay with the purchase option.

I won't risk it. I've offered buyers cheap shipping with the understanding that any problems are their loss - and they filed a claim anyway. So. I cover my own butt first.

[ponylady]

Yeah, even though "morally" it seems like it was their fault for not covering their item fully, it seems the "powers that be" at eBay and Paypal will make you refund it all, Squirmy's got it, I just wanted to sound helpful, LMAO
....

Not sure what is funny about that but I will try and see the humor 

We are tight knit community of collectors, plain and simple. The Arena does not have strict rules regarding selling here, we are not the pony police. Yes, we try and keep everyone safe, mediate when we have to and offer sound advice. The point is that HERE it your responsibility, as not only a seller but as a buyer to cover your bases.

So my sound advice here is do your homework and make sure you are covered no matter where you are sending items. The Arena is not responsible for sales/ trades etc. that happen here.

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,283447.0.html

[Sunshine]

Yeah, even though "morally" it seems like it was their fault for not covering their item fully, it seems the "powers that be" at eBay and Paypal will make you refund it all, Squirmy's got it, I just wanted to sound helpful, LMAO
....

Not sure what is funny about that but I will try and see the humor 

Uhhh the fact that I just ended up saying the same thing Squirmy said, that's what was "humorous"...  I wasn't being helpful when I added that "same" info.

Edit: I left out my emote - this seems like a far more serious statement than I intended - so, ^^^

[moodymand]

Ok, thanks for the opinions and advice everyone! Much appreciated. I am on the same wavelength as most of you on this topic I think!

[Teddy]

Yeah, transactions here are very different from places like ebay. I have purchased higher-priced items through Arena members before and chose the cheapest (least protected) mode of shipping because I'm...well, cheap. lol! In those cases I would not hold the seller responsible at all if the package were lost or damaged. The choice to go cheap was mine and I would take full responsibility.

[Ringlets]

So my sound advice here is do your homework and make sure you are covered no matter where you are sending items. The Arena is not responsible for sales/ trades etc. that happen here.

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,283447.0.html

*agrees with Ponylady*
TBH it varies from transaction to transaction. WHile some buyers would acknowledge that they took the risk themselves by asking for the cheap option, and would  take the loss, not everyone would. If a buyer chooses a cheaper option and the pony goes MIA there is still a very good chance that they will still file a claim should a refund/replacement not be offered by the seller.  Thats how it works on ebay - I know we're not like ebay, but no-one likes to be out of money/pony and you'll still see it happening here, even if the buyer purposefully chose the cheap option knowing the risks.  As a seller always keep your proof of postage - to prove you did post the item (which will also help should a thread be posted in TS) and also in the UK incase you need to make a claim at the PO and get your money back from them.
 I've known some transactions where a cheaper option was used to send the pony, it went MIA, the seller had proof of postage , and the seller and buyer went half and half - so no-one totally lost out. If the seller cannot provide proof of postage then there is a bigger chance that the buyer will open a case (and you cant really blame them since you have to be wary of scammers, even in a close knit community like ours )  If the pony is  not worth much more than the £20 its covered for then its not such a risk.  (What a pain BTW about it only being £20 now! in the UK we were covered up to £46 until this year! :ugh! )
  Check up on your potential buyer first - what is their feedback like? have they been long in the community etc? Are there any TS threads about them?    If you think it might be risky to send them a pony using the cheap option, then only offer  insured/tracked shipping should you still want to sell to them.

[moodymand]

Ringlets - I always make sure to get proof of postage... got a big stack of those to my left here... LOL!

Also, yes, I know £46 was a weird number but now that it's only covered up to £20 it's a pain in the bum. I'm sure it puts off overseas buyers now that the threshold has come down! :/